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Just need clarification about the Outer Gods and the Multiverse. If I'm reading it correctly the Outer Gods/Great Old Ones are "those that came before" mentioned in the Windsong Testaments and that Pharasma and the Astral Plane serve as a barrier to keep them from reaching the outer spheres and corrupting the cycle of souls.

James Jacobs wrote:
Gorelka wrote:

Also-also, any info about secret mythic source of Xandergul?

We have only this: "In -6448 AR, he secretly gained a divine source, becoming the demigod known as the Peacock Spirit."

He became mythic when he became the Peacock Spirit, and he became the Peacock Spirit when he became mythic. This is an intentionally "chicken and the egg" situation where both things enable the other, can't exist before the other, and yet do exist. That's part of they mythic power of it; a paradox that yet exists.

And I take it Alaznist gained her mythic ascension my making her pact with Yamasoth.

James Jacobs wrote:
Yqatuba wrote:
We know the Belimarius is still out there and her city-state is on Golarion now, and also she and Sorshen are enemies. Will we get another AP or something about the fight between them? Also is it possible Sorshen will go all the way and become CG eventually?

Is that something folks would be interested in? There's a perception that we've done enough with the Runelords storyline... if that's not the case, let us know!

In any event, while we don't have current plans for them involving another Adventure Path, they do get a few pages in Lost Omens Legends, and there'll be a little bit more about them in the upcoming Absalom book.

I know I'm curious to see what kind of socio-political impact Sorshen's return will have on the other inner sea nations. A mythic spellcasting npc with a +41 bonus to Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate is a world changing level event waiting to happen.

So in a few of the supplements and adventures they have npc's with 2 class grafts in their write ups, but I can't find any rules for if I wanna make my own dual class npcs? Can anyone tell me where I can find said rules?

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I really enjoyed reading this and can't wait to play it out. The only thing I wished they'd have flushed out is

the geopolitical impact of Sorshen declaring herself queen of New Thassilon. I'd be really interested in reading about how Cheliax, Andoran, Taldor, etc would react to Sorshen and this new kingdom. I'd really like to see just how she got Magnimar and Korvosa on board

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Does anyone know if they plan on listing stats for Sorshen, Zutha, and Xanderghul at their full power? Maybe in the continuing the campaign section in the last adventure path.

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Evan Riggs wrote:
Tangent101 wrote:

I mean, I'd buy them. I suspect a lot of folk would. But you could always do a Kickstarter or the like on that to gauge preorders and how much of these should be printed and adapted to 2nd Edition.
i hope the people at do a suitable Maptools framework for pathfinder 2.0 or im out cause the bestiary is to much of a hassle for me as a DM. i dont understand the removal of the attributes, didnt like it in Starfinder either.

I think it's a little to early to say that Sorshen is "redeemed"

the background info from the Runelord Legacy article says that she's more cautious and that her cruelty has softened. It does not say that she's all butterflys and rainbows. I'm sure she's still a ruthless machiavellian level schemer and political opportunist.

Did they ever officially list what Sorshen's alignment were at the Time of Earthfall? Most home brew stats I've seen list her as being Chaotic Evil. I ask because....

it looks like she's Lawful Neutral from the Runelord's Legacy article. Wanting to turn Varisia into a New Thassilon that exists peacefully with it's neighboring countries is very Lawful Neutral sounding. I guess 10,000 years of silent reflection will do that

Given the secretive nature of it's religious ceremonies and Pathfinder's love of all things cosmic horror, I believe that the "Peacock Spirit" is one of Nyarlahotep's many masks. I also believe that Xanderghul was the only one to know this fact and that the Crawling Chaos granted him his Mythic power.

Anyone else have any theories?

Were the developers trying to invoke the survival horror genre because this was very similar to The Evil Within with a touch of Resident Evil.

I loved it.

Chaosium's Delta Green pen and paper rpg is the best source for info on Hastur/The King in Yellow.

Hastur is a cosmic supernatural force of entropy and decay. Some Mythos scholar's believe that it's an Outer God like Azathoth.

The King in Yellow is it's avatar. It can either be called to a location by using the yellow sign, or if the location/city reachs a certain point of moral decadence and decay the King in Yellow will take it and make it a part of Carcosa.

My knee jerk reaction to the old god in the lake was Glaaki. But after reading about Xhamen-Dor I have to go with him.

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I'm super excited about Strange Aeons because I'm a big fan of Call of Cthulhu.

No CoC adventure can ever be complete without an appearance of the Crawling Chaos.

Will we get to see Nyarlahotep in the adventure path (or at least one of his many "masks") and/or an article about his "faith" and his relationship with the other deities of Golarian. Similar to what you've done with the various Demon Lords and Archdevils?

Jatembe's skills have been bothering me because they are way to high for his level. When you subtract all his ability score modifiers and class skill modifiers, his skills look like this:

Bluff +24, Diplomacy +24, Fly +21, Handle Animal +24, Heal +21, Intimidate +24, Knowledge (arcana, dungeoneering, geography, history, nature, planes, religion) +21, Perception +21, Perform (oratory) +24, Sense Motive +22, Spellcraft +21, Stealth +2, Survival +21, Use Magic Device +24

That's 420 skill points, plus it's way more skill points then what his Hit Die allow.

I don't know if Dave has ever answered the question before, but I've always wondered where the Jeggare family wealth comes from. Varian mentions owning vineyards, and I assume they started out as traditional land owning aristocracy, but were they able to diversify their investments into other ventures?

Berselius wrote:
secure an alliance with Old-Mage Jatembe and his the Ten Magic Warriors,

Where has the old rascal been hiding?

Skeld wrote:
samuraixsithlord wrote:
In my homebrew stats Xanderghul became mythic through his devotion to the Peacock Spirit...

There's a popular theory that Xanderghul IS the Peacock Spirit.


Nah the Peacock Spirit is one of Nyarlathotep's masks. The Crawling Chaos was behind the corruption of Xin's virtues and Xanderghul is his patsy.

Sub-Creator wrote:

I think you could get away with an awesome AP involving either of those characters with the granting of maybe 2-3 tiers only.

In my homebrew stats Xanderghul became mythic through his devotion to the Peacock Spirit and Sorshen became mythic from bathing the the Everdawn Pool) and their mythic potential depends on these variables to continue.

One of my ideas is the characters secretly having to undergo a quest to destroy the sources of their mythic power before they even have a chance to defeat them.

Xanderghul's font of Mythic power is an ethereal temple dedicated to the Peacock Spirit and located withing the dimension of dreams. The Peacock Spirit is just another mask of Nyarlahotep and the PC's must bargain with the Crawling Chaos before he'll strip Xanderghul of his mythic power.

Sorshen's mythic power is derived from the Everdawn Pool and she must bath in it once every new moon to retain her beauty and power.

I'd like to see them complete the trilogy that they started with RotRL and SS. A mythic level adventure in which the remaining Runelords awaken from their sleep and the adventurers have to stop them from conquering the inner sea.

Carrion Crown is my favorite by far. Ravenloft and Call of Cthulhu were the first two RPGs I ever played so I loved the gothic horror setting.

Varian is a Sorcerer with the Sage bloodline.

I know everyone likes to stat him a an Arcanist but He's never shown the ability to memorize and prepare spells. His "wizardry" is just his practice of creating Riffle Scrolls which are just another version of traditional scrolls.

Stat wise I see him as something like Fighter (learned Duelist) 5/Sorcerer 8/Pathfinder Savant 3/Monk (Weapon Adept) 2

Dave Gross wrote:
He's officially old for a half-elf, but a certain event near the end of Master of Devils puts an asterisk beside his age category.

yeah he's in his 90's i believe which is old for a half-elf. I figured 18 18 cl was just about right for both of them since they did survive the worldwound. Varian is a pure sorcerer with the arcane (sage) bloodline. Brawler fit radovan pretty well since post-master of devils he doesn't have access to any ki abilities.

I once stated up Varian and Radovan post King of Chaos.

Varian was something like

LG male old half-elf fighter 5/sorcerer 8/arcane savant 3/monk (weapon adept) 2

and Radovan

CG male tiefling rogue 12/brawler 6.

So I have a question for Dave Gross. I seem to recall Varian mentioning his desire to die in mutual combat with his criminal nemesis in Queen of Thorns. Later on in King of Chaos he mentions how he believes that someone in the pathfinder society allowed the vampire keisya access to the lacuna codex. Was that a hint that Varian will soon be matching wits with his "Moriarty" soon?

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A Steampunk themed AP set in Alkenstar and the Mana Wastes would be awesome.

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There are two Mythic level AP's I'd love to see:

1. The final chapter of the Runelords "trilogy" of RotRL and SS. A mythic level adventure in which the characters have to combat the remaining newly revived Runelords. We finally get to fight Sorshen, Xanderghul, Belimarius, Zutha, and Alaznist.

2. A Mythic Distant Worlds AP in which various interstellar characters have to band together to defeat a full scale invasion of The Dominion of the Black. A real Star Wars inspired adventure path.

Eltacolibre wrote:
Not like it matters what the exact cr number are never going to fight Tar Baphon alone. He is surrounded by liches, vampires, bodaks , raveners etc...fighting in negative energy filled dungeon, good luck.

Get a couple Mythic heroes together and kill him. I think that was kinda the point of having his stats in Mythic Realms.

Tar-Baphon's stats are wrong though. He's got 20 levels plus the gear of a full PC so that's a CR of 20, plus a full 10 mythic ranks so that's +5 to the CR and he's a lich so another +2. He should have a CR of 27.

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Tar-Baphon. Zutha was less powerful than Karzoug...who's way less than Tar-Baphon's CR 26.

So, yeah, that's pretty much official.

I remember Paizo ranking the power rating on the Runelords. Sorshen and Xanderghul were top two Mythic casters. But I think they said that Alaznist and Zutha fluctuated back and forth for the number 3 spot, followed by Karzoug, Belimarius, and finally Krune.

Thanael wrote:
Did you read only the free short stories or the others too ? (I believe the AP journal is availalbe as a pdf short story?)

Only the free ones.

Which one is the more powerful?

So I've re-read all of their novels as well as the short stories. Anyone know if anything new is in the works? Seriously some of my favorite fantasy novels.

I'd love to read a prequel novel about how the two of them met.

Anyone have any clue as to how big Divinity was as in actual measurements?

Generic Villain wrote:
nighttree wrote:
What's the scoop on the DOMINION ???

That's... not an easy answer.

** spoiler omitted **

Hmmmm they seem oddly similar to the Migo. Are they actively opposed to the Outer Gods and Great Old Ones or is it more of a passive agressive hate like the Migo.

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I always make my characters run characters thematically appropriate for the adventure path. My current group is composed of:

An Android Sorcerer with the Nanite bloodline. I've given Androids a homebrew rule that gives them +2 CHA in regards to spells when they take the Nanite Bloodline (Like Tiefling's and the Infernal Bloodline).

A Kellid Barbarian/Fighter who uses an Energy Sword.

A Dwarf Gunslinger who uses plasma pistols.

a Female Human Cleric of Brigh from Alkenstar.

Have they ever released an offical mythic version of the Craft Construct feat?

Neongelion wrote:
I'm perfectly okay with it, though I wish they didn't reveal who they are in the Iron Gods Player's Guide! Now I'm desperately hoping my players don't happen to read that part of the guide...

I kinda wish they would have waited to reveal that the pilots of the Silver Mount were

human until the vary last adventure path.

I mean I wonder if the Technic League knows that

humans piloted the Silver Mount and are keeping it secret or if during the fight with The Dominion of the Black the humans were mutated into monsters.

I was kinda bummed about the fact that the people piloting the silver mount were human. I was hoping for some mysterious race of super aliens.

But if there were humans piloting the Silver Mount wouldn't there be human remains?

and her Dancing Hut is her Tardis!

I posted a Huckster Archetype in an earlier thread and I was wondering if anyone has ever done a Deadlands campaign using Pathfinder.

Deadmanwalking wrote:
samuraixsithlord wrote:

Awesome, but I have a few critiques.

1. Thor shouldn't be considered an Outsider because Asgard is basically another planet and Thor is an Alien. If you're doing the movie version of thor. Comic book version would be an outsider though.

Eh...close enough to Outsiders for government work. They don't fit as any other creature type nearly as well. I'd just redefine Outsiders to include some varieties of extraterrestrials in that world.

Also, this is, to some degree, a 'bringing them into Pathfinder' list, and by those standards he's definitely an Outsider.

samuraixsithlord wrote:
2. Fighter (Archer) with a few levels of Rogue (sniper) work best with Hawkeye. Hawkeye is all about accuracy and trick shots.

Eh...I'll go with you on the Fighter, looking at it, but would be inclined to say he dabbled in Ranger rather than Rogue. Call it Fighter (Archer) 9/Ranger 6 or so.

samuraixsithlord wrote:
3. I''d make Stark's primary class Expert with a level of Gunslinger and a few levels of Sorcerer (Impossible bloodline) so he can make spell trigger items. His Hulk Buster Armor could be an Adamantite Golem with the Construct Armor feature.

I strongly disagree. Look at what he could do in Iron Man 3 with a short visit to Ace Hardware (ie: to pick up spell components). His effects are fluffed as technology, sure...but they can do a whole lot of stuff that's effectively magic. And he's on par with the other Avengers, in some cases even sans suit...which necessitates a PC class.

These are also movie I don't think Pathfinder is really equipped for the varying power levels and capabilities of comic book characters per se. That's what Mutants and Masterminds is for.

Ok I agree that Thor should be a native outsider. Ranger doesn't really work for Hawkeye though. He was always a loner type character so he has no companions and he doesn't show any ability to track. He was definitely using ranged sneak attacks during the battle in avengers.

Haven't seen Iron-Man 3 yet so I'll take your word for it. Stark should have a few levels of expert though. Symbolizing his career as a weapon designer before he built the first Iron-man armor.

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Mythic is...possible, and an excellent replacement for the Advanced Template. But I actually think, of all the Avengers, he's one of the least likely to be Mythic (along with Black Widow and Hawkeye)...he's incredibly badass, no doubt, but I put that down to being, well, like 16th level in a world only slightly higher level than the real one for the most part.

Other Avengers:

Nick Fury: N Middle-aged Human Gunslinger 5/Ninja 10. Lots of tricks up his sleeve but not quite as badass as the actual Avengers, though he does have loads of Charisma and Skill Focus (Bluff).

Thor: CG Asgardian Invulnerable Rager Barbarian 12/Champion 6. Note: Asgardian would be about a CR 6 custom monster (a 6 hit die Outsider with very nice physical stats, especially Strength, a slam attack, and both Natural Armor and DR), many of whom have class levels on top of that. This'd make Thor CR 21, but playable as an 18th level char, which seems right-ish.

Hulk/Bruce Banner: CN/NG Human Beastmorph Vivisectionist Alchemist 10/Master Chymist 4/Barbarian 2/Champion 4. CR 18.

Black Widow: N Human Gunslinger 1 (high guns setting, so this gives her Dex to damage)/Ninja 14. Has the Ninja tricks for Monk unarmed damage progression, Agile Maneuvers an Agile Amulet of Might Fists, and Improved Grapple, among other things.

Hawkeye: NG Human Urban Ranger 15. Think that says it all really.

Iron Man is by far the hardest but probably thematically best built as a CG Human Conjurer 5/Gunslinger 1/Eldritch Knight 9/Archmage 4 in Construct Armor, with Mythic Crafting. CR 17.

More to follow if I have time and inclination...

Awesome, but I have a few critiques.

1. Thor shouldn't be considered an Outsider because Asgard is basically another planet and Thor is an Alien. If you're doing the movie version of thor. Comic book version would be an outsider though.

2. Fighter (Archer) with a few levels of Rogue (sniper) work best with Hawkeye. Hawkeye is all about accuracy and trick shots.

3. I'd make Stark's primary class Expert with a level of Gunslinger and a few levels of Sorcerer (Impossible bloodline) so he can make spell trigger items. His Hulk Buster Armor could be an Adamantite Golem with the Construct Armor feature.

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Having just seen the new Captain America movie...

Steve Rogers CR 17
Advanced Human Monk (Sohei) 2/Paladin (Oath of Vengeance) 4/Ranger 10
NG Medium Humanoid
Init +13; Senses Perception +26,

AC 39, touch 20, flat-footed 33 (+10 Armor, +6 Dex, +3 Deflection, +1 Luck, +2 Natural Armor, +7 Shield)
HP 196 (14d10+2d8+106)
Fort +29, Ref +26, Will +26
Special Defenses Evasion, Lay on Hands (2d6 9/day, Fatigued Mercy), acts during surprise round, divine health, aura of courage,

Spd 30 ft.
Melee shield flurry +28/+23/+18 (2d6+17/19–20) or unarmed flurry +25/+25/+20/+15/+10 (1d6+11)
Ranged thrown shield +26 (2d6+13/19-20)
Special Attacks Favored Enemy (Humanoid (Human) +6, Outsider (Chaotic)+2, Monstrous Humanoid +2), Smite Evil 2/day (+7 to hit, +7 Deflection modifier to AC, +4 damage)

3rd: Instant Enemy
2nd: Barkskin, Perceive Cues,
1st: Feather Step, Lead Blades, Resist Energy,

1st: Bless, Lesser Restoration,

Str 26*, Dex 22*, Con 22*, Int 14, Wis 18*, Cha 24*
BAB +15; CMB +23; CMD 38
Feats Bashing Finish, Combat Expertise, Deadly Aim, Deflect Arrows, Diehard, Endurance, Iron Will, Improved Critical (Shield), Improved Disarm, Improved Initiative, Improved Grapple, Improved Shield Bash, Improved Sunder, Improved Unarmed Strike, Power Attack, Shield Master, Stunning Fist (5/day),
Skills: Acrobatics +30 Climb +12, Diplomacy +27, Disable Device +6, Handle Animal +11, Heal +8, Intimidate +15, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +6, Knowledge (History) +12, Knowledge (Local) +15, Knowledge (Geography) +6, Knowledge (Nature) +8, Knowledge (Nobility) +6, Knowledge (Religion) +6, Linguistics +5, Perception +26, Profession (Soldier) +17, Ride +17, Sense Motive +23, Stealth +25, Survival +10, Swim +12,
Languages Common, Elven, Dwarven, Infernal, Abyssal, Celestial,
Traits A Friend in Every Town, Reactionary, Indomitable Faith,
Drawback Naive
SQ aura of good, detect evil (at will), wild empathy +16, +5 Survival for...

Nice. I'd maybe give him 2 or 3 mythic tiers. Him getting injected with the supersoldier serum unlocks his mythic potential and the subsequent events in CA 1, The Avengers, and CA 2 serving as his trials.

So I finally got around to watching The Second Hobbit movie

Smaug CR 20/MR 3
CE Male Ancient Red Dragon

-Made Smaug an ancient red dragon because of his size. He's listed as being about 18 meters (59 feet) from head to tail which puts him at Gargantuan size.
-He does get a few Mythic Ranks because he is the last great Fire Dragon of the third age, but he wasn't so powerful that Gandalf didn't think he couldn't handle him with a few Dwarves.

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Dreaming Psion wrote:

A few more 8-Bit Theater characters:

Berserker Axinhead- CN male dwarf aristocrat/barbarian with multiple personality disorder

Black Belt: LN male human qingong monk (with most of his qingong monk powers reflecting misunderstandings of reality rather than actual mystical powers)

Fighter McWarrior: CG male human barbarian (invulnerable rager, follows two-weapon fighting feat chain)

Kary, Fiend of Fire- CE female fire-infused marilith

King Steve- CN male middle-aged human aristocrat 2 (Wis is dump stat)

Princess Sara: NE female human aristocrat 1/rogue 7

Red Mage Statcowski: CN male human gestalt magus/cleric built on a 25 point buy (alternate- fighter/wizard with healing domain [rules variant from Unearthed Arcana 3.X]/eldritch knight built on a 25 point buy)

Sarda the Sage: LE male human wizard 20 (that's all you really need)

Thief: NE male elf ninja/shadowdancer (with Leadership and max ranks in Bluff, Diplomacy, Knowledge (local, nobility), Profession: Barrister, Sleight of Hand, and Stealth)

White Mage: NG female human cleric (feats include Bludgeoner, Martial Weapon Proficiency: Earthbreaker, and Power Attack)

No Black Mage :-(

Dreaming Psion wrote:

Most of the main cast from Planescape: Torment (exact levels can vary)

Annah CN female tiefling fighter/thief (fairly obvious, weapon training in light blades, feats include power attack, two-weapon fighting feat chain, weapon finesse, and improved crit/weapon focus/weapon specialization in punching daggers)

Dakkon- LN male githzerai magus (blade-bound magus)

Fall-From-Grace- NG (not LN) female risen/redeemed succubus cleric

Ignus- CN/E male fire-infused human sorcerer (wild-blooded- sage) (Template from the Advanced Bestiary, or here: -creature; going with sorcerer since he's primarily a blaster and being always on fire kinda prevents the use of a spell-book. Include Overland Flight in spells known.)

Morte- CG male unique petitioner fighter (lorewarden)- seems to react more to spells and such more like a living creature than an undead despite being a skull. Also originally taken from the Pillar of Bones in Baator- suggesting his soul had already been "processed" into an outsider.

The Nameless One- male Eternal Creature* human magus/thief (Probably only a few token levels in thief at most, going magus would allow TNO to focus on his reclaiming both his magical might and his fighting skill. Alternatively, wizard/fighter/eldritch knight. *Template from Book of Monster Templates by Rite Publishing.)

Vhailor- LN warforged (former male human?) fighter (Alternatives: Android, awakened animated object, soul-bound mannequin)

by thief you mean rogue right?

Evil Archmage from White Wolf

Voormas, Grand Harvester of Souls
CE Male Venerable Human Sorcerer (Undead) 20/Archmage 10

Maleficent CR 19
CE Female Human Sorcerer (Fey Bloodline) 20
Ability Scores Str 8, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 25

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