| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I figured I would see what people think, about shifting a lot of discussion off this forum and over to the sub-Reddit for Pathfinder Online that already exists - http://www.reddit.com/r/PathfinderOnline
Why? Well, Reddit has a built-in voting mechanism that allows readers to, as a group, downvote to oblivion comments or threads that are deemed inappropriate, off-topic, or just rude.
There seems to be a tendency for a few specific individuals to dominate every discussion, and it sometimes turns a bit negative. Other than flagging posts, there doesn't seem to be much other readers can do?
For instance, if you think my post here is bothersome, you could all downvote it and not have to deal with it anymore. :)
Thoughts?
Well, I'm no spring chicken by any regard - I just happen to like the features that give some degree of power to the community to self-police as it were.
The critical mass of game early adopters are already here since that pool largely consists of PF players or fans who like to use forums. I use the sub-reddit myself but communities largely decide for themselves where they want to go.
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Well, I'm no spring chicken by any regard - I just happen to like the features that give some degree of power to the community to self-police as it were.
Sorry, lynch mobs aren't justice and popularity is fickle. I speak when I feel I have something to say. If you want your voice heard you have to speak up, Doc.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Well, I'm no spring chicken by any regard - I just happen to like the features that give some degree of power to the community to self-police as it were.
I somehow always feel, on Reddit, as if I'm not reading all the comments made. I've no idea whether that's true, but it's a lingering feeling each time I visit.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Secondly Doc I know I have been wrong before. If you said something I disagreed with and I /ignored you, you might then speak the hallelujah Truth with the capital T and I would be none the wiser. Without your disagreeing with me I lose an opportunity to learn and grow.
No, I don't think it helps to just start tuning one another out. If it is my posts troubling you then show me the error of my ways. Please.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I don't mind Reddit at all. I suspect that many readers here use the Favorite button as a substitute for an up vote. I know I often use it that way.
PFO already has this message board, the Alpha forums, a thread on MMORPG.com, and a couple of Subreddits. I honestly don't feel like spreading my attention in too many directions, now that there's a game to play. Currently, I'm following this board, and that's enough for me. If the bulk of the group moves to Reddit, I'll follow, but I feel no need to try to lead the charge.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
@Being - Disagreements are great! Bickering is annoying.
Rather than being forced to wade through posts that IMHO are not constructive at all, alternatively I'd like to be able to take advantage of the community's ability to vote on what is considered additive to the overall conversation.
That's not a "lynch mob", just the community providing some feedback on what it considers relevant.
Whether what that community considers relevant or valuable is intrinsically worthy, is just a reflection of the community itself, and not really an issue of being fickle.
I personally don't see why anyone should enjoy the ability to broadcast their negativity any more than one should enjoy the ability to downvote said negativity into oblivion.
Anyway, this was just a feeler, was curious what folks though about Reddit is all.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
There seems to be a tendency for a few specific individuals to dominate every discussion, and it sometimes turns a bit negative. Other than flagging posts, there doesn't seem to be much other readers can do?
I understand your frustration Doc and sympathise. It has been particularly bad the last couple days. These boards have a certain format, in place long before the PFO subforum, and you just have to adapt to it. The best I can advise is to learn to not read certain posters. You have to learn to skip over them as soon as you see their name and not "cheat". I usually avoid the next couple posts after them as well. It takes a bit of time but eventually becomes 2nd nature. There are some posters here I haven't "heard" in a long time ;)
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
There seems to be a tendency for a few specific individuals to dominate every discussion, and it sometimes turns a bit negative. Other than flagging posts, there doesn't seem to be much other readers can do?I understand your frustration Doc and sympathise. It has been particularly bad the last couple days. These boards have a certain format, in place long before the PFO subforum, and you just have to adapt to it. The best I can advise is to learn to not read certain posters. You have to learn to skip over them as soon as you see their name and not "cheat". I usually avoid the next couple posts after them as well. It takes a bit of time but eventually becomes 2nd nature. There are some posters here I haven't "heard" in a long time ;)
Ditto. There are times I wish for an "ignore" button! On a positive note, the moderators here respond quickly and even-handedly. I'm not sanguine that "mob rule" downvoting would work half so well.
I don't do reddit...or facebook for that matter..or twitter...
I'll stick to the forums..
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
It's tempting to consider the joy of simply turning an annoyance off. I've certainly done my share of /ignore on other boards.
I confess sometimes I feel like I'm tanking the forum, getting a little heal now and then when someone favorites, and some days I seem to go a little berserk or misinterpret and stomp a friend's toe and earn every frown and growl of disapproval. But even then I think maybe I'm keeping the bad guys focused on bringing me down while the rest of the community gets some real work done.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I thought I was the only non-facebooking, non-tweeting dinosaur out there!
Another dinosaur, reporting in! I'm not a complete Luddite, but I've no idea why such a high percentage of the known universe is interested in everyone else knowing what they're thinking and doing at all times.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I confess sometimes I feel like I'm tanking the forum, getting a little heal now and then when someone favorites, and some days I seem to go a little berserk or misinterpret and stomp a friend's toe and earn every frown and growl of disapproval. But even then I think maybe I'm keeping the bad guys focused on bringing me down while the rest of the community gets some real work done.
I'm sorry Being, but what you're describing is part of the problem. It's not any one person's "job" to protect us from viewpoints they don't agree with. Conversations need to be had, GW needs to hear varying opinions. The best ideas will come to the top, but not if thread after thread degenerates into the same tired conflicts.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Reddit has a built-in voting mechanism that allows readers to, as a group, downvote to oblivion comments or threads that are deemed inappropriate, off-topic, or just rude.
Never seen this, all I've seen is people downvoting when they dislike, disagree, or just don't have sense of humour. Voting feature is good only against trolling and bm, which we do not have here. As a downside, it drives away any originality. I've had a chance to compare normal forums and subreddit of the same game - the difference was huge, the subreddit was basically just not worth reading.
|
CEO, Goblinworks
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'd be happy to spend more time interacting with the community on reddit, tbh. The exposure would be great. Incubating here on the paizo.com forums has been wonderful but we need to start to push out beyond the group of people who are already deeply vested in Pathfinder and talk to MMO enthusiasts in general.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I agree with that sentiment.
Speaking personally, I never heard of the Pathfinder RPG before I found out about Pathfinder Online. Most of the people I would recommend the game too have never played it either, much less T.T. role playing.
I was mainly on the lookout for a sandbox MMORPG, and was deeply disappointed with the faux sandiboxiness of ArcheAge.
Either way, even though a lot of people who spent a lot of time here don't seem interested in Reddit - which is totally fine - I'm probably going try to split my reading time on both. Too each their own. :D
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I'd be happy to spend more time interacting with the community on reddit, tbh. The exposure would be great. Incubating here on the paizo.com forums has been wonderful but we need to start to push out beyond the group of people who are already deeply vested in Pathfinder and talk to MMO enthusiasts in general.
That exposure is just as likely to be negative and I think Reddit will be less restrained than what you have here.
"Beware what you wish for, you just might get it", springs to mind.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I'd be happy to spend more time interacting with the community on reddit, tbh. The exposure would be great. Incubating here on the paizo.com forums has been wonderful but we need to start to push out beyond the group of people who are already deeply vested in Pathfinder and talk to MMO enthusiasts in general.That exposure is just as likely to be negative and I think Reddit will be less restrained than what you have here.
"Beware what you wish for, you just might get it", springs to mind.
I agree, exposure is great but reddit probably isn't where you want to get it, at least at this point. When EE is in full swing, and OE is on the horizon, I could see reddit being more useful (in a very fringe-type of way).
Additionally, I would be hesitant to further fracture up the discussions at this stage- it would seem to counter-productive to both the devs and us to have multiple discussion areas to keep tabs on.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I don't do reddit...or facebook for that matter..or twitter...
I'll stick to the forums..
<hug>
I thought I was the only non-facebooking, non-tweeting dinosaur out there!
Being a dinosaur isn't all that bad, especially if you're a T-Rex. If Twitter and Facebook disappeared tomorrow, I'd neither know nor care...
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I confess sometimes I feel like I'm tanking the forum, getting a little heal now and then when someone favorites, and some days I seem to go a little berserk or misinterpret and stomp a friend's toe and earn every frown and growl of disapproval. But even then I think maybe I'm keeping the bad guys focused on bringing me down while the rest of the community gets some real work done.I'm sorry Being, but what you're describing is part of the problem. It's not any one person's "job" to protect us from viewpoints they don't agree with. Conversations need to be had, GW needs to hear varying opinions. The best ideas will come to the top, but not if thread after thread degenerates into the same tired conflicts.
I'm a little better than you seem to be making out that I am. I don't think it is my job to defend you at all, I think it is my duty to speak up when I disagree, and it is not often that simply saying I disagree is acceptable. If you disagree with someone's idea and say so you should have the courtesy of explaining why. Sometimes that discussion grows.
Repetition usually happens when different people at different times say the same or similar things. Then there are the old regulars who've disagreed with me in the past.|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I agree with that sentiment.
Speaking personally, I never heard of the Pathfinder RPG before I found out about Pathfinder Online. Most of the people I would recommend the game too have never played it either, much less T.T. role playing.
I was mainly on the lookout for a sandbox MMORPG, and was deeply disappointed with the faux sandiboxiness of ArcheAge.
Either way, even though a lot of people who spent a lot of time here don't seem interested in Reddit - which is totally fine - I'm probably going try to split my reading time on both. Too each their own. :D
Generally the system I use to mention PFO:-
1. Look for suitable/specific tags:-
- Sandbox mmorpg
- EVE-like systems eg: Single shard, territory control, open world pvp, emphasis on economy, player run/formed groups
- Strong/good/mature community-focus
- RPG/RP deep lore pedigree
- Insightful remarks and comments on mmorpg design
2. Avoid specific tags:-
- Actiony-combat (non tab-target)
- PvE focus (quests)
- awesome graphics
- LF biggest mmorpg atm
- F2P
- Have played x,y,z themeparks, LF...
- LF End-game raids
- specific features such as uber gear, housing
- In general when the impression is that someone does not know what they want.
3. Provide a range of suggestions including PFO amongst others eg Repopulation, Camelot Unchained (RvR), SC, Shards, Darkfall, EVE ie a cluster of Sandbox options
4. Highlight specific features as per the poster that align with PFO and link to the relevant blog.
5. Never ever hype PFO, merely suggest, offer as a possible match out of a range.
6. Balance as well as match by referring to: reduced feature set, sub price, graphics being poorer than other mmorpgs
=
Generally find most people have a low awareness about the mmorpg genre or at least a low tolerance threshold to sub-par graphics and high content. Those that by-pass this often talk about SWG, UO, EVE, Darkfall, Mortal Online and then the conversation can often be productive.
I think a lot of comments will hit a brick-wall concerning "poor graphics" and "rip-off alpha packages/marketing of false promises" in contrast to the holy grail of the next big release. Focused/targeted communication of PFO is best or else not mention it as hype is hype.
Imo word of mouth from player groups who control settlements and have their heraldry banners and flags, motifs/mottos and numerous roles for recruiting in contention with other such groups would be highly effective at attracting attention if not further interest which would it seems to me depend on story generation of emergent gameplay to get player word of mouth raving.
=
Random thought:-
I'd find it quite funny if the New Player Experience was a journey to get to the River Kingdoms in the first place with an opportunity for some other players to help them at different intervals?
Some new players might fail a few times and seek "help" in their journey. Perhaps some players lend a steed and some guards etc? Or a map or some other useful thing. Or leave messages about where to find their settlement. Maybe an Inn or two along the way to provide food and rest and repairs etc?
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I don't do reddit...or facebook for that matter..or twitter...
I'll stick to the forums..
<hug>
I thought I was the only non-facebooking, non-tweeting dinosaur out there!
Grrarrarr. Roar! (Yet another non-Facebook, non-Twitter dinosaur reporting in.)
I don't mind Reddit, though. Maybe I'm a very late Cretaceous dinosaur.
In this case, I just don't want to add Reddit on top of this message board, the Alpha forum, the MMORPG.com forum, Ideascale, and most importantly, the game itself.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I still do not understand why they do not open up the Goblinworks forums, add a ton of (standard) utility, and make sure that Goblinworks becomes the portal for anything PFO. I understand that they do not want the forums to be flooded with negativity by people who do not get the EE and Crowdforging angle, but I think they should take the bad with the good, and simply moderate heavily.
I absolutely avoid any generic MMO-or game-portals, I just do not get the community feel of those, and I have zero connection with 98% of the people there.
Still not sure why the Goblinworks forums need to be crowdforged, can't they just use a standard package and then decide to enable or disable features that do not seem opportune at this point in time?
Simple stuff like being able to see who posted last in a thread, who is the OP, see unread posts in a thread, /hide thread, /ignore, being able to show pictures (actual pictures, not just a link to one, I have some great screenshots)and a ton more.
You could still have a "member only" section, that requires you to have bought a game-package.
This game needs more visability: right now when people come to the Goblinworks website, they click "forum", then get a page (without a forum) with an explanation that there are currently only alpha forums that they can not access (with a barely visable link btw), and the message that they can go to the Paizo forums. (not a fan of the Paizo forums too, barebone functionality, messy tree-structure and headings, way too many subforums, had to resort to a member-made ignore fucntion and change to Mozzilla in order to use it)
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
They have a small team and diverting resources toward forums from game is not at the top of the priority list.
When the game needs more visibility is when it is at-or-near mvp. If only two of every ten that check it out are retained today, and they can retain three or four out of ten in a few weeks, then that is a better time to worry about visibility.
My main issue with the paizo forums specifically, is performance. The last couple of days either it or the paizo.com site has been very slow or just won't load.
That's been bothering me for the last couple of days, too, but has not been typical for the 5 months I've been participating.
Paizo recently started having the Great Golem Sale; there was a bit of thread discussing the recent forum performance issues here.
Looks like the sale runs thru November 2nd, 2014, though maybe traffic will calm down a bit.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Great Golem Sale
Thanks, Wyntr. My performance tanked also through much of the last couple days; I had no idea the Golem Sale was so popular, but I'm glad it is!
Anything that helps Paizo also indirectly--or perhaps not indirectly--helps Goblinworks, and thus us.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
That's been bothering me for the last couple of days, too, but has not been typical for the 5 months I've been participating.Paizo recently started having the Great Golem Sale; there was a bit of thread discussing the recent forum performance issues here.
Looks like the sale runs thru November 2nd, 2014, though maybe traffic will calm down a bit.
I suspected that might be it, but I didn't realize it was this serious. I guess I got lucky; my order completed on the first try.
I figured I would see what people think, about shifting a lot of discussion off this forum and over to the sub-Reddit for Pathfinder Online that already exists - http://www.reddit.com/r/PathfinderOnline
Why? Well, Reddit has a built-in voting mechanism that allows readers to, as a group, downvote to oblivion comments or threads that are deemed inappropriate, off-topic, or just rude.
There seems to be a tendency for a few specific individuals to dominate every discussion, and it sometimes turns a bit negative. Other than flagging posts, there doesn't seem to be much other readers can do?
For instance, if you think my post here is bothersome, you could all downvote it and not have to deal with it anymore. :)
Thoughts?
I dunno.
The issue I have is I think that the community is skewed. There are still some that have supreme faith in the devs. I wonder if maybe that is the larger group. They are just like OH ANOTHER GREAT IDEA!
But then there are people who are "negative." I haven't seen one negative thread on this whole forum that I felt didn't have merit. Sometimes people got into arguments, but that's their own thing.
I don't think anyone is dominating anything. Some people post more haha. What would happen if the community hated you and downvoted everything you said?
I want the discussion to stay here because I think people need to know what's up about this game. I came here. I researched. It seemed like the overall tone back then was much more positive. I think if the community is wavering or upset, it should be noted so that the customers, who funded this project, can be pleased.
Suppression, to me, is not a good thing. I personally would never downvote someone's post.