oldsaxhleel's page

VRMH wrote:

So... what about Werewolves? That translates as Man-Wolf.

Well, consider that the other term is Lycanthrope. With lycan meaning wolf and thrope meaning human. Thus in the above case we can conclude that that is used as a gender neutral term for human. Rather the gender neutral use of man is best not used or a harmless abbreviation is a separate debate.

to note; the Were prefix of werewolf has the same root as Wereman(as once males were referred to as weremen and females were referred to as wyfmen), so, to clarify/support VRMH, werewolf is definitively male.

[. . .]

One thing most GMs forget is terrain and environment. I guess that's two things, but I'm thinking of them as the same: challenges that make an encounter more difficult than it should be. Killing a dozen orcs isn't too hard for a 5th level group. Killing them while the PCs are climbing a tall cliff in the rain and the orcs are shooting at them from cover/concealment on the opposite cliff, well, that's a whole new problem (bonus points because they still have the same CR so they only give the same XP and loot as any other dozen orcs, but the difficulty of the fight is much harder - more bonus points if you raise the CR because of the increased challenge, then give them revised better loot to mach their new CR, and that loot all takes the form of magic arrows or other useful gear to make them kill the PCs more easily - how about throwing shurikens to sever the PCs' ropes...).

What he said.

Tucker's the hell out of those Kobolds.

oldsaxhleel wrote:

Dpr / ( (level * 8) + 24)

Is the KPR formula we used for 3.5. Generally a KPR of .2 or better is the bare minimum of what you want. If you can get .4 without sacrificing your basic defenses (which you can on even an average fighter in PF) you should. Above that is where you start getting into the optimized DPR builds

How did you find this formula? Did you get it from someone else or did random experimentation or something like that?

It's DPR / average HP for a CR appropriate monster. Effectively rounds to kill. I'd link you to the char op page on the WotC Community but all that got flushed.

Dpr / ( (level * 8) + 24)
Is the KPR formula we used for 3.5. Generally a KPR of .2 or better is the bare minimum of what you want. If you can get .4 without sacrificing your basic defenses (which you can on even an average fighter in PF) you should. Above that is where you start getting into the optimized DPR builds

3rd level clerics can't cast Wind Wall (it's a 3rd level spell), and the wizard has no backup plan(at most 2 2nd level spells/day, so Levitate and Protection from Arrows, no invisibility). if he has both Obscuring Mist and Vanish prepared he's left with at most 4 castings of magic missile (2 base from level, 2 from 20 INT, 1 from specialization, 1 from bonded item, -2 from other prep'ed spells) so he can do about 28 damage to the party over the course of 4 rounds, while exhausting all of his combat ability.

2 fighters with tower shields, 1 blaster sorcerer, 1 positive energy cleric with selective channeling. lightning bolts and magic missiles can't get through the tower shields' cover, nor can the crossbow. channel negative deals at max 12 damage, even the 4th level sorcerer can survive that hit on a failed save. party delays so that sorcerer goes first, steps out, blasts with a scorching ray (within the level 4 cap), then the 2 fighters move back in front, cleric follows and patches up anyone hurt by readied actions/channel negative. 14 average damage from the scorching ray vs a 3rd level wizard or cleric, should take no more than 2 rounds with minimal losses to the party.

It's pretty much just a holdover from older editions of D&D when the devs didn't fully understand how medieval weapons work, and something that has been held onto for the secondary reason that it's simply an easy way to add a little bit of realism without going overboard and making things too complex.

the longsword for example. sure, you can stab and cut with it very well, but it was standard practice also to grip it by the blade and strike with the cross guard against enemies wearing particular types of armor against which it would be difficult to stab or cut, such as chain mail.

by this reasoning, most weapons should at least have 2 potential damage types, but reworking everything to have realistic damage types would also require reworking damage when dealing those types of damage, and then you have an almost annoying level of redundant complexity. conversely if you remove all damage types, suddenly you have the question of "why doesnt my hammer do more damage to brittle, easily smashed skeletons than the guy plinking away at them with arrows?" reasonably, the hammer would be more easily able to smash them, and the arrows would slip between ribs, break individual bones if that, and in short simply be less effective. so let the hammers do more damage.

it's easy, it's simple, and it jumps the gun on questions of realism.

Still need Dazzling Display though, which is i think his biggest issue with the feat.

Next best option is Two Weapon Feint though, and you're not getting through without a full 3 feats outside of your TWF requirements. 2 feats is a steal by comparison

You might consider a Swashbuckler dip for Menacing Swordplay. Free intimidate checks without Cornugon Smash, and the improved BAB will help you get Shatter Defenses quicker.

That sounds like Skull and Shackles.

you need more dex.

I know next to nothing about Golarion lore, or the different species and nations represented, but history has shown us that it's most economically viable to purchase slaves from groups that enslave their own people, as groups that do the whole raiding thing have so much overhead. I'd say talk to your DM about putting some basic fluff text together for local slavers in the area you're looking at, something that could be learned about with a diplomacy check to gather information, and go from there.

As for price, $800 in 1860 translates to about $21000 today, so I'd say base it on the cost of living on page 405 of the core. 10gp a month for average room and board, consumer pricing index puts the average cost of living at about 400 a month, so $21000 is somewhere in the area of 525gp.

in 3.5, the Battle Sorcerer variant was a good class to get your toes wet on casters, for pathfinder I'd suggest playing a Magus. limited list, and if you choose spells that don't fit the area you're in you can still whack things with a stick.

It works better for black dragons in swamps. Yeah it's hard to manage that many successful checks in a row, but dragging the party fighter below the murky, vision blocking depths is great action economy while it lasts, since it nullifies 3+ enemy's offense entirely

Any of my characters who can use one keep a CL 7 wand of magic missile with a dozen or so charges on hand for incorporeal creatures

Smoke pellets make handy concealment when escape is needed,

Campfire beads are great for escapes, distractions, and destruction of evidence

Even if you can pull it off - this is a really bad idea.

The reason is because more than 1-2 'pets' will start to slow down your game's play to a crawl as you move and roll for each of your 'pets' individually.

Frankly - while such character can be fun in video games where such calculations are all behind the scenes - it doesn't translate well to tabletop where you're doing everything manually.

not necessarily. just make sure you've got a lot of dice, know where you're going to move your pawns ahead of time, and just do it like a mini wargame. roll a fist full of dice, count up the hits, and roll up the damage. doesnt have to take 20 minutes. had a guy who played a necromancer once, could manage his little horde of 15-20 bloody skeletons in about 3 minutes tops. just make sure there is communication between you and your DM. you need to know AC totals so you can roll those 12d20, know that you hit on a 13, count up your 4 hits, roll damage, and move on. hell, use a digital dice roller to speed things up if need be.

7. Flask of oil (1 pint) + Tindertwig + twine; makes a cheap alchemist's fire that will continue to burn in a square, albeit for less damage.

8. Waterskin; it's a big opaque container. if you have problems with bandits at low levels, it makes a great place to store your emergency money.

9. Canvas; Your DM wants an excuse for how you're carrying around that bunch of swords and spears you've been collecting from enemies? wrap them all up in a sheet of canvas and tie it to your mule's back.

10. Hourglass; specifically the funnel-like glass bits. they're wonderfully useful for funneling alchemical acids into locks, delicate trap mechanisms, etc, for funneling water into small holes that might have poisoned needles waiting to stab you (poisons can be washed off after all), and for making sure you don't lose track of time when you're on watch duty.

11. Butterfly net; never worry about fighting pixies and grigs again

12. Periscope; the working man's Arcane Eye

13. Bellows, sneezing powder, half of an hourglass; funnel the sneezing powder into the bellows until sufficiently full, then insert end of bellows under the door of a room containing enemy nostrils. finally, repeatedly work the bellows for 3-6 pumps, then enter room. wet rags for breathmasks may be useful.

Summon monster spells to clog the battlefield and buy your Witch pal time to Slumber Spam them into submission. beyond that, knowing what level you are would be pretty useful info.

There is a feat, I can't remember the name, though some of the more Pathfinder-learned here might, that allows you to hold a charge on multiple limbs. since you can hold the charge on a spell indefinitely, you could feasibly cast a pair of touch spells pre-combat, hold the charge, then move in and deliver them both. I believe it would still be TWF, but natural weapons/unarmed strikes are light weapons, so it could be fairly doable

[Edit; My bad, that was in 3.5 Spell Flower in the Spell Compendium. Might be useful if your DM allows it]

Regarding terrible 3.5e classes: Soulknife, samurai and soulborn are made out of pure undiluted suckage, the same way the outer planes consist primarily of alignment made material.

Avernus is made out of Law. The seven heavens are made out of Law and Good. The soulborn is made out of Suck.

Complete list of classes to avoid taking 1-20:

Divine Mind
Dragon Shaman
Fighter
Healer
Hexblade
Kight
Lurk(ish)
Marshal
Monk
Ninja (although they do make the only half-way functional precision based archers)
Ranger
Rogue
Samurai
Soulborn
Soulknife
Spellthief(ish)
Swashbuckler
Truenamer(probably)

I'm not saying you couldn't make something good with the things on this list. You could, if you multiclassed and stuff. I'm just saying that as written, if you take these 1-20, you're going to suck.

3.5e had a much lower optimization floor, and a much higher optimization cieling than pathfinder ever had.

in regards to the list of allegedly s&@& classes (not arguing most of them, just a few)

I just finished DMing a group of 4 through Castle Whiterock, party was composed of a moderately optimized Dragon Shaman, a reach-weapon build Knight, a warlock(Walk Unseen, Fell Flight, the whole kebab), and a pouncing variant barbarian.
1) Dragon shaman has AoE buffs for DR/, fast healing, energy resistance, Touch of Vitality(for those who don't know, it's similar to the paladin's lay on hands), and a Juicy breath weapon with 1d4 recharge time, which means it can benefit from all of those metabreath feats. which means it's basically always Empowered and Maximized from the get go, not to mention the various debuff and CC effects thrown on top. Yes that's a 1st round trick and then you wait half a minute to use it again, but you've still got higher con than anybody in the party, barbarian included, and can handle yourself as a second line melee.

2) Knight. Combat reflexes, a reach weapon, Bulwark of Defense(area you threaten is difficult terrain) short haft(use your reach weapon as if it didn't have reach, thus no blind spot), and stand still with a belt of growth. That's a tank that outdoes all other tanks, and locks down a 15foot radius circle nigh infallibly starting at level 4.

3) Swashbucklers make a solid class. Int to damage in addition to strength on an full BAB progression class. Nothing in the class requires you to go high dex, but if you want to replace DEX for STR for damage, pick up Champion of Correlon and go to town with a 2handed elven court blade.

now, you mention taking a class 1-20. That's not something you do for nearly *any* class in 3.5, with the obvious exception of invocation based classes like the Dragon Shaman which rely heavily on their own class levels. most classes in 3.5 get frontloaded, and about level 6-7 you bounce over to a prestige class that offers more. for any class. You don't take a wizard in 3.5 for 20 levels either, so it's a bit of a false comparison you're making.
with the exception of full casters, almost everybody multiclasses. the fighter does it, the Duskblade takes a few levels of Swashbuckler to add his casting stat to damage so that he can drop STR. It's a Pathfinder mindset, keeping the same class for 20 levels, not something you do to optimize in 3.5. you'd be better served compiling a list of classes that people do take for 20 levels.

as for 3.5 having a higher optimization ceiling; you can thank paizo for a lot of that concerning the broken stuff the released in Dragon starting in 2002, and just wait a little longer. they've already had to ban their own classes from their own organized play, sit around for a few years, let Pathfinder acquire the same rules bloat that 3.5 has, and Paizo will hand you Pun Pun in a class of its own.

[Edit; elven court blade(RotW), not curved blade]

174. One of your teeth always feels as though it is a tad loose, regardless of your dental record.

175. Your hair is unruly, always forming a stacked perm regardless of your attempts to rectify the situation.

176. Before casting a spell, you are compelled to describe its inordinate power in a long, drawn out monologue.

177. Anyone whose hand you shake is plagued by hangnails for a lunar month.

178. If you cast more than a baker's dozen spells in a day, massive calluses grow on your fingertips, making it difficult to find components in your pouch.

Animate dead? large sized creatures that can use a weapon are fairly easy to find most of the time, just hand it to a bloody troll skeleton, and use it as a beatstick

Unfortunately we only have access to Core, APG, UC, and UM at the moment.

since I can't use that particular setup, what reach weapon would be best?

Ok, thanks. So full attack would be +14(2d12+7(str)+pa etc) and +7(1d12+10(str). +pa etc) ?

Am I understanding Overhand Chop and Backswing correctly, is my main question. All criticisms asked for.

the question is this;
My DM fudges dice rolls(pretty obviously but claims he doesn't) and hates SoS/SoD/SoL spells, preferring HP damage which he supports by stating monster weaknesses as "Damage" regardless of knowledge check. So my SoS spells rarely(to the point of almost never) ever land, regardless of the odds, if they are cast against anything that could be considered a threat.

How can I build this character going forward to make it less reliant on SoS spells, considering that we never find scrolls that I could scribe into my spellbook, liquid funds are a rarity, and purchasing spells is situational at best?

This is what I get for not re-reading the strength entry - I thought it was paralyzed, not unconscious.

You don't worry much about the strength damage because you're inflicting it to the new body. You can instead Limited Wish for a paulty 4 strength damage to get Raise Dead. You might even consider doing some bad things to the host body in the meantime.

it was in 3.5, Paizo swapped everything to unconscious or dead.

Ironically, the best way to f%$+ with necromancy is more necromancy. Chaining Command Undead will turn all those enemy minions into your minions, and those huge bloody storm giant skeletons too(no save for your standard undead, so who cares about the DC). And wizards love rolling fortitude saving throws, so break out the heightened persistent blindness. Mix and Match your favorite CC spells(dazing chain lightning if you're high enough level) and you're golden.

Wand of magic missile (cl5 ish) is a must if your Dm pulls incorporeal creatures out of left field.

Adhesive spittle for cost effective tanglefoot bags.

Personally I keep an aoe evocation wand around in case of a horde scenario, and wands of glyph of warding can turn combat on its head if you have time to prep the battlefield/defensible position.

At low levels, molten orb is better than acid arrow, and is independent of CL, so you can make an SR:NO wand cheaply.

A baron Harkonnen styled wizard who rides around on a Tenser's disk, casting fear spells and blinding people with his hideousness

Legio_MCMLXXXVII wrote:

It's a problem for people who end up with Rogues in their party, being a useless burden on their allies too.

If you can't hang on your own, stay home. Don't make me waste my resources cause you're bad at your job.

I'm not a fan of this mentality. The complaint is applicable to EVERY class as long as they're not optimized to a certain degree. If you find this to be a waste of your time, you should stay home and do something else with your time, don't ruin the fun of others.

And the Rogue can pull its own in some regards, you're not stuck with a Kobold Commoner.

Never underestimate a Kobold.

Give the familiar any beneficial touch spell, instruct it to deliver the touch on you on a command word. Free contingency!

Introduce a maul, the head of which is a giant egg-shaped rock. Over the course of months(in game), describe to the player how the color of the rock slowly shifts to a deep red, and how the player hears scratching noises from inside. Meanwhile be rolling the occasional will save for the player to recognize it as a simple illusion.

That's not how Heighten works odsaxhleel.

Heighten only grants an increase in DC equal to the number of spell slot levels increased by the Heighten Feat alone.

It's in the FAQ.

And those of us who go straight from the book without reading through pages of revisions and faqs(read; most gaming groups) would know that how?

Meanwhile, your daze has a save of 10+3+10+2 (let's say you are also shrodinger's...

Heighten spell gives you free DC, you can apply it to an already meta magic'd spell and use the new spell slot to determine DC. So ignoring fangs, how about a heightened dazing quite possibly persistent lightning bolt?

[edit: typo on heighten]

oldsaxhleel wrote:

if the wizard isn't a lich, served only by golems and undead, etc, then he probably has servants to tend to all of those tedious day-to-day tasks. No wizard wants to scrub clean the pit he keeps his goblinoid test subjects in.

So, grab a human commoner, knock him out, and put him under a geas(He must use his weekends off to go to a specific pub), and get him a job scrubbing the goblin pits. Then you have a guy on the inside who doesn't know he's your guy (after all, he just got mugged, and he has a nice routine on his saturday off, where the serving girl just so happens to be re-geasing him).
Let your manchurian candidate get into the wizards good light, then one saturday while he's enjoying his stout, place a new geas instructing him to use a dose of powerful poison (player provided of course) to kill the wizard, using whatever means at his disposal.

Best case scenario; a several month long plan comes to fruition, and your nemesis lies dead.

Worst case scenario; you waste a dose of poison, and a few scrolls.

If you worry about the poison approach, a necklace of fireballs makes a great gift, and nystul's aura can help you slip it in via your commoner's, ah, smuggling hold. and lets be honest, who spends all of their spell slots keeping protection from energy up 24/7?

If a wizard needs servants, why would he hire some bum off the streets when he can planar bind Planetars to do his housework?

Not that he needs to, when freaking Prestidigitation literally takes care of most day-to-day issues. >.>

But that's aside from the point. Level 20 wizards are likely to only surround themselves with those they can fully control. Your plan relies on a lot of assumptions that make it very likely to fail right from the start.

Plus, we're talking about a level where Astral Projection and Create Demiplane have been in full effect for ages. Even best case scenario you're looking at a slightly inconvenienced wizard with a dead Astral Projection/Clone.

We're both relying on assumptions, you that the wizard is played as you would play it; a hyper-paranoid control freak with no vices or oversights whatsoever, I that the wizard is played like a human or elf wizard in any of a thousand novels. I choose to assume that the wizard in question has flaws and oversights, because that's how I run them when I Dm. Great power creates great arrogance. Sure, the wizard can make a chain of demiplanes and hide his real body behind a long line of astral projections, but would he? At that level, a wizard is sure to have made outer planar enemies, who could find and snip his silver cord with some ease. Is he willing to leave himself open to an easy assassination by various outsiders all to forestall a death at the hands of mortals he no doubt considers himself above? Look at Elminster; always very concerned with the goings on of important folks; kings, malaugrym, devil princes, and consistently overlooks things that should be obvious, Narnra for instance, lives under his nose for 20 years unseen.

Against a living wizard in a living game, subterfuge and assassination can and do work if the proper steps are taken to avoid divination. Only the theoretically optimized wizards of this and similar forums are immune to their own arrogance, addiction and lust.

if the wizard isn't a lich, served only by golems and undead, etc, then he probably has servants to tend to all of those tedious day-to-day tasks. No wizard wants to scrub clean the pit he keeps his goblinoid test subjects in.

So, grab a human commoner, knock him out, and put him under a geas(He must use his weekends off to go to a specific pub), and get him a job scrubbing the goblin pits. Then you have a guy on the inside who doesn't know he's your guy (after all, he just got mugged, and he has a nice routine on his saturday off, where the serving girl just so happens to be re-geasing him).
Let your manchurian candidate get into the wizards good light, then one saturday while he's enjoying his stout, place a new geas instructing him to use a dose of powerful poison (player provided of course) to kill the wizard, using whatever means at his disposal.

Best case scenario; a several month long plan comes to fruition, and your nemesis lies dead.

Worst case scenario; you waste a dose of poison, and a few scrolls.

If you worry about the poison approach, a necklace of fireballs makes a great gift, and nystul's aura can help you slip it in via your commoner's, ah, smuggling hold. and lets be honest, who spends all of their spell slots keeping protection from energy up 24/7?

It'd probably be more useful to give new players an understanding of how to actually play. as in, teach them why they need to carry 50ft of rope, 3 flasks of oil, some tindertwigs, 2 iron spikes, a climber's kit, a spade and a sledge, in addition to their combat gear. maybe teach them why it's sometimes a good idea to wear light armor, even though you have heavy as a proficiency, and why any DM who uses Frostburn's hazard rules is not to be f*@~ed with.

Haven't read Occult Adventures yet, would this be similar to the ability progression of a class like the Shadowcaster in 3.5e ToM?

They'd never do it because it would take up too much book space, but a skill-tree similar progression of spells, and limited spells known for all classes (give clerics and wizards more known than spontaneous casters of course, since that's a staple of the class), would be friggin awesome. increasing specialization and limiting knowledge of spells does help with the power tier disparity, and helps make spellcasters feel more unique, even within the class. When one Conjurer wizard knows Orb of Force, and the 3 others cannot ever learn it because their abilities developed in a different direction is one of the best things that could be done. Martials have to deal with feat chains, spellcasters should have spell chains.

In games I run, my players are instructed to ignore alignment.

Paladins, monks, etc, who are alignment sensitive, are told to hold to *very* general idea of what that code of conduct should be.

as for the mechanical side of things, I keep a notepad open and just keep track of where I think they fall. Clerics for example, so long as they generally hold to their deity's mandates and dogma, I simply mark down as being their deity's alignment. If a rogue typically only steals robin-hood style, I'll mark him down as being somewhere in the CG/CN area, if he steals from whomever, and kills his marks if convenient, I'll mark him as CE or NE as appropriate.

I'm still on the fence about PF. I play it, but I still only DM 3.5, Call of Cthulhu, etc.

I greatly dislike the skill system, the way a lot of the spells were changed (particularly stuff like Death Ward, SoDs should have an easily available counter the same way domination does), and the front loaded character creation(Archetypes instead of an emphasis on PrCs). I dislike the fact that most of the Archetypes, Rogue/Barb talents/powers etc are pretty useless, or extremely niche, leaving only a few choices that actually make a difference in normal gameplay.

The fact that every spellcasting class gets bumped up in power tier while my beloved rogues wallow in the dirt irks me, and paizo's senseless development practices make me not want to touch books they put out. More than anything, the fact that PF seems to have classes, archetypes, etc designed around very specific play styles, as opposed to 3.5 where most classes are pretty much a blank slate upon which a character can be built, makes it quite annoying trying to make characters. What if I want to play a spellcaster built on the concept of enchantments? in 3.5 I pick an arcane spellcaster, whether a beguiler or a wizard, and pick the spells I want to use. in PF, I can do that, but the Serpentine bloodline Sorcerer is laughing at me every step of the way.

The over-specification of classes and archetypes is the single worst thing I've seen in a game that could have been very good. It's not RIFTS-tier bad where you play a Juicer or end up wasting half your actions dodging, but it's pretty damn close.

IMO PF isn't even really playable without extensive house ruling. Sure you house rule for 3.5, and I've incorporated there a few of the recent suggestions concerning casting time (I don't recall the poster, but it hinged on bumping all spells up to 1 full round casting time, and scaling those down as you pass them by).

62. Make Hole - Rather than repairing the damaged object, it further damages the object, potentially disintegrating it with no hope of repair.
63. Tongues - The caster's mouth rapidly fills with replicating tongues, and must make a fortitude save or suffocate.
64. Fiery Shield - As Fire Shield, except that the caster is not immune to the flames created.
65. Interposing Hand - Summons a hand of force which, through sign language, attempts to reach a compromise between the caster and the target.
66. Forceful Hand - Summons a hand of force which evicts you from the premises.
67. Mages Lubrication - As grease, centered on the [edit; Caster's] square.
68. Grasping Hand - Summons a hand of force with no sense of boundaries.
69. Irresistible Dance - The caster gains a +5 bonus to Perform(Dance) checks, and must save against the Macarena
[Edit; 67. Target to Caster]

Guru-Meditation wrote:

Play an Oracle if you want a Divine character that doesnt have to worship any God.

Atheism = sincere believe there are no Gods. Atheism in Pathfinder is a gross delusion, like if someone had the sincere believe in the Easterbunny here.

This is different from "Supremly powerful beings exist, can grant the power to do miracles, but are not worthy of worship."

The Ur-priest does not believe in gods... To the Ur-priest, dieties are nothing more than just strong outsiders. Nothing more. Not all powerful entities and such. The fact that demon princes and such can actually grant spells as well leads a bit of credemce to the idea. It is very similiar to the Old Gods in Dragon Age. The Tevinter Old Gods are essentially powerfu dragons, but they were believed to be divine. Does not make them gods though....

and that's why I worship Kossuth.

Slashing grace in the ACG, problem is it requires a 1 handed slashing weapon, so your choices are pretty limited. off hand, I can only think of 2 weapons that even qualify if you're wanting a weapon that actually qualifies for weapon finesse(why wouldnt you?), those being the dagger and the shortsword. rapier doesnt count because of piercing damage, and neither the longsword nor the scimitar can be used with weapon finesse. decent feat for TWF rogues, but that's about it.

Blasting is generally less than optimal for wizards anyway, so bringing down their blasting potential isn't exactly new. Besides metamagic, wizards have been doing the same damage forever, while folks have started getting con to HP at all.

The thing that makes wizards able to kill s~!~ so much more effectively (as you've mentioned in passing) are the spells that bypass HP entirely. what are the rules in this sub system for dealing with persistent wail of the banshee, or chain-reach-finger of death? Does it try to limit the number of nukes in wizard's pockets, or does it just make wizards just crappy blasters(eg; 5e)?

Have spells like baleful polymorph, Wall of X, and Ghoul Touch been completely removed, or are you just not using them in this demo?

If it's limited to just buffs/blasts, it's going to get boring *very* quickly for anyone who plays wizards precisely because they dont have to fight head on, Damage vs HP, and you might as well play 5e (Seriously, have a look at that spell list, might be exactly what you're looking for).

If it's not limited to just buffs/blasts, somebody is going to figure out a way to break it. if you can jack your DC up high enough, Silent Image is all you really need to break up a group of enemies and leave them waiting and willing to be killed, no different than a high DC Entangle.

the Grand Hoax advanced rogue talent would be very useful to you, even to the point that taking the Charlatan archetype would be worth it to get it early(or at all, given your build). Being able to spread a rumor and have it be accepted as fact throughout a city can give you a massive amount of weight to throw around in a more Social RP campaign.

Idle Champion wrote:

And if you put an Anti-Magic field on a high level fighter with armour that's still masterwork full plate under the enhancement bonus and a sword that can carve facets into a ruby... you didn't really accomplish very much.

Blatantly untrue. Martials suffer just as badly (if not worse) as caster in an AMF. Because the game relies on you having certain magic items to come close to matching CR adjacent challenges.

A dragon in an AMF is still a Huge-Colossal beast with 6 attacks per round and a massive AC. All it loses is its spelcasting.

Your Fighter just lost, AT MINIMUM, 8 to-hit and 9 damage (+5 weapon, +6 Str belt) per swing, -5 to saves (Cloak of Resistance), -15 to AC (Ring of Protection, Amulet of Natural Armor, +5 armor enhancement), and quite likely even more AC and/or a ton of HP (+6 Dex or Con on his belt as well, if not both). And his ability to bypass DR.

The dragon will END HIM. And so will any similar beatstick creature with an AMF.

Because a monster's power comes from its hit dice and racial abilities.

A Fighter's power comes from his magic bling.

As for the topic, yes giving Mythic ABILITIES (with some restrictions) would be helpful, but not Mythic TIERS.

Tiers are a problem by the high tiers, when you get into the unkillable thing.

But getting access to stuff like Seven League Leap, Uncanny Grapple/Master Grappler, Adamantine Mind and so on are the kind of utility boost martials need.

Cool s++& for cool people.

Bolding mine

Unless I am very much mistaken, this is about balance between player characters, not about Varsuvius's subplot in OOTS.

a wizard in an AMF is a guy with d6 HP, bad BAB, bad Saves, and a stick.
a fighter in an AMF is a guy with d10 HP, full BAB, varyingly good saves, good armor, good weapons, feats that still matter, and a temper.

it seems like the combat is a ranged game; reach weapons and archers, vs spell casters and (i assume) an inquisitor who uses a bow or crossbow. not really a surprise that the monk is getting shredded against that. that said I don't know the full circumstances, so I can hardly respond to that.

On topic: "X and Y spam" seems to sum up the problem in combat, yes? Would limited spells per day not solve that to an extent? with Elite array, the druid should have 4 castings of entangle, if that's the only spell he prepares in his 1st level slots, yes? would multiple encounters per day, varying their demands (1 fight at range, 1 fight very close, 1 fight a mix, some skill checks to overcome, places that utility spells are useful) not help solve that? the moment that spellcasters have to diversify, that ability to spam spells goes completely out the window.

I'm playing a 4th level necromancer wizard currently, typical spells: 1st level: mage armor, enlarge person, grease, ray of sickening, +Repair Undead, 2nd level: Blindness/Deafness, Command Undead, Mirror Image, +Scare.

Can't spam any save or lose spells, only have 4 overtly offensive spells, none of which can end a combat in and of themselves, 2 defensive spells, 1 buff, 1 utility(command undead, very useful for our setting) and 1 buff for our barbarian. We typically have 3-5 combats in an adventuring day, ranging from small encounters with a handful of 1HD warriors, to fights against multiple trolls. that sort of unpredictable, varied encounter, combined with long adventuring days, forces spellcasters to play it safe and save their spells.

I see the difference between your characters; flat line usefulness in the monk, rounds/day damage and minor casting from the inquisitor, and a handful of nukes in the pockets of the casters. what I also(given my lack of specific knowledge of your game) see, is spellcasters being allowed to dump all of those nukes in a given combat. I mentioned a few pages back a few houserules I use in my games; forcing material components to be used, and requiring 1 hour per spell level to prepare spells/regain spell slots. Spells are good as nukes, they're fun as nukes, and they're really easy to take away/limit.

Like I said, I've never in 15 years seen that happen. I've seen TWF fighters with the Tempest PrC swinging their swords like mad, and dealing respectable damage, next to wildshaped druid, next to the spellcaster launching bolts of lightning and various other spells, and here's the really wild part; a group of roleplayers, none of whom power gamed, were able to laugh and have a good time. nobody stepped on each other's toes. the fighter killed his guys while the druid ate a few others, and the wizard didnt try to get into melee.

You want to eliminate some of the spells that step on other folk's toes? Knock, and Monstrous Physique and the like? that's the prerogative of the DM. Every spell, every weapon, every feat, it's all an optional rule, and the best way to keep wizards from dominating everything is twofold; players stop trying to be power gaming A-holes stepping on everyone else's toes, and the DMs, when they see it happen, simply put a stop to it. The end. the reworking that the system needs is very minor; toss a few minor options toward martials(such as the aforementioned networking feats/talents), and require spellcasters to specialize more. Specialty priests, for instance, were awesome. customized spell lists are great, the only reason they're not used any more is because it takes up too much paper in a rulebook.

Here is the ultimate question.

Does adding in mythic give martials many more options?

If it just bloats their numbers then you will be wasting your time and imbalancing the system math. Numbers aren't the problem. It's versatility and narrative power.

at first tier, the character would be able to take a power allowing him to commune as the spell 1/day, and the Trickster path ability, Thwart Detection, helps with getting past magical defenses(basically lets you ignore Alarm, symbol spells, Forbiddance, etc). the rest seems mostly combat related.

I think you might be missing the point. The fact is that for any role a mundane martial can do, there is a full caster or 6th level caster that can fill that role about as well, fill it better, and do 100 other things as good or better than that martial. This largely applies to low magic classes as well (e.g. 4th level casters). 9th and 6th level casters can do most if not all of what they do, and do so many other things as well. Would you rather have a Fighter, or a pouncing wildshape Druid? Monk or Sacred Warfist? Rogue or Bard?

No, it is you who is missing the point. The point is that this is a roleplaying game, not an MMO. You want to play the soldier gone adventuring? fighter. Want to play the nature loving shaman? Druid. Want to play the socialite and thief? rogue. want to play a devotee of your chosen god? Cleric, paladin, etc, depending on what type of character you're wanting to make.

It's a roleplaying game at its base, and that's going to color everything.
Teleport, for instance. why does it exist? to give players a way to move the entire party from place to place quickly. a group utility spell. It doesnt make sense to give it to the non spellcasters, so you give it to the spellcasters. the end. Want to get wizards/clerics/druids out of the front line martial role? get rid of the summon monster spells. Please, get rid of it, the rest of us hate celestial badgers, they're senseless fluff to begin with.

The mechanics of the classes exist to give character concepts the mechanical ability to fill their roles. Simply because a class has the potential to step into the role of another class does not mean that the player will do so. theoretically, the full casters can step into every role, but in 15 odd years of playing, i've yet to see one do so. players find their niche and integrate into the party. theoretical God builds try to be the best at everything.

mentioned earlier in the thread were ideas like giving rogues the ability to use contacts to get them anywhere quickly, to compensate for wizard's mobility. paizo started that thankfully, just didn't go far enough(Black Market Connections, Grand Hoax, etc).
If casters need a fix, it's to increase specialization. Go back to 3.5 prohibited classes, and pick a few more schools that can't go above 4th level spells. that sort of thing.

Most of the combat-oriented examples of how a caster is so much more powerful than a martial seem to assume that the caster has prepared for the combat(buffs in place, floating above the world with plenty of summons to defend him), is in a place of absolute security(his extra dimensional fortress), and has plenty of clones, and maybe a phylactery, in the event of his death.

Like most of the theoretical optimization stuff I've seen on these boards, it relies on massive "what-if" circumstances, and requires that the spell caster take the exact same precautions that you would.

First of all, it has already negated the fact that the spell caster (let's assume wizard) is going to be, or should be, a living creature in the game world. So unless we're talking about a Larloch styled recluse, that situation is suddenly thrown out. Let's look at our *actual* high level spell casters from fiction; Elminster, who despite being a high powered spellcaster actually went out and did things gasp in person, carrying a handful of magic items. Szass Tam, who almost invariably throughout the War of the Zulkirs engaged in combat in person, and, in fact, is depicted as changing his rings, amulets, and bracers prior to the final battle, meaning that he wasn't prepared for combat prior.

so what do we have there? spellcasters who live lives, prepare their spells based on their day to day lives as opposed to exclusively preparing for combat, and are so self sure, so arrogant, that they go out into combat personally, rather than sending a simulacrum, or using their 99th iteration of Astral Projection. Wizards use the restroom, they take a break from studying their spellbooks and take a walk around the palisade, they prepare a bunch of Sending spells so they can chat with their other wizard friends, they turn into birds and go flying, because f*ck you they're wizards. And don't forget the Mage Lords of fiction. the arrogant, preening overlords. Vices are enormous weak spots, I think we can look to Hollywood and Washinton DC to see what power does to people in that regard, and Mage Lords of fiction tend to have a penchant for being killed by their intended lovers. Give the half orc barbarian a potion of disguise self and a corset, job done.

The assumption that they're all powerful is based on a combination of wizards' own false assumption that they are all powerful, and the all too common power gaming shenanigans that produce things like the Mailman Sorcerer, but those assumptions should make them more vulnerable. People who are convinced that no one would be foolish enough to try to poison them eventually stop casting detect poison every time they want a drink of water.

Spell casters being broken has a very simple fix; Stop looking for ways to break them.

If your DM runs wizards as being recluses that live on their own demiplanes, locked in a massive throne room, behind thousands of wards and permanent scrying spells, peering at every corner of their lair with a thousand facsimile eyes searching for the slightest sign of an intruder, all spell slots devoted to combat, then your DM is an a$$hole who cares more about combat than about providing a roleplaying experience where NPCs and PCs actually live in the world, rather than existing only for the purpose of a fight no one will care about a week later.

if that's your wizard, then congratulations, you've successfully reduced what could have been a character to nothing more than a stat block and a gimmick to eliminate all of your vulnerabilities. Hope you have fun reducing what could be an entertaining and immersive hobby down to a mechanical grind for no better reason than so that your character can be "better" than everyone else's.