Creating a minion lord


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Hello, right now I'm in the process of creating a character that can create, summon, has many minions at their disposal. I'm not taking about temporary minions, but permanent ones.

Trying to avoid animate dead, right now I have a mesmerist with demonic obedience towards nocticula for that nasty dominate thrall boon.

Shackles of vile durance can get me some slaves that have caster levels and can dominate \summon

Is there anything else I can grab? Are constructs worth it? And what high CR creatures have an ability to spawn more minions?

Sovereign Court

Even if you can pull it off - this is a really bad idea.

The reason is because more than 1-2 'pets' will start to slow down your game's play to a crawl as you move and roll for each of your 'pets' individually.

Frankly - while such character can be fun in video games where such calculations are all behind the scenes - it doesn't translate well to tabletop where you're doing everything manually.


Charon's Little Helper wrote:

Even if you can pull it off - this is a really bad idea.

The reason is because more than 1-2 'pets' will start to slow down your game's play to a crawl as you move and roll for each of your 'pets' individually.

Frankly - while such character can be fun in video games where such calculations are all behind the scenes - it doesn't translate well to tabletop where you're doing everything manually.

This is mainly for NPC confirmation and a "this is how it would go down" thing. This character will more than likely never see the light of pc play

Sovereign Court

Well - there's the Hunter archetype built for it - the Packmaster. (not exactly powerful - but it does what you're going for)


Timothy Masters wrote:
right now I have a mesmerist with demonic obedience towards nocticula for that nasty dominate thrall boon.

Wait, what? At 20th level that obedience gives you permanent Dominate Monster, and at 20th level your mesmerist capstone gives you...a permanent dominate monster. Did you really want two thralls? The mesmerist is better, BTW, since it's Su and can't be dispelled.


Sha'ir archetype for Occultist.

It gives you jin (small genies; functionally similar to small elementals with the young template), and their base mechanics make them similar to familiars as far as HP and saves go. If you concentrate on one and spend some of your class' resource, they power up and get the stats of an actual elemental (and as you level, they act like stronger and stronger elementals). You can also have one of your jin count as a small elemental at all times for free.

Occultists in general have the 'outside contact' ability, which lets them summon up some outsider to do some task (like spying or delivering items), and Sha'ir can use their jin instead.

For the purposes of your main problem: you get 1 sha'ir at level 1, a second at level 6, and a 3rd at level 14. They replace your implements, but also count as an implement for most purposes. So yes, you get little toadies that can do tasks, and they can also smash enemies in the face if you spend time/resources.


Charon's Little Helper wrote:

Even if you can pull it off - this is a really bad idea.

The reason is because more than 1-2 'pets' will start to slow down your game's play to a crawl as you move and roll for each of your 'pets' individually.

Frankly - while such character can be fun in video games where such calculations are all behind the scenes - it doesn't translate well to tabletop where you're doing everything manually.

not necessarily. just make sure you've got a lot of dice, know where you're going to move your pawns ahead of time, and just do it like a mini wargame. roll a fist full of dice, count up the hits, and roll up the damage. doesnt have to take 20 minutes. had a guy who played a necromancer once, could manage his little horde of 15-20 bloody skeletons in about 3 minutes tops. just make sure there is communication between you and your DM. you need to know AC totals so you can roll those 12d20, know that you hit on a 13, count up your 4 hits, roll damage, and move on. hell, use a digital dice roller to speed things up if need be.


Simulacrum has a cost, just like animate dead, but does not (usually) create undead. Create yourself a staff w/simulacrum with the material component cost for 3HD-5HD creatures, and create as many minions as you want. No cap, unlike animate dead. They are forced to obey you. If you can cast spells with a coven like feature, make coven witches, and get incredible CL of spells.

Creatures that create spawn usually wind up with spawn out of your control. They also tend to be undead. Being a necromancer can be fun, but it tends to get you run out of town. Making many sims, however, could make you like the guy of Despicable Me with lots of little fellows to boss around.

/cevah


A staff of Simulacrum for a 4HD creature and using 5 charges each time would have a price of 30,400 gp (cost 25,200 gp). Using 1 charge each would have a price of 152,000 gp (cost 126,000 gp).

The spell is Sor/Wiz 7 @ CL 13, but it is also Summoner 5 at CL 13. Additional CL does nothing for the spell, so the staff can be made at the minimum CL 13. The material component of 500 gp per HD of created creature is what hurts. You need 50 sets divided by the number of charges. At 4HD, it costs 2/3 of the staff.

If a minion is only 1HD, then at 5 charges each, the staff would have a price of 15,400 gp (cost 10,200 gp). At 1 charge each, price is 77,000 gp (cost is 51,000 gp)

As the casting time is 12 hours, it will take some effort to make a new minion. However, at 5 charges per use, you can continuously make a new one once every 5 days until you have sufficient for your needs. As the staff has 10 charges, you could make two without recharging.

Recharging the staff will take up a fifth level spell slot, at least. Might be easier to put on another 5th level spell with no component at 5 charges for an additional 15,600 (7,800 cost). It could be a 5th spell that is more common than Simulacrum, in case you are a caster without that spell. Any spell you always want prepared, but might not cast each day. Like: Baleful Polymorph, Beast Shape III, Cloudkill, Dominate Person, Elemental Body II, Feeblemind, Magic Jar, Monstrous Physique III, Overland Flight, Shadow Evocation, Summon Monster V, Teleport, or Undead Anatomy II.

Any wizard would do this, since it lets you recharge the staff with a 5th level spell slot and not not a 7th level spell slot. It also lets you have a usable spell you might not use that day, but you want available each day. Any casters that are not summoners would do this also, since it lets them access a great spell for only a 5th level slot.

/cevah

Dark Archive

Vanilla Summoner. A line of feats (Nature Soul, Animal Ally, and preferably Boon Companion) will net you an animal companion. Summon Monster spell-likes followed up by the Summon Eidolon spell is how you will field your legion. Tack on Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) for a familiar, then Improved Familiar so it's something that can abuse UMD to help support cast. Naturally, Master Summoner has more numbers on its side but I'm not a fan of 1/2 Eidolon progression.

Give your Eidolon the Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) feat because your mascot needs a mascot.

You now have anywhere from 5 to 4 + 1d4 bodies on the field, depending on what you're using Summon Monster for. This is all before using spells such as Simulacrum, Animate Dead and Planar Binding.

Added bonus: Get Leadership and start the process all over again. There is no escape from this madness.


Rosc wrote:
Vanilla Summoner

If it's just for body count, Brood Master archetype offers 8 Small eidolons at level 13.

Charon's Little Helper wrote:
there's the Hunter archetype built for it - the Packmaster

Yup, the base classes have such archetypes also: Ranger has Beast Master (up to 17 animals at level 20) and druid has Pack Lord (20 at 20). I guess it's no coincidence the hunter version was named Packmaster, given the names of the base class archetypes...

Dark Archive

SheepishEidolon wrote:
Rosc wrote:
Vanilla Summoner
If it's just for body count, Brood Master archetype offers 8 Small eidolons at level 13.

That many? Dang. I excluded it because I figured it would have weird interactions with Summon Eidolon, but you really can't beat numbers like that.

Then again, a vanilla Eidolon can get Leadership....


Rosc wrote:
Then again, a vanilla Eidolon can get Leadership....

So it could get a summoner as follower who also has an eidolon with Leadership which could get a summoner as follower... :D


dot

Dark Archive

SheepishEidolon wrote:
Rosc wrote:
Then again, a vanilla Eidolon can get Leadership....
So it could get a summoner as follower who also has an eidolon with Leadership which could get a summoner as follower... :D

Granted, Eidolons have reduced Hit Die compared to a PC at the same level as their Summoner, so the cycle eventually peters out. But at least each branch is a fork.

Then again, you get to play as an Eldritch Pyramid Scheme, a character concept that's just fun to say, never mind fielding it.

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