manolo-mm's page

Hello everybody

A question regarding the thaumaturge. If you build a weapon thaumaturge with obviously two one handed weapons its also obvious to use feats like double slice... so far so good...

Double slice states: "Combine the damage from both Strikes and apply resistances and weaknesses only once."

To underline my issues I'll use the following example: The creature has two weaknesses iron and fire.

So if you use EXPLOIT VULNERABILITY and then use Mortal Weakness or Personal Antithesis you hit the creature twice but RAW the the weakness is only triggered once as you would if you had two iron weapons.

But what if you have one iron and one fire weapon? Then both weaknesses will be triggert. And that's what bothering me, especially with a class that is based on weaknesses.

Why is it that if you hit the creature two times with an iron weapon it only counts once but it counts twice if you hit with the iron and fire weapon?

In conclusion if you find out that a creature has a vulnerability that you with trigger with one of your weapons anyway you would always take Personal Antithesis to gain a secondary weakness only to bypass this issue. In my view it invalidates Mortal Weakness totally.

Or do I forget something?

I hope it will be in Dark Archive based on the book's description.

Specifically, this part : "the secret of becoming a living vessel for an eldritch being".

that sounds at least promising... thx

I love the summoner but I'm still waiting for the promised class archetype that would be the basis of so many cool builds. So is there any word out when it will come?

Hey...

There is this new Spell Time Jump and I wonder if it works with both the Summoner and his Eidolon? The thing is they share their actions. So if the Summoner casts the Spell and basically has two free actions afterwards it should affect the Eidolon as well or not? There is a whole section on shared actions and effects that reduce or increase actions like slow and haste. So I'm not sure but I tend towards that this are basically two free actions that both share as they share all actions.

Whats your opinion?

Also can be used to do other shenanigans, like unmanifesting (1 action) and then calling it again (1 action, it gets to go immediately) to pull it out next to you. And you can then Act Together to fall back while it hits the thing threatening you again, etc.

Then make it a class feat in the mid lvl range but its no lvl 19 feat...

To address these:

Manifest eidolon doesn't have a duration; nothing stops you from having it out at most times. It's not like wild shape where you need to up it every time. Since it can take a seperate exploration tactic from you, there's actually little reason to not keep your buddy up most of the time.

Meld Eidolon is basically just for avoiding multiple hit boxes and let you use your eidolon's physical abilities; synthesist is confirmed to be a class archetype in the works to allow for the mech build.

I agree with sizes, they should be optional per manifest

Spell slots were a disappointment to me, I really wished they got something akin to the magus where they got free eidolon boosting spells with a restricted list themed on the eidolon.

Of all the stuff though, I'm actually surprised you didn't mention the issue of ostentatious arrival hurting the summoner when they manifest their eidolon, as well as Eidolon's wrath hurting a rider. These issues imo are actually the biggest things that should need a lookover

Hey...

I think with some Eidolons you can keep it out all a long like the Angel but others might be a big problem in Citys for example a Demon, Dragon or so. Especially if its large/huge. But what is synthesist?

I personally didnt skill ostentatious arrival and Eidolon's wrath. And thats why I didnt think of it. But I thought its kind of stupid that the Eidolon has to cast Eidolon's wrath itself and therefor triggering Attack of opportunity. Especially if the caster has not much to do anyway.

Not to be That Guy, but the playtest did finish up quite a while ago. I think looking for errata much in the same way like game devs would patch a game may not be the way to approach this.

Sure but it has been done, for example with the alchemist. A lot could also be done via additional rules in new books like with the APG additions to the main classes. Or nothing will happen. Its feedback and the writers will decide if its valid or not...

Hey everyone but especially the paizo writers...

First of all I like the summoner very much but there is a little room for improvement and I wanted to take the time to give some feedback for the next errata.

Manifest Eidolon:
I think this is the biggest point to address. 3 actions at the start of the battle is a huge bummer. I think it would be good to reduce the actions on higher levels (lvl 5 2akt, lvl 10 1akt, lvl 15 free akt) and replace the lvl 19 feat with something that feels more like a benefit. Maybe an additional evolution feat at Manifestation or a free evolution surge. That would show the progression of the bond to your eidolon and that it becomes more natural to call it.

Meld Into Eidolon:
I think this is a missed chance for so much cool builds! For example a full Mech Build! I think it would be enough that you lose your act together action to make it balanced. Maybe push it to a higher level or make a follow up feat that enables to possibility to take control of the eidolon. Also it would reduce this awkward feeling that the eidolon is the main class while the caster stands in the rear doing nothing as using boost every round!

Sizes:
Hulking Size and Towering Size are great options to make a for example a dragon rider build but the size can be a problem in houses, dungeons and so on. People say you can get shrink down to mitigate the problem but that seems wrong to me that you need additional feats to suppress an effect that you already bought via a feat while the opposite feat has this option build in. Especially with a class with so many strong feats. So it would be great if you make hulking/towering size like shrink down and so that you have to use an action to activate it and be able to dismiss it as well.

Spellslots:
I think reducing the spellslots over all is totally ok to balance the class but right now it feels a lot like a Martial class that has some Appendix that can cast a very minor way. I would like to have something similar on low level spellslots like the Magus because these spellslots are more utility and not very powerful. That would give the Summoner a little bit more flexibility on things to do with his actions instead of always attack with the eidolon. It should be a choice if you attack your if you do a grease to hinder the opponents.

I guess the intention was to make it obvious that the Summoner and its Eidolon are connected without the possibility to hide that. And I agree I don't think its intended to bug stealth and stuff like invisibility but a word from the writers would be good!

'Cause the Spellslots on both are very limited... Would be really OP if it would still work!

Just wondering what happens if you get a Ring of Wizardry on a Magus or Summoner? Do you get the Bonus Spellslots? And on what level? xD

Ok it says:

"As long as your eidolon is manifested, the sigil glows with light and can’t be covered or disguised via any means; it will shine through clothing, appear over cloaks, and remain unaffected by obfuscating magic."

Does this basically mean as long as you have your Eidolon by your side there is no possibility for any stealth action even with the Invisibility Spell? I mean sneaking towards the bad guys camp weapons drawn is not possible if you dont want to spend your first round on the suprise attack on calling your main attack option?

Thats really odd! Or do I miss read that?

Thx!

too bad... thx

One more question on that topic... When I use Act Together for the Eidolon attack (e.g. draconic frenzy) and I want to use the additional action for boost Eidolon (because I want to use 3 offensive actions on the Eidolon for example) does the boost count for the attack that runs simultaniously?

When I read the Spell Rep section right you always have max 5 spells in your Spell Rep right? A real bummer btw... But what if I get another Caster Dedication like Wizz as an Archetype that also has the same Tradition as I have from my Eidolon, can I use these spells with my spellslots from the summoner?

Ok, thanks folks! I hope it works like that ;-)

Act Together has one character perform an activity of variable length and then the other character performs one action.

So you can use Act Together to Cast A Spell and then your Eidolon can Strike.

That's three actions worth of stuff for a Two Action activity.

Yeah I get the intend but why isn't stated like that? My group is one of rule nazis and they might argue that it could be one the the normal action because its not stated that the addional action is free!

From what I read on the forum the Act Together thing is getting you an extra action? Maybe its just me but I don't find that. It's just says that one is taking some actions and the other one takes one too. It doesnt state that its an extra action or do I read it wrong?

Jeez still so long to go... Can't you just give us Guns&gears now and Secrets of Magic in October?!!!

manolo-mm wrote:

Captain Morgan wrote:

There's a 4th level oracle feat called divine access you can take multiple times. With it you can cherry pick all the spells you want from the other lists.

Would be great but its actually just Cleric Spells and Clerics also have the Divine List.

The Cleric's Granted Spells from their gods are specifically NOT typical Divine tradition spells. Spells like Fireball and whatnot are such examples of Granted Spells. So picking up these Cleric spells will add new spells to your spell repetoire as Divine spells.

I see, but you can only choose from mystery granted domains. So if we stay with the flames oracle its fire and sun. I just went through the deities of fire and sun and its mostly the same spells all over again. A lot of burning hands, some fireballs but unfortunately not much variety.

For home games it also wouldn't be terribly hard to houserule a different tradition list for the Oracle. There isn't much in the feats and such that directly references Divine tradition. Doing so would definitely weaken the Divine Access need, so removing that feat probably wouldn't hurt.

Obviously wouldn't work for PFS games.

Unfortunately my Group doesn't do Houserules.

There's a 4th level oracle feat called divine access you can take multiple times. With it you can cherry pick all the spells you want from the other lists.

Would be great but its actually just Cleric Spells and Clerics also have the Divine List.

Hello Paizo Writers

First of all, I love 2nd Edition its great, keep up the good work!

Second, I'm a caster player and for a long time the Oracle was something I wanted to check but it was so much. Now I finally did it and I like the Oracle very much, except the Divine Spell List won't fit to all sub classes! I really think that the Oracle is like the Sorcerer and the Witch that has very variable Sub classes that differ a lot and its a pity that you missed that opportunity!

I would love to play a fire oracle goblin but that screams to have an arcane spell list with a lot other fire spell and of course the fireball! The divine spell list is really ruining the whole idea on that!

Same with other mystery's like Ancestors or Bones that sound a lot like occult. Tempest and Life could easily be primal. Honestly I don't really get the divine vibe on any of the sub classes!

I know its difficult to make big changes like this but if you have the possibility it would benefit this class very much!

You're right about overdrive that its INT based but its still a skill check and for the sake of the example of an Human/Orc with 18 INT and STR at lvl 5 it would make zero difference in to hit or +damage. It would only make the class more divers and no MAD class anymore. I would always see a little flexibility in how to build you class more valuable instead of a class that you have to build in a certain way.

First of all, I love the concept of the Inventor! And I want to play it so bad as a goblin with a large Mech Construct or a Dwarf with a big Axe. But unfortunally its another MAD class. You basically need INT and STR at max, CON, DEX, WIS at least decent and only CHA could be seen as "dump stat". And the worst is that you only really can take Human or Ork to build it like that. I never understood the concept of fixed ability boost and flaws. Thats so hindering in having fun at building divers characters! At least you could have build in a optinal rule that you can choose ability boosts/flaws by yourself. And you could change Attack and Damage boosts by the classes key ability or at least make a feat thats make you change it in that way. I saw someones build at level 5 with 16 INT and 18 STR! That tells me that there is a major design flaw on the class. When the key ability is not worth on having it at 18 on level 5 but another stat is, then you made a big mistake!

Ok enough blame, how to fix it? I tried finess builds and stuff like this and giving the player the option between DEX and STR as Weapon Damage Modifier would be a solid option, but I have a better idea.

Grant the Invention a INT modifier. The Weapon Invention gets a INT to attack and damage modifier. The Armor Invention gets a INT restriction instead of STR and maybe reduced -feet based on the INT modifier. The construct just gets general stats influenced by INT. And that would shift the Inventor from a MAD class to a really awesome class with a lot ancestry options!