jedi8187's page

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Observation: Despite the attempt, it is quite clear Paizo has made no head way on making the class less contentious.

To those saying these abilities don't make sense for *insert deity*, you are absolutely right. Which is the very reason the class should not be built from the ground up as one alignment. Build it with all alignments so that the feat choices, or even one given, vary based on your alignment. Like how the new cleric's channel is based of deity entry not alignment. By building for one, you automatically make the others more difficult to pursue later. They are removing options this way.

"Would you tell LG only fans to go away", yes because they are telling me to. My version of the paladin includes yours, so we can both be happy, your version shuts out options I want to use, thus shutting me out. One way is all inclusive except for those who are super fanatical about their way only, while another is very exclusive. Guess which is better for newer players, a stated goal of this edition.


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Quandary wrote:
jedi8187 wrote:
Why can only LN, LG, and NG deities have champion warriors of their faith? If you are going to have paladins as champions of the faith they need to be open to all or most deities. If you want them to be the knight in shining armor archetype drop the champion of faith aspect. This is why the War Priest was created in first edition.

Yeah... Bringing up War Priest undermines your conceit. LG Paladin does not imply non-LG champions of faith don't exist. Be that War Priests, or alt-Paladins ala Antipaladin, Tyrants, Liberators, etc. If Paizo tomorrow announces they are releasing all Alignment Extreme Champion classes in Core, nothing about Paladin changed. Nothing they are doing implies anything about future implementation of those concepts.

I think they are great concepts and can do well with own class, even P1e Antipaladin felt a bit strained IMHO (as defacto archetype of Paladin), but that's what you get when taking that approach. IMHO they deserve to be at least as distinct as Druids from Clerics, does even the 'armor' focus (mostly proficiency from what we know) fit a CE Antipaladin psychopath?

War Priest is my conceit so it doesn't undermine it. They had to introduce a new class, or classes if you include anti-paladin, and archetypes to cover these ideas because the base version was too limiting to allow them. That's my whole point.

If they were adding War Priest to core I would be fine. But they aren't at the moment, and since the Paladin is still tied to faith alongside it's alignment I'd wager they aren't planning on doing it soon. So yes I want them to make the base version more open, instead of waiting half a decade to be able to play my CG champion of *insert CG deity*.


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I'm disappointed this is being built from the ground up as the same old same old. It will make it harder to expand if you decide to open it up (which I very much hope you do)

Why can only LN, LG, and NG deities have champion warriors of their faith? If you are going to have paladins as champions of the faith they need to be open to all or most deities. If you want them to be the knight in shining armor archetype drop the champion of faith aspect. This is why the War Priest was created in first edition.

Second edition is a chance to look back and make new decisions where they are needed. This is a case where I think you should go a different direction, because nothing has changed and Paladins will continue to be a divisive topic for the next decade. Which is a shame cause I like the mechanics, but might want to push more neutral or even chaotic good.


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As someone who loves to mix it up in melee this blog makes me so happy. Weapon choice is always so important to my character views, and this means I get to experiment and vary with each new character.


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I should have checked the original poster's name before clicking this thread. Another "it's not what I want, so it's bad" idea.

Alchemist has been said to have been one of the most popular classes in the game. It's also one of the most unique (I don't really count hybrid for this cause those classes are by nature mash ups, despite the outcome). And finally it's the class with the biggest need of a redesign. Not from a power perspective, but the PF1 alchemist is a creation of putting a square peg in a round hole. Making it core gave them a reason to make the hole square.

But maybe it's my player bias, as I like the class. Just like your bias that it shouldn't be core because it isn't "classical" enough.


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I like paladins as the ultimate warrior of a god or ideal. So codes like 5E or the diety based ones of PF. Because those concepts (and the LG only paladin could fall into the ultimate warrior of the ideal of good/justice) are too fruitful for ideas to be restricted to one interpretation.
If you want to restrict them more, houserule it in your game. And if they keep the LG only rule: I'll be houseruling it out like I have since 3.5. Once I buy the book it's my game, and my friends and I can play how we want. No one is holding a gun telling me I have to follow the RAW if I don't want to. So the idea of limiting the class to a narrow view baffles me, but I'll do it my way no matter what.


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I prefer the 5/talent. It encourages some focus, which is what I like about the sphere systems. It discourages exactly what the proponents for it seem to want, grabbing a group of spheres for max skill ranks, instead of making an actual style.


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This has gone from a meh thing for me, to an awesome one now that details are coming out. So many Hag themed character ideas now.


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I like gathering power while moving. There were plenty of time my kinetic knight wanted to gather power and needed just a few feat of movement to get in range to hit with the whip. I would have taken it in a heartbeat.

The rest of the stuff sound cool. I was leaning towards getting this, now I most certainly will.


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The Knight is a good archetype, if you can stand to give up range.


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I think this is my favorite iconic so far. Not much to glean about the Solarion that we didn't know before, so I'll just have to wait for that preview. I like the cycle. Have a budding idea for a Solarion Priest that combines the Cycle philosophy with worship of Pharasma somehow. Was not expecting SOlarion to come before Technomancer, so pleasant surprise.


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Mashallah wrote:
Luke Spencer wrote:
Mashallah wrote:

I don't see how is looting augmentations any different morally from looting gear.

Either way you take possessions from a dead enemy.
I think there's a pretty big difference between taking coins from someone's pocket and ripping their arm off, I just don't see a priest of Iomedae doing that sort of thing. There's no doubt that these things could theoretically have value but I just don't see it as a very 'Space Opera' thing to do, it's way more fitting for a cyberpunk game, but that's just my opinion
But it's not their arm. It's literally a piece of gear they're wearing in place of an arm.

Do you see the difference in taking someone's weapon from their living hand, and removing a living person's prosethetic limb? That cyber ware isn't just hanging on their body, it's part of their body now. Artificial or not it is integrated into the body, and so it's not just gear.


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Just because I can get all 18's in my stats doesn't mean I should. First that means I'm starting at 14 in my main stats, that means until I hit an augment or level 5 for I'm subpar. Sure you might be able to afford it. If you assume you focus on getting your main stat to 18 then after level 5 or 10 it only improves with augments, leaving you at a plateau. But the other thing is simply: my non diplomatic soldier would rather a +1 to str/dex/con than a +2 to cha. Like wise if I can make do with 5 (or however many) skill points, is that +2 to int really worth more than my main casting/attacking stat or or one of my secondary stats? Sure you can get 18's in all stats, but is it really more beneficial than focusing on 4 stats and getting those as High as you can?


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Why not both?


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I don't care about compatibility outside of monsters and races. I have no plans to try and convert any classes and such. I do love the math fixes talked about. I feel it's gotten to a point in gaming where +X weapons and armor are used because they've always been there, and the system math warps around having them rather than them being there because the math needs them. And yes more accurate weapons are nice, maybe there will be something the provides a small but not unbalancing amount with the fixed math. As for damage, pickup the equivalent flaming enchantment, or one of it's cousins.


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Really excited about this actually. I have really enjoyed Hell's Rebels so far, but it will end in a few months as our group splits up with half of us moving. So hopefully I can get my new group to do this (maybe even all vigilante's as I mentioned in the other thread), to keep that intrigue vibe going. You know on top of the 5-6 other campaigns I want to do, not mention stuff they want to do.


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Kalindlara wrote:
jedi8187 wrote:
Where can i read more about Rivethun? Cause I've fallen in love with that organization.

They're the one sort of out-of-place organization, since this is really the first in-depth look at them.

Rivethun were first mentioned in the Meet The Iconics blog for the iconic shaman, Shardra Geltl. They've had brief mentions a couple of times since then, in Haunted Heroes Handbook and Healer's Handbook; their popularity landed them a slot in this book.

It's not much, but hopefully that helps. ^_^

It does. I've read the meet the iconics article before, may reread it. I will have to check out Haunted Heroes and Healer's Handbooks.


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We were doing so good with info on the AP and silencing of those arguing about a topic no longer relevant to this thread.

That outline and stuff looks awesome. And does look like a good place to try an all vigilante group if I can convince other players to be on board.


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Hey I have an idea why don't we talk about the product, and move this time line advancement sky falling stuff to another thread so those of us who want to talk about this AP can do so.


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I've only Skimmed the book. I haven't gone in depth yet, but I enjoy it so far. Not a lot of organizations I'm gung-ho about using, but there are a handful I like. However, many do offer an archetype, PrC, or feats that interest me if were to play in a campaign appropriate for it's use. I've just started getting into Golarion lore, and this book has helped spark my interest in a few parts of it.


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Milo v3 wrote:
Was there any info about whether Wood kineticists would have enough material to not have to become aero/geo/hydro/pyro/telekinetics?

I'm not sure if it was said at Paizocon, but one of the devs said if they reprinted wood it would be with basic phyto and positive blast if I remember correctly. So looks good.


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The Mad Comrade wrote:
jedi8187 wrote:
The Mad Comrade wrote:
Vigilantes should do very well. Interesting.
I wonder if I can convince my group to do the all vigilante party for this one.

I only have a faint acquaintance with the class, but if it has access to adequate healing capabilities - or you're willing to modify the scripted treasure (or equivalent) if it does not - then I'd suggest giving it a solid effort.

If nothing else, perhaps the "Social Identity" becomes "Character #2" if the vigilantes' "vigilante identity" takes a collective dirt nap?

The bases class doesn't, but at least one archetype does. Part of the reason for a full vigilante party is that with archetype you can cover pretty much every role.


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The Mad Comrade wrote:
Vigilantes should do very well. Interesting.

I wonder if I can convince my group to do the all vigilante party for this one.


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Interesting. The Shaonti interest me. The Kami stuff too


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Luthorne wrote:
Verzen wrote:
Will there be any kineticist archetypes?
James Jacobs listed what classes are gaining archetypes here.

Well now I'm buying this.A lot of my favorite classes getting love.


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Why am I not surprised this is dissolving into an argument over preferred pronouns? Paizo has decided that Iseph, like many people, prefer the singular they. Your own "linguistic" beliefs don't matter.

Also not surprised to see people disregarding the obvious lack of gendered pronouns and inserting their own idea of what Iseph's gender is.


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Also we may have no 9th level casters in the core, but that doesn't mean there won't be 9th level casters ever. This could simply be an issue of looking a head and leaving an option open for "bad" bab progression.


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Interesting that Silver Ravens made the list.


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Make it 3, cause I love those splat books.


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More and more interested in Solarions.


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GeneticDrift wrote:
the first 2 books seem to be very land based, book 3 seems mostly land based and we do not know about 5/6 yet. Water is still wilderness and is very appropriate to a wilderness adventure; finding it, crossing it, using it to survive, and finding scimitars in it.

I believe the developers have said that the aquatic books are being released to coincide with Ruins of Azlant. That's a big hint that they consider it aquatic in nature. Not to say wilderness won't help. And I'm hoping for a shifter with aquatic options (either in the base class or as an archetype if needed)


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@The Gold Sovereign: he says seven are in so seems likely.

On the topic at hand: This is awesome. I will adapt this and use it at some point. Cause these are just awesome.


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Isabelle Lee wrote:
jedi8187 wrote:
Blightburn has my attention. Hopefuly it stacks with Kinetic Knight, cause if so I'm making that character.

While that would be amazing, I'm not optimistic. Kinetic knight alters a lot of class features, and it's too new for the blightburner's writer to have had access to the kinetic knight when writing.

It's not impossible... but I wouldn't get too invested in the idea just yet.

I'm not expecting it, but still hopeful (I love the Kinetic Knight cause it lets me play the version of Kineticist I've wanted to since it was first published)


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Blightburn has my attention. Hopefuly it stacks with Kinetic Knight, cause if so I'm making that character.


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I really like these guys. Lashunta were looking like a go to for me besides human, but these guys might give them competition. The culture may not exactly be original, but it still seems fun to play around in. I may just make a Vesk Solarion as my first Starfinder character.


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There's a build using a half-orc vexing daredevil mesmerist that seems fun. Half-Orc racial bonus for extra painful stare damage, feinting as a move action to lower AC, and vital strike to help keep damage up. Plus spells and such.


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I've started playing a Kinetic Knight and I love it. I've wanted to play a kineticist, but don't care for dex based melee characters for whatever reason. I wish I kept some ranged options, even if it made me more mad, but don't mind losing them. The only "problem" is the limited infusions I can take, but that has more to do with not only chooising void as element but also expanding into void again (or maybe going purist) which is a lesser supported element to begin with. And my touch AC, but that's heavy armor for you. Love this, and has quickly risen to one of my favorite builds.


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Isabelle Lee wrote:


...now I just need to find a way to make an alchemical occultist, and we'll have the set. ^_^

My body is ready.


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After first pass, really like this book. Finally have a good melee kineticist option that can viably be strength based. Like the phantom blade surprisingly. While I'm not jumping to play the totemist spiritualtist, there are several campaigns I can think of where I'd be happy to play it. Love panopolies, will be using trappins of the warrior at some point. Also like the Outter Channeler. Haven't looked at all the new spells and feats and what not yet.


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Alex Mack wrote:
Mikko Kallio wrote:
Yep. A ranger with alchemy and/or mutagens is a pretty cool idea, though. :-)
Now all of a sudden you have my attention...

I didn't know I needed this until now


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QuidEst wrote:


Occultist can now be a full BAB class… without taking an archetype.

You have my attention.


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Isabelle Lee wrote:
Ashram wrote:
I take it "less mobile" means no Acrobatics? :(

This is, sadly, the case. Of course, heavy armor would have made that a bit difficult.

jedi8187 wrote:
Kinetic Knight sounds awesome. Is it, or can it be, strength focused over dexterity? Either way still awesome.
Since it focuses heavily on heavy armor, that might be for the best. ^_^

Oh yay! I finally have a kineticist that plays to my type.


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Looks like I have to wait till august since the closest free rpg day store to me is 3 hours away


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I like Aboleths. Don't know why always have. They're why I'm looking forward to this, and hope to get to play it


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Isabelle Lee wrote:
jedi8187 wrote:
Isabele how likely would a feat that gives a kineticist access to their elements other blast be? Say air picking up wind and electric?

Slightly more likely, but still not very. Basic blasts are a very limited-access resource for a kineticist, whereas feats are (comparatively) more plentiful. I find it highly unlikely that something like that would be made available via feat, at least without significant conditions (including, most likely, a level requirement).

** spoiler omitted **

That said, I'm a bit less certain about this one. Perhaps Mr. Seifter will weigh in. ^_^

fires up Seifter Signal

I don't care if there is a level limit. I want to make Storm from the X-men and feel like I need all the air and water blasts.


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Ok after all this: If we fail to reach the bestiary can we just kickstart it? Or patreon it? Just let me throw money at this thing please.


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looking forward to when this thread is not just an arguement over fast healing.


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Of the of the two main I prefer might. I think Prowess as someone suggested, or something similar, works to denote the mundane but still exemplary skill of these characters.


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Hopefully some of the archetypes will play well with the PrC's to have a character with those themes from level 1.

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