I did a few searches on "Malfeshnekor" in this forum and noticed something: what if he's too easy? Ultimately, this thread is about creating a suitable challenge for a group.
Many threads talk about PCs dying because of this enemy. Some groups talk about skipping him or saying he's too hard. While my group isn't comprised of Pathfinder experts, they've been blowing past every challenge I throw at them.
You can skip the backstory and my experience with game difficulty if you wish.
Backstory, group experiences:
My group has gone through "Hollow's Last Hope," "Crown of the Kobold King" and is now about to complete "Burnt Offerings". They're all level 4. I typically award levels after specific accomplishments rather than individual encounters. I'm not sure if it's better than the standard way but it works.
Here is the party (level 4):
Fighter
Ranger
Monk
Rogue
Bard
Druid
Sorcerer
We've had zero deaths, and a total of 3 incidents where anyone dropped into negative HP. We've been playing with a group of 6 for most of it, and had a new player begin playing for our latest session.
I'm aware that these modules are designed for a group of four players. Technically it says four to six, but from experience it's really four.
Here is an example of something I did to increase encounter difficulty (SPOILERS FOR BURNT OFFERINGS):
In the standard fight against Nualia, it's just her and one Yeth Hound. I added an additional Yeth Hound. I also moved Lyrie (level 3 Wizard) into Nualia's room.
Nualia's AC is 15, but I bumped it to 18. When she casts Shield of Faith, this makes it 20. Her +1 bastard sword attack is at +9, but I gave it a bump to +11. I gave her Aura of Cowardice (from the anti-paladin skill list) and extended the range to the whole room.
When one of the Yeth Hounds howled, it panicked almost everyone, leaving only two people in the room. Those two continued fighting regardless. The whole battle turned around as the rest of the party trickled back into the room. I had hoped for a slaughterfest after that hugely successful fear attempt, but they cleared it without a sweat.
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Actual examination of enemy *spoilers*
Post about Malfeshnekor:
We now have Malfeshnekor, which is the "optional boss" of Thistletop. I want him to have a high chance of killing a PC if they decide to enter his room. Even if I can instill a sense of panic and force a retreat, it would be a mission success. I have two reasons for this:
1) The sorcerer in the group uses "detect magic" on pretty much everything out of cautiousness. The magic seal on the door is CL 17. Once they figure that out, they're going to know something bad is behind it.
2) I want to give them a fair warning, and let them know that they take full responsibility for their actions. Perhaps something like "You can detect an immense power behind this door like none you've ever encountered before". I'll figure out the flavor text later, but they'll know what they're getting into. Enticing them to open it anyway should be easy, heh.
So here are Malfeshnekor's strengths:
- 85 HP
I believe this is the highest HP encounter they'll go up against so far. Assuming all 7 players show up, it shouldn't take long to go down.
- DR 10/magic
We have two full casters, and one bard with spells. The monk can spend a ki point to deal magic damage. All of the other melee have +1 weapons to bypass this DR. It's effectively meaningless, unless I misunderstand the rules.
- +10 or more to all saves
I don't foresee my group using too many save-based attacks, but this is pretty solid overall.
- bite +17 (2d6+8) and 2 claws +12 (1d6+4)
His attacks are brutal, but not ultra lethal. Our fighter has AC 23 and over 40 HP. Malfeshnekor gets one attack for every 7 he receives, which might be the biggest issue.
- Blink
The spell description says it adds a 50% miss chance on top of a regular AC check. This might be the biggest hurdle to the party.
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How should I play Malfeshnekor when fighting the group? The module says:
At the beginning, he casts Invisibility Sphere, Bull's Strength and Blink. He casts Rage on the first round.
He prefers melee combat, but saves Crushing Despair and Charm Monster on ranged units who stay outside the room.
I wouldn't be "cheap" and immediately go for the squishiest characters (sorcerer/druid/bard) but I may go for low blows to these PCs if the fight doesn't go well for Malfeshnekor. Aside from this, I would mostly play as written.
Any helpful tips, advice or words of wisdom? Thank you for taking the time to read this!
I'm a cold-turkey DM with a group of newbie players. We've been playing for months but I wanted to clarify some rules. I had to make up some rules on the spot due to my limited understanding.
Sorry for the upcoming wall of text. I've placed both questions in spoiler tags to reduce clutter. Thank you in advance for any input you have!
Question #1:
details:
When I initially read the core rulebook, I misunderstood the rules on standard actions. I saw that there were "standard actions" and "full round actions". Since you can move + attack in one turn, and use both actions for double movement, I thought you could double attack too.
Apparently, double attacks only apply if your base attack is +6 or more. My group has been doing it from level 1. However, you can only make a five-step move after spending your turn to attack twice using our rules. The same rules apply for monsters as well.
My understanding was that each character had two "points," so to speak, and could spend them moving, attacking or both. Same rules apply for spells: a standard action spell can be used twice in a turn, but a full-round one requires the whole turn. A monk still gets 1 extra attack compared to the other classes with Flurry of Blows, too.
Is this completely wrong or game breaking?
A dual-wielding character, such as the rogue in our group, gets to hit with both weapons for a single attack. Each weapon has it's own check against the target's AC, so he could miss with one hand and hit with the other. If he uses both of his "points" to double attack, that means four individual checks against the target's AC. Since daggers typically do 1d4, it doesn't seem too crazy.
Question #2:
details:
I saw a group doing their dice calculations like this:
Perception check for Sample Character
1d20 + perception skill = result vs DC
Let's say it's DC 22. So if his perception was 5, and he got a roll of 19 on the die, it would be:
19 + 5 = 24 vs DC 22
His roll is higher than the DC 22, making it a success.
In our version, though, we do it like this:
1d20 = DC 22 - 5
His perception skill subtracts from the total difficulty. Instead of trying to beat a DC 22, he only has to beat a DC 17 now.
We do it this way for pretty much everything. The only thing that gets a little bit tricky are the fort/ref/will saves, but we've found a reliable method for that. Which way is correct?
This thread contains spoilers for "The Skinsaw Murders".
I'm DMing a group of 6. They'll soon be clearing up "Burnt Offerings" and moving onto "The Skinsaw Murders". My only potential problem with the module are the haunts.
The concept is really cool. I want to implement them into the play session without causing an uproar. The issue is that a PC can die in roughly 2-3 rolls from a haunt. This can theoretically happen in battle, too, but a battle situation feels more concrete.
Ultimately, the situation is this: We're all new to tabletop games and everyone is still using their first characters. I don't know what a PC death is like but I imagine it will be shocking. How much more so if it's from a game mechanic no one has seen before? If I had a character, I would rather die on a critical hit from a dragon than "your character instantly commits suicide." I hope some of you can relate to my fear of anger and feeling of betrayal from the group.
Is there any advice on this? Should I tone down the damage from the haunts? Is there a way I can explain it to the group to avoid backlash?
Thank you for your help and thank you for taking the time to read this.
I use a program called RPGmaker XP to create PC games. However, I realized that the map creation tool can also be used for tabletop gaming. I thought I'd upload two sample maps as an example.
The layout is completely designed by me, but the actual graphics themselves are part of the RPGmaker XP program. It should be fine for public use, since the games created are meant to be shared anyway.
The actual maps I use for the PC game are more complex. I've tried recreating parts of the main dungeon from "Hollow's Last Hope," although it's a bit messy. It wouldn't be possible to do a 1:1 scale using RPGmaker XP, unless someone added a custom grid. This is possible - in theory - but it's beyond the scope of this post.
This thread contains spoilers for the Burnt Offerings quest module.
I've been DMing a group of 6 for several months and have never actually "played" the game. I have a great deal of fun playing hybrid melee/magic monsters and fighting against my party, due to the diversity of the combat.
I came to the conclusion that I could release some creative energy and that desire to play by making a rival team. This team would occasionally harass the party, be one step ahead of them in a quest, have a few brawls, or maybe even team up for a special, desperate end-of-a-quest encounter.
I've already created two NPCs that have interacted with the party and made them quite unhappy (a few lucky rolls in a bar fight coupled with some dwarvish insults). We're going through Rise of the Runelords now and I'm thinking of taking various NPCs from it and adding them to the group.
SPOILERS:
One of the NPCs is Tsuto. He engaged the party and lost, but wasn't killed. He was taken into custody by the local guard, but I could easily change the story and add him to my rival team.
If I ever played the game, I would make a Paladin or a Necromancer. I was thinking of building character sheets for these characters and adding them into the plot. Obviously, I have to be ready to have these NPCs die despite the work I put into them.
Has anyone ever done this before? I ask this for both creating a team of rivals and trying to play through the game rather than being in it. I enjoy being a DM a lot, but having never actually played myself gets me curious.
This will be my first contribution and first monster created for Pathfinder. I currently DM a group of 6 and began "cold turkey", so to speak, a few months ago. I have no previous tabletop experience, so any help is appreciated!
Statistic Explanation:
I gave the Zombie Horde (small) a +1 to initiative over the base initiative of zero - for a single zombie. Since they're working together, it should give them a slight edge. Same thing applies for perception.
AC was increased from 12 to 14, since attacks against the zombies are being dispersed amongst the group. HP was changed from 12 (standard single zombie) to 30 to represent three zombies.
Will save was increased from 3 to 5. I feel that tripling it to 9 would be too overpowered for this monster, even though there are three zombies. I simply added 1 extra will save per zombie.
The "Slam" attack is the standard zombie move, unedited. I added "Swarm" since it's a classic undead assault. The "Consume" attack is only added for the large horde.
Base statistics were increased slightly. Attributes (Str, Dex, etc) were increased by 1 per zombie. Base attack, CMB and CMD were increased to due the horde. It's harder to grab onto a cluster of zombies. I gave the Zombie Horde "Combat Reflexes" since they're similar to a swarm. Passing by it should be met with several outreaching hands/claws attempting to stop the player.
The unique quality of the Frightful Presence ability should be both interesting and not too overpowered.
Human Zombie Horde (small) - CR 3
Medium undead (3 zombies)
Init: +1 Senses: darkvision 60 ft; Perception: +1
Consume: A large zombie horde can begin consuming any creature it swarms over. Against helpless or nauseated targets, a zombie horde deals 6d6 of damage.
*If the total number of zombies are equal to (party size x 3), force the party to roll a Will save from Frightful Presence. A standard party of 4 would need to roll for this save if there are 12 zombies or more (2 large hordes or 4 small hordes). A party of 6 would need to roll for this save if there are 18 zombies or more.
A Zombie horde can occupy a single space or multiple spaces, at the DM's discretion. However, the horde is still treated as a single target.
The spell system can be really confusing. There are two casters in our party: a sorcerer and a druid. The ranger in the group recently hit level 4 and will now have access to spells too.
We're having a hard time calculating who gets what spells and how many times they can cast it.
According to my research, this is what should be available:
Sorcerer level 4 (18 charisma)
6 different level 0 spells
3 different level 1 spells
1 level 2 spell
Each level 1 spell can be cast 6 times
The single level 2 spell can be cast 3 times
The charisma grants an extra spell cast per day for all level 1, 2, 3 and 4 spells. However, she has no access to level 3 or 4 spells.
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Druid level 4 (16 wisdom)
4 different level 0 spells
3 different level 1 spells
2 different level 2 spells
Each spell can be cast based on how many different spells he has?
The wisdom grants an extra spell cast per day for all level 1, 2 and 3 spells.
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What does it mean when a Sorcerer learns her spells and can cast them at any time? This is different from druids who pick their spells on a day to day basis? There is no "spells known" chart for druids which makes things even more confusing. We then have to decipher the differences between "Spells known," "Spells per day" and "Bonus Spells per day".
Now we have a ranger who is going to begin dabbling in spells. We've just been "fudging" things and improvising with our own system. The problem is that each class is different and we can't settle on one rule system.
This is especially strange since the PRD says Rangers can begin casting at level 4, but get 0 1st level spells per day. It doesn't make sense, so I know I'm missing something.
I'm DMing a group of 6 (all level 3) and there is 1 rogue in the group. Rogues have some unique options that can disrupt groups and cause unbalance. I'm trying to find a way to make it work. Here are my problems:
1) Rogues can pickpocket and steal. According to the core rulebook, most rogues can take palm-sized objects without being detected.
What stops a rogue from spending 10 hours stealing gold from every person in a town and becoming rich? What stops a rogue from stealing a valuable item worth 3,000 gold from a shop at level 1? Couldn't a rogue steal a vital quest item and completely bypass entire sections of campaigns?
Stealing mechanics seem so general and so vague. If the target person holding the item would see the rogue, the player could simply say "I wait awhile until he's distracted and then I steal". Eventually the stealing gets out of hand.
2) Rogues have sneak attacks. The rulebook says you can sneak attack when the enemy is flat footed, flanked or otherwise unaware of the rogue's presence. The rogue in the group wants to use his sneak attacks more often.
When the group of 6 players bust into a room, how does the rogue get a sneak attack? Logically, it's not possible for a rogue to just "begin sneaking" once combat starts. There are few scenarios where rogues can get sneak attacks - outside of flanking. I get the feeling that the player using the rogue doesn't feel as useful if he can't use sneak attacks as often.
Throwing in a cluster of D6 for every attack would be too much, so there has to be some kind of balance.
3) How do I help a rogue feel more valuable without breaking the campaign? Even as a "skill monkey," other players are starting to get lots of skill levels and there isn't a clear line anymore.
Hello everyone! I'm a fairly new DM and I've got some questions.
I've only been DMing for maybe 3 months now, never been a player. My first and only group has finished their second module tonight. :D
*this thread may contain spoilers for Crown of the Kobold King*
I'm running with a group of 6 players, all level 3. We've just finished the Crown of the Kobold King module. The classes are as follows:
Druid
Fighter
Monk
Ranger
Rogue
Sorcerer
Question about CR:
Spoiler:
We did the final battle for the module tonight. I created a map on a long piece of grid paper. In-game, it was 135 feet long and 75 feet wide for the main throne room and an additional 30x30 for the sacrificial chamber.
The standard battle is:
King Merlokrep (CR 6)
x2 Bloodscale Kobolds (CR 2)
But I merged the sacrificial chamber with the throne room into one battle, forcing the group to progress past the enemies to stop the sacrifice. I also added a small army of regular kobold warriors to make it interesting. This added the following:
Jekkajak the shaman (CR 5)
x2 Bloodscale Kobolds (CR 2)
And an extra 9 Kobold warriors (CR 1/4 each, roughly 2 CR total)
Then an additional x2 Bloodscale Kobolds as reinforcements after 1d4 rounds (CR 2)
So it was CR 19 with 17 total enemies. According to the Gamemastery guide, my group's APL is 4. If I understand correctly, this battle should have been too difficult to win. I didn't pull any punches, although I did mix up attack targets so that players didn't get focus-fired to death.
There were no player deaths and nobody was knocked out. There were two close calls where players dropped between 1 to 5 HP. Everybody had fun, although it took (literally) 3 hours to complete. Yes, we timed it.
So ultimately the question is: How do I figure out what's too hard and what isn't? I understand that sometimes a hard fight is fun, and easy fights can help players feel confident. However, the actual formula is going over my head.
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Equipment and shops question:
Spoiler:
My group is using standard gear at the moment - basically whatever they were able to get when they made their character. Any loot they've gotten was from the Falcon's Hollow module and now the Crown of the Kobold King module. However, the group needs to spend their gold eventually.
Is there a resource I can look at to figure out how shops work? What determines the potions or scrolls available in town? What about additional weapons/armor? Magical or +1 weapons/armor? Maybe purchasing an enchant for your gear? Aside from the basic necessities of food, water and sleeping, I don't know what options the players have for purchasing items.
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Troublesome players:
Spoiler:
Someone in the group figured out how modules work and began dipping his hand into the cookie jar. He doesn't have the hardcovers or PDFs, so he's mostly just googling and getting bits of information. Half of the information he has is incorrect or misunderstood, but it feels like cheating anyway.
After warning him, my idea is to throw in additional, unexpected challenges. If it continues, I'll amp up the difficulty for his character alone until he's persuaded to stop or at least make it less obvious. When I tell my group "You're unable to discern the details about _____", then the disruptive player chips in with "Actually..." and spoils whatever it was that was supposed to be hidden, it's frustrating.
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Next module question:
Spoiler:
I'm thinking of starting the Rise of the Runelords adventure path. I have some ideas for incorporating the player's back stories into it.
Since we've already begun doing Falcon's Hollow modules, I might toss in "Revenge of the Kobold King" part-way in the Runelords path as a side quest.
Is this a good idea? Should I take the adventure in a different direction? I understand this is more of an opinion question, but I thought I'd ask since an adventure path can take a billion years to finish.
There are several more things to ask, but I'll leave it at this for now. Thank you for your time and patience! Thank you for simply taking the time to read this, even if you haven't posted a reply.
-----SPOILERS-----
This thread contains spoilers for Crown of the Kobold King
-----SPOILERS-----
I'm DMing for a group of 6, who have recently reached level 3 in the Crown of the Kobold King module.
Spoiler:
One character in the group has riding and is capable of handling an animal. He wanted to use a slurk as a mount. I told him it would require 2 days of rations to feed the slurk for a single meal, in order to "balance" it. This would mean it would take roughly 4 days of rations to feed the slurk fully. It might be expensive, but it's essentially an extra character added to the group.
Is this unbalanced? Is slurk riding at level 3 too much? Or maybe it's not a big deal and I've set the maintenance standards too high?
Hey there fellow Pathfinders - it's the DM newbie asking some questions again.
---This thread will contain spoilers for Crown of the Kobold King---
I am currently DMing a group of 6 players. We're all newbies to tabletop RPGs and sometimes we don't progress very quickly. My group is varied and they often conjure up out-of-the-box ideas to deal with problems. This makes things fun but it can also make things go very slowly.
In short, I'm wondering how much progress we should be making in a single play session. We play once a week for 3-4 hours.
We have the following characters, all level 2:
Fighter
Rogue
Monk
Ranger
Druid
Sorcerer
In the Crown of the Kobold King quest module, the group just entered the main dungeon and began exploring it.
Here is how much progress they've made:
Module Details:
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They entered room number 1 which has 4 kobold warriors and 2 kobold slaves. They fought and killed 3 out of 4 warriors, and used charm person on the remaining one. They took the slaves and put the dead kobold warrior's armor on them.
They sent one kobold slave into room number 2, which had a grick inside. The kobold died. The group investigated the room and promptly left once they found out about the grick's dr/magic. It was eating a kobold, so there was no combat.
They progressed north to room 3, fought the shocker lizards inside and won. The rogue detected a trap in the next room, so they sent the charmed kobold warrior into the room. It died. The ranger tried to disarm the trap room and failed, taking damage and triggering the trap. The rogue attempted to disarm it (with help) and succeeded.
They entered room 8 which housed an allip. They fought and won. Jeva, the werewolf NPC, had to pee and convinced the group to wait in the trap room. Two of our female players stayed with Jeva to keep her safe, which resulted in them fighting the werewolf. They won the fight, although one of our girls (the sorcerer) was brought to -1 HP during the fight. Not a big deal, everyone healed up and prepared for what was ahead. Then the session ended.
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The group ultimately cleared 6 rooms out of 33, and won 4 battles.
The crew usually discusses things a lot before making decisions. Tonight, I accidentally scared the party into thinking they would die... after I told them I wasn't going easy on them and explained the death mechanics of Pathfinder. Although I enjoy watching them solve problems, it just slowed down the progress even more.
I occasionally try to prod the group to make a decision, but I realize that discussing the game gets people involved. I don't want to interfere with their strategy. However, if one play session clears 6 rooms then it will take over a month to finish the rest of this module.
What would you recommend? Thank you for reading this, and thank you for being patient with a new DM.
I first want to say that I'm enjoying Pathfinder and the community here, even though this is my first post. I'm also a complete newbie to both DMing and tabletop RPGs in general. Thank you for taking the time to read this thread.
Please feel free to skip ahead if you don't want to read the backstory.
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My group is 3 men, 3 women. It creates some interesting team dynamics.
As a brief backstory, I started DMing "cold turkey" roughly two months ago. I had a handful of friends that were always interested in tabletop gaming and the consensus was that I would be the best for DM duties. I bought a few sets of dice and I began studying the core rulebook. My group has progressed from the beginner Falcon's Hollow disease module to the Crown of the Kobold King.
Nobody at the group has had any experience with any tabletop RPGs.
We set up our first day with the game and could barely begin playing. It took literally 4 hours for everyone to make their characters, with one person using a computer and the others juggling a laptop with the Paizo website. Even though I knew the basics for creating characters, it's still a time consuming process when everyone else does not.
I haven't strayed too far from the formulas of the quest modules, although I did experiment with one game session. It consisted entirely of custom content I created and went really well. I don't plan on doing that too often, since it takes so long to set it up... on top of figuring out the basic rules. I could type all day, but I'll get to the more important things.
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*potential Crown of the Kobold King spoilers*
My group consists of the following members (all level 2):
Fighter
Monk
Rogue
Ranger
Druid
Sorcerer
They're coming up on two enemies with DR/Magic. One is the giant slug creature, and the other is a gargoyle. I don't know if our two casters can handle it, and I think the Fighter has a +1 weapon (which can hit magically because it's +1?). The Vargouille might clean house too, with it's disease. The forgespurned has a +10 on his chain-of-death, which can oneshot most of the group on a cluster of high rolls. Should I nerf these?
Speaking of nerfing, how do you guys deal with death? I want to provide a challenge with the occasional risk of death without killing people. A TPK would also be horrible, since we don't have the experience to simply cook up another character on the fly. The night where a character dies is going to be a traumatic one.
I don't know the rules, but I was thinking of possible resurrections in town depending on the condition of the corpse. Maybe a formula of 1000 + character level x 100 = gold cost for resurrection. This means a level 5 character would need 1500 gold to be brought back. I want the cost to be large enough to ensure people don't suicide due to cheap res costs.
On the topic of keeping people interested, how would you guys do it? Everyone is having a great time, but occasionally I hear "I wish I didn't take this skill..." or "I feel useless" because the quests don't use the options they chose. The people who specialized in really common things like Perception are getting way more out of the game than people who invested in Swim. Yay, Swim... Woooo....
I have so many stories I could type, and lots of little questions... but I'll leave it at this for now.
