Lascer, Lord of the Shadow Shoal

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Sorry if it's been brought up already, but the talents in the statblocks of sample characters needs another pass. In a majority of cases it's a minor issue where the talent listed doesn't quite match its actual name. For example, the armiger Justyna has Barrage's Vigilante Sharpshooter and Lancer's Opportune Impale, where it should be Impalement, while the blacksmith Blake has Beserker's Leg-Breaker vs. Leg-Smasher.

In other cases it's a little more confusing, where the talent harks back to a name from the playtests: the conscript Aira has Fencing's Create Opening which, I remember digging through the copies I had made of the playtest materials in my trash bin and finding out what its new name was, but it has no obvious reference by which to figure it out.


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Sent, and my GF dropped one in too! Good thing I double checked those contest rules; almost added an SLA from Ultimate Intrigue, whiiich is not yet on the PRD. Thanks for hosting this contest and in advance for judging our submissions!


Thanks for the responses guys. N. Jolly, that's probably what I'm going to recommend, and holy crap the term space punk never occurred to me but that's exactly what it is. My GF is using this game as her first trial run of world(s?)-building but I agree, the setting is very cool and I plan to make use of it at some point.

JiCi, while I can appreciate that angle, the holes in the game do seem a bit glaring... people were trying to judge it before it was release, based on previews only, but now is exactly the time to be judging it in my humble opinion. Though like I said, my view was based more on what others are saying about it, as I was at a wedding all this last weekend and then got sick, so I've had no chance to try to digest the book properly. (Also... don't know how the 'mechs discussion came about, because I didn't bring it up... that's not to say I'm uninterested though...) But yeah, I really like the direction that Starfinder took the design, but it seems short on polish.

Robert, thanks so much for poppin' in! That's very helpful, and a nice teaser of things to come, too. I certainly look forward to running a game or two of Aethera myself someday. :-)


My girlfriend's looking to start up a homebrew space fantasy campaign when our run of the Emerald Spire concludes, and I'm hoping to hear people's thoughts regarding the various available rule systems for spaceship combat and travel. I don't know the specific of elements she's looking to include, but she's certainly leaning more towards 'fantasy, but in space' as opposed to 'sci-fi with wizards,' if that makes sense. The Big Three seem to be Starfinder, Starjammer, and Aethera, and as I've got a bit more time than she does to pore over rulebooks, I've already developed some impressions as I help her decide which direction to go, but having done no playtesting and very little theorycrafting, I'm hoping we can find more guidance here. Here's what I've gleaned so far.

• STARJAMMER: The feeling of Starjammer is the best for what we're trying to do, but a lot of the rule elements feel to sparse (designing customs hulls, available weapons or engines) and while I like that ships and components have GP values, it doesn't adhere closely to the WBL chart, has strange assumptions built into it, and overall offers little guidance on how to balance ship encounters well. I'm not so confident on the combat rules being as well designed as the other options, and I also think the element of "each ship component is magical and doesn't require external power' veers to far off of the flavor of Space Fantasy we're looking for. On the plus side again though, Starfinder compatibility is coming to Starjammer very soon and these biggest complaints might be cleaned up within that system.

• STARFINDER: Very thorough and complete rules, with a lot of thought put into the options even if they are a little off our target thematically. I admittedly have had little time to leaf through the book myself so this is more hearsay, but the math seems pretty poor (anyone following has heard about the DC 70 problem) and some maneuvers are noted as redundant. I also don't like that ships are entirely divorced from player wealth, and it seems a lot of flexibility is lost to make balance super easily (no rules for an NPC crew, tier is always equal to APL, ships DON'T become easier to use the better and higher level you are, ships rely on tier for piloting maneuvers much more than physics, etc.). Also, would require some amount of conversion to use with Pathfinder characters.

• AETHERA: This is probably my favorite of the bunch: space fantasy flavor with power requirements, ships have a financial cost but also CRs for easy balancing, and the combat rules offer players a lot of agency, and yet seem to have had the fat trimmed from them. I do have a couple gripes though: the selection of hull options is a bit limited compared to the other two and there aren't any guidelines for creating your own, as well as within the hulls you are locked to placing equipement in 'hardpoint slots', which is only compounds the frustrations found with limited hulls. The other problem is that Aethera ships do not have any guidelines for FTL travel (as the campaign setting is an inescapable star system) and I wouldn't know where to begin getting that right.

.

So what are everyone's thoughts? Anyone see a genius way to hack the best pieces of each together? Should we just bite the bullet on Aethera and add what we need, or see if some homebrew fixes to Starfinder's odd design choices crop up in the next month or two?


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@The Xiao: I think EZG is on the money regarding the Kinetic Shinobi if you try to bring it in with only Paizo material. However, given the reincarnation conceit of the setting, I could see a character coming to the conclusion that 'flesh is cheap' and utilizing the Viscera element from the Kineticists of Porphyra line. Thinking along this same guideline, the Mind Element from Legendary Kineticists would work too. They'd both be hard pressed to be anything outside of the anti-hero trope believably (especially if the Mind element has possession tricks, but I'm not at my laptop and don't remember off the top of my head), but if you're into that, I believe this is the ticket.


Cool. FYI, last week and this week, I've been pulling 70 hours a week, so I'm still struggling on posts. Hoping next week will be better.


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Understandable regarding the expansion suggestion. It's definitely outside of the realm of normal Pathfinder play. It mostly came from the fact I love Pathfinder for it's staggering options, yet I also find a lot of things in other RPGs that look neat and like to find ways to incorporate that into my PF games rather than convincing people to try a new system. Thanks for the response!


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This is awesome... Like, as someone whose not played 4E but is familiar with the concept, the title undersells it honestly. I can't think of the last time I was so floored by a PF-compatible product. Bravo! So to answer your questions...

1) Right now, I'm loving Verbal Duels: with the plethora of tactics and the interactions, it's *very* reminiscent of Burning Wheel's Duel of Wits...

2) ...which leads me to say, "Hey, you know what'd be great? Some guidelines for creating and adjudicating verbals duels between PCs." Pathfinder isn't a PvP game, but it'd be a boon for those groups that want RP encounters between their characters to both carry more in-game weight and to not just don't boil down to 'the pushiest player's ideas win.' My thoughts got kind of long, so I dropped it a spoiler.

Spoiler:
If you're (somehow, given the design) unfamiliar with Duel of Wits, the two participants agree on stakes (what each side gets if they win), and then it plays out like a no-audience, double-blind Verbal Duel with the momentum quality. The victor gets what they want, but they have to offer a compromise, and the more momentum they lost, the bigger the compromise. Now, this works well for BW in part because characters have a few flavors of hero points based around how they interact with their beliefs and goals, which encourages players to work it out in-character because even the loser benefits. A combination of XP or hero points could work to this goal, but there's likely better mechanics to play with to play with.

It also works because the result is mechanically binding, and the same four considerations would be required for Pathfinder: namely, that both players consent to the duel, that they understand that the result would be mechanically binding (possibly with a mundane geas analogue), that the stakes are specific enough as to not be debilitating (like, perhaps the Paladin's stakes are "The rogue will not steal from the citizens of Ustalav," allowing the rogue the freedom to pilfer from merchants, caravans, and other adventuring groups passing through the area, or any who are not legal citizens of the land) and that not direct opposites of each other (if they are, that leaves the winner no room to both get what they want for winning and also offer the loser a compromise). It'd take a bit of doing, but I'd love to see what comparable system you might accomplish.

Phew, now that we got that out of the way, couple things I've noted in that same section:
- Pg. 66: Between the Special Actions header and the Discover Biases subheader, the paragraph references 'chases' rather than 'verbal duels.
- Pg. 69, 70: The Presence and Wit tactics both reference a 'determination' statistic that appears to be left over from an earlier draft, as a quick word find didn't reveal 'determination' anywhere else in the document.


While I do not own the PDF in question, Air0r, I read that line of text to pertain specifically to true dragons according to this table. If that differs from the progression of the dragon class, I'd think it still means to say that you retain natural attacks that you *would* have once you are that size. So according to the linked table, if you polymorph to Medium size as a Tiny black dragon, you'd retain bite and claws, as a Medium dragon has those attacks. By contrast, if you're a Large dragon taking a Medium form, you lose use of tail slap, since Medium dragons don't get one.

If I'm way off base, then oops and I'm sure a dev will correct me, but that was my take based on what you provided.


It is pretty heavily focused on the elements, and I didn't find any change shape talents or anything - there is the 1st level ability to shape matter into images (such as writing words with fire). For what you're looking for Silvercat, I'd probably say pass on this one.


Yup! Was pretty fun, thanks Choon and others. Depending on the context of another game, I could be interested, so hit me up. This one I enjoyed, but I don't think your GMing style meshed with what my goal with joining the game was - wanted to tool around with builds a bit, found myself handling narration and ad-hocing a bit more than I expected. In another game though, different mindset? I'd be way down.

Until next time, friends!


Ohhh, I like that much better. Spheres of Combat certainly works, but the problem with it is it sounds like the first name that popped into Adam's head - a WIP name that no one ever got around to improving. Spheres of Might has just the right twist on the connotation that it instantly calls to mind SoP, while, as you say, conveying the martial focus. It's got my vote.

Edit - CalethosVB wrote:
...content with the content.

Niiice.


From the sounds of it, the thematic aspect of this is largely handled by how you mix and match your spheres, but I am curious if there's any kind of mechanical analogue for casting traditions in the system - if so, what kind of benefits can be gleaned from it given that we're not working with the point-based resource system?

I'm super pumped for this, in any case - you can count me among the eager, waiting to back!


Ahh, so there is a Greater Determination talent. I didn't expressly go in search of it, but it wasn't mentioned by True Determination and didn't remember seeing it. Cool, thanks for the quick response.


Kudos! This is very cool, and makes me, someone who'd never want to play a fighter... play a fighter! There's one ability where something seems to have been lost in translation; can't figure out what True Determination is trying to get at in the first sentence.

True Determination (Ex) wrote:
The fighter adds panicked and petrified to the list of conditions that he can suppress using the determination advanced weapon training option: bleed, blind, confused, cowering, deafened, exhausted, frightened, nauseated, paralyzed, or stunned.

Does a fighter with True Determination get to use Determination against all of these abilities: bleed, blind, confused, cowering, deafened, exhausted, frightened, nauseated, panicked, paralyzed, petrified, or stunned? Or what was the intention here?


Ahh neat - I still probably couldn't pull that many off though. Thanks to my aforementioned ADHD, I'm effectivly incapable of deciding what I'm going to say before I say it, and it applies to text too. I rewrite posts about 30 times before posting them, because I have to "think" in the box to keep it coherent. It's worth it, but it takes a lot of time. :-P

I am aware of Divine Source at Tier 3, and I have purchased the Mythic Hero's Handbook in light of joining this game... but I wouldn't say I have a development plan. I don't really do 'builds,' at least not in the sense of planning my levels/tiers from start to finish. Normally (aka, in my non-mythic games), I play the character for a couple of levels, see what's working and what isn't, and over that first bit of gameplay form a plan for down the road. Even then though, I don't think I'm ever looking past two or three levels unless its "I want this feat someday, what are it's prereqs?"


Crossovers are cool, and this idea is especially neat. And as far as the wait... *shrug* not a big deal, I'm pretty patient. I'm keeping my eye on the story's progress and I don't have much to chat about... unless you guys want to know personal stuff about me outside of what you already know? Which I'm not a private person by any stretch, so feel free to ask me literally anything.

Though I am curious, Rednal, do you have any current real-time games that you play in or GM? Gotta wonder since you're so active on the boards. I know Ashe does one on Sundays on Roll20, and I generally have 1-2 per week that I usually GM (Monday's switch off - one week, I'm a player in my GF's Emerald Spire game, the next I'm running Dungeon World)... though that's been way down as of late. You guys play any other tabletop RPGs besides Pathfinder? Also, Rednal, are you from the US, or...?


Sounds good! Better I'm waiting on you than the other way around. :-P


Burkhardt alias now includes a background at the very bottom, and I've got quick bars set up for both. Am I missing anything?


Yeah, I know I'm going to run out sooner or later. I was just going to do that "on demand/when I feel like it" basis. I've accepted handling it as-is because as you say, I've got many more levels to go. It's going to be unrealistic to have everything written twice in there sooner or later. Unless that's a subtle hint that YOU would like it trimmed, of course.


Version 1.02 (Release)

REQUIREMENTS
The Master of Forms Hero Lab package requires the core Pathfinder Hero Lab data package.

SUPPORT
Problems, questions, or concerns? Send us an email at interjectiongames@gmail.com, or contact the coder directly via the Master of Forms support thread on the official Hero Lab Pathfinder forums at http://forums.wolflair.com

VERSION HISTORY

  • [10/03/2016] v1.02 - Initial Release. Adjusted Forms description to include reference to the Master of Forms PDF, as the use of Forms is ‘assumed knowledge.’
  • [08/27/2016] v1.01 - Master of Forms no longer gets all Knowledge skills as class skills.
  • [08/24/2016] v1.00 - Includes adjustments for the effects of Aquatic Triad, Cumulative Exposure, Ensnaring Strike, Growing Inferno, and Scour Away. Also includes a gear item for poisons created with Nature's Specious Gift.
  • [05/25/2016] v0.10 - Closed Beta. Access to all class abilities & feats that become available at 1st level which scale with level.


Now available on OBS, Interjection Games is proud to present:
The Master of Forms for Hero Lab
"Bend" the elements to your will!

The classical monk perfects himself through discipline and sheer force of will, turning his body into a lethal temple of the self. Of course, there's always more than one way to train a martial artist. Viewing such a path as narcissistic and sadly limited in its scope, the masters of forms seek both to understand their own limits, as well as the nature of the primal elements themselves. Harmony is not a fortress standing alone in the wastes; harmony is digging one's toes into the earth and feeling a sense of belonging. Only by reaching out and learning how to mimic the rich weave of the world itself can this true harmony be found.

CLASS STATS

  • Difficulty to Play (1-5): 3
  • Difficulty to Build (1-5): 2
  • Role: Full BAB "element-bending" monk
  • Playstyle: "Combo point/maneuvers" martial artist
PRODUCT FEATURES
  • Files for the Hero Lab character-creation program, covering both The Master of Forms and Master of Forms Expanded: Shadow and Darkness
  • Master of Forms Base Class
  • Archetypes
  • 12 Secret Arts
  • Well over 100 Forms in 8 primal elements (Darkness, Earth, Fire, Ice, Lightning, Shadow, Universal, Wind)
  • Stances system that rewards repeated use of a single element
  • Favored Class Bonuses for all core classes and many featured races
Hero Lab® and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at http://www.wolflair.com


Alright, pretty close to finalizing a build; I've decided to ditch the Unchained Summoner with Aligned Animal because A) there are no special exceptions to allow the aligned animal to grab the Trip evolution, which is kinda core to the wolf/dog thing, and B) it would not even come close to keeping up in a fight. Therefore, I'm going SoP summoner instead. Couple questions now though.

First Question: Am I correct in my reading of it that under SoP rules, my eidolon would be sent back to its home plane at 0 hp rather than at negative Con score? I had planned on taking the Summoner Mythic Eidolon Class Feature in place of an ability, but at this point that would only grant the eidolon Hard To Kill, which is useless if it doesn't stick around to get negative HP.

Second Question: For purposes of the SR gained from the Resolute template, how should I calculate my Challenge Rating?


No change. :-\


I know everyone's pointed the multiple copies problem already and pointed out the version #, but I thought a screencap could help illustrate what the issue is, exactly.


Yup! A little more oomph is all I'm after. Cool, thanks. :-P


Still working on the build, but I'm not going to have it done this week - had some crap going on in my personal life that's sucking my energy, and heading up north for a wedding this Friday.

Question: Magical Knack (magical trait) gives you a +2 trait bonus to CL as long as it doesn't exceeed your hit die. I'm taking the Advanced and Resolute templates on my summoner third, meaning that I'm sitting at summoner level 2, so I was thinking of boosting my CL with this. Does this work to my benefit? I just want to make sure because "within" that section of the tristalt, my HD would only be 2, but putting it all together it my HD is 4.


Yup, Necromancer's of the Northwest have a few others too, and Paranormal Adventures under the Everyman Gaming label added a bunch (probably my favs of any)! In addition to what others have mentioned, the Spheres of Power core book and its expansions have been adding incantations for use under its magic system that could easily be repurposed as occult rituals. Hope that helps!


Yeah, I was hoping to let that other game wrap-up first, but the GM is still gone on his out-of-the-blue two week hunting trip, and he's super spotty even when he's around. For that same reason though... I'm sure I can handle starting up here sooner - whatever's easiest for you. I'll build for level 4 tier 2 then, and ping you when that's ready - busy weekend coming up for me, so I'll probably have something to show next week then. :-)


Alright, I will do that!

Yup, what I thought. I could see where you saw that angle, but it was going to be for picking out the best possible deal, for both parties. That might be Wisdom though, thinking about it a little more. Always having to separate what I call intelligence IRL from what it means as a game mechanic...*sigh* No other templates jump out at me in a particularly interesting way, so expect Resolute & Advanced.

Aaand we missed one question again: based on my planned join time, Level 5, Tier 2?


Well, related to the question, Cunning Creature (from 101 Not So Simple Monster Templates by Rite Publishing) seemed like a good fit but maybe too much cheese: +1 CR, +8 Intelligence, add INT mod as insight bonus to AC, CMD, and saves, and then as a 1/day SLA, use any divination spell of level equal 1/2 my HD or lower. I'm also looking at Resolute Creature, and I'm also not quite done looking at my options yet. :-)

Good to know on spirits, and I'm sure I'll have enough to keep track of starting out that I'll survive with the eidolon. :-P I'm still planning on not joining until a convenient story time at the end of the current module, so should I plan on building at level 5, tier 2?

And I will take the non-answer about wealth as a yes, 200 gp. :-)


Regarding templates: would you like me to steer clear of ones with big attribute boosts if I'm also adding the advanced template? Seeing a couple I like that then also kick another stat by +8, which would be total +12 after point-buy.

Regarding pact magic & WBL: Do I start with any extra spirits known? I know don't gain spirits automatically from level, but learn spirits through study or gnostic tomes. I don't recall any guidance for what to do for pact magic characters starting above 1st-level though. Also, will I use the '200 gp worth of stuff' for starting out?


Sure, didn't know I was stepping on Mephis-toes, and I wasn't sure how much pre-story sway to take. I'm only as saavy with Golarion-lore as I need to be at any time. I can dial back the backstory no problem - I didn't go poking through the recruitment thread and find Hadran's story, and I don't recall seeing it in the alias, so I wasn't sure what to take as a baseline, and figured since Aer'Besethir was a deity-kid that I'd work that angle as well. I had gotten the impression that I should have a tie to SOME deity, but I must've been mistaken. I'll work from this bit then then (probably move that dog-thing chronologically and to front and center), and fill it in around that.

Background Basis:
Thereafter, Burkhardt went forth to find his place in the plane of Law. He was a deal-maker - his agreements were predicated on trust and taken in good faith, never taking pen to page. In time, he learned he could make deals with nearly anything: he made deals with the universe daily, offering his talents to the universe as it offered services in return. To the chagrin of other deities, he even creates pacts with the occult spirits trapped outside of the universe, offering them a taste of the real for their own unique powers.
Once cemented in his place as the god of Pacts and Promises, there was but one thing left unfulfilled, and in the moment he thought of it, it appeared before him: Erstehund. Erstehund was the first creature that was truly a dog, not a wolf, and it was she who forged that pact with ancient man. In that time, all seemed well for him and his place in the pantheon, but it didn’t last long…

Other than that, do the mechanical bits look good to go ahead with? I had forgotten that the only reason for being LN was to have a LE eidolon... now that I'd have a LN eidolon, I'm actually going to go with LG. Would you also like me to PM you the details of an aligned animal eidolon?


Alright, here's the planned build and backstory for Burkhardt, God of Pacts and Promises. I couldn't ever get the other concept to work quite like I wanted to, so this will be the starting point of the character I bring in. As soon as I get your go ahead Rednal, I'll build him for real. :-)


Yup! Not my idea, just liked it.

Cool, I'll work in something else for the eidolon then - despite being 'bound to my will,' it's true that that's not a good enough reason for Hadran to not wreck it anyway. Hell, he might hijack the whole campaign to track the thing down in Hell and kill it for good! :-P

I'm not TOO concerned with its survivability compared to other pets since usually eidolons aren't outright killed in combats, but I had planned on focusing a little bit of my mythic stuff to keep it viable in fights.


Well, I think pacts & agreements are a little different from contracts - like I take contracts as dictated and enforced by law, whereas pacts and agreements feels more honor-based. Besides...

GM Rednal wrote:
This would basically be a Deity of Pacts and Agreements sort of character.

...I'm running with his suggestion. ;-) I think other words that may be used to better fit the portfolio are Bargains, Promises, or Pledges.

As for the angle, I'm thinking that perhaps Asmodeus sired me to be his servant, but for reasons I haven't pinned down yet, that didn't pan out.


Getting close to having two new concepts to present, but I want to check in before I go further with this other concept. Since we've seen a devil-antagonist in this game so far, would it be a bad fit for the God of Pacts & Agreements to take a Devil Eidolon for an Unchained Summoner? I like the idea that this god is so good at deals that not only has he flipped the script on a devil, but that the contract is written well enough that even when erased from the memory of the multiverse... this devil is still bound to his will. This same concept I feel also works well for the child of Asmodeus backstory, but for similar reasons, I also want to ask if this would be a good fit.

To be clear, this god would be Lawful Neutral, and isn't planned as an antihero walking-the-line-between-good-and-evil type. Rather, it's that in both cases, these choices seem like the best-fit for who the god is and what they represent.


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Thanks again for the glowing review, End!


Right, was just spitballing. Brigh also has time in her portfolio, but that's more clocks & science. Cool, I'll bounce between those ideas then, I think. Thanks for the help y'all.


Appreciate the input, Hadran. I usually like to work mechanics first, then figure out the fluff, but my favorite character I've played/am playing was figured the other way... even if that 'fluff' started as a dumb joke. Probably worth it to break out of my mold a bit.

As for your addendums Rednal, both things I had in mind going into it, but the reminders are helpful! You know, since I get carried away and forget to look back at the build rules and all... :-)

The other themes I'm playing with (besides Pacts & Deals, which is pretty cool actually), then, are a deity of Artifice and Enchantment or a deity of Time & Inheritance. Am I stepping on any secret god toes with either of those? :-P


Hmm, that's a way to angle it. I had considered a Pact... err, whatever the official name for the class is now (previously occultist) - I was a backer, so I've got the book. And if the classes sound similar in flavor, well, Alexander Augunas creates everything under the Everyman Gaming label, including the source that the Vessel is from. I do like this 'Pacts and Agreements' portfolio, though. I shall do some thinking, and get back to you.


Damn, I really liked #2 - oh well. #1 can drop the dragon & dragon paragon - kinda forgot about featured races only when running with that concept (though I thought Midfoviing + new dragon would be an interesting interaction). That mostly came from 'wow, I miss dragon gods being a big thing. That should be a big thing again!' but you make a fair point, and like I said, it slipped my mind. TBH, I struggle cuz I don't care for most full BAB classes when I'm in the player's seat. Although I'm giving the system a try with both Aleksson & Hadran's character in my campaign, I'm not sure I care that much for PoW (feels weirdly rigid and rocket-taggy sometimes) and otherwise I hate digging through feats (I'm certain I've fallen asleep while doing it before). Part of the Paragon's appeal was a self-contained concept that worked, but I digress. Would a bloodrager with a bloodline from The Big Book of Bloodlines work? Especially if I stay out of 'dragon' territory? :-P

Also, good to know Advanced talents are out. I had already planned on the simple advanced template, or something with similar stat boosts that might be a closer thematic fit. As far as the d20PFSRD preference, is that related to the ease of new tab + google search being faster than digging up a PDF, then? I know enough html to get by and could possibly contact John about volunteering a little bit on the site (it's something I've been considering for a while, regardless). Again, small investment, big payoff.

Things about me it could help to know:
Perhaps unnecessary and/or oversharing, but this may help you get in my headspace. Part of why I pick at the more mechanically complex or out-there classes is because I suffer from ADHD (inattentive type, formerly referred to as just 'ADD'). I love playing things that are complex, but get bored to tears if the building process gets too involved (see feats, above, and also choosing spells a la Vancian magic). If it gets annoying to pick through everything I throw at you, I'm genuinely sorry for that, but I need to pick something that gives me a lot of pieces to fiddle with or I'll start to hate the character - it's happened before in my RL games. The good news is that RPGs have been for a long time something I can focus on - so as long as I overcome that hurdle, I really can't see any reason I would drop from this game before its conclusion other than death, disfigurement, imprisonment, or global catastrophe. :-D

With that in mind, the part of #2 that I'm most attached to is the Vessel class. I'd keep the archetype because it seems weird for a god/former god to be possessed, but if I otherwise changed the rest of the build and portfolio concept, is that something we can work with - given again that I'd put in the effort of making sure that referencing the class is not an extra burden for you to GM?


@ GM Rednal
Excellent - I figured as much, but wanted to make sure. Below are my first two takes on concepts for characters and their builds. These don't factor in any dipping or templates that I may want to do, but just the core concepts for each section of the 'stalt, as well as some baseline thoughts for origin and roleplaying. Don't mind the 4th page, that's just my scratchpad for other ideas. I draw heavily from 3PP sources for these two builds, so any non-Paizo sourced components are linked to d20PFSRD.com when possible, or to the product page when not. I have an idea of what lives in your library, Rednal, but for anything that I am unsure that you'd have access to, I also made comments on the doc explaining the gist of that component.

As for things that you don't have? I'm more than willing to piecemeal share the relevant pages for purposes of letting you look over them and then, if they get the seal approval, gift them to you at the RPG PDF vendor of your choice. That was part of my reason for checking in on how far the campaign goes. If the only barrier that prevents me from incorporating XYZ into my build is the fact that you don't own it (rather than because you dislike it thematically/mechanically), well... dropping $10-$20 seems like a no-brainer when there's years of gameplay to be had. I've certainly paid more for Steam games that are just collecting digital dust. :-X Let me know your thoughts!

Forgotten Gods Character Ideas

@ Hadran
I was imagining it more like this, but tom-ay-to, tom-ah-to. :-P
As you'll be the only other player, you're welcome to look over these two and give me thoughts on which one you'd be more excited to roleplay and regain divinity with! You know me, I love feedback.


My IRL & PbP games have been a little slow, so I've had time to play around with some ideas and catch up on the story so far (@ pg. 30, currently). Definitely looks cool, and yeah, I'm way into it. While I'm refining a couple character concepts, I don't know if I saw it stated explicitly so I'm asking: What's the intended endpoint for this campaign? Level 20, Tier 10?


Awesome. Also, thanks for thinking of me Ashe, and good luck with the storm again. Just got the notification from the Weather Channel app that it's a full blown-hurricane now. D-:


Got the PM from Ashe - figured I'd pop my head in and say hey.

I'll let you both know I'm tenatively interested. I've given myself a personal limit of 3 PbP games that I'll be a part of at anytime, lest I get obsessive (as I tend to :-P) and let real life suffer. Right now, I am currently at that limit - the Midgard Northlands game I run that Ashe mentioned, the Jade Regent game you both see me in, and then a third that is a war-of-the-city-states build-tester/character-killer game. That third game is not meant to be a permanent affair then, but we did just start another battle so it'll be a little while before I have a chance to rotate out. I also had intended on my 'third slot' remaining an opportunity for short-term pick me up games.

That said, that third-game rotation has off-and-on been more trouble than it's worth, and having never played mythic or tristalt, I am very much interested in this. I also may have creeped these games once or twice in the past, so while I haven't time to read up much now, I remember the gist of it. Given that I'm still caught up in a third game, and also in the process of bringing a new-to-Pathfinder friend aboard the game I run, you two should continue on with as-is for now. If you're amenable to it though, I'd have a chance to give a serious look at it in the next month or two. Sound good?


Thanks for the tip, Rednal! Even outside of it being a good practice to handle code projects, I know myself well enough to identify that the balance of easy and hard is the best way to keep up momentum.

Hmm, I had convinced myself that the antipodist to be more of a challenge than I now think it would be - and the edgewalker and edgeblade wouldn't be too different from the master of forms. Consider that on the table, then. Runesmith would take similar efforts that I'm handling with Strange Magic - not nearly as much and in the end, it'd probably be pretty easy, but still not a great choice for a concurrent project. I had planned on working a bit closer to RAW and running with less clarification regardless of what I tackle next... but the tinker certainly LOOKS unwieldy if nothing else, and that might not be practical.


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Hey all! My name's Bennett Selchow, a Hero Lab coder working with Interjection Games, and I'm excited to announce that we will be releasing a Hero Lab data package for The Master of Forms (and its expansion!) in the very near future. While Brad puts together the legal and other finishing touches on his end, I wanted to start trawling for a public opinion on what our next release should be.

Now before anyone says it: the next release will NOT be Strange Magic. That is planned down the road, but there are some complex components that I will need to work out before that really gets under way. Instead, I plan to develop this other project at the same time that I prepare for SM, so that when I get sick of beating my head against the difficult stuff, I can work on something that provides myself a visible progress bar. :-)

With that in mind, I've got a few good candidates for this secondary project.

  • The Big Book of Bloodlines: This one sits at the top of my personal list because it's a Kickstarter-backed, meaty project that will be easy enough to work on, and because well... the sorcerer will always be my first love. This could also include IG's other bloodline expansions.
  • The Class Expansions Collection: Though known for his base classes, Brad has developed a number of small PDFs that build on the classes released by Paizo. This one would be a fairly quick and easy to complete, though if you're in love with the idea you'll have to convince me of its popularity.
  • The Tinker Collection: Interjection Games's original success story, the Tinker remains popular enough to get new mini-expansions year after year, and this would include everything released for the Tinker so far. I'll own up to a little hesitation with this idea, for I fear there may be hurdles similar to the ones I'll encounter with Strange Magic, but I'm entertaining the idea regardless, so I've included it.
There are other base classes that would be fairly easy to work on as well, such as the Assassin, Animist, Gadgeteer, and Sanguine Disciple. Ultimately, the opinions offered here will only be part of my decision process, but if I didn't care, I wouldn't be asking. :-P

What do we think?


Good to know. BAB for WIS sounded ridiculous, but I couldn't guess at anything else it was meant to do. ;-) Thanks for the quick response!


Hmm, so just noticed this. What is the Psychological Defense feat meant to do exactly? Psy DC is 10 + HD + WIS mod, and this feat allows you to substitute BAB for HD? No one gets a BAB that exceeds their hit dice, so what is it suppose to do? Sub BAB for WIS or something?

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