[Everyman Gaming LLC] Announcing Everyman Unchained: Fighters!


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Alexander Augunas wrote:


To be quite honest, I don't particularly care for the Tier system. Its a biased metric that favors ability to "solve problems" over everything else that characters do in our game. Because of how it functions, you basically can't be Tier 1 without being a prepared spellcaster, when prepared spellcasters have plenty of downsides and weaknesses that balance them against fighters, rogues, et all from a design perspective.

Other than the ability to solve problems and overcome various types of challenges, how would you rate the relative capabilities of classes then? What "everything else" do you mean? Classes provide mechanics to interact with the rest of the game, and should be relatively equal at all levels. Roleplaying can be somewhat divorced from mechanics, but often still needs that structure to back it up. And yes, casters have the drawback of a smaller HD, but also far more options to avoid being hit, more options to bypass AC and HP entirely, mobility to easily escape or pursue martials, etc.

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Luthorne wrote:

Hmm, might there be a feat, magic item, or other option that allows you to potentially boost how many temporary hit points second wind gives you, makes it actual healing, and/or potentially even lets you remove, reduce, or temporarily ignore some conditions? Imagining things like the mask misery mesmerist trick or the placebo effect spell for the temporarily ignoring a condition bit. Though I guess actual healing is potentially problematic unless you institute uses per day, given stamina regenerates potentially infinitely...maybe 3 + Constitution times per day?

Just a thought.

That is something I am considering with the number changes.


The whole 'second wind' thing is starting to make this class sound like the original Bob Howard/Weird Tales Conan the Barbarian. That is not a complaint.


Your Weapon Master's Handbook was a godsend for fighters. I'm usually 3rd party-hermetic, but I may well open an exception here. Will definitely be keeping an eye on this one.

Also, any chance of the following features being addressed in any way, shape or form?

- More alternatives for bravery, if it remains (say, apply its bonus to a skill or touch AC)
- Weapon, armor or perhaps even magic item-specific stamina combat tricks
- More high-end feats like the PHBII's Weapon Supremacy
- Options that expand upon the use of Stamina, such as using it for saves or damage.

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Viriato wrote:
Your Weapon Master's Handbook was a godsend for fighters. I'm usually 3rd party-hermetic, but I may well open an exception here. Will definitely be keeping an eye on this one.

Plus side—if you don't want to use my class, you could always just nab the new advanced weapon/armor training options for your classic fighter!

Quote:
- More alternatives for bravery, if it remains (say, apply its bonus to a skill or touch AC)

I think there's one or two new ones—not much.

Quote:
- Weapon, armor or perhaps even magic item-specific stamina combat tricks

Not yet, but its something I want to do in future expansions of the system. I needed to lay out the groundwork for the Unchained Fighter in this book.

Quote:
- More high-end feats like the PHBII's Weapon Supremacy

Not really. I prefer feats that have super cool abilities that scale with your level / effectiveness. Things like Power Attack (which isn't fixed) are more interesting to me than things like Weapon Focus (which is fixed).

Quote:
- Options that expand upon the use of Stamina, such as using it for saves or damage.

LOTS.

Basically every new feat in the book gets a combat trick (that's about a dozen), and a bunch of new AWTs and AATs have combat tricks associated with them.

One thing I want to do down the line if this proves popular is create a system that takes the game's various style feats and turn them into a low-end "Tome of Battle"-style system, where your style has bonus combat tricks based upon which prerequisites you meet. Another thing I want to do is go through the 1PP feats that don't have combat tricks and make combat tricks for them, but that would be a HUGE undertaking because I would likely have to reprint the feat in full Feat Reference Guide style in order to make it work.


Is this in print?

If so count me in.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Magus Black wrote:
You mention that some of the bad Archetypes will be modified to be better than the originals, are there any you can name for us?

Sure.

The APG has a bunch of archetypes that aren't bad, but suffered terribly when the Weapon Masters Handbook was released, simply because they lost the ability to pick AWTs.

In EMU: Fighters, most of those archetypes keep at least the 5th level AWT, meaning that they get at least one AWT and qualify for the feat option for more AWTs.

Yes, some. But there are plenty of archetypes that were garbage long before now, Crossbowman (Bolt Ace is superior overall), Free Hand Fighter (doubly so since the Learned Duelist is better) and a few others all suffer from some sort of backwards design that makes them inferior to the base class at the time of Advanced Class Guide (and the addition of other classes and archetypes has made them at best obsolete).

Still I suppose I should hope for best.

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rainzax wrote:

Is this in print?

If so count me in.

Not yet, but a print option is something I would like to do down the road. The problem is that with the Dynastic Races Compendium on the horizon, I can't devote the time to reformatting the product to print.

When my Kickstarter obligations are fulfilled? Absolutely.

Dark Archive

Is it too late to nap a hardcover, preferably in color, of the Dynastic Races Compendium?

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JonathonWilder wrote:
Is it too late to nap a hardcover, preferably in color, of the Dynastic Races Compendium?

All copies are going to be in color--I didn't sense a demand for black and white when I ran the Kickstarter.

The DRC will be available for wholesale when it's done, however. Backers will get the option to order it first, however. I am currently about 1/3 through the wayang content, and after that just the character options and appendix will be left to finish. My target date is now January 2017, though it's subject to change based on my artist's schedule.


I know this thread is for the Unchained Fighter but the news about the DRC from Mister Augunas is equally good to hear.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
lots of good stuff

All good to hear. This product has my attention.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
rainzax wrote:

Is this in print?

If so count me in.

Not yet, but a print option is something I would like to do down the road.

It's because I'd like a partner to sit with my print edition of Legendary Rogue so that I can hand either book to my (new) players who read "Fighter" and "Rogue" in the core rulebook and tell me they want to play one.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
One thing I want to do down the line if this proves popular is create a system that takes the game's various style feats and turn them into a low-end "Tome of Battle"-style system, where your style has bonus combat tricks based upon which prerequisites you meet.

This would be really cool.


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Ok I have an idea for you.

Let's say this project takes off and you find yourself considering how else to expand it.

Perhaps consider doing an entire rewrite of "Proficiency" and tying that in with Combat Feats, Style Feats, Combat Maneuvers, Weapon Special Features (trip, brace, etc) and/or the Stamina system.

The basic idea here would be to take cue from the proficiency mechanics of the bastard sword - in which "martial" proficiency allows two-handed use whereas "exotic" proficiency allows one-handed use - and expand upon that concept to include many other weapons as well.


Man, I can't wait. I have a character concept, just waiting for the book to drop now.

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Don't wait, Lord Mhoram!

Everyman Unchained: Fighters is now available at DriveThru RPG (and will soon be available at Paizo)!

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Also, as noted in the linked blog post above, Everyman Gaming now has a Twitter handle if you're of the Tweeting Type. :D


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Alexander Augunas wrote:

Don't wait, Lord Mhoram!

Everyman Unchained: Fighters is now available at DriveThru RPG (and will soon be available at Paizo)!

I didn't. That was me on facebook with the "And....purchased" comment :).

Have read through it (as a once over) - what I see looks fantastic, and this coming from someone who never liked the fighter in 3.x or PF. Good stuff.


Kudos! This is very cool, and makes me, someone who'd never want to play a fighter... play a fighter! There's one ability where something seems to have been lost in translation; can't figure out what True Determination is trying to get at in the first sentence.

True Determination (Ex) wrote:
The fighter adds panicked and petrified to the list of conditions that he can suppress using the determination advanced weapon training option: bleed, blind, confused, cowering, deafened, exhausted, frightened, nauseated, paralyzed, or stunned.

Does a fighter with True Determination get to use Determination against all of these abilities: bleed, blind, confused, cowering, deafened, exhausted, frightened, nauseated, panicked, paralyzed, petrified, or stunned? Or what was the intention here?

Dark Archive

When I get paid Friday I will see about buying the PDF.

Will you be doing any updates for fixes if errors are caught by those who purchase the PDF? This could be beneficial just in case anything was missed.

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White Unggoy wrote:

Kudos! This is very cool, and makes me, someone who'd never want to play a fighter... play a fighter! There's one ability where something seems to have been lost in translation; can't figure out what True Determination is trying to get at in the first sentence.

True Determination (Ex) wrote:
The fighter adds panicked and petrified to the list of conditions that he can suppress using the determination advanced weapon training option: bleed, blind, confused, cowering, deafened, exhausted, frightened, nauseated, paralyzed, or stunned.
Does a fighter with True Determination get to use Determination against all of these abilities: bleed, blind, confused, cowering, deafened, exhausted, frightened, nauseated, panicked, paralyzed, petrified, or stunned? Or what was the intention here?

That looks like a typo from an older version. I'll check my notes.

My gut says that panicked and petrified shouldn't be on that list (it should just be the ones listed).

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White Unggoy wrote:

Kudos! This is very cool, and makes me, someone who'd never want to play a fighter... play a fighter! There's one ability where something seems to have been lost in translation; can't figure out what True Determination is trying to get at in the first sentence.

True Determination (Ex) wrote:
The fighter adds panicked and petrified to the list of conditions that he can suppress using the determination advanced weapon training option: bleed, blind, confused, cowering, deafened, exhausted, frightened, nauseated, paralyzed, or stunned.
Does a fighter with True Determination get to use Determination against all of these abilities: bleed, blind, confused, cowering, deafened, exhausted, frightened, nauseated, panicked, paralyzed, petrified, or stunned? Or what was the intention here?

So, basically, the conditions added should be panicked and petrified, and true determination should list greater determination as a prerequisite.

By the time you qualify for true determination, all those listed conditions should be available for you to suppress because they're the exact same list that's detailed for greater determination.

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JonathonWilder wrote:

When I get paid Friday I will see about buying the PDF.

Will you be doing any updates for fixes if errors are caught by those who purchase the PDF? This could be beneficial just in case anything was missed.

Yes—I've actually delayed the print version of this by a week or two so I can fix any errors that crop up first.


Ahh, so there is a Greater Determination talent. I didn't expressly go in search of it, but it wasn't mentioned by True Determination and didn't remember seeing it. Cool, thanks for the quick response.


It's great that this PDF is finally released. Just the preview of it on RPGNow makes me want to get a copy!


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Alex -- I saw a couple of points that you might want to fix for the print version:

1) The Gnome Weapon Training mentions "Elven" instead of "Gnome" in its prerequisites.

2) Is a bladed scarf supposed to do 1d6 or 1d4 damage against a grappler? The first sentence in the weapon description gives one value while the last sentence gives the other value.

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David knott 242 wrote:

2) Is a bladed scarf supposed to do 1d6 or 1d4 damage against a grappler? The first sentence in the weapon description gives one value while the last sentence gives the other value.

It should be 1d4. Both of your spotted errors will be fixed before the book goes to print.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Luthorne wrote:
Shouldn't it be from the Advanced Player's Guide to Occult Adventures, since I believe neither Ultimate Intrigue nor Horror Adventures had any fighter archetypes?
You are correct, but I checked those books to make sure. Aka I am caught up to the most recent Core Rulebook releases. ;-)

I think you missed the two Fighter archetypes in the Advanced Class Guide. When I noticed that the Martial Master was missing, I thought "No big deal -- it is kind of baked into the standard Unchained Fighter class in this PDF, if you choose the right advanced weapon talents." But the Mutation Warrior has abilities that are definitely not covered at present.


David knott 242 wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Luthorne wrote:
Shouldn't it be from the Advanced Player's Guide to Occult Adventures, since I believe neither Ultimate Intrigue nor Horror Adventures had any fighter archetypes?
You are correct, but I checked those books to make sure. Aka I am caught up to the most recent Core Rulebook releases. ;-)

I think you missed the two Fighter archetypes in the Advanced Class Guide. When I noticed that the Martial Master was missing, I thought "No big deal -- it is kind of baked into the standard Unchained Fighter class in this PDF, if you choose the right advanced weapon talents." But the Mutation Warrior has abilities that are definitely not covered at present.

Mutation Warrior is an unmitigated design disaster. It shouldn't exist and making a balanced archetype for it would mean nerfing it to the point players sneer at your creation simply for being reasonable.

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David knott 242 wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Luthorne wrote:
Shouldn't it be from the Advanced Player's Guide to Occult Adventures, since I believe neither Ultimate Intrigue nor Horror Adventures had any fighter archetypes?
You are correct, but I checked those books to make sure. Aka I am caught up to the most recent Core Rulebook releases. ;-)

I think you missed the two Fighter archetypes in the Advanced Class Guide. When I noticed that the Martial Master was missing, I thought "No big deal -- it is kind of baked into the standard Unchained Fighter class in this PDF, if you choose the right advanced weapon talents." But the Mutation Warrior has abilities that are definitely not covered at present.

I ultimately ended up setting aside martial master and mutagenic warrior for a future project because it became abundantly clear that those two needed a major redesign in how they were going to need to work in order to be better balanced with the unchained fighter.

So yeah, those archetypes didn't make it in. Gone, but not forgotten.

#UnchainedFighterArchetypes


Is there anything like the Lore Warden? More specifically, boosts to CMB/CMD? Know Thy Enemy is cool too, but I want Lore Warden for the maneuver bonus.

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miscdebris wrote:
Ita there anything like the Lore Warden? More specifically, boosts to CMB/CMD? Know Thy Enemy is cool too, but I want Lore Warden for the maneuver bonus.

Lore warden isn't a Core Rulebook line archetype, so it'll be appearing in the archetype-focused sequel product.

There are, however, options that will improve your ability to perform combat maneuvers.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
miscdebris wrote:
Ita there anything like the Lore Warden? More specifically, boosts to CMB/CMD? Know Thy Enemy is cool too, but I want Lore Warden for the maneuver bonus.

Lore warden isn't a Core Rulebook line archetype, so it'll be appearing in the archetype-focused sequel product.

Out less than a week and a sequel is being planned? Congrats on it selling that well!

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Eric Hinkle wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
miscdebris wrote:
Ita there anything like the Lore Warden? More specifically, boosts to CMB/CMD? Know Thy Enemy is cool too, but I want Lore Warden for the maneuver bonus.

Lore warden isn't a Core Rulebook line archetype, so it'll be appearing in the archetype-focused sequel product.

Out less than a week and a sequel is being planned? Congrats on it selling that well!

I don't have any sales figures on it, but if there's one thing that I've learned from Owen its that planning a tie-in is almost always a good idea.

Especially when that tie-in doesn't require me to write 40+ pages and commission 10+ all-new pieces of art. ;-)

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In case you haven't seen, Everyman Unchained: Fighters is now available here at Paizo.com!


Alexander Augunas wrote:
miscdebris wrote:
Ita there anything like the Lore Warden? More specifically, boosts to CMB/CMD? Know Thy Enemy is cool too, but I want Lore Warden for the maneuver bonus.

Lore warden isn't a Core Rulebook line archetype, so it'll be appearing in the archetype-focused sequel product.

There are, however, options that will improve your ability to perform combat maneuvers.

It comes pretty close, CMB wise. Only 4 points short with proper AWT selection. You can even match a Lore Warden on a couple maneuvers. Nicely done.

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miscdebris wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
miscdebris wrote:
Ita there anything like the Lore Warden? More specifically, boosts to CMB/CMD? Know Thy Enemy is cool too, but I want Lore Warden for the maneuver bonus.

Lore warden isn't a Core Rulebook line archetype, so it'll be appearing in the archetype-focused sequel product.

There are, however, options that will improve your ability to perform combat maneuvers.

It comes pretty close, CMB wise. Only 4 points short with proper AWT selection. You can even match a Lore Warden on a couple maneuvers. Nicely done.

Yup, and a bunch of the lore warden-specific abilities will return as advanced weapon training options that you can choose from in the expansion product.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
miscdebris wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
miscdebris wrote:
Ita there anything like the Lore Warden? More specifically, boosts to CMB/CMD? Know Thy Enemy is cool too, but I want Lore Warden for the maneuver bonus.

Lore warden isn't a Core Rulebook line archetype, so it'll be appearing in the archetype-focused sequel product.

There are, however, options that will improve your ability to perform combat maneuvers.

It comes pretty close, CMB wise. Only 4 points short with proper AWT selection. You can even match a Lore Warden on a couple maneuvers. Nicely done.
Yup, and a bunch of the lore warden-specific abilities will return as advanced weapon training options that you can choose from in the expansion product.

I'll be refreshing til it's released. ;)


Anyone have anything interesting that they have done with EMU Fighters?


I just got an update to EMU Fighter. Is there anywhere we can find a list of changes? I like the ones that I've found, but I might be missing some.

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miscdebris wrote:
I just got an update to EMU Fighter. Is there anywhere we can find a list of changes? I like the ones that I've found, but I might be missing some.

Updates to EMU: Fighters:

Added a new mechanic to the unchained fighter—fighter training options. Fighters can effectively “trade” their advanced armor training options, advanced weapon training options, or bonus feats in order to gain these special abilities, which mostly focus around providing noncombatant abilities and support to the unchained fighter.

— Adaptable Training AAT was reclassified as a FTO.
— Inspiring Confidence AWT was reclassified as a FTO.
— Item Mastery AWT was reclassified as a FTO.
— Mount AWT was reclassified as a FTO.
— Resolve AWT was reclassified as a FTO.

— Removed the Fighter’s Style AWT.
— Removed the Master Armorer AAT. (Folded into Master Craftsman FTO.)
— Removed the Master Weaponsmith AWT. (Folded into Master Craftsman FTO.)
— Removed Versatile Bravery AWT.

Archetypes
— Crossbowman was reworked to bring it closer in power to the bold ace gunslinger. The deadshot class feature was redesigned reclassified as an AWT that the crossbowman gains earlier.
— Polearm Master’s pole arm training ability was reclassified as an AWT that the pole arm master gains earlier. The Polearm master’s version scales.

Weapon Groups
— Added to missing weapon descriptions (boarding pike and flambard).
— Fixed discrepancies with the combat scabbard and sharpened combat scabbard.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

And changed the stamina costs on Martial Spontaneity and Parry, among others. (it needed increasing). Incidentally, are Greater and True supposed to be cheaper than the base Martial Spontaneity?

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miscdebris wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
** spoiler omitted **
And changed the stamina costs on Martial Spontaneity and Parry, among others. (it needed increasing). Incidentally, are Greater and True supposed to be cheaper than the base Martial Spontaneity?

No, I'll take a peak at it.

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To answer your question, miscdebris, all three should be 3 stamina per feat. I'll see if I can't get that out in a quick fix this week. (There are a couple of other hiccups that were brought to my attention, like improved fighter's feint being out of order alphabetically.)


A very minor point but I think the (Aldori) dueling sword isn't listed among the weapon groups, though it's properly statted up. I think it would fit in with the heavy blades group?

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Eric Hinkle wrote:
A very minor point but I think the (Aldori) dueling sword isn't listed among the weapon groups, though it's properly statted up. I think it would fit in with the heavy blades group?

It should be in the heavy blades group, yes.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Eric Hinkle wrote:
A very minor point but I think the (Aldori) dueling sword isn't listed among the weapon groups, though it's properly statted up. I think it would fit in with the heavy blades group?
It should be in the heavy blades group, yes.

Thank you.

And my but if your fighter picks the Heavy Blades weapon group as their main one at first level, they get a LOT of "free" EWPs. Bastard sword, Estoc, (Aldori) dueling sword, katana, and I think there's several others as well.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
To answer your question, miscdebris, all three should be 3 stamina per feat. I'll see if I can't get that out in a quick fix this week. (There are a couple of other hiccups that were brought to my attention, like improved fighter's feint being out of order alphabetically.)

Glad to help, and sad that it's so. I would see stamina costs dropping a bit at higher levels.

Does that work with boundless stamina? Does Martial Spontaneity and other fighter options count as Combat Tricks?

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Eric Hinkle wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Eric Hinkle wrote:
A very minor point but I think the (Aldori) dueling sword isn't listed among the weapon groups, though it's properly statted up. I think it would fit in with the heavy blades group?
It should be in the heavy blades group, yes.

Thank you.

And my but if your fighter picks the Heavy Blades weapon group as their main one at first level, they get a LOT of "free" EWPs. Bastard sword, Estoc, (Aldori) dueling sword, katana, and I think there's several others as well.

The lists are fairly well balanced in terms of the number of free EWPs you get for your first-level pick—heavy blades is simply notable because it has a lot of weapons that players like to take. (Aka the 18–20 blades.)

Tangent:

I generally think that the weapon proficiency system we use in Pathfinder is an archaic, unfun system that front loads proficiencies far too much and generally makes further specializing with more weapons a chore. Making an unchained weapon proficiency system is something on my peripheral, but I haven't gotten to it yet.

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