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A nondescript swamp in Louisiana
As long as that applies to all forms of offense, that's fine. Sure, a greatsword has less range than a fireball, but if a rogue can be stealthed in the fireball in order to flag the caster, then they should also be able to stealth into the paladin's backswing to flag them too. Of course, you could also absolve both the spellcaster and paladin of their responsibility for targets they couldn't see. I guess there's a reason why you added all the bracketed stuff into my post? Wry humor maybe? Covert sarcasm? Demon possession?
I would rather see a death penalty that's enough of a pain so that players don't want to die, but not so harsh that they whine incessantly about it. Death in MMOs has become so trivial that its meaningless. I don't believe this is the right way to go.
Personally I'm in favor of timing being "in game", but 24 hours just seems way too short for things like an assassination contracts. I realize that they weren't really mentioned, but wanted to add them to the discussion. Bounties, to me, should last longer then 24 hours. As far as flags like thief, or criminal or attacker, they should be handled on a case by case basis, but their lifespan should be much shorter then 24 hours. I favor a varied scale depending on the severity of the act for flags like the criminal flag. Definitely though I favor game time as a unit of measure for all types of flags.
You know, the way I see it, is the OP has a point. BUT that point really doesn't apply to the people on this forum. What I mean is I've encountered people, both online and in RL that I can only mark as evil people. In RL I can spot them within 5 minutes of meeting them, usually. Online it can take longer, but their true colors eventually shine through. These people aren't the type to post logical coherent responses in threads like we engage in here, they can usually be found making someone's life difficult whether its online or in RL. I'm certainly not suggesting that I'm a paragon of goodness. Nor that I can tell unerringly, people's true nature just by chatting with them for a few minutes. But honestly I know we've all met people like who I'm talking about. That's my take anyway, to borrow a line from GrumpyMel, YMMV.
Bet if we started calling them Goblin Balls they would give us a name fairly quick <wg>
Can you explain what you mean by this?
In PFO many actions leave a real mark on the game world. Like say you gathered the material and initiated the upgrade to your settlements metalworking facility from level 2 to level 3. That's a physical change you effected in the game world. Where as in games like Wow, you could spend 10 hours raiding some instance, and unless you won the roll for those clunky bird cage shoulder pieces, you may as well have spent those 10 hours standing around IF with all the other superLeet players for all the impact on the game world you had.
Ryan mentioned why they weren't going to add any arena type areas to PFO, but I can't recall exactly what he said. It put the kibosh on another topic we were discussing at the time, which I believe was having arena tournaments.
The boredom factor inherent in most MMOs Raids is what drove me away from all the theme park games. Going into a huge hall that's got knots of mobs standing grouped throughout the hall. Then the players move 2 paces north and 3 west and engage 1 group. Then move 4 paces east and 3 north to take on another group etc.... Thats like watching paint dry. And your reward? The chance to roll on a piece of armor you need to complete yet another set of gear, big woohoo. I hope the Superdungeon is able to avoid this type of situation. If nothing else hopefully they can randomize the rewards so that its not so predictable.
With all due respect, Dungeons and Raid content should be instanced so it doesn't affect the server. If too many players want to play then keep adding hexes which are instanced anyways I think. They may well instance dungeons, but doing so moves away from sandbox towards theme park, and makes for a "canned" experience = boring.
Yea, I lean toward item decay too, but we will just have to see what they decide. I've not heard if mounts will have packs to carry good or not. I would love to see pack animals like donkeys or even exotic creatures used as pack animals, to me it makes perfect sense to have wagons of various sizes, pulled by a variety of animals, as well as single pack animals that individuals can use. These animals could go places that wagons couldn't and would allow prospectors and those searching for resource locations to range far and wide in their search, as well as transport samples and tools etc..
Something that crossed my mind regarding the subterranean areas, not the Superdungeon, just the standard underground. I think it would be really cool if there were areas within the underground where adventrers had set up camps in the past. Perhaps an oven, broken and beat up, but still able to function, and a place for a small group to bed down. The crux is having a way for a group to barricade themselves in, or I even considered having a door that can be closed but has no lock. Perhaps if we beg the Devs, they would allow players to be able to craft locks which could be used to secure the door! Obviously these locks are subject to being picked so whoever is using the area would not want to leave valuable stuff laying about. What this would do is provide a group that is fleeing from, say the Hellknights, or pretty much anyone, a place to hide out until the heat dies down somewat. Lthese areas would be subject to wandering monsters, and it would be really cool to see a couple of these hideouts throughout the land. Even if they are only utilized as temporary rest points between battles, I think it would enhance players experience. It would also be a twist to have a group of monsters, or even NPCs take up residence in one of these "camps".
I would like to see the physics system discussed a bit, like what's planned for PFO. I got to thinking about it after watching how objects and characters move and react to combat and other forces in the videos for the game Sui Generis. The videos can be seen Here . Personally I like how their combat will not have target lock, nor auto attack, although I know we can't have that in PFO. But I'm wondering if there are any plans for a different type of physics system then is typical in MMOs being put out today? I've got no idea of the mechanics involved, or how difficult it might be. But if you were facing off with an enemy and you managed to get say a table and chairs between you, if you could cast some sort of spell, or even strike the table just right so that it sails across and slams into your opponent, that would just rock! I know Mortal Online had players load Geforce PhysiX (I think that was the name), so even cards that didn't directly have physics could utilize their technology. This might be a direction that GW doesn't want to go, but I would love to hear their plans.
I would like to see the physics system discussed a bit, like what's planned for PFO. I got to thinking about it after watching how objects and characters move and react to combat and other forces in the videos for the game Sui Generis. The videos can be seen Here . Personally I like how their combat will not have target lock, nor auto attack, although I know we can't have that in PFO. But I'm wondering if there are any plans for a different type of physics system then is typical in MMOs being put out today?
The case with this particular NPC wielding a giants sword, is quite a bit different then just having monstrously oversized weapons filling the game world. If we don't pick nits occasionally we end up with a game full of bugs!
You start by saying using a creepy program that may overly monitor what your computer is doing, might not be a bad idea. Then follow it up saying GW would never go so far as to disallow 3rd party programs. Are you saying it might not be a bad idea, but they wouldn't do it? The part I bolded is correct. In a game set in a time where technology, cell phones etc... Don't exist, characters shouldn't be able to talk to other characters on the other side of the map. Magic may allow some communication, but it would be more in line with the telegraph system as opposed to say a cell phone. Access being harder to come by as few possess the skill. So mainly I was saying if a program could limit communication to how it "should" be in the game world, I would approve its use. But GW would never try and limit players communication, even if it were possible, which it isn't. As you point out, there are other means that bypass the computer totally. I believe it would be interesting to see a game where communication is limited to how it would be in the game world, where /shout is the furthest distance most players can communicate if they can't employ magic. It would definitely make for a different gaming experience. Maybe a bad one, who knows?
I liked the idea of bags and pouches that are either tamper resistant, or have enchantments on them giving a small bonus to anti-theft. No big bonus on either method but a boost would be useful.
I don't know about rain/wind affecting visibility or targeting outside of specific spell effects, but it would be cool. What I really hope we have though is movement penalties for bad terrain. Not allowing charging over bad terrain, reduced movement speed, and so on. I just don't know how much coding work it will require, so it will be hard to say when or if it will be in the game.I totally agree, especially in aPvP game intending formation combat. Many lessons offered by Sun Tsu only make sense where terrain defines the battlefield. I'm looking forward to being able to apply all of "The Art of War" in PFO. He puts a lot of emphasis on the use of spy's and deception. I've never played a game that had large scale unit combat that ALSO had spy's (rogues) as a playable role. To be able to utilize spy's in conjunction with his other principals of combat is going to be extremely, extremely cool! :D I'm also going to have lots of fun with the Assassins possibly severing bind point threads putting the victim further away from the battle then normal. I see commanders cussing and screaming bwhahaha ;)
I think comparing Amiri and Cloud Strife is more in line with manga. God I hope the Devs don't take any cues from Manga! I bet most of their weapons are obscenely oversized. Not a fan of that sort of stuff. What I've seen from PF I've liked. Manga just seems too cartoonish for my taste.
Another suggestion or two... The tentative development timeline for things like alternative skills, fishing, shipwright, things that aren't critical like blacksmith or woodworker. Also would like to see you guys timeline for such things as settlement buildings reflecting racial, or area style, adding the ability to enter buildings, where say, the NPC mob faction system is within the development timeline. I'm also curious as to if you ever plan on making the grunt NPCs visible? Obviously any info given would be subject to change as development proceeds. I ask just to have a general idea of where these things are placed on the master timeline.
A couple of things... Hopefully what we see are just models with full sets of gear and you can swap out clothing which would display on the character. I've noticed the models are very muscular and that's fine. But I hope we will be able to make skinny characters and fat characters as we are rolling our characters. Certain games *cough* Wow *cough* offer no choice in proportion or body size. Given the way the models colors are being adjusted, I'm wondering if we will have a system like they have in Rift where you have two areas in each piece of gear that you can dye? I like that system actually, it gives players lots of options for personalizing your character. Gotta say again that I really like the "look" of the models, and echo Bluddwolf in saying that you've defeated the cartoon curse some games suffer under! :D
Yes, exactly. Even if you detect a pickpocket, by the time you do so they've already succeeded or not and only have to get away - a much easier and quicker proposition than having to defeat the victim (and possibly their guards) in combat, even against a non-combat victim. In a combat encounter, a noncombat victim can at least try to run away - getting away safely could be seen as a draw in a normal combat encounter, whereas running away from a pickpocket... Actually i dont believe your last sentence, which didn't copy in the quote, is correct. We don't know for sure how they will react, but if you've been pick pocketed, the thief will be flagged and the game should view you as being "in combat". If that's the case you could run to the guards and if they react like I think they will, the guards will go after the thief killing them and allowing you to recover your item. I might be wrong in thinking this, but don't believe I am.
Ahhh, ok I get what your saying now. Something like a throwing axe, hammer, dagger, should have a melee score that you can use if you have one of them equipped in your hand and click on an attack that uses a 1H weap. For a short spear I guess you would have to use a pole arm attack. I can't see it being hard to have the option to use them as thrown or in melee combat.
So long as stuff like corpse camping and having your character targeted for repeated PK'ing isn't a problem then I think a form of escalated penalty for repeated death is something that should be considered, but there should be a reset, putting you back to normal every 24 hours or so, not on a weekly scale. I actually like the idea of having certain mobs exact greater penalties when they kill you then normal death to mobs. Nothing permanent, but perhaps a longer or stronger, or maybe both! Debuff, like say a named Dragon kills you, you'll get the message that "Ankallagon the Black is feasting on your broken corpse" or perhaps a powerful NPC Mage slays you and teleports you further away from your husk then you normally would be. Just for special mobs though, to add flavor to the game. I like the idea that NPCs speak to you directly. In an old game I used to play they had a NPC mob that would taunt you as you were fighting it, saying things like "Getting tired yet xxxxxx?", "Almost got you that time xxxxxx." Small things like that really add to the game.
@Aunt Toney. You need to watch the videos about the game, two talk about their development timeline. I'm sure that once they get the core systems running they will be able to start working on items. When combat isn't finalized there's really no point in worrying about 7 league boots.
Very likely all the games that Summersnoow makes have always been released on time, never have unforeseen problems and are always free. /sarcasm I like the "forced to pay" bit. Makes me think of a black van pulling up outside his house, Ryan, Stephen and the rest of the GW guys wearing masks getting out with ropes, chains, thumbscrews coming to collect the EE money :P "Vee come for zee money"
Wow a sandbox? /chuckle. All I can say is Duuuuuuuude.
Though I love stealthing - it truly is one of my favorite skills even though I don't play assassins or thieves - and though I have enjoyed sneaking around totally unseen in broad daylight, I hope PFO goes for a more realistic take on stealth. That someone is so masterful at stealthing that they can stand an inch from my nose without me seeing them is a bit silly. I like your ideas! Although I always play a rogue type and would like nothing better then to be able to stealth and never be seen, I recognize how unrealistic that is. With the talk of changing critical hits, which may include backstab type damage, I'm a bit concerned at the rogues playability if stealth can be broken easily. But I have faith that the Devs will keep the spirit of the Thief class while making what changes they make to combat and to abilities. Something I didn't mention, that your post reminded me of. I thought about splitting stealth up based on the different roles that utilize it. Like having Rogues (Thieves) use traditional stealth (invisible type stealth), having Assassins use a more disguise, hard to identify/spot type stealth while having Rangers/Scouts use a more camouflage type stealth. It's just something that popped into my head as I was reading different posts on stealth.
Well how about this.... A new prophecy has been found/given/spoken that details the end of existence if the Worldwound isn't dealt with. So some deity (maybe Pharasma?) hatched a plan to reincarnate these chosen adventurers until they are powerful enough to deal with the worldwound.
Escalation cycles may absolutely wind up being composed of intelligent NPCs that you have a high alliance rating with (and/or your settlement has a relationship with). We're working on giving you a variety of nuanced options in that case, including doing quests to actually help them for a reward and using social game systems to get them to move a couple hexes over and attack your enemies. Actually enlisting them directly for help feeds into our overall decisions on pets and other direct NPC followers, so it's too early to say for sure. But if you're, say, a character friendly with goblins and you're being chased by characters who are not their friends, you can absolutely lead the pursuers into a pack of goblins and expect them to attack your pursuers but not you. Ah that is righteous! Nobody else is going in this direction and I think it'll bring a whole different dimension to the gameplay. If players could work it out where mobs move to an enemy hex and take up residence, then when the enemies are deep in combat with the mobs, you sweep into hammer their flank! The are so many options when you bring factions into the picture that its almost like a whole different game, certainly an addition that other MMOs can't offer because they are too busy creating more grindey content! :D Thanks! Made my day learning that you guys are planning to have factions and ways to interact with them.
I guess that means no random animals wandering the land? Unless they are part of an escalation cycle it doesn't sound like there will be?
True. I hope that if there is an invisibility spell, it wont be a replacement for a good stealth skill. The one thing I dislike about Pathfinder pnp skills is the combination of hide and move silently and spot and listen. Being invisible is a lot less useful if you are making enough noise to wake the dead. It would be pretty cool if characters made realistic noise, like plate wearers rattling, chain clinking.
ESO is pretty. Graphics and scenery look great, too bad the game is set up like a Wow clone. For me it'll be like Rift. Beta for however long it takes for them to release
Heck I didn't even make it until release before I bailed on SW Tor.
What if, unless it's a special item unique to that dungeon storyline, the game server randomly assigned loot based on the same coding it normally uses for random encounters of that same level? When you launch the dungeon, the server checks the level of the dungeon adventure, and creates loot appropriately. Was just about to suggest this :) it's how NWO is handling the loot in their UGC tool called "The Foundry". You design everything and the game sever handles NPC and mob loot based on the level of the NPC or mob. Likewise (I think) you can place 1 large chest per module which the game adds loot based on the modules level, this chest has a set number of items and is intended to be the best loot of the scenario or module. I would urge anyone interested in UGC to check out what info there is on NWOs Foundry. It's the next evolution of the module creator included in NWN 2. A few vids can be found on the foundry via YouTube can be seen Here I've "heard" that the Foundry is pretty cool. It's pretty complex allowing for deep NPC programming in many ways, movement, conversation, appearance. The tools for creating the content are really in depth, you can do all sorts of cool stuff. The biggest downside IMO is that loot, as well as items that can be interacted with within the game world have these sparkles that make them really stand out. While this might not seem that important, if however your creating some object the player is supposed to "search" for, there is no way to remove the sparkles. I've also "heard" that the game it's self is nothing to write home about. It's based on D&D 4e rules which after "hearing" about them I'm REALLY glad paizo didn't use them in PF and that GW isn't using them for PFO!
I agree with you. It makes sense that the harvesters skill is a factor in the amount of material they gather from a node as opposed to the quality of material. The quality of material seems like it would be more a factor of the refiner. My fear of attaching skill to the quality of the material you remove from a node is twofold. First, Two years into the game, who is going to want to buy a new player's iron if it's lower grade than anyone uses anymore? If they enable all types of material being needed in crafting all levels of item, a system similar to what Eve uses, then this problem will pretty much never surface because so much of it will be needed that even the lowest quality material will be in demand. Just for clarity my suggestion is to require all levels of material be necessary for all recipes with the higher levels requiring more lower level material as the recipe level increases.
What is the expected motivation for new harvesters to start harvesting after the game has fully started? Will there remain a market for level 5 swords after several years, when I suspect that it will have been completely edged out by the production of level 50 swords for the same price? In addition to the points brought up by Randomwalker above, I made a plea for the Devs to consider using all levels and types of raw material, which is then refined, in all skill levels of recipes. As an example, here's a fictional recipe.. Level 1 long sword 8 copper ingots
And a fictional sword of a higher level.. Level 20 long sword 20 copper ingots
Totally made up, thus not proportional. But you can see where I'm going with the idea. Eve uses this system and it really helped me as a new player because my noob mats were in demand. This gave me a revenue stream right away, as opposed to a system like Wow uses where once I level out of copper I never need it again unless I want to make a low level item, which is almost never.
Yep, it does sound overly complex, I love that :D As far as wanting level 300 mats, I expect them to be very rare, even 2+ years post release. So I would say sure you can do it all yourself and yes it would require you skilling up in multiple skill trees. To me that's not a bad thing though, I'll be skilling up several trees anyway. I'm not sure about using material lower then level 300 to create a level 300 item. My initial feeling would be that all the components would have to be level 300, but I could be wrong. Lyndon Hardy <sp?> wrote a book called Master of the Five Magics in which magic items required a bunch of people performing very complex rituals to create even the simplest of magic items. Your post brought that book to mind. At this point I doubt they have given it much thought, but it would be really cool if there were a way for several refiners to combine their skills and re-refine a material in an attempt to raise the quality level. Perhaps this could be done with a chance of getting a higher level material, or if the roll fails a chance of returning the same, or lower quality level material, or a chance of the material being totally consumed? Sort of a "take your chances" type operation? I think this would be an interesting concept to consider. I'm all for multiple casters combining their power to cast "mega" versions of spells. To reduce abuse of this option I think that it should require a good bit of time, like if two casters were attempting to combine their powers, the spell requires twice the amount of time to cast, three casters and the spell takes maybe 2.5 times as long etc...?
I really really Hope they take a page from Eves crafting system and use all levels of material throughout the crafting process. Meaning that a level 1 recipe might require X amount of copper ingots, while a level 20 recipe would require XX amount of copper in addition to X amount of adamantite and X amount of unobtanium (made up material for example). This would ensure that lower level gatherers will be needed by higher level crafters and refiners, guaranteeing them a revenue stream as well as a place within the crafting community and settlement.
Mammoth Rider: A close second. I have never seen an MMO with war elephants trampling through enemy lines, and I'll tell you, as hard as mounted combat might be to code into a game, everyone will be talking about this class. Forget adding the CRB prestige classes and going from there, this needs to be in the game as soon as mounted combat is. That would be awesome. Dunno how hard it would be to model, but MAN it would be wicked in game!
I would love to see noticeable seasons in the game, instead of the generic seasonal events most games toss in. Would also love to see games of chance is are mentioned above. They would add a lot to RP as well as giving people interesting ways to spend their coin. Games could evolve into tournaments. They could even have gaming halls that could be built and upgraded (I can hear the Devs groaning now :p ) card games, perhaps a roulette game, darts would be very cool too. If they added dice there are many games that could be made up using them. I would be cool if dice could be crafted using different types of material, stone, bones even exotic bone dice. I better stop before the Devs plot my eternal torture once EE starts. :P. "No we aren't sure why your character keeps getting eaten by dragons whenever you log on, it's totally random we assure you."
What would you all think if they implemented an Eve style tutorial system that gives you these experience points as the tutorial progresses? Basically you begin the game blank, with nothing. Your met by the tutorial NPC which explains how you came to be here, and details the various options you can follow as you play the game. Lets say you picked gathering, the tutorial would explain the various Skills used in gathering as well as explaining small resource deposits that individual characters can harvest, and large deposits that require a harvesting camp. There would be a series of "quests" or tasks that require you to locate and gather an amount of resource which you would turn in for experience and some coin. Ultimately you would gain knowledge of the game world as well as a bit of coin and experience you can apply to whatever skills you wish. The way Eve handles it is that a character can try out all the choices in the tutorial so they can make informed decisions as to what role they wish to peruse and what sort of crafting area that interests them. As they finish a section of the tutorial, the NPC would tell them who they can see to continue training in that skill set and provide them with a location on their map that takes them to the next trainer or facility. Or they can choose to skip the tutorial totally foregoing the whole process. They would have the option of returning to the area and going through the tutorial at any time. Being as the option remains for the character to return and go through the tutorial, I don't think they should be given an equal amount of experience to apply to their skills as it would be a way to game the system add get more exp then someone who did the tutorial. Unless the character does receive an amount of exp they can apply to their skills when they choose the option to skip the tutorial, but if they return later to run through the tutorial they wouldn't receive any exp for it, just the knowledge and the coin? I'm still unsure on this part really. Would this satisfy your desire to begin the game with some skills? It would aid the new player by giving them knowledge and information about roles, skills and the game world before they are turned loose in the game world.
Gotta agree with this. If your chosen alignment is hampering your play style,then maybe you picked the wrong alignment. If your role is dependent on a certain alignment, and your having trouble maintaining that alignment, then perhaps you should rethink your chosen role? I will play my character the way I've always played my character and let the alignment chips fall where they may :D
But you've got to remember that while Dwarves aren't as fast as say Elves, their increased STA means they can run for longer distances then an Elf, meaning when the Elf has stopped running the Dwarf will keep on trucking for some time, making up the difference in movement speed easily. I'm in favor of this. Logical racial traits just make sense to me. Not only are Gnomes slower then humans, but their size gives them greater chance to dodge as well as making them a bit harder "to hit". Such racial traits balance out in the long run and add to the uniqueness of each race.
When did anybody say druids have no animal companions? I seem to recall the exact opposite being stated: Druids will for sure have animal companions, but multiple pets will probably be avoided. I'm pretty sure that Ryan mentioned Druid animal companions would be included as a different thing from the "pets" in the crowdforger poll thread. I recall it because I thought it was cool that he included the animal companion to support the Druid role, and it made me think that Druids in PFO might be real Druids instead of what most MMOs toss out there as Druids.
I think it would be really cool to see ultra rare spawns, like an ancient dragon, or a hugely powerful lich, world boss type mobs that once defeated drop unique items, artifacts that could be held by cities or groups. These would surely become coveted items that could be spoils of war. Off the top of my head I'm thinking of a certain black bastard sword that's possessed by a demon that grants power to the wielder which grows as its used in combat. :D Such unique items could become world quests as rumor of the bearers spread across the land, spawning a race to see who can organize a group large enough to defeat the creature and claim the item. Good stuff!
IMO, the above statement describes the difference between Neutral and True Neutral. Where neutral is apathetic to good/evil, law/chaos, and mainly self absorbed, or at least predominately concerned with its self. True Neutral on the other hand is very involved in the struggle of law/chaos, good/evil. It must be in order to maintain a balance and prevent one extreme from rising above the other.
To me Druids have always been the sort of Eco-warrior against any sort of harm to nature. Their loyalty is to the wilderness, to animals and trees. The original wild man of the woods. This puts them at odds with crafters and harvesters, trappers and settlements. Because of this, they have only nature to call upon when threatened. Having an animal companion but also having the ability to call all the small creatures to come to the Druids aid. Usually Druids live solitary lives, but at times they are known to join with a loose confederation of other nature lovers when some great danger threatens. In PFO Druids will be members of CCs, and settlements. But I expect to see many Druids choosing to live in the wild, away from civilization. I would love to see the ability to plant trees added to the game, enabling Druids to plant groves to dwell in. A few games have this feature, Wurm and Archeage are two of those. I could see settlements forming pacts with Druids where the harvesters agree not to clear cut forests, selectively harvesting trees, and the Druids provide an early warning system warning of trouble before settlements stumble upon it themselves. I will be interesting to see how the interplay between Druids and settlements play out. I look forward to seeing how GW handles the Druids spells and abilities.
I forgot to mention, Judas Priest ftw! As does Rush! :D
As near as I can tell, they will be black sheep, just like CE are. |