Goblin Squad Member
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I starting this thread to see who wants to play druids. What their dreams are and their fears would be in PFO in terms of the game mechanics.
I see the druids being pretty much the same as the bandits, not having a settlement called home, but rather scattered through out the lands. Druids would by far be living in the wilds, the dangerous terrain, in order to keep with the theme of being a druid. Away from the protection of settlements, regardless of settlement's alignment.
I see druids not having a guild as such, but a loosely connected group of characters with a common goal of looking after nature.
Similar to bandits having hideouts, we the druids would not have settlements full of various buildings and a kingdom boundary that is home to the settlement. Druids transverse the boundaries of kingdoms. Yet druids would have some simple structures to perform their tasks, and to live in. Structures would mainly be huts, stone hedges, secret groves, faerie circles, etc that are scattered throughout the wilderness. Though there may be a structure in a neutral settlement that the druids could use.
At the moment, there is not much for the druids in terms of the alignment flags.
At least Ryan said, the druids should get their animal companion. That is very good news for us.
So how should the druids go about forming a 'secret' druidic convenient, working together at times to repair nature, defend nature from gross misconduct. Hey, the druids supposed to have a secret language after all for communication.
So other druids out there, what are your ideas, concerns, etc of being a druid in PFO.
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I'm really interested in playing a druid of Lamashtu or Rovagug (Chaotic Neutral in both cases).
I like the idea of druids manipulating the environment. Entangle spells, yes, and perhaps spells that 'animate' trees (turning them into hazards if you come near) and all that. I also like the idea of wild shaping to spy on other players, of course.
Basically, I think druids could be a lot of fun in a player-driven MMO. It'd be cool to have loose organizations based on protecting hexes from development, along with organizations working with others to keep logging fairly manageable. Maybe even druid-centric bandit groups dedicated to spiting civilization any way they can. Druids are able to call the natural world around them to arms, and that'll be neat in a game driven by buildings and settlements.
IMO to have an alternative kind of Hideout similar to a Druid grove would be very nice.
What would be the mechanical difference? I don't see why druids can't just hide in hideouts like the rest of the misfits. ;D
That's an interesting idea, actually. Especially if the druids have allies/members of their organization who aren't druids (like barbarians, clerics and maybe rangers) and therefore can't enter the hideout. It'd create this little separation between the ordinary characters and the "true" members of the faction.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I wondering if druid skills could be maxed for a group to gain control over wilderness hexes to any meaningful degree (have the upper hand)? Them and Rangers seem to be good pioneering material. I wonder if there will be any incentive for Druids to keep hex states in a state of wilderness? Not very well briefed on the pathfinder background for druids atm.
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To me Druids have always been the sort of Eco-warrior against any sort of harm to nature. Their loyalty is to the wilderness, to animals and trees. The original wild man of the woods.
This puts them at odds with crafters and harvesters, trappers and settlements. Because of this, they have only nature to call upon when threatened. Having an animal companion but also having the ability to call all the small creatures to come to the Druids aid.
Usually Druids live solitary lives, but at times they are known to join with a loose confederation of other nature lovers when some great danger threatens.
In PFO Druids will be members of CCs, and settlements. But I expect to see many Druids choosing to live in the wild, away from civilization. I would love to see the ability to plant trees added to the game, enabling Druids to plant groves to dwell in. A few games have this feature, Wurm and Archeage are two of those. I could see settlements forming pacts with Druids where the harvesters agree not to clear cut forests, selectively harvesting trees, and the Druids provide an early warning system warning of trouble before settlements stumble upon it themselves.
I will be interesting to see how the interplay between Druids and settlements play out. I look forward to seeing how GW handles the Druids spells and abilities.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I like the idea of a Druidic Confederation, even if it is meta-based withour own teamspeak server so we can keep one another informed of goings-on.
I'm with Valandur that we should be the protectors of the wild, defenders of nature, but that we also see the balance of the alignment extremists as part of nature.
We would seek to destroy untended harvesters that may damage the environment, though if there is a PC there then the harvesting can be actually good for the forest.
We would watch the march of armies to ensure they do not wreak destruction on our homelands, the unaligned wilds of Golarian. If necessary we can engage in assymetric warfare with armies that are not properly respectful of the lands they march through.
Regarding the planting of groves... we could plant them as labyrinths. We could use dense stands of woods to try and funnel the city folk where they will do least harm and preserve sacred places.
Yeah, I'm definitely in favor of being able to plant trees. Gotta be able to counter those settlements somehow.
I've always liked druids as solo characters. Plus it appears as though they'll be one of the only with long duration shape changes. Could be quite functional with some sort of flight mechanic.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I am really excited to be playing a druid, specially if he can live in the wild rather than in a settlement. He will be minding is own business and probably protect his piece of land if there is an intruder (PC or NPC).
Although I will not trust the explorers, adventurers and city folks, I would be willing to affiliate myself with other druids, and possibly the Echo Woods faction.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I fully support this thread as my dream would be to play a druid of Lamashtu. Granted I see myself playing this regardless of how the actual game turns out, sense there is no clear classes. Still some more druidy stuff down the magic tree would be awesome... GIVE ME POLYMORPH GOBLINSWORKSHOP!!!! Lamashtu demands it!
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Goblin Squad Member
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I've always liked druids as solo characters. Plus it appears as though they'll be one of the only with long duration shape changes. Could be quite functional with some sort of flight mechanic.
I suspect soloing will still not be optimal. The design is focused on interplayer involvement and is unlikely to adequately reward that level of risk.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If Druids form a network across the wilds, and have a way to stay in communication, then Druids will have powerful, and actionable, information.
Much of any success such Druids would enjoy long term will depend on how rigorously they can avoid playing favorites and reliably act in the interest of nature, rather than in the interest of one or another faction or power.
Perhaps many Rangers and many Rogues will choose to be with the Druids, at least those who ar moderate, avoiding extreme alignment behaviors.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would like there to be two different mechanics for harvesting:
1. where the harvesting itself is slower, because the player takes without beeing destructive(for example, planting new trees after cutting one down, or hunting old and ill animals, not hunting while the young are raised,...)
2. for fast and high profit, where the player takes what he can as fast as he can(cutting down acres of a forest, setting forrestfires to create farmland, dumping the mining waste into a river)
And then i`d like druid skills to find harvesting sides of the second type.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would like there to be two different mechanics for harvesting:
1. where the harvesting itself is slower, because the player takes without beeing destructive(for example, planting new trees after cutting one down, or hunting old and ill animals, not hunting while the young are raised,...)
2. for fast and high profit, where the player takes what he can as fast as he can(cutting down acres of a forest, setting forrestfires to create farmland, dumping the mining waste into a river)
And then i`d like druid skills to find harvesting sides of the second type.
There may be a niche here for Druids. Generally what parameters are involved in resource harvesting?
1. Type of resource
2. Locating a resource
3. Extraction rate
4. Replenish rate
5. Mob attraction level (severity of)
Possibly any potential parameter could be influenced by Druid skills?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Maybe CCs could hire druids (or use the ones they have among their members) to replant the forests they scavengered.
Well this makes me curious, if Druids can be employed (contracted) to manage resources in the wild so that they are replenished faster, are larger sources and associated duties eg "tame aggressive creature"? This would fit with Druids being out in the sticks more also.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Maybe CCs could hire druids (or use the ones they have among their members) to replant the forests they scavengered.Well this makes me curious, if Druids can be employed (contracted) to manage resources in the wild so that they are replenished faster, are larger sources and associated duties eg "tame aggressive creature"? This would fit with Druids being out in the sticks more also.
Now that is an interesting role for druids in PFO, working with settlements to keep the wilderness clean of crafters actions. Could even work with settlements to place a penalty on destructive operations, to fund the revitalization of the land.
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Goblin Squad Member
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To me Druids have always been the sort of Eco-warrior against any sort of harm to nature. Their loyalty is to the wilderness, to animals and trees. The original wild man of the woods.
This puts them at odds with crafters and harvesters, trappers and settlements. Because of this, they have only nature to call upon when threatened. Having an animal companion but also having the ability to call all the small creatures to come to the Druids aid.
Usually Druids live solitary lives, but at times they are known to join with a loose confederation of other nature lovers when some great danger threatens.
In PFO Druids will be members of CCs, and settlements. But I expect to see many Druids choosing to live in the wild, away from civilization. I would love to see the ability to plant trees added to the game, enabling Druids to plant groves to dwell in. A few games have this feature, Wurm and Archeage are two of those. I could see settlements forming pacts with Druids where the harvesters agree not to clear cut forests, selectively harvesting trees, and the Druids provide an early warning system warning of trouble before settlements stumble upon it themselves.
I will be interesting to see how the interplay between Druids and settlements play out. I look forward to seeing how GW handles the Druids spells and abilities.
I like this whole approach quite a bit. As for Druidic Pacts, you can find good examples (Treaty of Wildwood comes to mind). Though given the overall goal of settlement fostering, I'm not sure how much more anti-settlement activity would want to be fostered.
Druids keeping in touch seems like a good idea to me. Even those who join alliances can still prioritize keeping their fellow wardens informed.
I'm not sure druids should really prioritize taking down settlements, since settlements are going to be built no matter what and we'll just mark ourselves as targets if we pick fights with everyone. Rather, we should pick (independently or no) particular areas and just try to keep them safe.
Protect, rather than avenge.
Incidentally, if anybody's interested in starting a loose Chartered Company based around protecting general druidic values, I'd be up for it. Otherwise, I think it'd be best that we just keep in touch.
That's exactly what I expect some druids to be doing. I personally plan on escorting merchants, so I may end up attaching myself to a settlement if they're willing to try something like your suggestion.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If Druids form a network across the wilds, and have a way to stay in communication, then Druids will have powerful, and actionable, information.
Much of any success such Druids would enjoy long term will depend on how rigorously they can avoid playing favorites and reliably act in the interest of nature, rather than in the interest of one or another faction or power.
Perhaps many Rangers and many Rogues will choose to be with the Druids, at least those who ar moderate, avoiding extreme alignment behaviors.
It would be really, really cool if somebody were able to convince players to join a meta-organization which demanded loyalty to itself over all other affiliations. Because such an organization is not a kingdom/settlement, it would not be able to declare war, but I imagine it could ask it's members to follow an embargo or target random attacks directed at a particular group. Of course, players are individuals and so might not agree with the organization's decisions and decide not to participate in a particular action.
It would just be really cool to have some organization in the game that could not be easily targeted (no settlement) but which could affect conflicts: "After our last expansion into CE territory, the Druids convened a congress and narrowly rejected a motion to declare full support for our enemies. Dare we continue our holy crusade?"
I would join on my Destiny's Twin ;)
Why not play a druid that works with a settlement to ensure open spaces and parks are incorporated within the settlement planning? Having a "Central Park" within the city could be a great idea and might require some management to ensure it's safety and health.
The Devs have hinted that they aren't going to create an entire Druidic type settlement. But they might go for allowing settlements to add natural aspects, parks, trees, plots filled with flowers etc.. To their settlement. Like adding a garden amid several buildings and parks in place of a structure to create a more natural setting.
It's worth asking about..
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Goblin Squad Member
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I certainly support a loose confederation of Druids and like-minded player-character/players. Perhaps a centralized message board with limited teamspeak capability would serve as common medium.
Yet how should it be organized? Members should be immune to in-game repercussions, not using or mentioning in-game character names, and always expecting, assuming, that the board is penetrated by agents of other interests.
Even if we established a ring of insiders at this early date we should expect that betrayal is inevitable unless, and perhaps even, if we are limited in membership.
Therefore I suggest that membership should be open, but that coterie or 'cells' should form within it known only to one another, self-limiting to contain any damage caused by intrigue.
I agree that subterfuge is hard to avoid in a loosely-organized group. If the druids ever needed to convene to make a decision, of course, there would be an easy technique: have a location where they can convene, then make sure everyone who wants to have a say shows up in person.
The Druidic language should probably play into this as well--I certainly hope it shows up in the game somehow. A druid-only code is exactly what could come in handy to keep things contained.
I'm intrigued by your suggestion, Being--exactly what do you mean when you refer to these cells?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I agree that subterfuge is hard to avoid in a loosely-organized group. If the druids ever needed to convene to make a decision, of course, there would be an easy technique: have a location where they can convene, then make sure everyone who wants to have a say shows up in person.
The Druidic language should probably play into this as well--I certainly hope it shows up in the game somehow. A druid-only code is exactly what could come in handy to keep things contained.
I'm intrigued by your suggestion, Being--exactly what do you mean when you refer to these cells?
Well, If Druidism is to be an effective yet asymmetric force in defense of the wild in Golarion, and in particularly among the River kingdoms, then the druids should seldom gather openly, should remain secretive to prevent our 'neutralization' or elimination.
It is like in my science fiction novel: the Aldebar, decendents of scientists who rebelled, learned to not establish their home on another planet because to place all that they cherish at the bottom of a gravity well is to invite destruction. Instead they live among the asteroids of various star systems. Never again can anyone simply move asteroids into the pull of gravity to bombard the homeworld into ruin.
So too should the Druids assemble together in small cells of five or seven, never too many, avoiding over-centralization to deny any enemy the ability to strike all our hearts. If we are infiltrated it is only the cell that is exposed, and not the whole of our confederation. Compartmentalization limits damage.
Yet at the same time we will on occasion need a way to give the alarm, to call to arms, to share plans and tactics (in the abstract, of course). Eventully we will know one another and a new order may emerge, but in times of trouble remember the strongest of plants is made of the tiniest of cells, and the tallest tree began as a mere seed.
Where one of us is threatened, there nature is threatened, and so are we all threatened. In the forest we would have drums and birdbone whistles. Here, we have the internet.
And how would we go about ensuring that these cells are formed?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yeah I would also expect it to be infiltrated early on, but I imagined a different approach. I was thinking that the best way to combat the whole idea of espionage is design the system with the assumption that everything is public knowledge. In other words, who cares if somebody knows if you're a part of the organization?
As in your example, the 'members' are residents of various settlements, meaning they cannot easily be targeted. I imagine some settlements, especially those at the idealogically extreme alignments, would not allow these people (who may be seen to have allegiance to another power; see Catholics in various portions of American history) to be residents. However, I expect there would always be several settlements that would welcome them, either for idealogical reasons or because threats of reprisal fall flat due to their own power, distance from the threat, or their ability to call on other similarly accepting settlements to aid in their defense.
The organization I am imagining would be more of a loose confederation of individuals than anything, and the individuals would mostly be highly nomadic, willingly. Their presence in a settlement and their activities in the hex would likely end up helping the settlement, but they may not be dedicated to actively furthering the settlement's interests, and they would leave the settlement if their own interests (potentially shared with those of the meta-organization, but not necessarily) were at odds with the settlement's.
I imagine that there would be regular (monthly?) meetings in which members can discuss things they have seen recently and suggest further surveillance of situations and potential actions to be taken. If enough people agree that something should be done, the 'congress' can make a general recommendation of an appropriate response. Members will decide individually what part, if any, they will have in following the congress's recommendation.
I assume that some individuals may choose to take action before the congress recommends it, while others will always wait for the congress's recommendation. I imagine that those that suggested that action be taken, are closest, or are affected by the offending party would be the first to take action, while some far away may not take action even after a recommendation if they have their own local concerns.
Of course, you would have to get the majority to follow the will of the congress, otherwise, what's the point? I'm not sure how you could make it work... I just think it would be awesome. I would join on my DT; do the whole settlement thing on my main, use my twin for a somewhat more random semi-RP metagame.
I think the best way to make sure people follow the will of the congress is to simply place a rule that those who wish to vote must abide by the overall decision. If you don't want to risk that, don't vote. If you break that rule, you're ejected.
I also think that meetings should be fairly rare. There will be no overall "druids" chat.
In fact, an alternative to the cell idea is to just have a very few know the group's full population. Otherwise, a druid will only know those druids he's met elsewhere--and he won't know for sure if they're a member. The "keeper" would be able to point certain druids to communicate with others, if need be, but he would never reveal to anyone the entire roster list.
This person would have to be someone trustworthy--preferably someone not affiliated with any external organizations. If a reliable keeper could be determined, I think this would be much more practical than the rather disorienting cellular system.
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Goblin Squad Member
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...looking after nature ... working together at times to repair nature, defend nature from gross misconduct.
...
At the moment, there is not much for the druids in terms of the alignment flags.
Unlike in the real world, nature will look after itself. They're not going to let people clear-cut the forest, strip-mine every plot of land, and pour industrial waste in the rivers. OOC, the simulation isn't going to run that deep. IC, I guess those harvesting resources are careful not to trash the place they're living in; they don't $#!+ where they eat. If you run around jumping every miner, hunter, or lumberjack you see, then you're just a bandit with a flimsy rationalization.
The flags do not map to class roles, they map to alignment poles.
On the contrary, I expect it will be possible to clearcut forests and the like. I think I've heard about it somewhere on the blogs/forums, but I can't recall where right now.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Ont he contrary, I expect it will be possible to clearcut forests and the like. I think I've heard about it somewhere on the blogs/forums, but I can't recall where right now.
I would guess you're remembering a player post. If harvesting wood meant that the actual game objects are forever gone, we'd have a treeless plain before open release. There's probably tree removal for developed hexes where settlements are being built, but if the game remained a wilderness everywhere, there would be nowhere to train anything (including your own skills) beyond basic levels.
I'm a little worried that, if they don't get something to protect, druids are going to be left a little bland. Paladins get to defend justice. Clerics get to defend their god. Seems druids are going to be the odd-class-out among the divine casters (no, rangers do not count).
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Goblin Squad Member
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So I pondered this question last night in light of Kobold Cleaver's and Kakafika's thoughts, and concluded that while the strengths of cell structure may be great for assymetric (guerrilla) warfare and ensuring the survival of the defenders of nature, it also entails certain weaknesses that are most simply overcome by centralization and structure. This leads me to think that any successful Druid-centric culture must have at least one true neutral or NN settlement. For the sake of superior training it should probably best find fulfillment in alliance to both a friendly LN settlement or kingdom and a friendly CN settlement or kingdom (if CN can support an organized kingdom). This should resolve problems of recruition and organization, and probably communication as well.
Otherwise we will be setting up for a drawn-out, agonizing death rather than risking it all for a shot at achieving significance in the long game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I believe there is an intent that the hex will change based on what's going on there.
I don't think you'll see individual trees fall, but I think you might see a forest thin out as a Lumbermill is built.
It's kind of hard to search for this kind of thing unless I remember a keyword...
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Goblin Squad Member
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From Over the Hill and Far Away:
Other point of interest structures might include mines, inns, logging camps, or shrines that function as temples away from settlements.
Crowdforging + 1, Goblinworks + 1 too!
Are we planning on forming a solid group, then, or on remaining a loose organization that comes together when need be?