Banditry - Balancing Mechanic? I doubt it


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Goblin Squad Member

I just wanted to point out a concept that I've seen popping up in various threads associated with bandits that seems to me to be wrong.

That is that banditry is a way of "balancing the market by removing goods."

Allow me to ask one question of those future bandits, what will you be doing with these resources that you acquire from those whom you use the Stand & Deliver mechanic upon?

In order to gain wealth yourself in your chosen profession you will need to spend the gold and sell the products that you acquire from your victims.

All of this will be done on the same market, the in-game market, that your victim would have used which means that you are not "balancing the market by removing a portion of those goods."

All you are doing is redistributing those goods from people who went out and did the work to acquire the goods initially.

So I would ask that those who intend to follow the profession of banditry to stop positioning yourself as a "balancing mechanic."

NPC's, i.e. monsters, dungeons and harvested resources, will add to the economy while other NPC's will remove those items from the economy. Those are the only "balancing mechanics" the game will have unless you intend to destroy everything you acquire from those you hold up.

If you don't destroy the material that you acquire then again, the only thing you will be doing is moving that material from one PC to another.

Goblin Squad Member

When a player is looted, only a PORTION of their non-threaded items can be taken, randomly chosen. The rest is destroyed, instantly and utterly, removing it from the game entirely.

That's what they mean. Killing and looting players does create a sink of items.

Goblin Squad Member

The issue is basically if all the crafters keep making, for example bronze swords, and those bronze swords don't find a way to cease existing then nobody will buy a bronze sword from the crafters since the market will be flooded with a million of them already.

Goblin Squad Member

Xennkari wrote:

I just wanted to point out a concept that I've seen popping up in various threads associated with bandits that seems to me to be wrong.

That is that banditry is a way of "balancing the market by removing goods."

Here is the Dev Blog that is the basis for the claim:

Quote:

The Most Dangerous Game

When players harvest resources far from civilization and then transport them home, they will be at an elevated risk of being engaged by hostile forces. They'll have to worry about monstrous creatures from the surrounding area, and they'll need to be especially worried about other players seeking to profit from their hard labor.

This creates a powerful game dynamic. Going out to get those resources is a pathway to wealth. But to succeed, you'll need help to protect your harvesting crew and your logistics and transport system. Folks who try to extract wealth without effective protection will likely find themselves beset on all sides by those who would forcefully take what they've harvested.

Ultimately, we feel that it should be pretty likely for players transporting valuable goods to be attacked by other players, with an increasingly likelihood as the value and distance they're transporting goods increases. The game economy will make getting into town with a big haul valuable precisely because there are people out there who want to take it from you: if you can get it to market, you get to charge a premium because of all the people that couldn't.

Deciding how much to carry, how many guards to bring, and whether to fight or try to flee when you see a bandit should be significant choices as a traveler. Conversely, player bandits should have to decide whether attacking just anyone is worth it, and whether it's better to make a surprise attack or actually try to extort goods from the traveler first (if they stand and deliver, it triggers none of the consequences).

If you're interested in PvP, this will be a way for you to constructively pursue that style of play without worrying about being condemned by the community for being a jerk, or facing significant mechanical penalties imposed by the game systems.

At the end of the day, if you're killing other players that are uninterested in PvP for no benefit, we want to make the costs significant enough to convince you to do something else, as that's the kind of thing that drives players away. However, if they know they have something valuable and fighting or fleeing from you is the price of profit, suddenly it's worthwhile for everyone. And those opportunities should be worth risking the consequences.

I have included the entire section, so as not to take anything out of context and to allow you to make your own interpretation.

But, my take is, if Merchants are hiring guards, that is another money sink many are not accounting for.

Secondly, Bandits will have upkeep for their hideouts and that will be taking resources out of the market and put directly into maintaining their own abilities to continue their operations.

I commend the Devs for conceiving what appears to be a balanced system. I'm sure that if it ends up not being balanced, it will be tweaked.

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

Being wrote:
The issue is basically if all the crafters keep making, for example bronze swords, and those bronze swords don't find a way to cease existing then nobody will buy a bronze sword from the crafters since the market will be flooded with a million of them already.

Bad example, since weapons and armor will almost always be threaded, and therefore exist in a separate economy from everything else. Anything OTHER than threaded weapons or armor will be destroyed with some frequency though.

Goblin Squad Member

Being wrote:
The issue is basically if all the crafters keep making, for example bronze swords, and those bronze swords don't find a way to cease existing then nobody will buy a bronze sword from the crafters since the market will be flooded with a million of them already.

That thought is out of the context of the thread, but Ill give you a good response.

ALL the easy stuff to build, such as a bronze sword. Will be cheap and have a high number on the market regardless of threading/loot. Its the difficult to build stuff taht will make large profit.

Goblin Squad Member

Xennkari wrote:

I just wanted to point out a concept that I've seen popping up in various threads associated with bandits that seems to me to be wrong.

That is that banditry is a way of "balancing the market by removing goods."

Your concept is valid, but based on an incorrect premise.

You are assuming that most banditry's will be a stand and deliver that are resolved without combat. Most people should be traveling with groups that they believe are strong enough to handle bandits, the bandits will be under the impression that they can overwhelm the players. In this case, one or the other is going to be wrong.

When it comes top layer loot, we know a good portion of it will be destroyed. when it comes to completed goods, having a change in customer, could also require salvaging, to remake it into something with an appeal to someone other than the origional intended customer.

When it comes to carts and caravans... we just don't know if say a succesful bandit can run off with the whole cart, if some is lost in the process etc...

Goblin Squad Member

I think this is something that is going to have to be played with in-game to truly see the outcome. It's easy enough to have an opinion one way or the other.

Goblin Squad Member

If the GW has stated this is one of the goals of the design, expect them to balance and tune it in order to achieve it. Expect them to scrap or rebuild it completely if it doesn't achieve the goals.
Don't expect them to make promises it this stage unless the intent is to keep them.

I don't think anyone has expected that banditry will be a main sink for player crafted items (settlement wars will probably be though), but it is critical for making local economies different.


Banditry as an item sink is lessened substantially with the advent of both SAD and threading.

It doesn't seem to me like bandits are giving up anything besides the element of surprise by using SAD.

Goblin Squad Member

Waffleyone wrote:

Banditry as an item sink is lessened substantially with the advent of both SAD and threading.

It doesn't seem to me like bandits are giving up anything besides the element of surprise by using SAD.

Bandits are giving up surprise and what loot they might have gained from attacking and killing the merchant caravan, gatherer operation, etc.

Assuming a bandit uses a hideout to spring the trap, they will have a pretty good idea of whether or not they would succeed in combat. If they see a well armed caravan, they will let it go by, without springing the trap. If they see a caravan they can take, next decision is to attack or SAD.

In most cases I would offer the SAD because even if it is turned down, we could attack with few consequences.

Goblin Squad Member

Imbicatus wrote:
Being wrote:
The issue is basically if all the crafters keep making, for example bronze swords, and those bronze swords don't find a way to cease existing then nobody will buy a bronze sword from the crafters since the market will be flooded with a million of them already.
Bad example, since weapons and armor will almost always be threaded, and therefore exist in a separate economy from everything else. Anything OTHER than threaded weapons or armor will be destroyed with some frequency though.

'Bronze sword' is an easily understood item so it shouldn't have gotten in the way of understanding the subject. Now it has, because of fault-finding.

The OP's issue is an impression that those who wish to be bandits are trying to excuse their behavior by describing that behavior as an item drain. In fact the discussion has been on the economics behind 'item drains', and the discussion involved several people, many of whom may have no intention of playing bandits.

I wasn't talking about the product so much as the economics that form the product's context.

Goblin Squad Member

My apologies folks, I was thinking primarily of transports, carts & caravans being held up as a commoner (gatherer) moves their goods from the camp, farm, mine, etc. to market. And then those goods being hijacked by bandits.

Onishi brought up a good point in that we don't know what the Dev's have have decided will happen to those cart and wagon-fulls of goods when bandits successfully hijack a caravan.

If the system works similar to threaded & unthreaded personal items than yes, I agree bandits will be a resource sink and therefore a part of those important balances necessary to keep prices balanced.

But if they are able to take all the goods then where will those goods go? Into the game economy as originally intended by the folks who spent the time to originally gather the resources. And remember, different settlements will not have separate economies because we will see folks who will trade from one settlement to another thus linking the economies into one in-game economy.

As we have seen, the devs watch the threads and make adjustments to the game if they deem it necessary. We don't have enough information to even know if they have thought of this situation much less what their intentions will be in regards to this situation. But that lack of information has inspired those people who desire to be the wolves to claim to be a part of the scarcity equation as justification for their actions.

I'm pointing out that there is another side to this thought.


Bluddwolf wrote:
Bandits are giving up surprise and what loot they might have gained from attacking and killing the merchant caravan, gatherer operation, etc. -snip-

I see your point regarding attacking operations that exceed 'players carrying things on their person'. The operation would probably try to give you 'less than everything they have including unthreaded gear', which is what they lose if you kill them.

Bandits are better with a SAD if they can get more than the unthreaded item that drops + noninventory items, but can't expect to get more than all unthreaded items + noninventory items, which is what the victims will lose if killed.

Still seems like the bandits will just always rob players blind with extreme SAD demands, and kill the victims if they don't give up as much/nearly as much as if they were killed and looted.

Goblin Squad Member

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Waffleyone wrote:
Bluddwolf wrote:
Still seems like the bandits will just always rob players blind with extreme SAD demands, and kill the victims if they don't give up as much/nearly as much as if they were killed and looted.

You may be underestimating the motivation to receive maximum daily reputation gain, by accepting the SAD.

Bandits that have a good business sense will value having a high reputation. We know we will be Chaotic, but that in itself is not a negative. Most if not all of our bandit, stealth, thievery skills will be Chaotic based, so we want the higher Chaotic alignment standing.

We will only shift towards Chaotic and Evil, if we attack and kill without the SAD offer being made. If the SAD offer is made and rejected, and the killing begins, result is still chaotic and no reputation bonus, but not loss of reputation or shift to evil.

Bandits that wish to be Chaotic Good, and with a high reputation, will have to always accept SAD offers and do some good things on the side.

Bandits that wish to be Chaotic Neutral, with a high reputation will have to accept some SADs and perhaps do fewer good deeds. Once in a while these bandits will forego the reputation and it accept an evil shift if the prize is big enough.

Bandits that wish to be Chaotic Evil, with a high reputation, will have to accept SADs and do mostly evil acts that don't hurt reputation. Probably run with an Assassin Flag while grouped with bandits running the Outlaw Flag.

Bandits that wish to be Chsotic Evil, with low Reputation, will just "let it burn, baby burn" and kill and steal everything they can.

In my estimation, bandits can not be Lawful , because the mere act of attacking (for anyone) is chaotic. Theft is unlawful, not evil, at least according to the morality of D&D and PF PnP and likely that will remain the same in this MMO.

Goblin Squad Member

@ Waffleyone
Which is why I'm thinking the SAD amount will be either what the victim chooses to offer, or a percentage of what the game calculates to be his carried cash (rather than whatever the outlaw might dream of).

It would then be up to the outlaw to accept the deal or not. Coin is far more portable than copper ore.

Goblin Squad Member

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If bandits continue to be unreasonable (excessive SAD or just keep killing caravans), then the merchants/transporters/harvesters will just invest in more guards and cover the extra costs by selling at a higher price. Its all economics :D

Goblin Squad Member

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I don't think of killing caravans as 'profitable'

Better to steal a little forever than a lot once and have the caravan decide to take a different route or hire a bucketload of mercenaries

Goblinworks Executive Founder

The presence of bandits is an additional cost to meechants, reducing the number of merchants who want to trade. The reduced presence of merchants reduced the benefit to banditry, reducing the number of bandits.

It's a negative feedback system; balance is automatic.

It even provides some reduction in elasticity in the price of raw materials, because the marginal cost to haul increases with total haulage because banditry becomes more profitable/prevalent. If the fixed costs dominate, there could even be lower average costs as marginal costs increase with a range.

Goblin Squad Member

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Waffleyone wrote:

Banditry as an item sink is lessened substantially with the advent of both SAD and threading.

It doesn't seem to me like bandits are giving up anything besides the element of surprise by using SAD.

Well Bandits will have to be OUTLAW flagged in order to issue a SAD, which essentialy means they are open game for anyone that wants to engage in PvP.

Without being OUTLAW flagged, anyone initiating combat against them would suffer all the negatives of being flagged an ATTACKER themselves...so it seems a very reasonable system...as long as there is a reasonable cooldown for PvP flagging and unflagging so you can't deflag the instant in becomes inconvenient to you.

Remember on the PvP flag system...Outlaws are not going to be subject to combat with just potential victems but also people out there specificaly HUNTING OUTLAWS.

Remember, you can't assume that a hideout will offer the bandit perfect protection from the people hunting them....A bandit hunting team will likely have people skilled at detecting such things...from there it becomes a contest of skills. YMMV.

Goblin Squad Member

With SAD there needs to be an option for negotiation. Care must be taken to prevent such negotiation from becoming circular. The steps might be:

1. Bandit initiates SAD with their offer.
2. Victim has a chance to counter offer or reject.
3. Bandit makes final offer.
4. Victim accepts or rejects offer.
5. SAD resolution or Combat

Negotiation between 2 and 3 can take place outside of the SAD context itself.

Banditry itself won't remove items from the market or world. It just provides another access to PVP which does remove things from the world. As has been stated, protection, payment, or losses are part of the cost of doing business and the market values will rebalance themselves to cover that.

Goblin Squad Member

The Wiseman of the Wilds wrote:

I don't think of killing caravans as 'profitable'

Better to steal a little forever than a lot once and have the caravan decide to take a different route or hire a bucketload of mercenaries

Well unless it is completely insignificant, sooner or later your merchant will likely change routes anyway, Heck resources are going to move around, so the same route isn't going to be profitable forever even if he considers your banditry too trivial to be worth it. Sooner or later people will raise up the work to flush things out simply on principle.

Agreed there certainly is a valid point, a time and a place for each. Certainly will be times when it is better and worse of an idea, times when the payoff will be worth it, as well as times when it will be better for both scenarios. I highly doubt there will be any one side that is always better or worse.

Goblin Squad Member

If two kingdoms go to war then, after the first few battles many many players will have been killed over and over and over and will certainly be short on aceptable gear and in more or less dire need of some resources.

The occasional banditry is never the focus of this system, you are aiming too low assuming it is.

That said banditry will be profitable, though not hugely so and only with good preparation, going after the most valuable resources only found in the remote wilds. Someone carrying basic resources from hamlet a to village b will most likely not see banditry. But someone carrying the super rare pure ore from the middle of nowhere to the only big player city that can smelt this ore should better bring friends.

Goblin Squad Member

SAD has nothing to do with "balancing economy" it is basicaly extortion. Banditry is part of the game, is a legit roleplaying style, but is not "necessary to balance economy", or any public utility activity. The only benefit I see banditry bringing to economy is to create a market for security. So bodyguards can make a good profit by protecting caravans.

The only way stuff is going to disappear is loot after death or to sell it for npcs (what may be very disadvantageous economically to the seller).

People forget that weapons, armors etc will also need repair, and even if the market is saturated with low level stuff, crafters will still have profit by repairing people's equipments.

Also, GW guys did not tell us what happens with the stuff inside de caravan wagons, if the trader that owns it dies. The only thing we know is that what you carry with you in your inventory will disappear after being looted. It is very unlikely (and incoherent) that caravan goods are going to disapear as well.


LordDaeron wrote:


People forget that weapons, armors etc will also need repair, and even if the market is saturated with low level stuff, crafters will still have profit by repairing people's equipments.

Also, GW guys did not tell us what happens with the stuff inside de caravan wagons, if the trader that owns it dies. The only thing we know is that what you carry with you in your inventory will disappear after being looted. It is very unlikely (and incoherent) that caravan goods are going to disapear as well.

The last word I heard, it was from Stephen, indicated that at the present time they had no plans for gear being damaged from use. Thus no repair of items or gear. I'm sure that could change, but I believe they are feeling that the husks poofing aft PvP will be enough of an item drain so they don't need item decay.

I've been pondering what happens to stuff in wagons after a bandit raid, whether the encounter ends in a PvP battle, or successful SAD completion. If the bandits demand, and receive say 1/2 of the cargo,how will they transport it? We know that GW plans to have encumbrance so the bandits can't just grab all the material and run off. Who gets the wagon? Can wagons be stolen? There will certainly be bandits who assault caravans that won't have access to a wagon of their own to transport their ill gotten gains. Just something I've been pondering.

Goblin Squad Member

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Valandur wrote:
LordDaeron wrote:


People forget that weapons, armors etc will also need repair, and even if the market is saturated with low level stuff, crafters will still have profit by repairing people's equipments.

Also, GW guys did not tell us what happens with the stuff inside de caravan wagons, if the trader that owns it dies. The only thing we know is that what you carry with you in your inventory will disappear after being looted. It is very unlikely (and incoherent) that caravan goods are going to disapear as well.

The last word I heard, it was from Stephen, indicated that at the present time they had no plans for gear being damaged from use. Thus no repair of items or gear. I'm sure that could change, but I believe they are feeling that the husks poofing aft PvP will be enough of an item drain so they don't need item decay.

I've been pondering what happens to stuff in wagons after a bandit raid, whether the encounter ends in a PvP battle, or successful SAD completion. If the bandits demand, and receive say 1/2 of the cargo,how will they transport it? We know that GW plans to have encumbrance so the bandits can't just grab all the material and run off. Who gets the wagon? Can wagons be stolen? There will certainly be bandits who assault caravans that won't have access to a wagon of their own to transport their ill gotten gains. Just something I've been pondering.

I hope they change their minds, because item decayng is not just an economic issue but also adds a lot to realism.

In relation to wagon cargo and SAD, maybe bandits can use extra mounts such as mules or donkeys to carry it. Or they will carry just what they can carry with them and let the rest untouched.

Goblin Squad Member

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LordDaeron wrote:
... item decayng... adds a lot to realism.

There are swords made hundreds of years ago, that have been used in battle, that are still perfectly functional. Decay makes sense if the item is not properly maintained, but it isn't an absolute.


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LordDaeron wrote:


I hope they change their minds, because item decayng is not just an economic issue but also adds a lot to realism.

In relation to wagon cargo and SAD, maybe bandits can use extra mounts such as mules or donkeys to carry it. Or they will carry just what they can carry with them and let the rest untouched.

Yea, I lean toward item decay too, but we will just have to see what they decide.

I've not heard if mounts will have packs to carry good or not. I would love to see pack animals like donkeys or even exotic creatures used as pack animals, to me it makes perfect sense to have wagons of various sizes, pulled by a variety of animals, as well as single pack animals that individuals can use. These animals could go places that wagons couldn't and would allow prospectors and those searching for resource locations to range far and wide in their search, as well as transport samples and tools etc..

Goblin Squad Member

The consumable and craftable equipment buffs, which I imagine as whetstones and armor patches/overlays & oils (to combat rust, rust monsters, and certain varieties of gelatinous cubes) is supposed to replace the craftables demand that would otherwise be manifest as item wear & repair.

I think this may be because of a problem in large engagements where your armor eventually falls apart broken, leading to players carrying a spare set, as we did in LotRO fairly often.

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
LordDaeron wrote:
... item decayng... adds a lot to realism.
There are swords made hundreds of years ago, that have been used in battle, that are still perfectly functional. Decay makes sense if the item is not properly maintained, but it isn't an absolute.

Indeed, but that is true for masterwork weapon and armor, however, the ordinary ones are not of the same quality. And, at least in the beggining, we will be using ordinary stuff most of time.

Armor, even the best ones, were constantly being repaired and shields are the itens that need more frequent repair after combat, especially the wodden ones.

Maybe they could do masterwork itens long lasting but the ordinary itens needing constant repair.

Goblin Squad Member

I view maintenance and decay of items about the same as mandatory natural bodily functions. I don't want to see my character squatting off in the brush any more than I want to see him polishing his armor or repairing some stretched leather strap. Those things simply happen off-camera. If you want something special from the oil/patch/overlay, that's different. That's not simple maintenance.

For the wagon-load of raw goods taken as ransom or spoils of war, if they are already loaded on the wagon it would be ridiculous to assume that the wagon is not included in the ransom. Otherwise, a bandit expecting the possibility of a bulky haul is going to have to provide his own wagon and transport for the goods. You could also limit the wagon contents to things that can be carried by an individual, so if you can't claim the wagon (it got broke during the fight, the animals got killed, etc), you could haul the goods off one at a time.... tedious, potentially dangerous, but you reap what you sow and should plan better next time!

Goblin Squad Member

Sintaqx wrote:
I don't want to see my character squatting off in the brush any more than I want to see him polishing his armor or repairing some stretched leather strap.

A buddy at work is into games like these, and was just talking the other day about this very thing. Someone on one of the boards he reads suggested that no one actually role-played anything with their character when the player got up to use the restroom. My buddy said "Speak for yourself, when I need to take a break from the game, I run myself behind a tree or a bookcase". I do believe he was suggesting that his character would normally consider "behind a bookcase" to be a perfectly acceptable place to relieve himself.

Goblin Squad Member

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You mean that isn't what bookcases are for?

No wonder the Librarians kept chasing me away.

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
Sintaqx wrote:
I don't want to see my character squatting off in the brush any more than I want to see him polishing his armor or repairing some stretched leather strap.
A buddy at work is into games like these, and was just talking the other day about this very thing. Someone on one of the boards he reads suggested that no one actually role-played anything with their character when the player got up to use the restroom. My buddy said "Speak for yourself, when I need to take a break from the game, I run myself behind a tree or a bookcase". I do believe he was suggesting that his character would normally consider "behind a bookcase" to be a perfectly acceptable place to relieve himself.

I had an interesting group of friends that I played a tabletop game with a while ago. At one point someone needed to use the restroom during a game and so he stated that he was ducking behind some rocks while he was away and would catch up. When he returned and asked what he missed, he was informed, 'Nothing. We followed you to the rocks and watched.'


Sintaqx wrote:

I view maintenance and decay of items about the same as mandatory natural bodily functions. I don't want to see my character squatting off in the brush any more than I want to see him polishing his armor or repairing some stretched leather strap. Those things simply happen off-camera. If you want something special from the oil/patch/overlay, that's different. That's not simple maintenance.

Actually you will be squatting in the bushes when it comes to your arms and armor. If I'm understanding the mechanics of the whetstones, armor kits, failure to use them will result in your arms and armor being less effective then someone who utilizes them.

Goblin Squad Member

Valandur wrote:
Sintaqx wrote:

I view maintenance and decay of items about the same as mandatory natural bodily functions. I don't want to see my character squatting off in the brush any more than I want to see him polishing his armor or repairing some stretched leather strap. Those things simply happen off-camera. If you want something special from the oil/patch/overlay, that's different. That's not simple maintenance.

Actually you will be squatting in the bushes when it comes to your arms and armor. If I'm understanding the mechanics of the whetstones, armor kits, failure to use them will result in your arms and armor being less effective then someone who utilizes them.

Important bits emboldened. The whetstones, armor kits, and the like are not there to keep your stuff from disintegrating, but to enhance it for use. You can chose not to use them and your stuff won't deteriorate... unless it wasn't threaded when you got yourself ganked because you weren't using it.


I don't have the quote, it's from a post in the forums that GrumpyMel found. It briefly details these items (whetstones, armor kits) and their use. What it describes is that you will have to use these items or your armor and arms will not be as effective as those of someone who does use them. We don't have details, but I imagine you would be operating at a penalty if you don't use them. So basically it will be like item decay and repair.

Sorry if I wasn't clear before.

Goblin Squad Member

@Valandur & @Sintaqx, I think you're both bumping up against the "buff or debuff" problem. If something is presented as a debuff, people (including me!) don't like it. If it's presented as a buff, people like it.

If using whetstones gives your sword a temporary buff, people will be okay with it. If failing to use a whetstone gives you a debuff, people will hate it.

That's true even if the actual mechanical effect is exactly the same in both cases.

Goblin Squad Member

Pretty much. Carrot or Stick, buff or debuff. Just as long as I don't have to make sure my belt is oiled each day so it doesn't rot away and cause my pants to fall to my ankles in the middle of combat... hilarious though that may be.


I tried to find the thread I was talking about but couldn't. Rather then going off of memory ill just leave things as they are until we can get more clarification. It's qui the possible that the weapon and armor items could operate like a buff, I really can't say being as I can't find the info I remember reading from.

Goblin Squad Member

Valandur wrote:
I tried to find the thread I was talking about but couldn't.

I found this buried in a larger post about Eve. Is this what you were thinking of?

From Looting, and Salvaging, Intelligent and Yes, size should matter.:

Ryan Dancey wrote:
Instead what I anticipate we will create is a system where you need to combine a consumable resource with your weapons and armor to get maximum effect from them, and those resources won't survive the trip to the grave. So crafters will make lots of those resources instead of making lots of swords and armor sets. It's unlikely that someone will be just a guy who makes swords. It's much more likely that guy will make sword consumables, and the occasional sword on commission.

Goblin Squad Member

Valandur wrote:
LordDaeron wrote:


People forget that weapons, armors etc will also need repair, and even if the market is saturated with low level stuff, crafters will still have profit by repairing people's equipments.

Also, GW guys did not tell us what happens with the stuff inside de caravan wagons, if the trader that owns it dies. The only thing we know is that what you carry with you in your inventory will disappear after being looted. It is very unlikely (and incoherent) that caravan goods are going to disapear as well.

The last word I heard, it was from Stephen, indicated that at the present time they had no plans for gear being damaged from use. Thus no repair of items or gear. I'm sure that could change, but I believe they are feeling that the husks poofing aft PvP will be enough of an item drain so they don't need item decay.

I've been pondering what happens to stuff in wagons after a bandit raid, whether the encounter ends in a PvP battle, or successful SAD completion. If the bandits demand, and receive say 1/2 of the cargo,how will they transport it? We know that GW plans to have encumbrance so the bandits can't just grab all the material and run off. Who gets the wagon? Can wagons be stolen? There will certainly be bandits who assault caravans that won't have access to a wagon of their own to transport their ill gotten gains. Just something I've been pondering.

Yes, although don't forget they ARE planning on having some consumable being considered a regular part of combat for the person fighting to be operating at peak efficiency with thier gear. So you might not have your sword break or need repair but you WILL need to regularly apply oil or whetstone (or whatever they decide should be the consumable for it) if you want to use it at PEAK efficiency....that's the effective sink as far as gear goes, the consumable portion that needs to be regularly applied to get the best use of your gear.

Edit: Darn - Nihimon beat me to it...I'm beginning to think he really is a diety..there's some sort of Omniscience going on there ;)

Goblin Squad Member

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You've been nihimoned...

nihimon, vb. :
1. To reference a relevant prior topic within a discussion
2. To provide links to prior topics relevant to a discussion

nihimoned, adj. :
1. having posted a response only to find that while you were crafting your response someone had already posted a response that was not only more clear and concise, but also provided references.

Goblin Squad Member

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Yes, it is generally considered quite an honor among the truly modern intelligensia to have been Nihimoned.


Quote:
You've been nihimoned...

LoL this phrase will see some use I bet!

And yes, that's what I was looking for. I thought there was also information that mentioned your weapons and armor would operate at a deficiency if you didn't apply the consumables. But I guess I mistakenly thought that was part of the information.

Goblin Squad Member

I certainly hope it does!

I went looking for that thread as well and missed it completely. It's interesting to see how many different ways the same bit of information can be read, interpreted, and recalled by different individuals.

Goblin Squad Member

I believe I saw it too. Could it be that the feature hadn't been fully thought through and retracted?

Doesn't sound like GW. It had to be in a thread with an unlikely name. Maybe something like 'Looting and salvaging' or some such.

Wait... wait... I have a premonition... <hand to forehead, brow creased in concentration>

Yes...yess... Nihimonized even before I said it!! Amazing!!

Goblin Squad Member

Being wrote:

I believe I saw it too. Could it be that the feature hadn't been fully thought through and retracted?

Doesn't sound like GW. It had to be in a thread with an unlikely name. Maybe something like 'Looting and salvaging' or some such.

Wait... wait... I have a premonition... <hand to forehead, brow creased in concentration>

Yes...yess... Nihimonized even before I said it!! Amazing!!

So silly I didn't know whether to chuckle or groan.

Yes, the noise I made was pretty weird.

Goblin Squad Member

I would imagine that Bandits would help remove items from the economy the same way non-Bandit adventurers would: drink a potion here, fire an arrow there, maybe even tearing apart useless gear to reforge into more useful gear.

The UnNamed Company will undoubtedly have a division for the production of its own potions, etc. This could work as an item sink as well, as a pile of herbs from a passing caravan would be more appealing than searching for some plants in a random hex, and not every caravan will be willing to just hand over what they reasonably should in a polite SAD; the rest could be a loss if the caravan should die.

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

Where it gets weird is when you read SAD as Seasonal Affective Disorder.

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