After looking through the first book I find I'm on the fence about this AP


Ruins of Azlant

Scarab Sages

I was rather looking forward to an AP exploring the "ruins of Azlant" but from what I can see there is going to be minimal actual Azlant involvement for the first 4 modules then some possibly in the 5th and hopefully a decent amount in the 6th. I shall have to see how this develops.


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I'm looking forward to that too. My take is that, given it's a mysterious bit of world lore, it can't be easy for just anyone to learn about. This AP is a bit of a slow burn, it seems to me.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I dunno, the first book already had way more Azlant then we'd gotten previously.

So, I'm happy so far. :-)

Scarab Sages

About a third and some backstory which is nice, what worries me is that the next 3 modules from the blurb don't look like they'll actually involve Atzlan much at all. Still we'll see, like I said I'm on the fence for now.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

There's also that sweet painting in the forward.

Which is the first time I can remember seeing what an Azlanti cityscape might've looked like. :-)

Grand Lodge Contributor

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Senko wrote:
I was rather looking forward to an AP exploring the "ruins of Azlant" but from what I can see there is going to be minimal actual Azlant involvement for the first 4 modules then some possibly in the 5th and hopefully a decent amount in the 6th. I shall have to see how this develops.

What type of Azlant involvement were you hoping to see? I don't have a copy of Book 1 yet, but Book 3 (which I wrote) should have quite many locations where you can learn about ancient Azlanti magic, religion, technology, and culture. I'm sure the other adventures also have interesting lore about Azlant.


Well I'm sold now. That sounds sweet.

Silver Crusade

Agree with the OP that the summary of the AP made the AP look more

Spoiler:
aboleth-heavy
than ruins-heavy. But if Mikko Kallio promises lots of ruins, I'll continue to be excited.

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4

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I can shed a little light, with as few spoilers as possible.

Azlant Presence:

Book 1 is scattered with a touch of Azlanti history.
Book 2 features at least 4 major sites from Azlanti history, but remember that 10,000 years have passed and they haven't sat undiscovered.
Book 3 takes you into the heart of a lost Azlanti temple to a now dead god.
Book 4 involves getting to a major Azlanti site.
Book 5 is literally stepping around in Azlanti history.
Book 6 is a lore bomb.

Scarab Sages

Ah thanks that's what I was hoping for. I'll keep getting these then thanks and yes like Eliandra said the summaries did make it look like it would be more focused elsewhere.


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Although the environment and setting are heavy into Azlant/Azlanti ruins, the campaign plot-line (which is what the descriptions are summarizing) looks to be focused around the main antagonist (who is not, after all, Azlanti).


Pathfinder Companion, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Well, no, but most certainly pivotally tied to their demise. To learn about the Azlanti requires understanding what led to their downfall.


Yeah, I'm looking forward to the "Gazetteer" in Book 2. And then all the Azlanti lore after that. This is definitely one I don't want to run until I have all 6 books in hand.


Pathfinder Companion, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I'm in the same boat. I don't know when we'll be done with Giantslayer (just about to enter the training level of book 5), which could be as soon as December or as late as next March, depending upon my buddy's schedule. If the former, I'd have to come up with some fillers. Also, I'd want the pawns to start with, too, which probably won't be available until March. Having full knowledge of this AP, along with CoCT and Ironfang Invasion (my other possibilities) is preferred.


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taks wrote:
I'm in the same boat.

I see what you did there...

Paizo Employee Managing Developer

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Senko wrote:
I was rather looking forward to an AP exploring the "ruins of Azlant" but from what I can see there is going to be minimal actual Azlant involvement for the first 4 modules then some possibly in the 5th and hopefully a decent amount in the 6th. I shall have to see how this develops.

I can confidently say that readers of this Adventure Path will learn more about Azlant than what we've published so far. It's nothing super ground-breaking every day all day, but there are tons of little details sprinkled throughout the whole AP. I'm not sure where you got the idea that there would be minimal information on Azlant, but if that was from me then I apologize.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

I can't wait to get my greedy hands on this!


Adam Daigle wrote:
Senko wrote:
I was rather looking forward to an AP exploring the "ruins of Azlant" but from what I can see there is going to be minimal actual Azlant involvement for the first 4 modules then some possibly in the 5th and hopefully a decent amount in the 6th. I shall have to see how this develops.
I'm not sure where you got the idea that there would be minimal information on Azlant, but if that was from me then I apologize.

I can assure that you gave no such impression, Mr. Daigle. I have been excited about this AP since its announcement, and receiving the first installment has done absolutely nothing to alter that excitement! This is the first AP I've collected since Hell's Rebels. Looking forward to the future books!

Paizo Employee Managing Developer

Thank you! I look forward to them getting out into the wild. It's been really fun working on this Adventure Path.


Adam Daigle wrote:

Thank you! I look forward to them getting out into the wild. It's been really fun working on this Adventure Path.

We are looking forward to them as well!

The potential PCs for the Ruins PbP I plan on running have made some pretty stellar submissions! Can't wait to see them in action.

Scarab Sages

Adam Daigle wrote:
Senko wrote:
I was rather looking forward to an AP exploring the "ruins of Azlant" but from what I can see there is going to be minimal actual Azlant involvement for the first 4 modules then some possibly in the 5th and hopefully a decent amount in the 6th. I shall have to see how this develops.
I can confidently say that readers of this Adventure Path will learn more about Azlant than what we've published so far. It's nothing super ground-breaking every day all day, but there are tons of little details sprinkled throughout the whole AP. I'm not sure where you got the idea that there would be minimal information on Azlant, but if that was from me then I apologize.

Not you no just a general impression from the blurbs that the focus would be elsewhere until the 5th module i.e. on the main villain and his forces.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

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Hey all,

I think Adam Daigle and Robert Brookes already gave excellent answers, but as the author of Book One, may I add a few thoughts?

Book One is about the fledgling colony and is meant to set the scene. That was my job, but I say that without being defensive. You have to understand, I always had a rough idea of what is to follow my adventure. We authors receive each others outlines and we know what the other folks are working on. Additionally, I'm proud to say, with Adam's help and leadership, the authors actually talked to each other a lot more than usual—and we influenced each other's ideas. We strived for continuity. I made every effort to foreshadow.

But.. perhaps this says it all. In another thread someone remarked that there are no sub-rules for colony management and administration. That was by design, because that is not the destiny and fate of the PCs (again, unless the GM wants to provide for it). They have bigger and more fantastic things ahead of them.

That said of course, there's nothing wrong with settlement building. Ultimate Campaign is there just for that reason. What we're providing with these chapters is an adventure to shake the foundations of the earth and provide details and insights the likes of which have never appeared elsewhere.

With thanks to Adam, his bosses like Erik and James, and to my fellow authors.

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Jim Groves wrote:

Hey all,

I think Adam Daigle and Robert Brookes already gave excellent answers, but as the author of Book One, may I add a few thoughts?

Book One is about the fledgling colony and is meant to set the scene. That was my job, but I say that without being defensive. You have to understand, I always had a rough idea of what is to follow my adventure. We authors receive each others outlines and we know what the other folks are working on. Additionally, I'm proud to say, with Adam's help and leadership, the authors actually talked to each other a lot more than usual—and we influenced each other's ideas. We strived for continuity. I made every effort to foreshadow.

But.. perhaps this says it all. In another thread someone remarked that there are no sub-rules for colony management and administration. That was by design, because that is not the destiny and fate of the PCs (again, unless the GM wants to provide for it). They have bigger and more fantastic things ahead of them.

That said of course, there's nothing wrong with settlement building. Ultimate Campaign is there just for that reason. What we're providing with these chapters is an adventure to shake the foundations of the earth and provide details and insights the likes of which have never appeared elsewhere.

With thanks to Adam, his bosses like Erik and James, and to my fellow authors.

Also, having discussed this a friend, it's my belief that Book 1 plays better than it reads. That sounds like damnation with faint praise, so let me qualify that!

Book 1 is all about solving a mystery that is presented to the players very shortly after they arrive at the colony - namely, "where are all the colonists?" It's a compelling question, and one that will drive the players to make decisions based upon what they learn and what they believe is going on. That's good adventure design.

However, as the Judge, who knows what happened to all of the colonists, there's not a mystery for us to solve. The investigation is free-form, which means there's not a narrative thread for us to follow - that narrative is constructed during play by the players. It therefore defies conventional narrative structure, having a beginning and end point but very little requiring any point in the middle happening before or after any other. Finally, the reward that lore monkeys are looking for - the nuggets of what Azlanti culture was like - are necessarily light in this book. We'll get more, as stated above, but it just isn't there yet.

I'm looking forward to reading where the AP goes, and what secrets we can learn about Azlant, but I also understand why some people haven't been wowed by the opening. I would encourage people to give the book a chance, though. It does as good a job of encouraging player agency in a published format as I've ever seen.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

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Misroi wrote:

Hey all,

Also, having discussed this a friend, it's my belief that Book 1 plays better than it reads. That sounds like damnation with faint praise, so let me qualify that!

Actually, as phrases go, I really really like that! Not offended in the slightest.

Misroi wrote:
Book 1 is all about solving a mystery that is presented to the players very shortly after they arrive at the colony - namely, "where are all the colonists?" It's a compelling question, and one that will drive the players to make decisions based upon what they learn and what they believe is going on. That's good adventure design.

Thanks!

Misroi wrote:
However, as the Judge, who knows what happened to all of the colonists, there's not a mystery for us to solve. The investigation is free-form, which means there's not a narrative thread for us to follow - that narrative is constructed during play by the players. It therefore defies conventional narrative structure, having a beginning and end point but very little requiring any point in the middle happening before or after any other. Finally, the reward that lore monkeys are looking for - the nuggets of what Azlanti culture was like - are necessarily light in this book. We'll get more, as stated above, but it just isn't there yet.

No, there isn't as much direct lore. I really had to save for the other folks. That said...

You just made me look at the chapter differently, even though I wrote it. (I'd love to say it was my master plan, but I'll be honest!)

The PCs are coming across a mystery, but you can almost think of it as an interruption of a story already in progress. The story of the first colonists. A story which thus far is not coming to a happy end. The two main adversaries are not expecting the Peregrine or the PCs. Nothing has been planned for their arrival. They're stumbling across an old crime scene and monsters have moved in the neighborhood. When they first walk on the beach, there's little that is conspiring against them. (That changes of course)

Oops, better watch the spoilers in this thread. You get the drift.

The PCs are introducing a change in a narrative already in progress.

Misroi wrote:
I'm looking forward to reading where the AP goes, and what secrets we can learn about Azlant, but I also understand why some people haven't been wowed by the opening. I would encourage people to give the book a chance, though. It does as good a job of encouraging player agency in a published format as I've ever seen.

Well thank you, one of the nicest compliments I have gotten. I hope they give it a chance too, just so they can experience the cool stuff the other authors prepared.


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Mr Groves, I like the opening chapter enough to adapt/convert the whole kit and kaboodle to Starfinder, if that is any consolation or praise. :)


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I find it unfortunate that I will be starting my next AP in september or October and so won't have all of this AP. Otherwise based on the first module it would be a strong candidate however I don't run an AP until I have read all the books so I can change and improvise without risking making a mess of something I like in a later book


Based on the first-time-this-has-been-done approach taken by developer and authors for this AP I suspect you have less risk to worry about.

If not ... What Would Dr Jones Do? ("Make it up as I go along.")

Scarab Sages

I will add since the author of book one is actually looking at this (and the managing director) as an adventure book 1 is what I was expecting i.e. you arrive at a colony and find the expected colonists missing. There's no evil plot moving against you (yet) just an abandoned colony with some critters moved in. I have no problems with that at all, my issue wasn't even entirely that the ruins of Azlant lore was light in this. We did get some very nice nuggets it was as I said with the way the blurbs are written it seemed like Ruins of Azlant (the campaign) was going to be equally light until at least the last two modules.

I'd be quite happy to play/run this module as a module and like I said I was still on the fence about the campaign as a whole. Just a few too many bad experiences with books/games/shows where the blurb/summary/plot hook sounded interesting and then the meat just didn't actually have much involvement at all till "Towers of the drowned dead" instead focusing on undersea cultures and the big bads people. I can admit I was wrong about that and I'll be interested in seeing where you go with the campaign.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

finally getting around to reading the first book.

it's really, really good. had scanned through it and wasn't seriously impressed (particularly coming off the barnburners of books 1 for Strange Aeons and Ironfang Invasion) but this is a really, smart, cool book to start an AP.


Jim Groves wrote:
The PCs are coming across a mystery, but you can almost think of it as an interruption of a story already in progress. The story of the first colonists. A story which thus far is not coming to a happy end. The two main adversaries are not expecting the Peregrine or the PCs. Nothing has been planned for their arrival. They're stumbling across an old crime scene and monsters have moved in the neighborhood. When they first walk on the beach, there's little that is conspiring against...

I'm excited about this AP, but I'm mildly curious about this bit. How is it that the adversaries aren't expecting the Peregrine? The colonists in the first batch know that the second batch is coming, so

Spoiler:
surely Ochymua can learn that from Rayland and Eliza.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Uqbarian wrote:
Jim Groves wrote:
The PCs are coming across a mystery, but you can almost think of it as an interruption of a story already in progress. The story of the first colonists. A story which thus far is not coming to a happy end. The two main adversaries are not expecting the Peregrine or the PCs. Nothing has been planned for their arrival. They're stumbling across an old crime scene and monsters have moved in the neighborhood. When they first walk on the beach, there's little that is conspiring against...

I'm excited about this AP, but I'm mildly curious about this bit. How is it that the adversaries aren't expecting the Peregrine? The colonists in the first batch know that the second batch is coming, so

** spoiler omitted **

i don't think they really care. and if you, the dm, really care, just handwave it and say that the Peregrine was delayed by several months.


Yakman wrote:
i don't think they really care. and if you, the dm, really care, just handwave it and say that the Peregrine was delayed by several months.

Reading through it again, I think the villains do know more colonists are coming, but like you say, they're not too worried. (They did successfully deal with the first lot, after all, so they have reason to be confident they can do it again.)


Just had a thought: I wonder if this AP will have any foreshadowing of

(possible spoiler for the future):
the Azlanti Star Empire

Dark Archive

UnArcaneElection wrote:

Just had a thought: I wonder if this AP will have any foreshadowing of ** spoiler omitted **

There isn't really reason for that to be a thing since 1) pathfinder and starfinder are separate things 2) ASE is based on some lost azlanti colony :P

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UnArcaneElection wrote:

Just had a thought: I wonder if this AP will have any foreshadowing of ** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

Expectation Management: As an FYI Starfinder was in the early days when we were working on RoA. That said, Thurston and I did discuss the fact that Azlant did indeed have interplanetary exploration going on, which was canon before Starfinder. I don't know if any of those discussions ever manifested, but there's no reference to it in my adventure. But the concept itself is canon Golarion, and there's plenty of room to make your own inroads on that concept. But it's not narrative touchstone of the main story.

Paizo Employee Managing Developer

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Robert Brookes wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:

Just had a thought: I wonder if this AP will have any foreshadowing of ** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
The Adventure Path does mention the fact that the Azlanti had already gotten off planet and had establilshed a foothold on the moon—all things mentioned before in canon. And there *might* be an easter egg in Pathfinder #122 that slipped in during development. I'm a little surprised no one's found it.
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Adam Daigle wrote:
Robert Brookes wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:

Just had a thought: I wonder if this AP will have any foreshadowing of ** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **

there IS!? :O

Paizo Employee Starfinder Society Developer

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Also, barring EXTREME DEVELOPMENT CHANGES, I know that my adventure (the big finale) includes some pretty nifty revelation of certain things. I don't want to go into too much detail, but during our "scheming" phase, I pitched some pretty radical stuff that Adam (and a few other important Paizo stakeholders outside of the AP team) were totally on-board with. I can't wait for them to be seem.

Admittedly, Pathfinder #121 (Jim's opener) includes a very important visual clue, that we worked together to foreshadow some revelations! *TEAMWORK* :D

Contributor

I am increasingly excited that I'm running this.


Adam Daigle wrote:
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
It's not the two broken planets, is it?
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Uqbarian wrote:
Adam Daigle wrote:
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
Nope, I put those in. Adam apparently snuck something else that's cool in, the sneaky devil! :D
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