The Hungry Storm (GM Reference)


Jade Regent

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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens Subscriber

This is probably more of a rules question but since it applies specifically to an encounter in The Hungry Storm, I thought I would ask here.

Does Suishen's protection from energy (cold) ability (or any protection from energy (cold) ability/spell for that matter) make a character immune to the Hoarfrost Spirit's Glaciate supernatural ability?


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens Subscriber

*bump*


From the Ice Tomb Hex FAQ:
"The general assumption for effects is if the creature negates the damage from the effect, the creature isn't subject to additional effects from that attack (such as DR negating the damage from a poisoned weapon, which means the creature isn't subject to the poison). Therefore, a cold-immune creature takes no damage from the hex and can't be imprisoned by it."
I'd guess the same thing would apply here, since it's described IIRC as 1d6 Cold Damage + Glaciate.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens Subscriber
Matthew Downie wrote:

From the Ice Tomb Hex FAQ:

"The general assumption for effects is if the creature negates the damage from the effect, the creature isn't subject to additional effects from that attack (such as DR negating the damage from a poisoned weapon, which means the creature isn't subject to the poison). Therefore, a cold-immune creature takes no damage from the hex and can't be imprisoned by it."
I'd guess the same thing would apply here, since it's described IIRC as 1d6 Cold Damage + Glaciate.

Ok, thanks. It was kind of the way I was leaning.


Giving the party access to unlimited Protection From Cold just before they go into a book where most of the dangers are cold-related makes things rather easy for the PCs. I toned down Suishen's powers.

The Exchange

Matthew Downie wrote:
Giving the party access to unlimited Protection From Cold just before they go into a book where most of the dangers are cold-related makes things rather easy for the PCs. I toned down Suishen's powers.

yeah that was a major complaint of mine for the sword.

" at will? come on."

Liberty's Edge

Matthew Downie wrote:
Giving the party access to unlimited Protection From Cold just before they go into a book where most of the dangers are cold-related makes things rather easy for the PCs. I toned down Suishen's powers.

Yeah sadly when we went through this module a lot of the threat from cold was just not there do to the protections offered by Suishen and other protections. Seemed like the setting, which could otherwise have been so rich, suffered from it.

Oh well.


I made Suishen's protection from cold a flat pool of protection that automatically protects the wielder (and remembers how much had been spent if the wielder switches). You couldn't choose not to use it, so it was often an advantage to save it for a big fight with cold monsters, since it would spend itself on environmental cold otherwise.


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A lot of the cold environment encounters were negated by the very fact of the adventure taking the party across the North Pole. Nobody in two groups with completely different people went without Boots of the Winterland, which made the fight against for example Tunuak way less interesting (although I got to dropkick Koya from an icy ledge to the floor 30 feet below, which was fun for everybody but Koya ^^).


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You hardly need the boots. Suishen can also give three people 200 minutes of Air Walk. Combined with the occasional Fly spell, there's very little reason a PC in this adventure ever needs to use the Climb skill, suffer from difficult terrain, or trigger a floor-based trap.


I can't help but think either Suishen was reworked before final printing, or authors beyond book 2 were not given the stats for what the sword would be capable of....we need to come up with a version of Suishen that is still awesome but also not a challenge/adventure ruiner. And maybe. Figure out a better progression order than the vague slaying of servants of the Five Storms.


Carter Lockhart wrote:
I can't help but think either Suishen was reworked before final printing, or authors beyond book 2 were not given the stats for what the sword would be capable of....we need to come up with a version of Suishen that is still awesome but also not a challenge/adventure ruiner. And maybe. Figure out a better progression order than the vague slaying of servants of the Five Storms.

I used a 10 step progression order with better-defined progress. It's toned down at the beginning but mostly stronger at the end (he becomes a +10 equivalent weapon, but the limitation I put right away that his spells only work on the one who carries him and end if you drop him or hand him over remain). They seemed to make him much more usable and less disruptive.


Are there 10 Five Storms high muckety mucks to kill in the AP? I think it was brought up before that there aren't enough Onis to provide for Suishen's full power-up.

prototype00


There is no definition of what a 'Five Storms Oni' is.

Designer

prototype00 wrote:

Are there 10 Five Storms high muckety mucks to kill in the AP? I think it was brought up before that there aren't enough Onis to provide for Suishen's full power-up.

prototype00

I don't tie them to killing Five Storms muckity mucks but instead to a relationship with Suishen (which is enhanced by killing 5SMM)

The Exchange

Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

My group mostly ignored Suishen until the end of Book 4 (we're near the end of Book 5 now) Now I'm sort of playing catch up with Suishen's powers, so every once in a while when there's an Oni encounter, one of them boasts extra loud or declares his actions for the glory of the Five Storms. So far it's worked well to reveal a few powers at an increased pace.

I've also been going with a "You want the sweet sword powers? Then wield the sweet sword." so handing off Suishen is effectively handing off the spell effects.


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With no katana-wielders at the table, a desire to not give the PCs an infinite Protection From Cold just before they traveled north, and not being keen on a single character having the super-sword, I quite radically changed Suishen.

It was an ancestral banner/flag, not a katana (but still retained being sentient and carrying the plot information).

When wielded personally, the bearer gains Inspire Courage as if they were a bard of five levels higher.
When on a caravan, Suishen uses it's experience to telepathically advise a traveller, doubling the effect of a single character's Role.
When affixed to a position of prominence in a building of significance to the Amatatsu line, it provides every ally with 100 miles the bane quality on their weapons against the group who opposes the Amatatsus (in this case, oni). In the last adventure, I intend part of the final palace dungeon crawl being getting to the top to plant Suishen, inspire their army, then head to the Jade Throne for the final confrontation.

I haven't noticed any problems with this thus far.


Has anyone statted up caravan encounters for those as don't use the caravan rules?

The army rules in Wrath of the Righteous so turned us off to group combat rules that we all agreed before we started Jade Regent that we wouldn't be using the caravan rules.

Everything went swimmingly until... Dead Man's Dome.

I need real stats for the Dead Man, not caravan stats.

Has anyone done that already, or do I just wing it?


I used the default Graveknight from Bestiary 3, worked splendidly, so many frozen dead hacked to pieces :-)


A word of advice
Ditch the Anti-life shell and populate the crypts with undead with the Yeti encounter at the end, my players felt like a*!$#%!s after fighting through their den


NobodysHome wrote:

Everything went swimmingly until... Dead Man's Dome.

I need real stats for the Dead Man, not caravan stats.

Has anyone done that already, or do I just wing it?

For the Dead Man specifically, or for the enemies you're fighting? I just had the battle end when the Dead Man showed up.

Discussion linking to older discussions of the same thing.


Matthew Downie wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:

Everything went swimmingly until... Dead Man's Dome.

I need real stats for the Dead Man, not caravan stats.

Has anyone done that already, or do I just wing it?

For the Dead Man specifically, or for the enemies you're fighting? I just had the battle end when the Dead Man showed up.

Discussion linking to older discussions of the same thing.

Oooh! Exactly what I was looking for! Thanky thanky!


In case people are wondering, here is the result.

Short answer: Technically beautiful, emotionally unsatisfying for the players.


looks like its been a year since anyone posted here... In case anyone is still checking or answering this thread, I am in the middle of running the Jade Regent campaign, and at the end of last session, the party just began the Katiyana's Ghost battle in the Uqtaal Necropolis.

I had a question about the Nine-Fold Spirit Sword that the party had just recently discovered in the Tomb of the Shadow:

Should the "3 Charge"/Destroy any Undead Creature option work when used on someone that Katiyana (or any ghost for that matter) is possessing via malevolence? Or does that option only work when the undead creature is hit directly (i.e., must the party first drive Katiyana out of Bormurg - assuming they realized he was being possessed by an undead creature)?


I'm not 100% certain, but I think the 3-charge effect wouldn't work on Katiyana while she's possessing Bormurg. As I understand it, physical attacks on a possessed creature only harm the creature, not the possessor (and that would include any riders on the damage unless an effect specifically says otherwise). So the party would have to expel her from Bormurg's body first. This is probably why the sword has the 2-charge power, to allow that option for parties who don't have other means of doing it.


Uqbarian - looks like you got this one right. Jason Nelson (author of The Hungry Storm) weighed in via a PM, and said the following:

Jason Nelson wrote:

By rule, you'd need to strike the undead creature directly. The possessing spirit essentially has total cover from anything you do to a creature it possesses, unless it specifically stipulates that it affects the possessing spirit.

That said, it's up to you if you'd like to let it work on a possessing ghost, or an incorporeal undead inside a solid object, or any other oddball case like that. Her saves are pretty good, so there's a fair chance it might not work anyway, but it would pay off the discovery of that item by making it a powerful tool against her. The encounters with Katiyana SHOULD be hard, so you don't want to make it too easy, but it's definitely a reasonable way to run the item.

Whatever makes the ensuing combat more fun for the party is the right answer! :)

THANKS!

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

So my group fought the dragon last night and due to the fact that they had resist energy on were barely injured before they nearly surrounded and killed her in two rounds. So she took a withdraw action (400 ft) and pretty much got away.

The party was pretty bummed that they didn't get to kill her. My question is: The adventure says that the people of Iqaliat praise and invite the party in if they kill the dragon. If they failed to kill her what would my fellow DMs say is their reaction?

In effect she has been driven off and in my eyes has chosen to focus her anger on the party until they are dead and then she will return to punish the village. If she has been driven away does that basically count as killing her?


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rkotitan wrote:

So my group fought the dragon last night and due to the fact that they had resist energy on were barely injured before they nearly surrounded and killed her in two rounds. So she took a withdraw action (400 ft) and pretty much got away.

The party was pretty bummed that they didn't get to kill her. My question is: The adventure says that the people of Iqaliat praise and invite the party in if they kill the dragon. If they failed to kill her what would my fellow DMs say is their reaction?

In effect she has been driven off and in my eyes has chosen to focus her anger on the party until they are dead and then she will return to punish the village. If she has been driven away does that basically count as killing her?

I'd say that doesn't count as killing her. It means she'll focus on the PCs instead of Iqaliat for a while, so they'll get more chances to kill her, but it only postpones her revenge. If the PCs have any local guides with them, maybe the guides could suggest waiting at her lair so they can try again when she comes back. (Ulf or Skygni could also think of this.)

If they go back to Iqaliat without having killed the dragon, the villagers would probably have mixed feelings. 'So, you folks are tough enough to almost kill a dragon. That's good! But you failed, and now she's probably angrier than ever and will come back to kill us all after you leave.'

At the least, I'd say Sonavut doesn't give them the sashimono of comfort until Vegsundvaag is dead. The villagers will grudgingly accept the PCs' presence, but they won't throw a big feast, and they won't give a 25% discount on caravan equipment.


Hi all, just read this adventure and it seems to have nothing to do with the overall plot. Apart from replacing or skipping it has anyone tried updating it to fit in with the plot more. Off the top off my head making Katianya a wind ya and one of the five storms works but would still make most of the adventure not-relevant. Thanks.


Solomani wrote:
Hi all, just read this adventure and it seems to have nothing to do with the overall plot. Apart from replacing or skipping it has anyone tried updating it to fit in with the plot more. Off the top off my head making Katianya a wind ya and one of the five storms works but would still make most of the adventure not-relevant. Thanks.

I had changed Katianya from a half-fiend sylph to a half-oni sylph who had grown up among the Frozen Shadows in Kalsgard. In her monologue, she explained that Goti Runecaster, the only survivor from Ravenscraeg, had contacted her and asked her to get revenge on the party.

And that link to the Frozen Shadows seemed to make little difference. It was a connection, but it was not a plot-worthy connection.

In retrospect, my players weren't looking for a tight plot. They were looking to play with Minkaian themes. For example, the backstory of the ninja Ebony Blossom is that she had crossed over the northern ice cap from Minkai with her sensei Master Spider, but Master Spider had sacrificed his life protecting the caravan from yeti. The player had picked yeti as a common northern hazard, with no foreknowledge of the adventure path. When the yeti tribe appeared in The Hungry Storm I planted Master Spider's belongings in their hoard so that Ebony Blossom learned that she had avenged her master and gained honor. That was the kind of connection my players liked.

The Hungry Storm has a few Minkaian connections. Emphasize the history of the Path of Aganhei and that Aganhei Amatatsu was one of Ameiko Kaijitsu's ancestors. Maybe Ulf Gormundr has a carefully drawn copy of Aganhei's map (see Map of the High Ice, page 62), still written in Minkaian. Maybe the annual caravans had set up waystations along the route and they were classic Minkaian architecture. Maybe the Sashimono of Comfort (also page 62) requires a Minkaian ritual to keep active.


Thanks for the feedback.


Necroing this to ask if anyone has a map of the Uqtaal Necropolis appropriately sized for Roll20 (140 pixels per square). I have been going nuts trying to get the darn thing to fit the Roll20 grid, to the point where I'm thinking either the map grid in the module is not made up of squares or I personally am some sort of non-Euclidian being.

Dark Archive

I'm scrapping parts of the caravan rules... just looking for advice on more because this is all I've encountered so far.
#1 the consumption is WACK. I can't build a caravan that CAN MAKE a 94 day journey. Everyone starves around day 40-50. They simply can't bring enough food. So I'm knocking off the "wagon" consumption (wagons don't eat anything, though the horses do). Anyway, without this, 5 cooks and 3 scouts can keep the party from starving to death before day 100.

I have 19 travelers in the party, as I hired 5 drivers. So this means that consumption would have been 27 or 28 (depending on wagon). With a cargo of 52. See how that doesn't work? 520/28 is 18.5 days food. 520/19 27 days. Reduced 10 by cooks and 9 by scouts = a caravan that can support itself (0 consumption). But that also means that 8 NPCs / PCs are busy all day. +5 drivers. That's 13 spots taken. Leaving 6 spots open.

The "necessary" Fortune Teller... that leaves 5 adventurers. Able to do what they want to help.

That's where I think the Caravan was "supposed" to be. Able to sustain itself across the top of the world without everyone starving to death before they get to Minkai. If the players all went off and died, they'd still make it. It is kind of crazy that the players would HAVE TO be caravan "employees" to even survive the journey.

We'll see how the combat goes when I get to it. But CR -4 seems to be the prevailing wisdom... or base it on the actual caravan level instead of the player's level, and do separate encounters for each.


The caravan rules were not well thought out.

That being said, consumption is the least of the problems. Players can buy a Ring of Sustenance for 2500gp and reduce their consumption to 0. Or use a Sustaining Spoon to reduce total consumption by 4. The typical hand-wave for the flavor text (HA!) of the spoon is to use Prestidigitation, or just anyone with a cooking skill, to provide flavoring to the food it produces. And they should buy or craft a Bag of Holding Type IV to store provisions.

Yes, this is a real "tax" on the players, but...this AP is also a crafter's dream. They will be able to spend so much time crafting magic items that it will more than make up for this up-front cost. The AP even hands them a Cube of Frost Resistance, which makes the environment a non-issue for crafters on the second half of the crossing.

If you throw out caravan combat, which you absolutely should because it is utterly broken and completely boring, players can spend their precious caravan feats on "Efficient Consumption" and "Faster" multiple times. These have a significant impact on consumption and range, respectively.

They should also be springing for enhanced undercarriages (which Ameiko can pay for if they are feeling the squeeze on cash), as increasing speed also increases the caravan's range, and increasing range decreases the amount of provisions that are needed.

The real problem with the caravan rules is that some of them don't even make sense. "Wainwright" is not a daily job. "Trader" is not a daily job. "Spellcaster" is not a job at all--it's just a designation that lets you qualify for other jobs.

But the real, real problem with the caravan rules is that it doesn't reveal the rules of crossing the Crown of the World until right before the players need them. Which means they don't have the tools they need to plan properly (preferably between games so you don't bring a game session to screeching halt) before they start. The players need to know the cold weather rules that will apply, in advance. They need to know the distances, in advance. They need to know where they can resupply, in advance. These are things they should be able to learn even before they get to Kalsgard, or at least once they hire their guide.

But the real, real, real problem with the caravan rules is that they are too much work for you and for the players. Way, way too much work. Unless you have someone in your group who likes spreadsheets, and even they will find it trying.

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