PaizoCon Adventure Path panel: Just some general info


Pathfinder Adventure Path General Discussion

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

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There may be some minor spoilers for past APs here. Nothing for War for the Crown onward, though.

Introductions started off with Crystal amusingly complaining that she had to sit in the office next to Ron, who's an optimist. I think there was even hissing.

Most of the discussion centered around the final two 1e adventure paths, details of which I've posted elsewhere in the forum, but there were some other notes:
* I asked if they were thinking of doing 3-volume Pathfinder APs (like the Starfinder ones), but they were uncertain. They're still waiting to see reaction to the shorter Starfinder APs before making any decisions.

* They haven't decided what effects of the previous APs will be reflected in 2e Golarion. James is pushing for them all. I believe they said the Worldwound will definitely be closed. It's also "very possible" a chunk of Cheliax will be taken out in a new map (to reflect Hell's Rebels). The status quo after War for the Crown may also be reflected.

* They initially said they would "probably" do another evil AP, but then started downplaying that. It didn't sound like it would be anytime soon. They did point out that many of the APs could be played with evil characters now.

* They discussed the areas they're most interested in:
- Ron: Exploring fringe-ier areas (he specifically mentioned Iobaria).
- James: More Varisia or Tanglebriar
- Crystal: Southern Garund (mentioned Afro-futurism)
- Adam: Also more off-map areas, specifically Arcadia (this led to a brief chat I discussed in one of the spoilered posts I posted earlier).

* Someone asked if they were going to do another kingdom-building-style AP, which led to discussion of something they previous considered from Crystal. Dubbed "Queenmaker," it would have taken place in the Ironbound Archipelago.

* They're more likely to do something in Jalmeray than Vudra.

* They also discussed wanting to revive the module line as there are some stories that are better suited for that than an AP. In the Secrets of Golarion panel, James specifically mentioned wanting to do something with the Test of the Starstone in that vein ...


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Thanks for posting this info


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I dearly hope that 3-part AP's will never be a thing, unless they happen apart from the main AP line. I'd have to cancel my suscription every time they happen to make a point. My group hates adventures where they never get to higher levels.

Thumbs up for more Varisia. Love the place. A return to Minkai would also be very appreciated.


A Kingmaker-esque AP in the Ironbounds would be interesting. Ideally, I was hoping for Ruins of Azlant to be a bit more expansive and include aspects of kingdom building.

I'd more or less given up on Paizo ever expanding east into Iobaria and finishing up the coast between the Stolen Lands, Galt and the Castrovin Sea. That whole area seems rife for all sorts of new ideas. But baked into whatever AP there will be there needs to be an explanation as to why trade funnels through Taldor and not straight across the mountains and plains to the sea. So, it's a bit tricky, that.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Personally I'm fine with the three aps well see how the starfinder one turns out but the idea is solid and we could have ones that start at higher levels


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The two three part Starfinder APs are deliberately sequential in level range so they can be run as a “two plot” AP. The material available for play at any given level is unaffected - the loss is a big, overarching plot from go to whoa.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
magnuskn wrote:
I dearly hope that 3-part AP's will never be a thing, unless they happen apart from the main AP line. I'd have to cancel my subscription every time they happen to make a point. My group hates adventures where they never get to higher levels.

I feel the exact same way about evil adventure paths. "Hell's Vengeance" is the only time I've (voluntarily) stopped my subscription and will stop it again for any other evil AP. My group doesn't like them and have no use for them.

Dark Archive

Jenner2057 wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
I dearly hope that 3-part AP's will never be a thing, unless they happen apart from the main AP line. I'd have to cancel my subscription every time they happen to make a point. My group hates adventures where they never get to higher levels.
I feel the exact same way about evil adventure paths. "Hell's Vengeance" is the only time I've (voluntarily) stopped my subscription and will stop it again for any other evil AP. My group doesn't like them and have no use for them.

There are still usable material even in APs you don't plan to run, stuff like the bonus articles and bestiaries and even npc entries ._.

I honestly don't get the point of "Making a point" since unless you are part of majority, its unreasonable to be like "My tastes is objectively right, so clearly paizo should stop doing this thing other people like"

(that and as said before, 3 part aps seem to have idea of being able to mix and match them, level wise they are still pretty much the same, its just that overarching plot is two overarching plots instead of one)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Me personly i doubt ill ever cancel my subscription unless it's money related at the very least i tend to enjoy reading the aps even if there not something i want to run. At the very least i get some cool lore and some ideas


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
CorvusMask wrote:
I honestly don't get the point of "Making a point" since unless you are part of majority, its unreasonable to be like "My tastes is objectively right, so clearly paizo should stop doing this thing other people like"

It is exactly the opposite of unreasonable. It is the only way you can make a point about which a publisher will always take note. If you show them that you are unwilling to pay for their product if they continue in this direction you dislike. I did the same Jenner2057 with Hell's Vengeance and it seems to have worked for the moment.

I am actually honestly baffled by your statement. This is the exact same way people try to convey to corporations that they are displeased with their product all over the world, by simply not buying it. Words are cheap and easily ignored, money talks.

Dark Archive

magnuskn wrote:
CorvusMask wrote:
I honestly don't get the point of "Making a point" since unless you are part of majority, its unreasonable to be like "My tastes is objectively right, so clearly paizo should stop doing this thing other people like"

It is exactly the opposite of unreasonable. It is the only way you can make a point about which a publisher will always take note. If you show them that you are unwilling to pay for their product if they continue in this direction you dislike. I did the same Jenner2057 with Hell's Vengeance and it seems to have worked for the moment.

I am actually honestly baffled by your statement. This is the exact same way people try to convey to corporations that they are displeased with their product all over the world, by simply not buying it. Words are cheap and easily ignored, money talks.

But doesn't that contain an implication that you are more important customer than rest of us? <_< That is the part I find unreasonable.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
CorvusMask wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
CorvusMask wrote:
I honestly don't get the point of "Making a point" since unless you are part of majority, its unreasonable to be like "My tastes is objectively right, so clearly paizo should stop doing this thing other people like"

It is exactly the opposite of unreasonable. It is the only way you can make a point about which a publisher will always take note. If you show them that you are unwilling to pay for their product if they continue in this direction you dislike. I did the same Jenner2057 with Hell's Vengeance and it seems to have worked for the moment.

I am actually honestly baffled by your statement. This is the exact same way people try to convey to corporations that they are displeased with their product all over the world, by simply not buying it. Words are cheap and easily ignored, money talks.

But doesn't that contain an implication that you are more important customer than rest of us? <_< That is the part I find unreasonable.

First off you seem to be thinking that just because you want stuff like "evil-aligned AP's", you are somehow instantly in the majority. Your opinion doesn't represent "the rest of us", it represents "you".

If only I don't want those kind of AP's, me withholding my money won't change the devs mind, anyway. Only if there are enough customers who do the same it would have the effect I intended it to have. Given how James apparently expressed reluctance for more of those evil-aligned AP's, my best guess is that enough people did not buy those modules for it to have a clear impact on their AP sales for that period.

I'm still baffled that you don't get those concepts. They have been in effect in the gaming industry for decades by now. If you produce products your fans don't want, they'll stop buying them. Trying to blame other fans for not supporting unwanted products is ridiculous. Paizo doesn't have an inherent right to my money, they have to earn it by making a product I want. That doesn't make me a more important fan than you and others, that makes me a normal customer who can decide where to spend his hard-earned money.

Dark Archive

You are making mistake there by assuming I was talking about evil aligned APs(while I wouldn't mind more of them, they are hard to do because by nature they tend to give lot of restrictions to players in order to make them not just randomly kill everyone including their supposed allies. So while having one as option is nice, you can't really have them regularly as result), I was talking about your word choice.

There is nothing wrong with voting with wallet, but saying you have to cancel subscription every time to make a point makes it sound like you think your subscription is more important than other people's subscription from Paizo's perspective and that they would take notice of you particularly ending subscription everytime which is confusing notion to me.

The way I see it, "Making a point" is something a group does, so that is what I meant by majority: I'm not seeing huge out cry of people standing united to make a point, I'm seeing people being mixed about the idea. I did articulate that badly though, I do have unfortunately often so please forgive me on that. But anyway, whenever individual by themselves is "Making a point", they are doing something notable. The point of "Making a point" is doing something the entity you are making the point for can't ignore it, so that is why I understood it as you implying your subscription is that important.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood the meaning in it, but that is how I understood it. Also, stop assuming that I'm assuming myself to be majority while I'm misunderstanding what you say :D Seriously, just because I made a mistake doesn't mean you are allowed to make same mistake as well.

(That said, I did make that post after waking up and I'm still feeling groggy even though its 4 hours later, so just another point for "I shouldn't post while tired")


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I was mentioning the "evil AP's" thing as an example. I could as well have said "3 part AP's".

I still have no idea why you think stating that I will cancel my suscription as appropiate makes me want to be "more important" than other customers. It's just me voicing my opinion and then putting some economic weight behind it. Like multitudes of customers of other products have done over the years all over the world. You don't have to start a mass movement first to have the right to do that.

Dark Archive

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It was most likely me just being grumpy after waking up and overreacting, sorry about that.


motteditor wrote:

There may be some minor spoilers for past APs here. Nothing for War for the Crown onward, though.

Introductions started off with Crystal amusingly complaining that she had to sit in the office next to Ron, who's an optimist. I think there was even hissing.

Most of the discussion centered around the final two 1e adventure paths, details of which I've posted elsewhere in the forum, but there were some other notes:
* I asked if they were thinking of doing 3-volume Pathfinder APs (like the Starfinder ones), but they were uncertain. They're still waiting to see reaction to the shorter Starfinder APs before making any decisions.

IMO relying on Starfinder to gauge doing 3-volume Pathfinder APs is not the way to go. Not every story requires a 1-17+ campaign to tell. Similar to the pre-3e "module series" one can have a series of 3-chapter APs covering sequential 'level bands' tell a longer story or a series of shorter ones. A "nine chapter AP" is also well within the realm of the possible, or even a 12-chapter AP, if the story is deemed awesome enough to warrant development on this scale.

Suggest letting the needs of the campaign-story determine the length and level 'bands' for future Pathfinder APs.

motteditor wrote:


* They haven't decided what effects of the previous APs will be reflected in 2e Golarion. James is pushing for them all. I believe they said the Worldwound will definitely be closed. It's also "very possible" a chunk of Cheliax will be taken out in a new map (to reflect Hell's Rebels). The status quo after War for the Crown may also be reflected.

A few of the 1e APs will have no visible effect on the campaign setting, so those can be safely ignored. Concur with James Jacobs in using the 'good guys win, more or less' endings of the rest of the APs in setting up the 2e campaign setting.

motteditor wrote:


* They initially said they would "probably" do another evil AP, but then started downplaying that. It didn't sound like it would be anytime soon. They did point out that many of the APs could be played with evil characters now.

Skull and Shackles was, for all practical purposes, an Evil campaign. Many of the APs can be played with evil-aligned characters ... but most of them are not particularly Evil-friendly, being more difficult to play for most Evil groups as compared to 'traditionally' Good-and-Neutral groups. A more Evil-friendly campaign/AP would probably need to involve an area the development team is willing to shred.

Perhaps Galt as something of an "Evil Mirrorverse" of War for the Crown.

Being the right-hand minions of Choral the Conqueror in savaging Iobaria.

Exiles so vile that they could not be easily executed for whatever reason, but they could be severely gimped (strip most character classes down to their skivvies and they are nowhere nearly as dangerous), Super-geased to never again cross 'the River Eyeseen'/[insert geographical border feature here] and dumped off 'convict island'-style to do or die on their own. The same in reverse, heroes so bold that a mighty foe elected to exile them as above to a wilderness more than a thousand miles away after taking all of their stuff. 'You have earned my respect. For that I banish you henceforth never to return, under pain of permanent death.' Naturally, Our Villains/Heroes would eventually figure out a way to break their exile before exacting their vengeance.

motteditor wrote:


* They discussed the areas they're most interested in:
- Ron: Exploring fringe-ier areas (he specifically mentioned Iobaria).
- James: More Varisia or Tanglebriar
- Crystal: Southern Garund (mentioned Afro-futurism)
- Adam: Also more off-map areas, specifically Arcadia (this led to a brief chat I discussed in one of the spoilered posts I posted earlier).

  • Casmaran and Arcadia beg for significant future adventuring mayhem.
  • Tanglebriar, sign me up. That place should be pretty exciting to deal with!
  • I'm not clear on what Crystal means by 'Afro-futurism' - MCU Wakanda-esque I guess? - but southern Garund always struck me as the proverbial Dark Continent. Not the 'infested with cannibal savages' kind, rather the 'pre-historic horrors lurk beneath the insect-and-monster-infested ultimate hostile wilderness' kind. The Isle of Dread writ across most of the entire continent kind. Perhaps more serpentfolk lay in torpor? A great temple of gold lurks in the bowels of at utterly hostile jungle eager to devour foolhardy treasure seekers in a Lost World environ?

motteditor wrote:


* Someone asked if they were going to do another kingdom-building-style AP, which led to discussion of something they previous considered from Crystal. Dubbed "Queenmaker," it would have taken place in the Ironbound Archipelago.

No idea where this archipelago is, but "Queenmaker" (applying the lessons learned from Kingmaker) would be pretty sweet.

motteditor wrote:


* They're more likely to do something in Jalmeray than Vudra.

Jalmeray thanks to its 'mascot' sounds much more interesting than Vudra. Or am I thinking of Jandalay? Hrmmmm....

motteditor wrote:


* They also discussed wanting to revive the module line as there are some stories that are better suited for that than an AP. In the Secrets of Golarion...

In the same vein as 3-chapter APs, some stories are better suited to smaller formats, or a series of smaller formats, than the 'standard' 6-chapter AP.

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

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The Mad Comrade wrote:
Re: The Ironbound Archipelago

From the Pathfinder Wiki: The Ironbound Archipelago is a network of islands in the Steaming Sea off the north-western coast of Avistan. It consists of a chain of islands over 300 miles long. There are often considered to be thirteen major islands (if Mordant Spire is included), and countless minor ones. Many of the islands are uninhabited, but others are able to support sizeable communities. The northernmost islands are generally claimed by various Linnorm Kings. The number varies, as islands often regain independence when a Linnorm King dies. Currently, the Linnorm Kingdom of the Ironbound Islands consists of five of the main islands and numerous smaller ones

--

I think the assumption in the panel was this would have been a Viking-esque themed AP, which met with a lot of pleasure. (I know I'd be very interested in such a theme.)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
CorvusMask wrote:
It was most likely me just being grumpy after waking up and overreacting, sorry about that.

No problem, I need an hour to get over my grump after waking up. ^^


motteditor wrote:
The Mad Comrade wrote:
Re: The Ironbound Archipelago

From the Pathfinder Wiki: The Ironbound Archipelago is a network of islands in the Steaming Sea off the north-western coast of Avistan. It consists of a chain of islands over 300 miles long. There are often considered to be thirteen major islands (if Mordant Spire is included), and countless minor ones. Many of the islands are uninhabited, but others are able to support sizeable communities. The northernmost islands are generally claimed by various Linnorm Kings. The number varies, as islands often regain independence when a Linnorm King dies. Currently, the Linnorm Kingdom of the Ironbound Islands consists of five of the main islands and numerous smaller ones

--

I think the assumption in the panel was this would have been a Viking-esque themed AP, which met with a lot of pleasure. (I know I'd be very interested in such a theme.)

That would be fun. Up against some stiff competition from the FGG campaign along the same vein in terms of theme.


motteditor wrote:
The Mad Comrade wrote:
Re: The Ironbound Archipelago

From the Pathfinder Wiki: The Ironbound Archipelago is a network of islands in the Steaming Sea off the north-western coast of Avistan. It consists of a chain of islands over 300 miles long. There are often considered to be thirteen major islands (if Mordant Spire is included), and countless minor ones. Many of the islands are uninhabited, but others are able to support sizeable communities. The northernmost islands are generally claimed by various Linnorm Kings. The number varies, as islands often regain independence when a Linnorm King dies. Currently, the Linnorm Kingdom of the Ironbound Islands consists of five of the main islands and numerous smaller ones

--

I think the assumption in the panel was this would have been a Viking-esque themed AP, which met with a lot of pleasure. (I know I'd be very interested in such a theme.)

The Ironbound Islands has the coolest Linnorm King too: White Estrid. Not only is she the first female Linnorm King, she also is the first to capture hers alive instead of killing it. She might very well be the Queen referred to in the informal name Queenmaker, although technically a King. She's clever and unconventional, and totally someone I could see being a patron for the PCs.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Doktor Weasel wrote:
motteditor wrote:
The Mad Comrade wrote:
Re: The Ironbound Archipelago

From the Pathfinder Wiki: The Ironbound Archipelago is a network of islands in the Steaming Sea off the north-western coast of Avistan. It consists of a chain of islands over 300 miles long. There are often considered to be thirteen major islands (if Mordant Spire is included), and countless minor ones. Many of the islands are uninhabited, but others are able to support sizeable communities. The northernmost islands are generally claimed by various Linnorm Kings. The number varies, as islands often regain independence when a Linnorm King dies. Currently, the Linnorm Kingdom of the Ironbound Islands consists of five of the main islands and numerous smaller ones

--

I think the assumption in the panel was this would have been a Viking-esque themed AP, which met with a lot of pleasure. (I know I'd be very interested in such a theme.)

The Ironbound Islands has the coolest Linnorm King too: White Estrid. Not only is she the first female Linnorm King, she also is the first to capture hers alive instead of killing it. She might very well be the Queen referred to in the informal name Queenmaker, although technically a King. She's clever and unconventional, and totally someone I could see being a patron for the PCs.

The Ironbound Archipelago were also where the Realm of Envy, Edasseril, from ancient Thassilion, was. So would likely involve going into a few of those ruins and dealing with those threats. Personally that sounds like an AWESOME adventure path idea to me.


The Mad Comrade wrote:
I'm not clear on what Crystal means by 'Afro-futurism' - MCU Wakanda-esque I guess? - but southern Garund always struck me as the proverbial Dark Continent. Not the 'infested with cannibal savages' kind, rather the 'pre-historic horrors lurk beneath the insect-and-monster-infested ultimate hostile wilderness' kind. The Isle of Dread writ across most of the entire continent kind. Perhaps more serpentfolk lay in torpor? A great temple of gold lurks in the bowels of at utterly hostile jungle eager to devour foolhardy treasure seekers in a Lost World environ?

That's kind of the Mwangi Expanse, isn't it? (Also, Nagajor and the Valashmai Jungle in Tian Xia cover a lot of similar thematic territory.)

motteditor wrote:
The Mad Comrade wrote:
Re: The Ironbound Archipelago
I think the assumption in the panel was this would have been a Viking-esque themed AP, which met with a lot of pleasure. (I know I'd be very interested in such a theme.)

A Viking-themed Queenmaker AP would be awesome! :)


Uqbarian wrote:
The Mad Comrade wrote:
I'm not clear on what Crystal means by 'Afro-futurism' - MCU Wakanda-esque I guess? - but southern Garund always struck me as the proverbial Dark Continent. Not the 'infested with cannibal savages' kind, rather the 'pre-historic horrors lurk beneath the insect-and-monster-infested ultimate hostile wilderness' kind. The Isle of Dread writ across most of the entire continent kind. Perhaps more serpentfolk lay in torpor? A great temple of gold lurks in the bowels of at utterly hostile jungle eager to devour foolhardy treasure seekers in a Lost World environ?

That's kind of the Mwangi Expanse, isn't it? (Also, Nagajor and the Valashmai Jungle in Tian Xia cover a lot of similar thematic territory.)

motteditor wrote:
The Mad Comrade wrote:
Re: The Ironbound Archipelago
I think the assumption in the panel was this would have been a Viking-esque themed AP, which met with a lot of pleasure. (I know I'd be very interested in such a theme.)
A Viking-themed Queenmaker AP would be awesome! :)

The Iron Archipelago shares space with some stuff, e.g. the Ruins of Azlant, among others.

It sounds like a rather large archipelago.

Re: Garund and the Mwangi Expanse: well, my memory of Garund is a tad spotty. Playing time-wise I've clocked time in the sandy bits on the northeastern shore and the Serpent's Skull stretch of it. A dabbling along the northwestern coast. The rest of it left the mental impression of "more jungle and cool stuff featuring darker and deeper secrets".

I'd like a large area to not be overly inhabited by anything with language skills for a change. An expedition into the unknown. Kingmaker does not qualify as an expedition into the unknown.

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