RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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There is a difference between "makes a sound" and "A full orchestra hearlds your arrival"
From the films, Nightcrawler's/Azreal's "bamf" isn't that loud. I'd peg it as a DC 20 (Hear the sound of a key being turned in a lock). Heck, feeling a creature burrowing beneath you is a 25. It's not a DC 0 perception check to notice the effect, if you really want to 'mechanic it' make it a perception vs spellcraft.
Again, as for 'why' fair's fair. Someone with a perception of +15 (elf rogue, skill focus perception can do this at 9th level easy) can 'take 10' and hear a lock being opened 50' away. So someone focused on perception can hear the wizard focused on teleportation at the same level. Would it be fair for the perception focused PC to 'insta-die' because the BBEG did a soundless teleport and cut loose with a death spell?
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A creature can generally notice the presence of an active invisible creature within 30 feet with a DC 20 Perception check. The observer gains a hunch that “something's there” but can't see it or target it accurately with an attack. It's practically impossible (+20 DC) to pinpoint an invisible creature's location with a Perception check. Even once a character has pinpointed the square that contains an invisible creature, the creature still benefits from total concealment (50% miss chance). There are a number of modifiers that can be applied to this DC if the invisible creature is moving or engaged in a noisy activity.
You can't stealth with out taking a move action
Action
Usually none. Normally, you make a Stealth check as part of movement, so it doesn't take a separate action. However, using Stealth immediately after a ranged attack (see Sniping, above) is a move action.
So standard action teleport, "something's there check" For 30' radius, then your move action with stealth.
Edit: that's how I would do it. Wish I knew of the "something's there check" last time I DMed.
Personally, I'd say that dimension door as well as most supernatural/spell-like personal teleports (demons, teleportation wizards and so on) is a bit "bamf", while teleport and greater teleport are more TARDIS-like.
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I believe there is confusion.
The Teleported person makes sounds, but I do not believe the spell itself makes a sound.
Upon arrival, the teleported individual may take a step, or cough, or make some other sound.
I certainly agree that people create sound. This spell, I believe it does not, in and of itself, make noise.
The issue with this spell vs the other spells is that-
we have lightning. We have sleet, we have storms, we have thunder and explosions and all that.. and generally speaking- we know they make noise and what noise they make. How much for any given spell is generally a DM fiat deal but no one's saying "explosions of fire are silent so you can't make my fireball go BOOm!". No, everyone knows and expects the BOOM when they fireball.
However, Teleport is entirely 100% made up stuff. No one yet has managed to do it outside of a Star Trek episode. so one person says "physics, it makes sound!" and another says "magic- no it doesn't!"
The fact is that the issue isn't about houserules its about the DM making a choice for the spell.
The rules themselves are silent on it and it can literally go both ways if you try to apply common sense.
(common sense says displaced air makes noise.. common sense also says that the teleport send sthe displaced air to your departing location to offset it and makes no noise.. common sense says the spell says no noise so there is no noise.. common sense says there has to be noise, because you are moving to a new location).
The fact is- this isn't a houserule/no houserule situation. Its a "The DM needs to talk to the group and come to a consensus on how it should work and then apply it across the board".
I think its a little harsh to be throwing around "if you houserule this then.." because it isn't. Its just a ruling. Saying there is noise is as much of a houserule as saying there isn't any.
-S
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I believe there is confusion.
The Teleported person makes sounds, but I do not believe the spell itself makes a sound.
Upon arrival, the teleported individual may take a step, or cough, or make some other sound.
I certainly agree that people create sound. This spell, I believe it does not, in and of itself, make noise.
My answer might be different if this were the advice forum. Though maybe not, but RAW rules here, and RAW does not specifically state the spell has an audible effect.
Spells that have an audio effect are ones like Alarm, Magic Mouth, Programmed Image, Power Word Spells(whether the target hears it or not), Mirage Arcana, Most Illusion spells that have audible aspects, etc.
Generally, in this case it can be used against a player, so I would say teleport doesn't tip of anyone in the area you arrived. As that would be a negative for the player.
If someone can whisper a powerword and kill someone without them hearing it, teleport can indeed 'make a noise' but should not be used against the player in a scenario where he is trying to arrive sneaky.
Should he arrive and instantly make a stealth check to avoid detection? sure! That's perfectly acceptable. If they fail, maybe the NPC DID hear a pop and knew that was magical in nature.
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Upon arrival, the teleported individual may take a step, or cough, or make some other sound.
I certainly agree that people create sound. This spell, I believe it does not, in and of itself, make noise.
Do you have any RAW that supports that for example coughing makes sounds? Or is that just a house rule, like teleport making sounds?
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I'd totally say that shadow jumping (or dimension door, in general, which it is based off of, not teleport) does *not* make a sound, unlike teleporting. While there's no text stating such, I always saw shadow jumping as sidestepping through the plane of shadow to reach your target destination, and not just dematerializing from point A and rematerializing at point B.
As mentioned up thread, most of this is subjective anyway. We can *assume* that lightning bolts make noise and have bright visible displays, but it's pretty obvious from the *mechanics* that lightning bolts aren't as bright as even an arc welder (since they can't dazzle or blind people) or as loud as a thunderstone (since they can't deafen or disorient people). Similarly, for all we know, hold person could manifest visible chains of energy around a person, or might be utterly invisible. That's up to the GM to decide (or the player to suggest).
I've even had different answers from different GMs about whether color spray works in magical darkness.
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RAW does not specifically state that the spell makes a sound.
RAW does not specifically state that the spell does NOT make a sound.
We've been down this road before, and I see no reason to bring RAW into this when RAW is irrelevant. Unstated sentences are not proof of anything and I wonder why this comes up so often in these forums. As always, this is a tabletop RPG and it does not function without the GM arbitrating intent.
This whole conversation is GM discretionary of course. Let's keep this in mind to avoid the whole "You're wrong" scenarios? This is an opinion topic and opinions are not directly wrong.
The question itself makes me wonder if this even counts as a Rules Question, but I suppose not every topic has it's place. The only rule that I can see to be considered in this is the automatic Perception check that has already been discussed.
Back to the fun!
It's a thematic effect, for sure, but adding it has a lot of effects maybe not seen.
You have to ask, "Why is adding this necessary?".
If you cannot think of a good reason, then don't.
My reason for always fluffing additional effects with spells has always been to:
Allow the caster to feel like magic is cool. Swirling energies when you cast a teleport may be inconvenient, but it certainly paints a vivid mental image of the game and players usually appreciate the memory.
But more importantly, high level casters can easily start dominating a game if you let them. Magic is fun, mysterious, and well... magic, as you said. However, using the "Well... it's magic" excuse can allow a wizard to drastically outshine the other players. Game balance is often argued on these forums, but the truth is that in a game where the GM must arbitrate more than half of every action taken, the GM is the true center of balance. It doesn't truly matter what the good folks at Paizo put in their books if the GM favors the wizard.
In my experience, stealth casting can create a very dangerous precedent. I've seen it many times through the years in which a wizard was trying to cast stealthily in such a way that I began to smell cheese.
I like to think that these are both good reasons, but once again it always depends upon the GM and the players.
Once again, RAW does not mention there is noise and RAW does not mention there is no noise. These GM decisions are not RAW, but they are not against RAW either and therefore just as relevant for advice (since I know the RAWyers were ready to pounce on this).
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Do you have any RAW that supports that for example coughing makes sounds? Or is that just a house rule, like teleport making sounds?
Upon arrival, the teleported individual may take a step, or cough, or make some other sound.
I certainly agree that people create sound. This spell, I believe it does not, in and of itself, make noise.
Really? We are talking about magic, emulating something that cannot be done in the real world. No comparison, whatsoever.
So, you troll strawman after strawman?
Thanks for the help.
well it makes POOF where you disappear so it's only normal it makes FOOP where you appear.
No, are you seriously expecting someone to find a rule what noise this makes? Perhaps it makes the noise of one hand clapping, or a tree falling in the forest when noone is around to hear it.
If I were your GM I would allow a perception check, but it would be difficult.
I would suppose that teleportation would or would not make sound based upon how you are teleported. I can see a tesseract effect were gravitational distortion is the mode of transit having a visual event horizon for a split second. True teleportation would displace atmosphere to the point that the teleportation occurred from, so a perception check would be based on her original location.
I second "bamf" and the brimstone.
Alternately, if your GM or your players give you grief over it, go with the Knights Who Say Ni:
"Ekki-Ekki-Ekki-Ekki-PTANG. Zoom-Boing. Z'nourrwringmm!"
See how they like that.
I would suppose that teleportation would or would not make sound based upon how you are teleported. I can see a tesseract effect were gravitational distortion is the mode of transit having a visual event horizon for a split second. True teleportation would displace atmosphere to the point that the teleportation occurred from, so a perception check would be based on her original location.10 catgirls were slaughtered on the writing of this post.
Please consider the catgirls.
I feel like I should be laughing my ass off.... but I'm lost.
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I feel like I should be laughing my ass off.... but I'm lost.I would suppose that teleportation would or would not make sound based upon how you are teleported. I can see a tesseract effect were gravitational distortion is the mode of transit having a visual event horizon for a split second. True teleportation would displace atmosphere to the point that the teleportation occurred from, so a perception check would be based on her original location.10 catgirls were slaughtered on the writing of this post.
Please consider the catgirls.
LazarX just failed their Knowledge(forums) check to correctly identify your geek subtype.
hmm, fair enough.
Doesn't even matter if it makes sound or not. Everything produces an electromagical field. Everything has some small eletromagical sense which allows you to become aware of things producing it (such as the proximity to a creature, resisting a spell).
If someone teleports next to you, you'd still get a perception check. If you can't see them, they get a big bonus. If they are capable of making sounds, it doesn't matter if they aren't actively making talking, they still make noises of some kind (footsteps, breathing, breaking wind, doesn't really matter).
Even without sight or sound, they're is still a chance you'll detect them. Just very steep penalties.
You can detect people shadow stepping. It's just the guys shadow stepping tend to be so good at stealth it ain't worth even bothering to roll.
The woosh of a little displaced air would be it I should think.
Now teleporting out should sound like a popping sound as the air quickly fills the previously occupied space.
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Do you have any RAW that supports that for example coughing makes sounds? Or is that just a house rule, like teleport making sounds?
Upon arrival, the teleported individual may take a step, or cough, or make some other sound.
I certainly agree that people create sound. This spell, I believe it does not, in and of itself, make noise.Really? We are talking about magic, emulating something that cannot be done in the real world. No comparison, whatsoever.
So, you troll strawman after strawman?
Thanks for the help.
It's weird how "magic" always works in the way most favorable to your point of view.
Odd that
Do you have any RAW that supports that for example coughing makes sounds? Or is that just a house rule, like teleport making sounds?
Upon arrival, the teleported individual may take a step, or cough, or make some other sound.
I certainly agree that people create sound. This spell, I believe it does not, in and of itself, make noise.Really? We are talking about magic, emulating something that cannot be done in the real world. No comparison, whatsoever.
So, you troll strawman after strawman?
Thanks for the help.
So what about elves coughing? Surely no elf can cough in the real world.