Tomael92's page

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I have been kind of reading this thread until now but I don't have enough experience with multiple characters to really contribute.

However, regarding WOTR Seoni and other characters that could use the same spell multiple times per turn before: what about keeping the old power to discards only but adding a new power along the lines of "You may at any time choose to fail to recharge a spell in your recovery pile." That way the power would retain the original functionality without risking to expand its scope.

I think "acquire" does mean that you put the card in your hand, but when the requirement to close a location tells you to acquire a card, it is implied that you need to succeed at acquiring the card by the usual methods (for example succeeding at the check).

In this sense I think it's similar to a requirement to close a location that says "succeed at a Strength 6 check". It doesn't mean that you succeeded at a check just because the "to close or guard" says so. It means that you have to succeed by the normal means in order to be able to close the location. In the same way, when it says you need to acquire a boon it order to close a location, you still need to make the necessary checks to acquire the boon, and if you succeed you close, otherwise you don't.

EDIT for clarity:
I think the process would be like this: "How do I close the location? Oh, I need to acquire this card. And how do I acquire the card? It says right here, succeed at a XXX check. Ok, so then if I succeed at the check I have acquired the card and therefore closed the location"

I don't think you could play this card together with an amulet even before Core, right? Since that would have meant two items in the same check. Why would you allow it now if it couldn't be done before?

As you mention, if a card has the power of "You may play another item on this check" pre-Core, that would probably be translated into "freely" post-Core, but that's not the case here.

I asked about it in a thread some time ago although we didn't reach a definitive conclusion at the time, but isn't this the reason why Mummy's Mask Drelm (Vaultkeeper) can't keep boons from his 6th power?

Vaultkeeper Drelm wrote:
When you encounter a card, before you act, you may recharge a card that has the Abadar (□ or Divine) trait to draw a random weapon, armor, or item from the box. After you act, banish that card.

At the moment we didn't reach a conclusion by RAW, but eventually I realized that he wouldn't ever be able to keep the boons because of the rule in question.

Vic wrote:
On page 7, Playing Cards says that when you play a card, "You must do everything the power says when possible." And a bit further on, "Cards often have instructions that you need to follow after you play the card; follow these instructions even if the card is no longer in your hand (even if the card is out of your sight, such as in the vault or in your deck)." So you have to finish executing that power, even if the card is in your deck. If you roll a 1 on that d8, you'll need to fetch the card back out of your deck and discard it.

Also intuitively, this rule probably aims to cover this kind of case even if it specifically talks about card powers.

If in reality, the instruction is considered impossible and not carried out, it would have significant impact for Drelm's Vaultkeeper role, probably buffing it beyond the intent of the original character. Otherwise, how could we justify the rule applying one way to Fumbus and another way to Drelm?

In my personal opinion, I think the rule cited by Vic should apply equally to character powers as it does with card powers. What do you guys think?

Longshot11 wrote:
Tomael92 wrote:
I think it applies to Unseen Sentinel also, but I don't see why you would be unable to use an armor to prevent it. The wording on the card suggests that you are still suffering damage so it should probably be preventable, right?

No. You're thinking about powers to tune of "When X deal damage to you, discard it from the top of your deck." - here, you would indeed be able to play armor, as the Monsters' power only *converts* the damage you *actually* suffer into deck discards.

However, note the Sentinel's wording: It *literally* says that you do not suffer damage - the "discard 1d4 from top" completely replaces the damage dealing process - and since those 1d4 cards do NOT depend on *actually* suffering any damage or not - there's no point (and is therefore illegal) to play a card to prevent the damage.

Yes you are right, I was indeed thinking of that. What you say makes sense, but if that is the case, why does it say not to suffer damage as usual? Shouldn't it just say not to suffer damage at all, and replace it with the discarding effect?

Yewstance wrote:

If the second paragraph also applies before acting, wouldn't that also interact similarly for the powers on Unseen Sentinel?

Unseen Sentinel (Core 2) wrote:

Before acting, succeed at a Perception 7 check or suffer 1 Force damage and the difficulty to defeat is increased by 3.

Do not suffer damage from this monster as usual. Instead, discard the top 1d4 cards of your deck.

This monster cannot be avenged.

That is, instead of suffering 1 Force Damage from the BA; you'd just discard the top 1d4 cards of your deck if you failed the Perception 7 check?

Why doesn't the first power just say to discard 1d4 cards from your deck, if the Force Damage is supposed to immediately be replaced - before you could even use armor?

I think it applies to Unseen Sentinel also, but I don't see why you would be unable to use an armor to prevent it. The wording on the card suggests that you are still suffering damage so it should probably be preventable, right?

skizzerz wrote:
He’s a vault keeper; he can borrow things from the vault, but he does need to return them afterwards. :)

Yes that makes a lot of sense :).

Grabbing some armor sounds like the best use probably, although it still sounds kind of weak. In any case, I'll take it and check for myself. Thanks for the help!

Oh, okay. I just assumed the intent of the power was to find the way to abuse it and keep the cards, as it seems too weak otherwise. Maybe I'll take it and check, I may find it not to be that weak after all.

Your explanations were perfectly clear and logical. Thank you for the help!

EDIT: I mean, at least it allows you to quickly remove basic cards from the game so that's useful.

skizzerz wrote:

You still banish it. If the play cost is something other than "reveal", set it aside while playing it instead of doing that cost, then banish it after you act.

Thanks for the answer! That makes sense. The only thing that makes some noise to me is this part:

MM rulebook, p8 wrote:
When you reveal a card, it does not leave your hand. When you display a card, it leaves your hand immediately. When you play cards by performing any other actions, set them aside while you process their effects.

Is banishing the card part of "processing its effect" even though it's actually part of Drelm's power? Otherwise, wouldn't the cards already have been entirely processed and put in the relevant deck or pile by the time you get to "after you act"?

Aside from that, how would this interact for example with Effigy of Maat?

Effigy of Maat wrote:
On your check, after the roll, reveal this card and bury a card, then remove any number of dice. For each die removed, add or subastar 5; take the new result.

If I bury the card I got from Drelm's power, do I still banish it?

I'm currently playing through Mummy's Mask with Drelm and I'm looking at the following power in his Vaultkeeper role:

Vaultkeeper Drelm wrote:
When you encounter a card, before you act, you may recharge a card that has the Abadar trait to draw a random weapon, armor or item from the box. After you act, banish that card

I'm wondering what happens if the card is no longer in my hand after acting, if there would be any way of bypassing banishing that card. I assume that if I manage to recharge the card or put it in my deck in any way, it may be unaccessible to banish it afterwards, although this may be difficult to achieve with most boons of those types. I suppose that if it's in my discard pile, it's still totally accessible for me to banish afterwards. What if I bury it with something like Effigy of Maat?

In general, is this a good power feat to have? What are its uses and how can it be taken a advantage of?

I'll try to add my two cents. Maybe the ruling could be something like this:

During each step, the party may collectively play no more than one of each type of boon. When a step is contained within another step (for example, a Before Acting step inside an Exploration step), only consider cards played during the innermost step when determining whether a card of the appropriate type has been played this step, and cards played during this step are only considered to have been played during the innermost step.

Would this cause any problems? Or maybe it's a bit confusing? I understand it, but these things always make the most sense when inside one's own head.

Longshot11 wrote:
skizzerz wrote:

The rulebook defines source as a card. So if the same card does multiple instances of damage in a single step
Genuine question: where do you and Yewstance get that the rules, as currently written, even *care* about steps? Way I see it, if "source" is defined a card (as opposed to powers - and powers are what happens in different steps of the encounter!) - then, if you're allowed "no more than one boon of each type... for the same source" - that's 1 in TOTAL - for all the BA, CtD, AA, Resolve the Encounter and any other step that could be invoked by the same card?!?

I was sure that this was mentioned in "Encountering a card" on page 8, but apparently that's not the case. I assume this must be an oversight in the rulebook. In any case, it is explicitly said under "A Few Rules That Are Easy to Forget" on page 32:

While encountering a card, the party may collectively play no more than one boon of each type during each step.

It is also implicitly suggested that it works this way in the glossary on page 30, when explaining "freely" .

Freely: Not counting toward the usual limit of playing one of each type of boon on a check or step or while suffering damage. See Encountering a Card on page 8 and Suffering Damage on page 13.

I think this also supports my belief that the restriction of one of each type by step should have been mentioned under "Encountering a card".

I am playing through Mummy's Mask currently and have been thinking about playing one of the seasons for this box afterwards, although I have some doubts about how it would work. This thread is the perfect opportunity for me to ask :D

Yewstance wrote:
Additionally, you gain an extra power feat when you earn your role card (same as in base set adventure paths), and it's probably worth getting an extra Card and Skill feat around AD5 or so, as most seasons provide a bonus Skill and Card feat at some point.

If seasons already provide extra feats around AD5, would I need to manually add those? Wouldn't they already be printed on the season scenario rewards?

So, if I understood you correctly, you will probably have around 7 of each feat by the end of the adventure path, is that correct?

Also, I wonder how loot works in season scenarios. Is there any? And if there is, are they new cards designed for these adventure paths or are they the same ones that come in the box? I assume any loot would be printed in the scenario rewards, is that right?

I was playing it the opposite way, putting the cards back in the box. In this case I thought "summon and acquire" was different from "summon and encounter".

If I summon and encounter a boon, I get to keep it afterwards just like a normal encounter. If I have to "summon and acquire" a boon, I thought I had to succeed at the check to acquire to proceed, and put the card back in the box.

Is there any confirmation if "summon and acquire" is the same as "summon and encounter"?

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Now I'm curious about the number of scenarios in Curse. I seem to remember having read somewhere that it would have 35 scenarios, but seeing as the storybook is only 48 pages, I'm probably mistaken.

Can this be bought anywhere online? I didn't find it on the Paizo site or on Amazon. I'd like to get it, or at least consider it, but I can't seem to find any way to do it.