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Dave Justus wrote:

I'm pretty sure that the spirit of the feat is not to provide a loophole for Paragon Surge that they had previously closed and grant someone every spell on their list as a potential 'known' spell. The spirit of the feat is that you can do things like change resist energy(cold) to resist energy (fire).

Note that in my version (the first one anyway) this feat is still very useful with Paragon Surge, just not brokenly useful.

You seem set on reading it the way you want though, so good luck to you.

The book Emergency Attunement came out in was released in July 2013

The Errata for Paragon Surge came out in July 2014. So I don't think they intended for the feat to bypass an errata because it came out before that errata existed.

Dave Justus wrote:

I believe it would work, but possibly not as wonderfully well as you might think.

Emergency attunement lets you change an option from a list, in the case of paragon surge, the option is a list of all feats you qualify for. What it doesn't do is let you go a level below that, i.e. change the choices you made as a result of picking a feat.

So, if you have a paragon surge running, you can change the choice of feat: expanded arcana to dodge (and back with a second casting) but what you can't do is change the choice you made for expanded arcana. The choices within expanded arcana isn't part of the list of options for paragon surge, and thus outside the bounds of what emergency attunement can change.

It is also arguable that after the first casting you don't have a list of options at all, so unless it is part of the first casting of paragon sphere in a day, emergency attunement wouldn't do anything. Personally, I wouldn't nerf that hard, but it is a valid interpretation of what the feat can do.

Your interpretation is completely valid and I can't argue that it can be used that way. Of course I do believe it tries to go against the spirit of the feat as its suppose to allow the change in choice. The choices are made as part of picking the feat. Its not that you get the feat and at any time can choose what spell it gives you in the came of Expanded Arcana. When you pick Expanded Arcana you choose the spell you learn. The way I see it when you cast Paragon Surge and pick Expanded Arcana, you pick what spell it grants you. That second choice (First choice was the feat, the second was the spell) is still part of the choice granted by the spell. Because no one is arguing that you can't choose the spell when you pick the feat. If the designers wanted it that way they could say "Sure you can pick Expanded Arcana as a feat, but you can't pick a spell as that is a separate choice."

Trish Megistos wrote:
Paragon Surge wrote:
Once that choice is made, it is set for the day and additional castings must make the exact same decisions.

This is pretty much the only reason standing in your way. Once you make your daily decision, it's pretty much set in stone. You may be able to talk your way around it depending on your GM.

The specifics of the spell would likely overall override the general tone of the feat.

Yes but if you think about it. Each type you cast a spell that has a decision that is not Paragon Surge it is set for the period of casting in the same way.

The way I read EA working is that it lets Paragon Surge work as Errata'ed. Then Emergency Attunement comes in After the spell and lets you change the spell. Since no normal spell allows you to normally change the choices you make. So the Specific beats the General text. EA specific beats the General of PS.

But I might be wrong. I know GM is rule 0, no matter what if it cant clear a GM it will not work no matter what.

Ok so we all know about Paragon Surge being Nerfed.

But why does Paragon Surge not work with Emergency Attunement?
From what I have read it seems like it should actually work. I was asked this by a friend who saw the combo on a forum and he wanted to possibly bring it into a game but I had to admit I didn't know if its rules legal and our DM is a bit strict on that.

He knows I like to look up rules and how they play so he came to me. But honestly I am not seeing why they shouldn't work other than it undoes a Nerf designed by the designers. So RAW instead of RAI

Paragon Surge's last paragraph says "The first time each day that you cast this spell, you must select a feat and make all the associated choices that come with it. Once that choice is made, it is set for the day and additional castings must make the exact same decisions."

EA says that for a standard action you can alter one of your abjuration or transmutation spells (Paragon Surge is a Transmutation Spell). So that checks out so far. Then it says must currently be effecting you (So you need to cast PS first) and must grant a choice. The spell grants a choice when you cast it. The second time you cast it you are still given a choice. But there is only one option, you MUST make those decisions again. The paragraph specifically calls out making the exact same decisions. Then EA says you change the benefit to a different one of the same list. I.E you change the feat to another feat acceptable for the spell.

So where is the issue? More or less I am looking for either information to explain why it won't work. Or give him some evidence to take to the DM rather than just "Hey this should work, and would be totally cool"

[I did post this on GiTP for additional advice.]

Dotting for interest
Pondering a Wizard as well, more generalist battlefield control

Best try for Dice rolls to see where I stand


4d6 ⇒ (2, 1, 4, 4) = 11 - 10
4d6 ⇒ (6, 6, 6, 5) = 23 - 18
4d6 ⇒ (1, 5, 4, 6) = 16 - 15
4d6 ⇒ (4, 6, 6, 6) = 22 - 18
4d6 ⇒ (4, 1, 4, 1) = 10 - 9
4d6 ⇒ (2, 1, 3, 5) = 11 - 10

Dot for Interest.

JPIKE, I was born in Weirton, currently living about 20 mins north in New Cumberland. So if you find a group, drop me a PM. My gaming group is just me and maybe two others, and thats just my immediate friends.

Dotting for interest

Alright that makes sense. Thanks for the speedy reply on this holiday season and I hope you have a merry one.

I think I was mixing up because the Bloodline is a class feature it wouldnt count for other class features, but its a class feature gained via Feat would not be a class feature of your class. Its a tag on.

Ok I know late to the party.

I was looking through things and I noticed the Paragon Surge FAQ. But I notice the FAQ kinda hits with a broad stroke.

Razmirian Priest (False Priest) has an ability called Lay Healer which adds Aid and Remove Disease to the Sorcerers spells known, but not the spell list. So according to the FAQ it cannot use this class feature (So it loses its 3 and 5th spells without repayment)

Voice of the Wild Bard loses its Wild Magic feature. It adds Druid and Ranger spells to the spells known, but not the spell list, meaning unless those spells are on the bard list (And making this a redundant ability) it cannot cast them.

These are just two that I found.
Know of any more?

Has this FAQ been more clearly explained?

Merry Christmas to you as well, yeah Emergency Attunement was a surprise for me too, found it scanning about the Paragon Surge FAQ

Ok so I am applying for a PbP game, We are starting at 17th Level, normal WBL. The only banned class is Arcanist and the Exploiter Wizard. Its a 25 PB game.

My problem is mostly paralyzed by the amount of choices at this level.
I know I want to build around Adaptability.

I planned on taking
Half-Elf Race
Venerable (Mantle of Immortality to offset this issue)
Eldritch Heritage (Arcane)
Spell Perfection (Paragon Surge)
Quicken Spell
Persistent Spell
Extend Spell
And Emergency Attunement to work with the FAQ on Paragon Surge

I am considering the Empyreal Wildblood Archetype to cast off Wisdom but I do like the idea of maxing Cha and playing her as someone who is more focused on her looks.

I am also partial to the Psychic Bloodline because it offers unique abilities.

The same is somewhat based on a party that has been going on a crusade and kicking gods out of the world, or at least thinking they are. They party has recently split and I would be playing on one side, And we can either choose to spec ourselves as future gods taking over spots that now are apparently vacant or enforce a no gods rule. I think most of the other players are going with the "We get to be god now" Route.

This is kinda why I went the Paragon Surge abuse route. Using Paragon Surge as a swift action to pick up Improved Eldritch Heritage and gain the three wizard/sorcerer spells for 17 minutes. I felt this was a little better than the picking Expanded Arcana feat because its 3 vs 1 and its for 17 minutes.

Now the FAQ for Paragon Surge says the first time you pick a feat and make the choices, those are locked in for the day. So if she cast it twice she gets the same spells back. But Emergency Attunement would allow her to change those choices AFTER they are locked in place, so its still in compliance with the FAQ.

What I need the most help with is, what Bloodline should I go with as my main. What Feats should I build around those listed above to keep her on her feet and benefiting the party.

Is there any specific gear she should be taking (Aside from Robes of Arcane Heritage which I plan on getting)

A Wyrwood Unchained Monk//Wizard

If Kung Fu Genius had been allowed I would use that but since its likely not I went with Spell Mastery

Working on the Background.

Would you be allowing Wyrwood in the game? An Quasi-Evil construct might be fun to play.

How long is this planning to go? I plan on building toward adaptation and could be very useful later on when we need silver bullet fixes.

This is gonna be a rockstar group, It should be pretty effective.

It does look like a good potential.

Ok I might go with the High Treason myself, probably tried to start an insurrection and maybe even try to become king by my own hand.

Ok I was curious since it had been a few days. I am thinking a Half-Elf Sorcerer and Unchained Monk. Not sure what crime.

Are you guys still recruiting for this?

Ok so one of my friends is looking at another forum and sees a high level game, 17th level. He wants to come up with a cool concept like a body thief.

So He was thinking of running a Beast-Bonded Witch and having his character Twin Soul jump into a body, and then cast Major Mind Swap (Learned from Samsaran Mystic Life) to perma-steal a body and not just that but also to get their abilities.

His logic is this. Yes when you jump into a body via Magic Jar you do not gain the special abilities of the body. Well the Soul is gone because of how the Twin-Soul worked. But now using Major Mind Swap you can permanently swap your mind into this body. So you are no longer using the effects of Magic Jar but Major Mind Swap.

I think his idea is to use his Familiar to Twin-Soul into the target body to kill it and take it over. Then Major Mind Swap You into the Target body. The Familiars soul goes into your previous body, and can shift into its own at will once you heal it. But now your mind is in this new body. And Mind Swap and Major Mind Swap doesn't seem to ban you from using special abilities of the new body.

I am interested, when will the recruitment end?

4d6 ⇒ (3, 1, 4, 6) = 14 [6+6+4] 16
4d6 ⇒ (1, 3, 1, 4) = 9 [6+4+4] 14
4d6 ⇒ (5, 2, 1, 6) = 14 [5+6+3] 14
4d6 ⇒ (1, 5, 5, 3) = 14 [6+5+5] 16
4d6 ⇒ (6, 4, 6, 1) = 17 [6+6+6] 18
4d6 ⇒ (4, 6, 1, 2) = 13 [6+6+4] 16

Row 1 reroll: 1d6 ⇒ 1
Row 2 rerolls: 2d6 ⇒ (1, 1) = 2
Row 3 reroll: 1d6 ⇒ 3
Row 4 reroll: 1d6 ⇒ 6
Row 5 reroll: 1d6 ⇒ 1
Row 6 reroll: 1d6 ⇒ 3

Row 1 2nd Reroll: 1d6 ⇒ 1
Row 2 2nd Reroll: 2d6 ⇒ (6, 4) = 10
Row 5 2nd Reroll: 1d6 ⇒ 6

Row 1 2nd Re-Reroll: 1d6 ⇒ 6

In total its 14, 14, 16, 16, 16, 18 I think those can be worked with.

4d6 ⇒ (4, 1, 5, 6) = 16 [5+6+4] 15
4d6 ⇒ (1, 4, 3, 4) = 12 [4+4+3] 11
4d6 ⇒ (5, 4, 1, 4) = 14 [5+4+4] 13
4d6 ⇒ (2, 1, 1, 2) = 6 [1+2+2] 5
4d6 ⇒ (2, 5, 5, 4) = 16 [5+5+4] 14
4d6 ⇒ (6, 2, 1, 6) = 15 [6+6+2] 14

Dot for interest

We are gonna pretend that epic fail never happened....

Well poo, Any other GMs want to take up the idea?

If I can suggest a 20 point buy is fair but I do so love to roll my dice. I think that should be an option.

I could come up with a character if I knew the Attribute generation. Whats the most common 20 Pt? 25?

Sylvanus, why not just ask to use a Drow Noble? I mean at level 10 that 1 one adjustment wouldn't even be felt by the rest of the party, especially if he allows monster pcs.

I would like to call dibs on an Unchained Monk//Warpriest Combo.. just saying.

Will do.

I am interested so much in this.
How would your Ability Scores get generated?

I was just about to ask lol. Profile will be set up soon.

If I knew the systems I would freaking love this but I have no experience with Dungeon or Apocalypse world.

My guy will be a Paladin//Sorcerer just to be clear.

Makes sense, I was thinking of having the Paladin be the muscle and the Sorcerer be the utility that allowed for him to cover roles he might otherwise not be.

Well I was thinking of being in melee a bit more, the charismatic leader style?

Would Improved Initiative be a good idea early then?
Though if I go Combat Casting, Uncanny concentration and Warrior Priest I could get a +8 to Concentration checks.

Ok so focus on Dex got it, but if I wear heavier armor I will lose out on Dex to AC. Do you mean Initiative?

Combat Casting sounds like a good feat to look at though.

Ok so I am hoping to join a PbP game here.

The crunch is that it has 25 point buy, begins at level 1, allows 2 traits but one must be from Serpent's Skull.

I was hoping to play a Half-Orc using Sacred Tattoo and maybe Fate's Favored for his 1 trait to make his Reflex even better.

But I am not sure on Stat lay out. Obviously fairly high Cha, but should I go Dex focus or Str focus?

Sorcerer will be using the Psychic Bloodline to allow him to wear full plate and cast. And Fear Immunity later is just good protection.

He follows the god Ragathiel and uses a Bastard Sword if that helps.

EDIT: Ok I am sorry for asking for so much help but I typically roll for my stats at home. Not very familiar with the Point Buy system

Just curious, Ultimate line? What about Unchained?

You have three so far it seems

I was thinking the same Oyzar its probably gonna be jungle based, so traps are gonna be a common thing.

I actually thought about doing a Reincarnated Druid//Unchained Monk for that reason but then I saw your monk/druid and figured it would be best not too step on toes.

I am debating on classes not so much a feel
He is gonna be the swashbuckling style of charismatic personality.
Either Paladin//Swashbuckler (Brings a lot of melee power and small amount of divine, but a secondary healer)
Or Daring Champion Cav//Bard (Brings a mix of utility and melee power, and useful out of combat healing)

Kinda interested, never even read Serpent's skull before.
I have a few favorites for a gestalt game. Daring Champion//Bard is always fun.
Investigator//Slayer is cool and flows well.
Kensai Magus//Inspired Swashbuckler is also good, very iconic

Whats a good fit?

No but I would be aware of Kine society. I like to Roleplay that my characters know what people of the time should reasonably know.

V20 is easy to find online, in fact I know at least two of my friends downloaded it offline, free.... which I do not condone but who knows who did it legal and who did it free.

Wanted to be sure, my bookmarks are getting a little crowded lol.
Did you have a setting in mind? A city I mean? Would love to look up history for it.

A swashbuckler might be very cool.
Interested for sure.

Interested, but would this be played on here?

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