Currently running jade regent and we are in the home stretch of finishing book 2.
group also consists of 4 PCs.
Tengu ranged ranger 5/ wizard 2(well due to story reasons and I won't spoil anything was reborn as a primalist wizard 7 at the end of the last session)
Human barbarian 7(now working to be a valkarie)
Horc blind stone oracle 7(totally not an earth bender)
Human* ninja 7(totally not a kitsune named the redfang that fights crime at night)
The ninja of the group I think is by far having the most fun with his character.
Especially with forgotten trick he is able to grab feats that are needed at the time.
Forgotten trick is amazing, and has saved the their party more than once.
the versatility of the ninja I'd say is worth it.
*Side note*
I'm guessing that the op didn't mean brinewall as that is the first book and I hope they wouldn't be reading ahead in the books to figure out loot.
Had a player do that once and it ruined the entire game since they always prepared for what was happening next.
As a Dm that just is running a JR game currently, this two was my personal favorite encounter.
party consists of Tengu Ranger, Horc Stone oracle(blind earth bender?), Human Barbarian, and a "Human street performer" i.e. kitsune Ninja who only reverts back to his kitsune form at night so he can jump around the city buildings and be a super hero known as the Red Fang
Since the AP states to make this fight as ridiculous as possible I pretty much threw physics and reason out the window when it came to the goblin tactics.
Goblin awesomeness highlights:
A goblin that got an arrow in the leg, grabing the shaft of the arrow sticking out of its leg to swing itsself like a club at a PC which resultd in a crit that killed itself and made the PC barbarian panic.
Goblins launching themselves into the air from the towers with long bows, while mid air using thier attack actions to launch themselves further with shortbows and finally lighting skyrockets to launch themselves stright downward at the party.
5 goblins Voltroning it together to make a large sized Goblin "mech"
Gutwad using dirty tricks on the ninja in the party to spit in the ninjas mouth while the ninja tried to declare how awesome he was and how the chief should just give up to his awesomeness(think black star from soul eater on this one)
Chief Gutwad escaping by straping the remaining skyrockets to his back to make an improvised jetpack, where he managed to escape the party but not before the rockets exploded "blasting him off" into the horizon to become a reacuring villian that recruits a group of summoners to hunt the Pcs named Team Skyrocket.
I've played in games where we have done both, in the end mapless play works out better for doing things on the fly like kicking down a door into a 15' by 15'room where players are for the most part always going to be able to "move" up to an enemy.
I personally prefer using maps and grids mainly for the fact that to many factors such as movement speed, difficult terrain, AoOs, reach, Spell blast radius, friendly fire, cover, etc just kind of go out the window without them.
When I dm, i usually make maps ahead of time and label them to fit either specific battles or scenes.
Also go to your local game shop and they might have what i bought a few months back. It was a collection of 200 pages of random dungeon tiles that could be put together complete with artwork on them.
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I have a question about the new feat Fast Learner from the ARG.
The feat fast learner states:
Fast Learner
You progress gain extra versatility.
Prerequisites: Int 13, human.
Benefit: When you gain a level in a favored class,
you gain both +1 hit point and +1 skill rank instead
of choosing either one or the other benefit or you can
choose an alternate class reward.
Lets say for instance you are a human Rogue
when you level up in rogue, you usually have the choice of +1 hp, +1 skills point or 1/6 towards a rogue talent.
so when you level up with this feat could you upon leveling get:
+1 Hp and 1/6 Rogue talent
+1 skill point and 1/6 rogue talent
or even possibly
2/6 rogue talent since you could choose to replace the HP and skill point with the favored class option.
Which would mean getting an extra rogue talent every 3 levels instead of 6.
if the latter is possible that would be extremely useful
How is he bullying people unless he has a high charisma score? Unless he has the feat that uses strength for intimidate that is just fluff ignoring the rules.
it made me smile.
i guess in the end there nothing really backing any stat mental stat score.
i guess i just compare it to how it was in 1st ed dnd where IQ was int stat times 10 and more less equate that to other mental stats.
a person with an wis of 7 would probably be as wise as a person with an IQ of 70 is smart.
you'd think that a cleric with 19+ wis and a wizard with 19+ int would remember what spells they have that would be useful to aid thier ally from falling to his potential death.
maybe if he was more likeable.
You make it sound like CHA 6 = good reason to commit murder. Yeah, I'm sure you're not twisting or slanting your source material at all.
you can find the Scenario in question in ultimate combat
and im not saying its an excuse for murder but that they probably knew that has some options for helping harsk out a little more before they launched him.
as for the pregen characters spell list here you go as of them being level 11(if youd like higher i can post those as well), these are from Legacy of Fire adventure path
Krya's spell list:
Spells Prepared (CL 11th)
6th—blade barrier, healD
5th—flame strike (DC 19)D,
summon monster V (2), true seeing
4th—air walk, divine power,
freedom of movement, fire shieldD
3rd—daylight, dispel magic (2),
remove disease, searing lightD
2nd—aid, bull’s strength, cure mod.
woundsD, hold person (DC 16), resist
energy (2)
1st—command (DC 15), endure
elementsD (3), divine favor (2),
sanctuary (DC 15), shield of faith
0—detect magic (3), light (3)
D domain spell (healing, sun)
but if mental stats are just a penalty or bonus that hold no actual RP value, Couldnt the player just RP that his int was lower even though his int was 7 points higher than he wanted it to be or just opt to fail rolls?
I will give you that but it seems that in most text given to harsk he does nothing more than bully his allies into doing things.
just seems that a party that liked him a little more would be more willing to say hey before we launch you from this, here is an air walk spell(something thier cleric has prepared) or fly which as pointed out the party wizard has prepared, he also doesnt prepare feather fall or have a scroll of FF on him.
you'd think that a cleric with 19+ wis and a wizard with 19+ int would remember what spells they have that would be useful to aid thier ally from falling to his potential death.
maybe if he was more likeable.
If a character could use point buy and drop a score to as low as 3 but recieved no points for going under 7 do you think they would do it for purely rp reasons?
Harsk is, in many ways, not your standard dwarf. He prefers the wide skies of the open plains,
disdains the taste of alcohol, and prefers to handle his battles at range rather than in melee. Yet few
dare to mock him for his choices, for if there’s anywhere that Harsk is dwarven, it is in his gruff and
off-putting attitude. Much of his anger stems from the slaughter of his brother’s warband. Harsk
came upon the band, slain to a man by giants, moments too late to save his brother. Harsk’s hatred
of giants has fueled him and shapes his life. He prefers strong tea over alcohol (to keep his senses
sharp), the wildlands of the surface world (where giants can be found), and the crossbow over the
axe (which allows him to start fights faster). His companions value his skill at combat even if they’re
somewhat afraid of him.
but as it says in his description they keep him around for his skills but he scares the crap out of all his allies.
We are talking about a character that his allies decided the best course of action was to shoot him out of a catapult at a dragon, even though ezren thier wizard keeps fly prepared.
sounds like a good way to get rid of a dragon and an off putting dwarf.
Also remember a lot of the pregens when they first came out were based off of 3.5 races not pathfinder races meaning they probably used the 3.5 pb which started at 8 in every stat instead of 10
And when they converted them they didn't bother changing their stats
Good old 28 point buy.
But I guess only JJ can tell us the reasoning behind the 8 in their stats
Jiggy why does it seem you that you want to turn a thread in the advice forum into a game that you have to "win"
You are entitled to your opinion, as am I mine.
You can disagree with my opinion and I've read your point and to me it doesnt hold water and the same with your view on my opinion on the matter.
Just like in the many threads where people want to argue that pathfinder is only western medieval fantasy and that guns and eastern flavor dont belong what so ever but sentient hello and dinosaurs with a single bite attack can whirlwind attack 10 enemies in 1 round of combat can.
In the end I will just have to go with rule 0 and say no dumping down to 7.
Then have fun playing your commoners which are usually peasants. But this about Heroes who are above the normal.
I guess with that logic of 1 point shouldn't make a difference maybe the guy with 12 str should be allowed to take power attack because it shouldn't matter much that the person with 13 str just just lift on average 10lbs more.
I guess there would be nothing wrong with a character with the background of a lumber jack having the stats of 20/16/16/7/7/7 since he probably doesnt go to school, could cuts trees by himself, no other human interaction so he doesnt know how to social.
Would you let a player take higher than an 18 using pb?
Say they want to dump a bunch of stats and spend the points to get a stat to 19 starting.
I mean its just 1 point higher than the usual max amount after all
@jiggy thank you for your input, i think posts have given me a good guideline as to what a person with 7 cha is like.
Also i think you have racial modifiers confused with dumping stats.
If a race has an automatic 8 due to a racial penalty then its not really dumping the stat is it?
Also on a side note. He did just want to have a 16 in con. So im sorry I didnt want to post texts and quote exact words spoken but instead give more of a summary.
His reasoning to have his stats all stem from the "fact he only wants to use the core book instead of trying to break the game with advanced classes and races from any other paizo book"
I have to wonder whether your player only got "pissy" after you responded to his idea with incredulity and accusation.
Thank you for assuming as you don't know the conversation between the actual player and myself.
also
there is more than 1 definition of stoic, try looking them up.
Jiggy wrote:
Every NPC in Golarion has an 8 in a stat. If the population as a whole has randomly-assigned stats, then fully ONE-SIXTH of all dwarves on the planet have less CHA than what your player asked for.
yes exactly they have an 8 and the only reason they would have lower is if they were dumping thier stats which most NPCs dont do.
Also why are you using dwarves for an example when we are talking about humans?
In almost all fiction dwarves are almost always dipicted as being difficult to be around, stubborn, and off putting
Dumping Cha and being stoic in this case seems more like a reason for a player to role play a character that doesnt have to think in social situations and rely on everyone else to do thier talking.
Anyone who can't see past the numbers just doesn't get it. They can be used as a "jumping off point" to help with concept and flavor, but you shouldn't be tied at the hip with limitations to that character for them other than to hinder a few skill checks. Don't pigeonhole your player and ruin his fun because he isn't making a character you wouldn't. That's not fair to him and not fair to you because both of you will end up not having fun in your game.
So lets say the Stat dumped down to 7 wasnt cha, Lets say it was Int.
even though the character has an Int of 7(to some IQ equals statx10 so 70IQ) he still wants to roll play a extremely knowledged character that just takes a little more time to learn something i.e. less skill points per level but can solve calculus problems equal to that of a graduate level aero space engineer?
jiggy wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
I really don't see what the big deal is. A charisma of 7 is a charisma of 7.
It should be obvious from the OP that there's a lot of bias involved.
StealthElite wrote:
...but there is actual role playing and having the charisma of a badger just doesnt seem like a good idea.
...
I asked him how he was planning to rp having the cha of a troll.
If that doesn't scream "I'm not open to other ideas, I've already made up my mind", I don't know what does.
The OP also doesn't own a dictionary.
StealthElite wrote:
I guess when I think of stoic it actually screams dang that guy have cha oozing out of him.
Stoic means quiet, indifferent, calm.
As a person that has been playing since 3.5 I look at the players handbook which references what things have stats usually associated with scores.
cha reference block:
Average Charisma Scores
Average Average
Example Race or Creature Kind Charisma Modifier
Zombie, golem, shrieker (fungus) 1 –5
Spider, crocodile, lizard, rhinoceros 2 –4
Tendriculos, octopus 3 –4
Dire rat, weasel, chuul, donkey 4–5 –3
Badger, troll, giant fire beetle, bear 6–7 –2
Gnoll, dire boar, manticore, gorgon 8–9 –1
Human, wolverine, dretch (demon) 10–11 +0
Treant, roper, doppelganger, night hag 12–13 +1
Storm giant, barghest, medusa 14–15 +2
Ogre mage, pixie, harpy, achaierai 16–17 +3
Greater barghest, nixie 18–19 +4
Astral deva (angel), kraken 20–21 +5
Great wyrm gold dragon 32–33 +11
stoic
Definition
sto·ic[ stṓ ik ]NOUN
sto·ics plural
1. somebody impassive: somebody who is unemotional, especially somebody who shows patience and endurance during adversity
-----------------------------------
sto·ic (stk)
n.
1. One who is seemingly indifferent to or unaffected by joy, grief, pleasure, or pain.
2. Stoic A member of an originally Greek school of philosophy, founded by Zeno about 308 b.c., believing that God determined everything for the best and that virtue is sufficient for happiness. Its later Roman form advocated the calm acceptance of all occurrences as the unavoidable result of divine will or of the natural order.
adj. also sto·i·cal (--kl)
1. Seemingly indifferent to or unaffected by pleasure or pain; impassive: "stoic resignation in the face of hunger" (John F. Kennedy).
2. Stoic Of or relating to the Stoics or their philosophy.
Who doesn't notice that guy that is completely calm while everything is blowing up around them.
Im about to start gming a jade regent game and im running into a problem with a player.
He is planning to play a human wizard and wants me to ok dropping his cha score down 7.
If this was a splat game sure what ever but there is actual role playing and having the charisma of a badger just doesnt seem like a good idea.
I told him no and he wants to be pissy about it
so I asked him how he was planning to rp having the cha of a troll.
His response was that his character is very stoic.
I guess when I think of stoic it actually screams dang that guy have cha oozing out of him. The typical guy in the war movies that doesnt say anything and is a total bamf.
am I being a jerk for saying no when a big part of the jade regent is having a character that's somewhat likeable so the NPCs dont kick them out of the caravan?
You know, I've just realized: the sword saint gives up "mounted charge," which isn't actually an ability that exists from what I can tell - and if it is, as I suspect, supposed to be a reference to the cavalier's charge ability, samurai don't have that either, since they sacrifice it to gain the weapon expertise ability. Since sword saints have no mount, perhaps the brutal slash ability of the sword saint archetype is supposed to replace the mounted archer ability of the samurai? If this is the case, should the sword saint still get brutal slash at 3rd level, or should it be delayed to 4th?
lol i noticed the same thing, guess they get a free ability.
Does anyone else feel kind of cheated that there is no love for the ninja?
and also I thought this book was supposed to have Style feats but alas...
Still a good book though, Im itching to try the Sword saint out.
Improved Chokehold: When an opponent is pinned, and in the effects of a choke hold, the chokeholder rolls a CMB vs the enemies CMD if successful, the grappler rolls a d6 and subtracts the result from the total number of rounds the grapplee can hold thier breathe.
if you have Greater grapple the die used is upped to 1d8.
normal suffocation rules still apply.
Here is the regular choke hold feat
Chokehold:
Chokehold (Combat)
While grappling, you can cut off an opponent’s air and
blood supply.
Prerequisites: Improved Grapple, Improved Unarmed
Strike, base attack bonus +6 or monk level 5th.
Benefit: While you have an opponent up to one size
category larger than you grappled, you can attempt a
grapple combat maneuver with a –5 penalty on the check.
If you succeed, you have pinned your opponent and hold
the opponent in a chokehold. When you maintain the
grapple, you also maintain the chokehold. A creature in a
chokehold cannot breathe or speak, and thus cannot cast
spells that have a verbal component. An opponent you have
in a chokehold has to hold his breath or begin suffocating.
Any creature that does not breathe, is immune to bleed
damage, or is immune to critical hits is immune to the
effects of your chokehold. When the grapple is ended, so
is the chokehold.
you still refuse to understand that a code of conduct and a morality are not the same thing
Conduct:
con·duct /n. ˈkɒndʌkt; v. kənˈdʌkt/ Show Spelled[n. kon-duhkt; v. kuhn-duhkt] Show IPA
noun
1. personal behavior; way of acting; bearing or deportment.
2. direction or management; execution: the conduct of a business.
3. the act of conducting; guidance; escort: The curator's conduct through the museum was informative.
4. Obsolete . a guide; an escort.
verb (used with object)
5. to behave or manage (oneself): He conducted himself well.
6. to direct in action or course; manage; carry on: to conduct a meeting; to conduct a test.
7. to direct (an orchestra, chorus, etc.) as leader.
8. to lead or guide; escort: to conduct a tour.
9. to serve as a channel or medium for (heat, electricity, sound, etc.): Copper conducts electricity.
verb (used without object)
10. to lead.
11. to act as conductor, especially of a musical group.
code of conduct can also be refered to as Etiquette
Etiquette:
et·i·quette /ˈɛtɪkɪt, -ˌkɛt/ Show Spelled[et-i-kit, -ket] Show IPA
noun
1. conventional requirements as to social behavior; proprieties of conduct as established in any class or community or for any occasion.
2. a prescribed or accepted code of usage in matters of ceremony, as at a court or in official or other formal observances.
3. the code of ethical behavior regarding professional practice or action among the members of a profession in their dealings with each other: medical etiquette.
morals:
mor·al /ˈmɔrəl, ˈmɒr-/ Show Spelled[mawr-uhl, mor-] Show IPA
adjective
1. of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong; ethical: moral attitudes.
2. expressing or conveying truths or counsel as to right conduct, as a speaker or a literary work; moralizing: a moral novel.
3. founded on the fundamental principles of right conduct rather than on legalities, enactment, or custom: moral obligations.
4. capable of conforming to the rules of right conduct: a moral being.
5. conforming to the rules of right conduct ( opposed to immoral): a moral man.
6. virtuous in sexual matters; chaste.
7. of, pertaining to, or acting on the mind, feelings, will, or character: moral support.
8. resting upon convincing grounds of probability; virtual: a moral certainty.
noun
9. the moral teaching or practical lesson contained in a fable, tale, experience, etc.
10. the embodiment or type of something.
11. morals, principles or habits with respect to right or wrong conduct.
Code of conduct are the rules of how you live you life
Morality or your moral code are what you consider right and wrong
As i said before your job cant legaly fire you because you spent your lunch break pounding hookers(probably considered moraly wrong in most societies)
but they can fire you because you were consistantly late returning from your afternoon delight every day.
basically you are interperating that a code of conduct is the same as a moral code
when they are not the same thing
Main Entry: code of conduct
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: rules of conduct and behavior
Synonyms: code of behavior, custom, decorum, diplomatic code, etiquette, formalities, guideline, manners, protocol, rules of conduct, social code, social procedures, standard procedure
Main Entry: moral code
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: value system
Synonyms: code of conduct, ethicalness, good morals, ideology, moral philosophy, morality, morals, principles, standards, values
I mean if you want to get into it a paladin has a strict code of conduct
paladin code:
A paladin must be of lawful good alignment and loses all class features except proficiencies if she ever willingly commits an evil act.
Additionally, a paladin's code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.
Associates: While she may adventure with good or neutral allies, a paladin avoids working with evil characters or with anyone who consistently offends her moral code. Under exceptional circumstances, a paladin can ally with evil associates, but only to defeat what she believes to be a greater evil. A paladin should seek an atonement spell periodically during such an unusual alliance, and should end the alliance immediately should she feel it is doing more harm than good. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good.
However a paladins Moral code is defined by the deity that they follow.
as Finn has pointed out
the way a paladin falls
Ex-paladin:
A paladin who ceases to be lawful good, who willfully commits an evil act, or who violates the code of conduct loses all paladin spells and class features (including the service of the paladin's mount, but not weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies). She may not progress any further in levels as a paladin. She regains her abilities and advancement potential if she atones for her violations (see atonement), as appropriate.
is based soley on the Code of conduct and not the moral code
Most people get fired from a job for violating thier jobs rules of conduct, and not because they didnt maintain thier personal values.
So lets use your previous paladin as an example(yes i know they atoned)
would you put the kicking in the door, killing the bad guys with no offer to surrender, mutilating thier bodies and putting them up for display a LG, CG, or even NG thing to do?
Do you think a paladin should be like robin hood(usually portrayed as CG) who would ambush and kill guards without offering surrender and steal everything?
sure its to give it to the less fortunate which is good but still consider.
What did those guards do? how do you know that they werent even more good than the paladin and just doing thier job so that they could support a family.
Heck the money you stole might be going to help the dead soliders widow and children lol
When presented in a situation of a bar fight that started because a drunk gaurd squeezed you butt a reason to beat the crap out of every gaurd that comes in the tavern to arrest you for fighting? was that a good thing to do?
If you want to make a NG or CG paladin, call it a crusder and be done with it
Except an NG or CG holy warrior would not ignore cries for help. They are still GOOD, they just aren't LAWFUL. Lawful good doesn't have a monopoly on good and honorable deeds. An NG or CG character doesn't do whatever they feel like doing, they do what's good and righteous. They just have a different idea of what that is than an LG character.
If a Character is actually playing the Chaotic, neutral spectrum of thier character then they really dont have to go out of thier way to do something.
Im sure the people on the show what would you do are good at heart but most of them stand by and do nothing as something wrong is happening.
They are good but they are unwilling to go out of thier ways to help.
Jet from avatar: the last airbender is CG but do you believe his moral code would be a good templet for a paladin?
He has good intentions, hes fighting what he believes is evil but his methods for going about solving the problem are not what a paladin should be trying to do. He takes no prisoners he believes are evil, no mercy for anything he believes is affiliated to the "evil" even if they have done nothing wrong but in the end a good person
Aang(LG) however fights the same evil, but always finds the best solution to handle the situation. tries to reform a person from thier evil ways and refuses to hurt innocents even if they belong to "evil" culture.
Without discipline a paladin isnt a paladin, Chaotic characters and neutral characters usually dont have the discipline to follow a code of honor at all times.
Paladins are supposed to be a person that others can always look up to, that can always be trusted, throw in neutral or chaotic and you now have a paladin that can be good but also lie, cheat and ignore crys for help if he so chooses.
If a woman is getting attacked outside in the street a paladin needs to be the guy rushing to help and not the one in the window watching and calling the police.
while it is good that the person in the window is doing a good thing in alerting the athorities, they are not actively trying to stop the situation.
Neutral characters can agree or even follow the Paladin's code.
I would have to say a neutral character that has chosen to follow the paladins code has effectly become lawful good, as they are not really neutral.
I Know youve "read" all of the alignments
but for poops and giggles ill post these up again
Lawful Neutral
A lawful neutral character acts as law, tradition, or a personal code directs her. Order and organization are paramount. She may believe in personal order and live by a code or standard, or she may believe in order for all and favor a strong, organized government.
Lawful neutral means you are reliable and honorable without being a zealot.
Neutral
A neutral character does what seems to be a good idea. She doesn't feel strongly one way or the other when it comes to good vs. evil or law vs. chaos (and thus neutral is sometimes called “true neutral”). Most neutral characters exhibit a lack of conviction or bias rather than a commitment to neutrality. Such a character probably thinks of good as better than evil—after all, she would rather have good neighbors and rulers than evil ones. Still, she's not personally committed to upholding good in any abstract or universal way.
Some neutral characters, on the other hand, commit themselves philosophically to neutrality. They see good, evil, law, and chaos as prejudices and dangerous extremes. They advocate the middle way of neutrality as the best, most balanced road in the long run.
Neutral means you act naturally in any situation, without prejudice or compulsion.
Chaotic Neutral
A chaotic neutral character follows his whims. He is an individualist first and last. He values his own liberty but doesn't strive to protect others' freedom. He avoids authority, resents restrictions, and challenges traditions. A chaotic neutral character does not intentionally disrupt organizations as part of a campaign of anarchy. To do so, he would have to be motivated either by good (and a desire to liberate others) or evil (and a desire to make those others suffer). A chaotic neutral character may be unpredictable, but his behavior is not totally random. He is not as likely to jump off a bridge as he is to cross it.
Chaotic neutral represents freedom from both society's restrictions and a do-gooder's zeal.
if your Character follows a Lawful good code then they are lawful good, you cant have your cake and eat it too
If the Paladin can't be in a party with anyone that might go against his code, then why would the good people of piazo make campaigns such as CotCT where the pregens/iconic characters in it include a Paladin and a Bard that has heavily invested in his bluff skill and according to his background description, has a high disdain for law and order.
and as far as i can tell They lasted a full 6 books and then continued thier partnership in other adventures.
That means if you have a rogue in the party who uses poisons, that doesn't jive. Bard in the party is a liar? No jiving. Your sorcerer likes to cheat at cards? No dice. The barbarian acts without honor?
paladin code:
Code of Conduct
A paladin must be of lawful good alignment and loses all class features except proficiencies if she ever willingly commits an evil act.
Additionally, a paladin's code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.
Associates: While she may adventure with good or neutral allies, a paladin avoids working with evil characters or with anyone who consistently offends her moral code. Under exceptional circumstances, a paladin can ally with evil associates, but only to defeat what she believes to be a greater evil. A paladin should seek an atonement spell periodically during such an unusual alliance, and should end the alliance immediately should she feel it is doing more harm than good. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good.
Other characters do not have to follow the paladins code and nowhere does it say a paladin has to force his/her code on others.
besides how does teh paladin know teh rogue is using poisons or stealing things, if the rogue is smart about it he would do it when No one is a witness, if the bards lie will get you past a set of gaurds so the party can free some slaves so be it, hes doing it not the paladin.
If the Fighter of the group makes some stew and it tastes horrible but the sorc wants to be nice and say its the best tasting thing ever, the Paladin doesnt have to flip a table, Yell at how awful the other party members are and deuce out.
The fact is the paladin knows his own code and that he cant expect others to follow it.
If the party is constantly doing evil things then he has the right to try and talk to them about thier actions.
also there is a reason it says in the code that when working in parties that conflict with this code a great deal he is to seek atonement periodically.
And since you dont actually want to read the alignments before you try and argue them here is a link to all of them.
As I noted before, an Evil Necromancer can in fact be very heroic, if you see heroism as doing heroic things that save people, fight evil, and progress the goals of the party.
if a "Evil" Necromancer is going around doing good then he/she isnt evil
Youre playing a neutral or dare I say good Necromancer
All depends on how you RP and probably spell selection
They can go forth and be a hero, as long as it furthers their goals, reputation, or is otherwise selfishly motivated. An anti-paladin is a better party member than a true Paladin, because he can happily work alongside Lawful Good characters and the Chaotic Evil necromancer.
I think you have Chaotic Evil and Chaotic Neutral mixed up.
Chaotic evil:
A chaotic evil character does what his greed, hatred, and lust for destruction drive him to do. He is vicious, arbitrarily violent, and unpredictable. If he is simply out for whatever he can get, he is ruthless and brutal. If he is committed to the spread of evil and chaos, he is even worse. Thankfully, his plans are haphazard, and any groups he joins or forms are likely to be poorly organized. Typically, chaotic evil people can be made to work together only by force, and their leader lasts only as long as he can thwart attempts to topple or assassinate him.
Chaotic evil represents the destruction not only of beauty and life, but also of the order on which beauty and life depend.
Chaotic neutral:
Chaotic Neutral
A chaotic neutral character follows his whims. He is an individualist first and last. He values his own liberty but doesn't strive to protect others' freedom. He avoids authority, resents restrictions, and challenges traditions. A chaotic neutral character does not intentionally disrupt organizations as part of a campaign of anarchy. To do so, he would have to be motivated either by good (and a desire to liberate others) or evil (and a desire to make those others suffer). A chaotic neutral character may be unpredictable, but his behavior is not totally random. He is not as likely to jump off a bridge as he is to cross it.
Chaotic neutral represents freedom from both society's restrictions and a do-gooder's zeal
if you find a Lawful good character to be disruptive
then i highly doubt having a chaotic Evil Character of any type in a mostly good group will be any better at all as.
The Paladin is not for everyone
If you can't actually accept what the Paladin class is, then quit complaining and move onto another class that can be selfish and impulsive
Probably, the designers were hesitant with the gunslinger. True, guns are awesome, and gunslingers in game are very neat. But it's sort of anachronistic with the rest of the game, and so they didn't want to overpower. Enemy NPCs can do everything with the guns, abilities, and feats available that PCs can, and it'd suck to run into a slightly-higher level enemy with guns that can decimate your party with a gun or two and some abilities. If you really want a gun-based game, they're out there. PfRPG is more focused on a medieval setting.
I really wish people would stop saying PF is a medieval setting when its a mash up of several different eras.
example
my european knight entered himself into a Roman gladiator challenge only to lose to a halfling Ninja from the Sengoku period of japan weilding a cannon from the 18th century thats mounted on the back of a T-Rex that was wearing a helm of intelligence +6 and could untilize the monkey style of kung fu in combat.
Here you go, Level 10, 20 pb, no stat under 8, WBL 10
Human Monk8(MoMS)/Sword sage2:
Starting stats
Str 12, dex 16, con 12, int 8, wis 18, cha 8
Level 10 stats
Str 12, dex 16, con 12, int 8, wis 24, cha 8
AC: 35(39 if ki spent)
Touch: 33(37 if ki spent)
Flat footed: 29
Snake stance AC: 1d20 + 28(29 if including traits)
Free attack deflect per round via crane style
Stances:
-Child of Shadow:As long as you move 10 feet you gain 20% concealment.
-Island of blades:allies only need to be Adj to you and the enemy to flank.
Maneuvers:
-Distracting ember(Boost: summons a fire elemental to flank a foe for one turn)
-Counter charge(Counter: Redirect a foes charge in another direction negating the charge)
-Wolf Fang Strikes(Attack: make two attacks)
-Clinging Shadow Strike(Attack: foe struck gains a 20% miss chance)
-Shadow Blade Technique(Attack: roll the attack twice, if you take the lower roll then the attack deals an extra 1d6 cold damage)
-Steely Strike(Attack: gain a +4 to the attack roll, gain a -4 ac for one round)
-Rabid wolf strike(Attack:+4 to the attack, plus 2d6 extra damage, -4 AC for 1 round
Special abilities:
Stunning Fist 8/day, DC 24
Evasion
High jump
Still mind
Purity of body
Wholeness of Body
Ki pool (11)
Feats:
5 from level
1 from swordsage
1 from human
5 from monk
total=12
-Combat Intuition
-Shadow blade
-Crane I
-Crane II
-Crane III
-Snake I
-Snake III
-Combat Reflexes
-Skill focus: sense motive
-Improved unarmed strike
-Weapon Focus
-Stunning fist
Standard defensive strategy:
-Force opponent to miss on attacks and take extra attacks from snake style AoOs and crane style retaliation attacks.(using Stunning fist when possibe)
-Use counter charge to negate enemy charge attacks
-Use crane Style to deflect attack made at opponent’s highest BAB
-Use Snake Style to deflect opponent’s next highest attack with Sense motive AC
(at level 10 unless hasted, enemies with class levels will have no more than 2 attacks albeit TWF in which case they are already adding penalties to their attacks)
-Rely on decent AC to negate opponent’s remaining attacks, if any
Standard offensive strategy:
Remain mobile and use offensive maneuvers to increase chances to hit and land stunning fists.
Magic items:
Amulet of mighty fists +2: collision(20000 gold)
Headband of Wisdom +4(16000 gold)
Monks Robe(13000 gold)
Bracers of Armor +2(4000 gold)
Cloak of resistance +2(4000 gold)
Ki straps(5000 gold)
Total gold spent: 62000(WBL 10)
Back to gunslingers
For those of you that have not actually tried playing a Gunslinger, go play one before you try and fix something that isnt broken.
Where the Hell are you Getting 20 Dex and 20 Wis by 3rd level?
you blew 3 levels of progression to pull this off. that will hinder any other class you take by a lot. unless you do SS/Monk. where your progression is still hindered.
lets see, there is no way it can be done though base stats without one of the following.
youre right 20 dex and wisdom is way to high but ill take your challenge
20 PB
no stat lower than 8
human for the race
WBL standard of 3000 gold by level 3
character will playable
Human Monk1/Sword sage2
Str 12, dex 16, con 12, wis 18, cha 8
AC:24[26 with crane stance,28/ 30 with mobility] (bracers of armor +1, dex +3, Ring of protection +1, wisdom +8, dodge +1
Touch:23[25 crane style] (dex +3, wisdom +8, dodge +1, Ring of protection +1)
Flat footed: 20 (wisdom +8, BoA +1, RoP +1)
CMD: 23 (10 + 1 BAB + 1str + 3dex + 8wis)
Fort: 4
Ref: 9
Will: 10
Speed: 30 ft
should of looked before i typed but still they arent meant to be used together.
My Gms would personally not allow such obvious cheesing
lets assume you have a 20 dex and possibly 20 wis possibly to get with +X items
by level 3 as a swordsage2/3.5 ninja1
AC:25
touch:25
Flat footed:20
free weapon focus
no armor check penilties
as well as dex to damage
plus 2 stances, 7 known and 4 readied Manuevers
trapfinding and sudden strike
or
SS2/Monk1(insert arch here)
get all the above
+bonus feats
stunning fist
Flurry of blows
great saves
Increased unarmed strike damage
Flanking adj foes via the island of blades stance
no loss of run speed
seems to me kinda better of then the fighter trying to weight himself down to be effective
fighter 3
+1 full plate(10), +1 tower shield(5), maybe +1 from dex, ammy or ring giving +1
ac:27
Touch:11
flat footed:26
while taking a huge penalty to skill checks and speed
and since he is using a shield that means no THF so damage output suffers as well as losing to hit for using a tower shield.
personally id take the SS/monk anyday
That aside
I love the gunslinger class but its fine the way it is without people trying to twist things to make it overpowered
using the mysterious pistolaro example with the dex twice to damage and someone pumping dex 20 and cha to 18, could get you when using dual wielding double barrel pistols at level 6 and twf tree and rapid shot, rapid reload, deadly aim and PBS.
then with that being the case id say leave called shots to a THW high crit scout rogue or a Smiting THW pali to make the most of the single attack with possibly of high damage.
I use it a lot with my THF rogue that uses a ECB, with a 30% chance to crit he usually can get the crit effect to trigger.
but i have two problems with it.
1)the factors for getting the desired effect(Debilitating Blow) will usually kill the foe with just the minimum of 50 damage or half HP, depending on how long combat has gone. which brings up why bother with called shots if you could just kill the creature anyway.
2)I kind of wish that they would of combined some of the effects from Dirty Trick onto some of the normal called shot hits.
using dirty trick you can throw sand into someones eyes and blind them for a round or so depending on the CMB result
or you could do a called shot get a normal hit and only get a 20% concealment(unless youve already hit the eyes once before)
All in all I like it but thats because When I play I go for style over anything else(that way when the bards sing of my characters tales they will never have to fluff it up, no need to fluff the already fluffy)
I have yet to use it but I personally think the best class to do called shots with would be the gunslinger(though they alraedy get a built in class called shot feature) just for the fact you target touch AC to hit the target so all of those -'s dont hurt your chances too much
my bad I thought that pistol training gave you a +1 to damage at level 5 but it doesnt till level 9.
so 10d8 + 95 is correct
however
mysterious stranger level 1 deed:
Focused Aim (Ex): At 1st level, as a swift action, the
mysterious stranger can spend 1 grit point to gain a
bonus on all firearm damage rolls equal to her Charisma
modifier (minimum 1) with all firearm attacks she makes
until the end of her turn. At 7th level, when she uses the
dead shot deed, she multiplies this bonus by the number
of hits she made while rolling the Dead Shot attack. This
deed replaces the quick clear deed.
well lets say the gunslinger is level 6 and has twf, rapid shot, improved twf, quick draw and point blank shot
that would be 5 attacks(2 from bab, 2 from twf tree, and rapid shot for the 5th)
assuming all hit even with the butt ton of penalties
that would be
10 attacks so
10d8 + 10xdex(assume 18 dex just because so +4) + 45 (HtG: 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9)+ 10(PBS), if pistolaro add +10 from gun training, if mysterious stranger then 10xcha mod in damage(assume 16, having grit is awesome.)
so 10d8 + 105(pistolaro with 18 dex)
or 10d8 + 125(mysterious stranger with 18 dex and 16 cha)
expensive as hell and it would take forever to recover your guns youre just throwing around but id say thats some nice damage at level 6 lol
*on a side note*
Splash in 2 levels of Titan mauler Barb and dual wield double barrel muskets so those d8s are d12s instead
