Sanvil Trett

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Organized Play Member. 12 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 Organized Play character.


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wakedown wrote:
WatersLethe wrote:
One thing I'm curious about, is why there was such a big push to get more damage dice rather than boosting static modifiers? Is rolling handfuls of dice for every melee attack really that important?

After some discussion, it almost feels like PF2e was designed to make every little operation in the game be more time-consuming and cumbersome for the average gamer.

That way your gutcheck when picking your fantasy tabletop system is "wow, PF2e is way more heavy than 5e".

A little playtesting and it's pretty apparent that the game (as it exists today in the playtest) finds every possible way to be bulkier than its 5e counterpart (which some folks will like and some will not like).

1. Watching players have to roll more dice (and instead of pick the highest, making them add them all up). To me, it seems like folks are getting worse at basic addition each day.

2. Watching players figure out how to use 3 actions per turn (vs an action and bonus action). "Guys, whats the best way for me to use my last action?"

3. Watching players remember if their action took 1 action, 2 action or 3 actions, or a variable number and what that variable number of actions does.

4. Watching some players take 3 move actions and start counting out squares on a tactical map and lose their place and then have to start over and wonder where they started again.

5. Having players who are a bit math handicapped tell you, "uhh, I hit in the low 20s" and then telling them you need an exact number because you now need to determine if they beat the target by more than 10 since the effect will be different (or vice versa) and then waiting so folks who used to give you "low 20s" as a result" now need to always deliver the exact number.

This will certainly be an uphill battle for PF2e. While a better balanced system from PF1e, he switch cost from PF1e to PF2e is substantially higher than from PF1e to 5e, which will mean many groups stick to PF1e or if they opt to switch they switch to the system...

Have you ever played a high level Pathfinder Game where each caster takes 10 minutes each round? I don’t think it will be much more or less cumbersone than that.

But back to your points?
1- Yeah, You can’t go lower that 5e so going for more dice will make E2 stand out for that player that may want to try it. Level 20 barbarian Crit rolls 12d12 Muahahaha!

2- Once you get used to it is more or less the Same, in 5e a level 11 Fighter will attack 3 or 6 times and move attack keep moving and keep attacking is standard in 5e.

3- if you are used to: Player: I used my swift action, my main action and my move action, I’m good. Gm: ok next turn. Player: I’m using an immediate action to cast a spell. And then in his next turn. Player: I’ll use my swift action and then your GM: You used your immediate action so you can’t use your swift this turn, Palyer: I totally forgot that I Used it, Gm: Sure you did.

4- It happens all the time in Pathfinder and 5e, like all the time, for me at least once per session one player at the middle of movement says: where was I, o I forgot how many feet I moved. So nothing new here.

5-Maybe your GM can know your passive bonuses and you just tell them the roll and he will tell you if it crit or not.

People may like it or not, but I don’t find anything in the system that is more or less complicated than 1e pathifinder. Sure you have learn al the new action system, so you have more stuff to learn, and sure some players have known this rules (3.5) for many years.

But like any system after a couple of sessions with a good GM where you tell him what you want to do and he tells you how the system handles it, it's going to be fine.

But well this is a beta test to test, and that’s what I’m going to do.

rooneg wrote:
FWIW, I agree with this. I think there are brilliant things in this new version of the game, but I also think the playtest is a long way from being what it should be. Some of that is just things that could benefit from another editing pass (Piercing only for Bastard Swords?). Some of it is stuff that I assume is intended for the final versions of the classes but got skipped due to time pressure (I can't imagine that a DEX fighter is intended to get all those proficiencies in Heavy Armor for example). If we're testing just a subset of the final game that's fine, but I'd like that to be made clear, because if this is indeed the intended limitations of the final core system that's a very different game than I was hoping for.

I disagree with you. The Play test is for that testing, we are testing the game, testing the math, the new mechanics, new action economy, how fast we get killed, crit system and so on.

The rules have been out for less than a week and I bet more people have played with them that any internal testing could have been done in a year.

Sure there is plenty of stuff there to polish, I’m with you with the bastard sword, I can’t imagine not being able to do slashing damage. But maybe it only does piercing damage for testing purpose. Like if it’s slashing piercing and 1d12, you may not use it because it’s just a more expensive strait better great sword
Also Enlarge person and the huge barbarian weapon sizes and so on.

All I see in the rules I see there to be tested, nothing more nothing less. If you want to know why and what are we testing in each mechanic, then cool but don’t expect a response in less than a week.

Yeah, im with the notion that one resonace per day to use the bag is RAI, but yeah, if its strange.

Yeap the rules for "actions" in pathfinder are a nightmare.

We can be used to them and know them back and forth, but they are a nightmare none the less. I had like 3 minutes conversation if as part of a move action I can make a jump over a table climb a little wall and then make mi single attack.

Or the fact that I need to actively search ways to use swift action to improve my action economy.

I’m glad for the more stream lined system.

My favorite barbarian is 5e.
As a first totem pic bear totem I had a blast using my dex + con to armor runing shirtless, what's more barbarian than that. Having a standard ac and on top of that every damage gets cut in half during rage. Using a greatsword and not caring about safety because you are have so much health.

Personally there where 3 or 4 good archetypes for barbarian on pathfinder.
And invulnerable rager is one of them.

And despite all the cool rage powers for me not going pounce and supersticion was like why I'm playing barbarian if not for those powers.

Back to topic my ideal barbarian. Is a shirtless two handed warrior that cares little for his own safety because he knows he is tough as nails.

We don’t know how the classes will progress aside from class feats and so on.

And we know if a caster wants to cast 3 spells on a round he can, as long as they have one component.

So if they give a class spellstrike and they state as part of the somatic component or touch spell, you can make a melee attack.

So let’s say Shocking Grasp is a level 1 VS spell of touch range
A level 1 magus can use spellstrike to cast the spell and attack, and then attack a second time with his sword at the usual -5.

Or let’s say you have a spell that is only verbal touch, then you can power attack and then spellstrike with the spell with 1 component only with -5.

And there you go, the first part of what makes a magus a magus.

The second part is that as you level up you can use full amour without arcane spell failure chance.

The third is arcane points.

The fourth are Arcanas and they are Magus Feats.

Well if we don’t get it as core I hope it will be easy enough to homebrew.

(I know that dual wilding changed a lot now, you make attacks with each weapon with any of your action but you get a lesser penalty that attacking multiple times with the same weapon. That’s why spell combat is not really needed)

I love the Magus so sure why not, I sign on the "petition".

If we want to argue what is “core” and what is not, then we can say how many roles do you need on computer mmo game you say tank, healer and dps.

BUT this is not a mmo. CORE is the classes you can play at launch so I’ll say I want to play a magus at the play test.

So I love alchemist as a day 1 class, it’s different and fun. That doesn’t rely on magic.
I don’t know which classes will be at launch but I guess this are the ones.

Non magical users Alchemist, Fighter, Rogue, Barbarian and Monk.
Divine Magical user Cleric, Paladin, Ranger, Druid.
Arcane Caster user Wizard, Bard, Sorcerer.

If you ask me ill drop one class to add the Magus I would drop the monk so we have 4 arcane classes.

I love monks, but it’s always hard to say what they bring to the table.
But that’s just me.

dragonhunterq wrote:
Such as the distance you fall in a single round.

If Golarion has gravity close to earths you can say that on a single round you can fall around 40 feet, to not complicate to much the mathematics.

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I don't remember what they said about saves on the play tests.

But you can always go with 5e idea where every stat has a save. you want to break free from some vines, you use str save, you want to resist a poison you use con save, you want to dodge a fireball you use dex save, you want know if something is an illusion you use int save, you don’t want to be afraid by a spell you use will save, you don’t want to dominated by a spell use char save.

You can even give a spell two saves, and a player can pick witch one they want to use, something like the Entangle spell.

Both ideas work for me, normal pathfinder 1 saves feels less rewarding and more punishing than double stats save or every stat saves. Well with all stat save every classes will be punished by different stuff.

I have always hated 3.5 and pathfinder economy doesn’t make much sense.

How much money is in the world? If a peasant can survive one year with 10-100 gold one single magical item of 1000gp is enough to sustain him for 10 years or 10 people 1 year.

Now mid level character selling all his stuff can possible sustain a town (28.000gp can sustain 280 people for one year).

Once you start to notice how brokenly rich your character is then you start to think who else has enough money to buy and sell the entire live hood of a town on a single whim, can really a merchant have in stock magical items that are as expensive as a town or a warship, a single warship cost up to 25,000).

At one point it doesn’t make any sense the economy of the world, it‘s broken by magic, and you need to scrap it and start again.

But that’s maybe just me because I like economical studies in general.

(By that extent I prefer to play with low magical setting with Automatic Bonus Progression)

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On the other side racial traits are now more or less called ancestry feats, I can live with that.

It was always bothersome telling every one, ok I'm a human but I have Heart of the Fields instead of X also I have Y instead of Z and so on.
This way is more streamlined I’ll be hyped to hear more how it work on Friday.

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I love Goblins as Core because: why not, its pathfinder it’s not D&D you have to make things a little different.

I had good and bad experience playing with players and one of my better ones was with a player playing a Goblin barbarian (he wanted to be chaotic evil before the first session, I was going to play a paladin, and after that first I detect evil and if you are an evil goblin I’m going to kill you on sight thing he became a fun Chaotic neutral)and I was a Paladin, and they became the best of friends in that campaign, My paladin was trying to teach him to be a civilized force of good, and well he wanted to kill big things because he was little but strong, and most of the time eat what he killed.

In D&D 5E they have core races like Tieflings, Dragonborn, Half-Orc.
So if some one can play with a half demon or half monster or a draconic thing why not let them play with a goblin, actually a good lawful goblin paladin in shinny armor.