Renkosuke's page

Literally summon a sun in the middle of his field.

I like this option because the damage is so low it probably won't kill him!

I actually really like this idea as well. The concept of using passive+active feats to slowly customize your character/blast fits really well into the kineticist fantasy (at least it does for me). I can see this also helping to smooth out the inherent imbalance in the basic elemental blasts, since you could now just set them all as d6 + 1 trait (or whatever other baseline seems appropriate) then use feats to slowly improve or expand them. This would also help prevent other classes from poaching kinetic blasts once the multiclass archetype comes out, since presumably kinetic blast would be one of its key features and any other martial picking it up would automatically be more skilled in it (because of the +1 stat difference) (they could still poach the blasts ofc, but now the kineticist at least gets extra bits and bobs added on from all their feats).

This would require a pretty big overhaul of basically all of the feats, but they probably need it anyway.

Considering you're also at a penalty compared to most martials when using Elemental Blasts, both are feelsbad options. They put a lot of emphasis on the all day utility aspect of the class, and also seem to be overcompensating for the at-will actions by making them feel pretty weak. A lot of impulses seem to go "obsolete" as you move up the chain too, which feels like bad design to me. Power Attack on a fighter is useful throughout the fighter's lifetime, but I don't see anyone using Flame Eruption after getting Blazing Wave and/or Solar Detonation (not that they're particularly exciting either but just an example).

More to the point, I saw someone else comparing high level impulses to focus spells, since by level 18 you can have 3 reusable focus spells per combat, which is usually enough to say that you have all day casting of them. In that situation, impulses fall behind pretty dramatically, though I don't have any specific numbers to really drive the point home.

This is just a general list of issues I took with the playtest kineticist, as of this moment. Some of these are probably posted elsewhere as well. As a disclaimer, I haven't actually tested anything out in an actual game (since it's still the first day).

--Core Issues--
1) Constitution: I'm on the fence about this one. Thematically I love it, but mechanically it has problems: if it's used for too much, then it becomes a god stat, and if it's used for too little then it feels like a debuff on the class. I don't have a solution for this, but reintroducing burn or even just a "take damage to gain buffs" mechanic might work.

2) Weapon proficiency: This feels unnecessary. Key score constitution already puts a debuff on accuracy, and the other classes that have the same issue (Thaumaturge, Inventor, Investigator) have core features that mitigate it (like Devise a Stratagem) on top of having standard martial proficiency progression.

3) Melee Elemental Blasts provoke AoOs: (Because of the Impulse trait) This is *probably* on purpose, but I feel like it's unnecessary on top of all of the other difficulties that kineticists will have making attacks. If the kineticist had on-par attack bonus scaling with all the other non-fighter martials, then I could live with this staying in.

--Basic Class Feats--
4) Elemental Weapon: The feat makes no mention of damage scaling (only that the damage type is the same as the gathered element). As written, it doesn't gain any benefits from handwrap runes and there's no good method of applying its own runes (aside from holding on to it for a day while someone inscribes runes onto it, and then never letting go ever again). I imagine this is just an oversight and I know you can use elemental blasts through it, but as it's written right now it's actually a debuff since it restricts what kind of blasts you can use. Also, it mentions that you have to choose a one-handed weapon, but I imagine you could still choose a weapon with the two-handed trait (like a Bastard Sword) and end up wielding it in 2 hands anyway.

5) Kinetic Activation: More of a quality of life thing, but adding a line that lets you identify scrolls like a spellcaster would be nice (ie: you can automatically identify scrolls that have spells of your element, without needing a check).

6) Flourish actions: There are none, despite a lot of other classes normally having the flourish tag on a lot of similar actions. Blast Barrage, Cycling Blast, and Chain Blasts come to mind. I can't tell if this is on purpose or not, but I feel like they should probably have the flourish tag (Cycling Blast I can see not needing it as much). If nothing else than to prevent them from being used alongside other flourishes (like skirmish strike or, hamster forbid, flurry of blows).

7) Deconstruct Element: Considering this is both an impulse action, and requires Dedicated Gate, the line at the end allowing you to immediately Gather the Element feels inconsequential. Thematically cool though.

--Air Feats--
8) Soothing Breeze: What's the range of this, or is it supposed to be a 20ft emanation?

9) Fair Winds: Considering there is no save for this ability, it seems... strong. Especially with Aura Shaping. And it automatically distinguishes friend from foe.

10) Wings of Air: At-will flight at level 8? For the whole party at level 14? And it's actually better than all other on-level equivalents? Seems... also very strong.

--Fire Feats--
11) Flame Eruption: The damage from this feels wayyy too low for an overflow ability, even with the hazardous terrain (which in theory ticks a maximum of two times per cast, unless push/pull effects are used). Using Stoke Element to boost its damage makes its damage *reasonable* but costs a total of 4 actions. Either the overflow trait needs to be removed or the damage needs to be increased (2d6 base with +d6 per 2 levels feels like the bare minimum).

12) Blazing Wave: This hits the bare minimum for damage, but still feels kinda bad. The prone effect feels somewhat arbitrary too. I feel that persistent fire damage would be more thematic here (also there seems to be a lack of persistent fire damage in general).

13) Furnace Form: Do the Produce Flame spells from Fiery Body use Charisma? And Trained proficiency? It feels relevant since the 1-action produce flame is bound to be a lot more powerful than your fire blast strikes at that level.

14) Arrive in Conflagration: This ability is great, but the teleport requirements are a bit steep. The only way to actually cause persistent fire damage as a pyrokineticist is to critically hit on an Elemental Blast or with the Horrid Ignition feat, which is curiously the same level as Arrive in Conflagration.

15) All Shall End in Flames: Since kineticists have Evasion, having the option to choose to fail the save against this impulse would make its utility a lot more reliable. Also it's somewhat unclear whether Elemental Immunity replaces Elemental Resistance or simply adds to it -- in the latter case, you would also resist the damage from this impulse, making it even less reliable to use for its utility.

I don't have anything to say about the Earth and Water feats since they seem to be relatively balanced with respect to the rest of the class, and I obviously haven't played them yet to see how their utility/damage output balances overall.

My overall takeaway is that the numbers for this class feel slightly underwhelming but its all-day utility potential is relatively high. Auras and utility feats seem to be the way to go, alongside a few key damaging abilities (Blast Barrage and Chain Blasts come to mind).

In regards to the Bespell Strikes feat only being 4 uses per day... I feel like a lot of people are forgetting that Focus spells are still spells, and the only requirement is that the spell cast is not a cantrip (ie: spells from staves, wands, and scrolls would theoretically also work with this). Even without items though, casting one of your magus focus spells basically gives you a 1-action Bespell Strikes proc usable once per combat, and up to two more times per day if necessary (if you take the other focus feats or just have a bigger pool for whatever reason).

Also imo the 12th level Bespelled Persistence feat is pretty decent with the right build. It's a reliable source of persistent damage that applies on a standard hit, and since the damage type is based on the weapon you use with the right set up you can stack a lot of different persistent damage effects on one (or more) enemies. Even with limited spell slots, I can see Runic Impression -> Bespell Strikes [force] -> Strike x2, into a Striking Spell -> Generic Attack Spell -> Bespell Strikes [Something Else] -> Strike x1. It's a reasonable amount of damage by itself and even better if you manage to hit an elemental weakness of some sort. Persistent force damage on an incorporeal target is always nice too.

Most of what I am going to say has been said before, but I have a few points I haven't noticed yet. Also, I will disclaimer this with saying that I have only played up to 4th level, so that is what I'm most familiar with.

I like the idea of resonance points. It's been pointed out that they remove CHA as a dump stat (not that dumping is really a thing right now) and they force the player to make conscious choices about his magic items.

As far as I can see with my limited amount of playtest games, the Resonance system has 2 faults:

1) It heavily reduces the adventuring day for parties without an innate form of healing, reducing the diversity in successful party comps, and

2) The resonance point economy still favors items which have passive effects, similar to how the Big 6 worked in PF1.

In regards to #1, I felt that the CLW wand spam was a necessary evil to allow players to freely choose what characters they wanted to use instead of having to be forced into the classic Wizard-Rogue-Fighter-Cleric basic 4 composition. Obviously this is over simplified, but cheap level 1 wands did allow for a greater diversity of party compositions (I remember a PFS scenario where my party consisted of 4 wizards, a sorc, and myself as a kineticist. We had our challenges and I had to be the frontliner but it was that kind of diversity that made random-party online PFS not only viable but exciting and unique, in my opinion at least) (I realize I say "diversity" when 5/6 of that party was arcane but that's not the point >.>)

Of course, if having a CLW wand is the equivalent of having a cleric, then you'll see the cleric role losing its identity as a healer class, but this can be addressed with specific nerfs to wands (like how they were reduced to 10 charges).

As for #2, I feel that there should be a revision of the RP cost-to-benefit of many of the magical items. The Bracers of Missile Deflection were mentioned before, but I agree in how terrible they seem. You need 1 RP just to invest them (with no passive attached) then another RP each time you want to use them. Removing either of these costs would be fine to me (although I would prefer removing the activation cost, as it already costs a precious Reaction and is against only a single ranged attack). Similarly, trinkets seem to cost far more than they're worth, both in GP and RP (making these invested 1/day items or something similar would be fine imo but I can see how trinkets can get out of hand).

At the moment, the items most useful for RP use are: Weapons, Armor, and Staves. Weapons and Armor are pretty obvious choices and are mandatory to any martial class, but for spellcasters a staff is also an incredibly useful item because of its passive investment bonus. Having to spend RP on any item other than these 3 generally feels bad, especially if it's a consumable. I feel like this only exasperates the "Big 6" problem.

As for potential solutions, I would prefer to keep the Resonance system, but do agree that the cost should probably be removed from consumables. As a compromise, I think it'd be okay to make wands invested items but remove the RP cost for activating them. With only 10 charges, this means you can't spam them quite as much as you'd like, making higher-level wands more appealing at higher levels. To compensate for this, I also think that the total number of RP should be modified (overall reduced). Level + CHA at low levels is -way- too little, esp for CHA8 dwarves, but also too high at high levels, where you really don't have many places to spend all of those points (unless you spam wands or consumables). If you both remove the RP cost from consumables and reduce the total number of RP available, not only do you make a decent replacement for item slots but you also make the Extra Resonance feat more appealing. I'm sure the Paizo PF2 team is a lot better at numbers than I am, but for reference I was thinking of something like 2+CHA at level 1, plus 1 at 5, 10, 15, and 20.

Those are my 2 cp on the matter, but I am also compelled by law to ask when you're going to add in kineticists to PF2 :)

Mark! I have a very important and slightly urgent question that needs your attention.

What's your opinion on ducks?

Just a heads-up to you guys: There was a recent meeting with various teams where we've been requested to move FAQ Friday to FAQ Tuesday so it doesn't abut a weekend (since answering questions can often lead to grar from stakeholders in the answer we didn't give, but people aren't at the office to moderate on weekends). So there should be a pretty frequently asked question this coming Tuesday for our first FAQ Tuesday!

Can we at least rename it to Foozday? ._.

Although this isn't the place to discuss rules (as opposed to asking them from the Great Seifter) I just wanted to chip into Dark Midian's response in that a Fire Blast can be classified as a spell depending on how you interpret Spell-Like Abilities (this is a can of worms).

Also, Infusions/Utilities and Feats sorta exist on a 1-to-1 basis, although infusions/utilities tend to be somewhat stronger than feats most of the time (my reasoning for this is the Elemental Annihilator, which trades out utilities for bonus feats on a 1-to-1 basis, plus the Extra Wild Talent feat).

Burning Amplification actually functions inferior to Burning Infusion (penalty on attack roll/save, still requires a separate save for the fire, no immediate catch-on-fire damage, no bonus to hit/SR checks/etc. for the rest of your fire blasts), so I don't think this trade-off is entirely bad. If you're trying to stack it with another substance infusion to essentially double-down, you're still taking the -1 DC and whatnot. Plus you don't benefit from searing flame when using the feat. All in all, I don't really see a reason to disallow it.

I am going to go slither back into hiding now.

Hi Mark,

Has there been any word with how Two-Weapon Rend works with an Elemental Annihilator? When I asked you something like half a year ago, you mentioned that since Double Slice and whatnot are called out to use Con instead of Strength, then Two-Weapon Rend, which is one of the bonus feats, should probably also use Con instead of strength, but there hasn't been any campaign clarifications or FAQs that reference it.

Just wondering, mostly for future reference. Thanks a lot!

Woot! Thanks Isabelle :)

For the record, I really enjoy the class concept. I can't wait to take it out for a spin!

Renkosuke wrote:

Mark Seifter wrote:

If you like brainstorming weird past life ideas, I'm doing so for an amnesiac samsaran psychic who's much more ruled by her past lives than normal for an Ironfang Invasion campaign starting on Saturday. Right now I'm collecting ideas on my Facebook fan page, but I can peek on this thread as well. My goal is to have a d20 chart (or d100 chart eventually if I get ambitious) that I can use to decide which ancestor is more prominent. I mentioned more details on my post in the link, but the short version is most of the ancestors should be from Tian Xia, and something short like "vigilante attempting to undermine Imperial Lung Wa" is what I'm gathering right now.

I think this is an amazing character concept, but I also think it would work better with medium than psychic (to be fair, I haven't read into psychic as much as I have medium). The reason I say this is probably pretty obvious, but since you can switch your "role" by choosing which spirit to channel that day, it would make it easier for you to roll a d20/d100, look at the chart and say "oh, today's personality is that of a chainsaw-wielding maniac" or "Ah, looks like I am playing a rogue today", etc. etc.

I don't know too much about Ironfang but if it allows chainsaws I find it hard to say no to at least one past-life using one of those :D

//edit
Blah I didn't read much into the linked thread but now I realize you chose the class via poll (darn I would have totally voted for Kineticist :P ). I am still very interested to see how you will implement the different personalities into your psychic though!

The plan is to use amnesiac archetype in order to do something similar via spell selection. Medium was on the table, including for this concept, but the group is a little too tilted towards meleers to allow me great breathing room as a medium to swap around without affecting party balance, so repicking my spell list but still...

I completely forgot about amnesiac! That sounds like a pretty exciting concept actually. I'd love to see how it turns out. I'd post some ideas but I've got the creativity of a concrete block, so perhaps that's not the best idea :P

Entirely off (on?) topic but here's a question concerning the Kinetic Knight that you may or may not have already answered (apologies if you have). The archetype's Elemental Blade class feature mentions that it "alters Infusions" but it doesn't actually say it removes the infusion choices at the levels which the archetype gains all of its melee stuff. In other words, I'm not sure whether the archetype replaces the infusions you normally gain at levels 1, 3, 5, 9, and 11 or if it's just altering the way you can use them (ie: only kinetic blade form infusions, plus substance) but allowing you to choose the (not very plentiful) substance infusions at all of those levels. The latter seems quite powerful (and an overwhelming amount of infusions!) but at the same time it does remove Metakinesis entirely, plus remove the Knight's ranged options.

--considering that Knight's resolve does replace the level 3 infusion, I would assume it's actually the latter case. This makes the Purist Knight an interesting option too (even if only to actually be able to use all those infusions).

If you like brainstorming weird past life ideas, I'm doing so for an amnesiac samsaran psychic who's much more ruled by her past lives than normal for an Ironfang Invasion campaign starting on Saturday. Right now I'm collecting ideas on my Facebook fan page, but I can peek on this thread as well. My goal is to have a d20 chart (or d100 chart eventually if I get ambitious) that I can use to decide which ancestor is more prominent. I mentioned more details on my post in the link, but the short version is most of the ancestors should be from Tian Xia, and something short like "vigilante attempting to undermine Imperial Lung Wa" is what I'm gathering right now.

I think this is an amazing character concept, but I also think it would work better with medium than psychic (to be fair, I haven't read into psychic as much as I have medium). The reason I say this is probably pretty obvious, but since you can switch your "role" by choosing which spirit to channel that day, it would make it easier for you to roll a d20/d100, look at the chart and say "oh, today's personality is that of a chainsaw-wielding maniac" or "Ah, looks like I am playing a rogue today", etc. etc.

I don't know too much about Ironfang but if it allows chainsaws I find it hard to say no to at least one past-life using one of those :D

//edit
Blah I didn't read much into the linked thread but now I realize you chose the class via poll (darn I would have totally voted for Kineticist :P ). I am still very interested to see how you will implement the different personalities into your psychic though!

Coincidentally, would this also mean that feats like Elemental Focus and the Affinity for the Elements trait don't function with Kinetic Blasts?

GM Tyrant Princess wrote:

Just rule against it. Someone's star count is no measure of their rules authority, and you have the designer who created the class right there, all but saying that it doesn't officially work that way. If your player contests it, tell him to take it up the chain.

Isabelle is right. As written, it probably doesn't work with kineticist (pyromaniac lists precisely what class abilities it works with, and kineticist isn't on that list; it doesn't have any "and so on" wording). I presented a possible houserule to allow it on caster level checks as a potential compromise between the likely as-written (no effect) and the game-balance-issue other possibility of "+1 level for all things of that element, which for kineticist is the entire class".

Alright, thanks! I think the largest argument on the side that it does work was "casting spells with the fire descriptor", which was argued to work with SLA's because SLA's say they work in every other way like spells (aside from the lack of components and whatnot). Of course, in practice there are a lot of places where SLAs differ from Spells, but from now on I'll point them toward this thread and look smug.

Kalindlara wrote:

That said, here's Mark Seifter (in all the glory of his Paizo staff regalia) explaining his recommendations for houseruling kineticists with Pyromaniac. ^_^

I'd consider Mark Seifter's recommendations as official as it gets short of actual printed rules. :)

The statement is a bit obscure it its wording, though. The way I interpret it, he thinks Pyromaniac should apply to Gnome Pyrokineticists where caster level explicitly comes into play, but not raise the blast damage (which would be keyed to class level rather than caster level)...? That's disappointing, but I guess it makes sense.

This confuses me for two reasons.

2: The Spell-like Ability entry in the core rulebook mentions that with the exception of casting time and components required, an SLA functions in all ways like a spell.

It would follow that, as written, pyromaniac and stonesinger would not only affect kinetic blasts, they would add +1 levei to the calculation for damage and spell level. You can make the argument that character level ≠ kineticist level, but you can say the same for character level ≠ caster level for actual spells.

Without dev intervention, as written, this combination should work. Which is a shame since gnomes and dwarves are already solid kineticists. I would actually prefer this to get removed since otherwise I have to continue to put up with a certain Danish 5-star GM bringing his dwarf-oread kineticist to my tables T-T

@Shadow_Charlatan I would argue that an Aetheric Gravity Boosted Omnicide is probably the most damaging singular composite blast :D

I say singular because you could instead use Flurry of Blasts on it to hit 6 people with it (with haste), but then I could see the argument that over time, a Wall Omnicide could do more damage. That's a whole can of worms and I don't think that's what you were asking anyway so I'll just return to my corner over here...

Erm, but before that quick question for Mark! In Psychic Anthology (amazing book btw) there's a universal form infusion Blade Rush that says "instantly move 30 feet in any direction". Does this mean move exactly 30 feet? ie; are you allowed to move less than the full movement if you don't see the need to? Also, it says instantly move without provoking but does this allow someone to pass through (but not end up inside) an enemy's square?

Sorta related, but if you are falling during your turn, at what point do you begin falling? Since it's all part of one action, I imagine if you could use Blade Rush to move straight up and attack some flying creature (when you yourself lack that capability) before you start falling, but could you take any other actions? If so, what kinds would be permissible? ie: standard, move, swift, free? Does it depend on what the action does? (for example, using blade rush to leap up and then greater flame jet to maintain your position in the air as a free action, or continue moving as a move action).

This is starting to become a not "quick question" so I'll leave it here, but so far I am loving the new book. I am already using a few things in a campaign-style AP and I can't wait to see what Additional Resources makes of it :D

Thanks for answering all these questions! (I mean, I guess that's what the thread is for huh...)

Here's another question about wording and whatnot. The impale infusion reads:

Make a single attack roll against each creature or object in a 30-foot line, starting with the closest target. If the result is a critical threat, roll to confirm against only the first target you hit.

The line about the critical threat seems to imply that this means "Roll once, compare that result to every enemy's AC, roll damage against what you hit", but "Make a single attack roll against each creature or object" can be interpreted as meaning one attack roll per target.

I see it played the first way more often (ie: one attack roll, compare against all creatures) but that seems to make it pretty all-or-nothing since a lot of the time creatures bunched up that close together have similar ACs. Then again, perhaps that was the intent of the infusion in the first place...

I was planning on using this with an Air Purist, like one of those cool anime air cannons that blow holes through people and buildings and stuff (Big O immediately comes to mind).

Thanks for the Purist help, that information is definitely useful to have as I'm sure my next 3 characters will probably be purists :X

Random question about Phytokineticists -- I feel like this was probably addressed somewhere but I can't find it with my (admittingly poor) google-fu. The list of Wood Wild Talents on page 8 of Occult Origins lists Woodland Step as a level 2 utility, whereas the wild talent itself on page 9 lists it as a level 1 utility. Which one is correct?

Thanks!

Renkosuke wrote:

Follow-up question!

Would an Impossible Infusion that has text that specifically refers to specific types of blasts or damage keep that text when being impossibly infused? For example, Chilling Infusion says

Chilling Infusion wrote:

Whenever an infused blast deals cold damage to a foe, that foe is staggered for 1 round.

-- would this mean that if I used impossibly infused a fire blast with chilling infusion, that the fire blast wouldn't stagger anything because it would not deal cold damage?

Similarly, could you use Impossible Infusions to ignore other activation requirements, such as with Grappling Infusion which requires a Wall, Cloud, or Deadly Earth infusion, or would those requirements prevent you from Impossibly Infusing your blasts (unless you also infused them with a Wall, Cloud, or Deadly Earth infusion)?

I just checked with John on this to make sure he agreed, and you should be OK to replace deals XXold-damage with XXnew-damage whenever you are using an infusion meant for blasts that deal old-damage but actually deal new-damage, as long as you substitute energy for energy and physical for physical.

As to other activation requirements, those are still in there.

Thanks for checking this for me! Does this mean that if I use an impossible burning infusion with a cold blast, that the over-time damage would also be cold, or am I setting someone on fire with sheer cold?

Another question!

Does Kinetic Fist require an open hand to use? This might seem like an obvious "well, you have to use an unarmed strike for it right" question, but let's say as an example you have a kitsune with a greatsword (or two scizores to prevent him from temporarily releasing a hand on his/her weapon) trying to use kinetic fist with his bite attack.

The kinetic blast class feature says you need a free hand to use the kinetic blast, but does that apply if you infuse it with Kinetic Fist?

To take this to an extreme, can you use kinetic fist if you have no hands whatsoever? If you are a fox with kineticist levels, could you use kinetic fist with your chomp attacks? Even better, if you are a fox with monk and kineticist levels, could you make a flurry (furry?) of blows with your soft, fuzzy paws and also apply kinetic fist?

You might see where I'm going with this :P

Hi Mark!

So this archetype exists: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/archetypes/paizo---witch -archetypes/havocker-witch-archetype

My question is this: If you multiclass Kineticist and Havocker Witch, I assume your kinetic blast scales evenly across both classes (so your blast damage is equal to d6 * 0.5*(Kineticist Level + Witch Level + 1) -- but let me know if this assumption is wrong). In the Havocker's infusion section, it says that the witch "cannot accept burn" -- does this mean she can't accept burn period, even if she's also a kineticist who can normally accept burn, or does that just mean she doesn't have the burn class feature and so can't accept it unless she gains that class feature in some other way (ie: by becoming a kineticist)?

The wording there is kinda convoluted but I think you get what I'm asking.

For the most part I'm trying to give my aerokineticist one of these: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/magical-beasts/chuspiki

Not because it's particularly strong (although the damage is decent for a random familiar) -- the character token I use for this character just happens to have something that looks EXACTLY LIKE IT sitting on her shoulder, so I thought it'd be appropriate. At the moment I'm using Elemental Whispers to emulate a weasel, who will eventually become a wysp, but that's nowhere near flying weasel-rat with super-long tail and wings.

Hey Mark, are you a poodle or a chihuahua kind of guy?

And with that, I'm through page 109; since page 111 has a lot of answers in it, that means I'm more than halfway caught up now. Woo!

Hooray!

That means I need to think up more questions :D

Renkosuke wrote:

Mark Seifter wrote:

Khaokineticists can often be dark and moody, though of course darkness isn't always evil. After all, Yoon's grandmother was strict but kind, and she was Void/Fire, using her void powers to protect Yoon (until her defeat in battle). The Khaokineticist I added to Jade Regent had a fairly horrific backstory and wanted to withdraw into herself afterwards, though one of the PCs and a rapport psychic ghost emperor "helped" her through that. Phytokineticists might be mistaken for druids by the uninitiated, and they probably hang out in forests and other plant-heavy areas where they can commune with plants and also seriously stop most opposition cold with heavy crowd-control effects (seriously, phyto does suffer from lack of utility talents, but when you have terrain to use it, plant growth at will is terrifyingly effective).

I love the concept of Khaokineticists, but I am rather appalled at their lack of level 1 utility options. It's a choice between Void Healer (which is very rarely useful, especially when your race options are limited), Skilled Kineticist, or Elemental Whispers, and you can't even use Greater Elemental Whispers later on. The level 2+ stuff is great though!

Oh yes, on the topic of Khaokineticists, is the Emptiness defense talent designed to be stackable like most of the other defense talents, or do you gain its effect once, and then double it if you spend 1 burn (but are unable to spend additional burn to continue improving the effect)?

Dragon78 wrote:

Would it be possible to have a kineticist element based on an outer plane? astral plane? what about the material plane?

A material plane kineticist... don't we call those physicists? :D

Yeah, you should be able to stack it, but it looks like I either missed that initially or (more likely) cut it during copyfitting.

Excellent! This has been bothering me for quite a while now :X

1) Yeah, I was thinking basically a "synthetic" element created by mortal ingenuity, presumably with its own archetype, which is pretty close. It wouldn't be technology as the element (technology is something built, elements are fundamental building blocks), but alchemy and magic would have helped create the element.

I would also love to see this. Still screams out physicist to me but I'm just being pedantic :P

Khaokineticists can often be dark and moody, though of course darkness isn't always evil. After all, Yoon's grandmother was strict but kind, and she was Void/Fire, using her void powers to protect Yoon (until her defeat in battle). The Khaokineticist I added to Jade Regent had a fairly horrific backstory and wanted to withdraw into herself afterwards, though one of the PCs and a rapport psychic ghost emperor "helped" her through that. Phytokineticists might be mistaken for druids by the uninitiated, and they probably hang out in forests and other plant-heavy areas where they can commune with plants and also seriously stop most opposition cold with heavy crowd-control effects (seriously, phyto does suffer from lack of utility talents, but when you have terrain to use it, plant growth at will is terrifyingly effective).

I love the concept of Khaokineticists, but I am rather appalled at their lack of level 1 utility options. It's a choice between Void Healer (which is very rarely useful, especially when your race options are limited), Skilled Kineticist, or Elemental Whispers, and you can't even use Greater Elemental Whispers later on. The level 2+ stuff is great though!

Oh yes, on the topic of Khaokineticists, is the Emptiness defense talent designed to be stackable like most of the other defense talents, or do you gain its effect once, and then double it if you spend 1 burn (but are unable to spend additional burn to continue improving the effect)?

Would it be possible to have a kineticist element based on an outer plane? astral plane? what about the material plane?

A material plane kineticist... don't we call those physicists? :D

Samurai Jack is getting a new season this year! How do you feel about that?

As an additional question, the Magic Tactics Toolbox has the Expanded Metakinesis feat which allows a kineticist to choose from a list of very tasty metamagic feats to use as a 1-burn Metakinesis. Included in the list are:

Disrupting Spell, Ectoplasmic Spell, Furious Spell, Merciful Spell, Piercing Spell

Disrupting spell is a 3rd party metamagic feat which I assume wouldn't be purposefully referenced in a Paizo book, so should we all assume that the correct reading is disruptive spell?

Sorry if this has been asked before, but I thought it might be important (especially when people are sticklers for RAW).

Coincidentally, I found some debate on the forums but was there any official ruling on whether or not a spell using Disruptive Spell had to force a save (ie: have an obvious DC) in order to work with Disruptive Spell, or if you just used the DC that the spell would have if it required it?

Aether is a subtype, and aether elementals have it.

You are, of course, right. I was looking at my list of subtypes and didn't see aether in it, and for some reason I guess I just overlooked aether in the aether elemental entry. Strange...

I suppose I'll have to wait and see if some random monsters come out with the void and wood subtypes, but considering wood golems don't have that subtype... :P

Coincidentally, and entirely a different question, could you use Kinetic Blade/Whip to make a combat maneuver that normally replaces an attack, like a trip, disarm, or sunder? If so, could you also get a +1 to hit by using weapon focus (Kinetic Blast), etc. etc.? Is this still possible even using an energy blast, like a fire blast or cold blast (although the attack roll would still be vs CMD since afaik there is no such thing as touch CMD)?

In PFS, if something's in a grey area, it's going to be up to the GM to make a ruling; whatever I say here, it's not binding in PFS, just my take on it.

That's perfectly okay, I just wanted a base to build my own interpretations of these abilities off of. Knowing the intent of the developer makes it a lot easier to interpret rules as intended. At least for me :P

Like a blast, you don't need material on hand, but it does mean that your familiar appears unusual and possibly fairly awesome due to being made out of your element. No mechanical effects of this flavor, though.

Like using a Blood Kineticist to make a talking blood-thrush out of the blood of your enemies? :D

I'd say "of your primary element" means if your element is "X" you are looking for an "X elemental". There aren't elementals for void and wood.

Would this mean that a Telekineticist can take a small Aether Elemental as an improved elemental, despite the fact that generally you're not allowed to summon or choose one as a familiar? (In PFS anyway, I'm sure most home-game GMs are lenient enough to allow it)

Boosts can use the infusions of the simple blast they enhance. So you could indeed chain a boosted lightning blast. Admixtures are different and have few infusions.

Yikes. That is terrifying.

I don't see why gravitic boost would disallow telekinetic; it's a simple physical blast. If you go Void/Aether/Void or Void/Void/Aether you can even aetheric boost + gravitic boost a void blast for high damage.

Oh, I actually meant Gravitic boosting a gravity blast, since the prerequisites ask for gravity blast and another physical blast. But should I take that as saying you can aetheric boost a telekinetic blast?

And one new question: Can you use Draining Infusion with the Wood, Void, or Aether elements or are you better off looking for something else? With wood and aether it doesn't matter as much since they're physical blasts and can theoretically deal with anything, but it matters for negative blast void kineticists and it also feels strange you can't drain an Aether Elemental, because they don't have the "Aether" subtype (since it doesn't exist as a subtype).

Thanks as always! :3

Hi Mark!
As you have cleaned up your queue of questions, I am here to refill it!
Here are a couple random things I've been wondering about for a while. Everything is Kineticist-related of course :P

Just to make things simple (or perhaps more complicated), all of these questions are being asked using PFS as a frame of reference. Depending on how good your personal Bluff/Diplomacy skills are, you could probably convince a home-game GM of running it any way you wanted to, but that's a conversation for another day :P

Elemental Whispers
1) The first version of this ability states that you can create your familiar out of your element. I assume this means you need to have some of it nearby, so some water for a hydrokineticist or fire for a pyrokineticist. Is this meant to be a limiting factor on when you can manifest your familiar or is it just for flavor? Does the familiar keep the same consistency and appearance of the element, or look (at least for the most part) like a normal-ish animal of its type? Do telekineticists always have access to Aether in order to manifest their familiar? Can you use your blast/basic -kinesis abilities to create the materials necessary for summoning the familiar? (For example, filling a bucket with water to summon a hydrokineticist's familiar). What does a void kineticist use?

2) For the Greater version, what kind of elemental are you allowed to choose with each element? Was it intended to just use the basic types (Air, Earth, Fire, Water) and not their fancy versions (Lightning, Ice, Magma, etc.)? From a PFS perspective, would the Aether elemental even be legal, since it's not usually a monster you can have as a familiar or summon with Summon Monster? On the same subject, do Void/Wood kineticists get anything out of Greater Elemental Whispers or are they just sad? (Considering that there are no void or wood wysps and technically no void/wood elementals either). From a logical perspective, I imagine Void kineticists would get Negative Energy Elementals or something of the sort, but I wouldn't know how to make that fly in PFS, and I have absolutely no clue what you would give a phytokineticist.

Spark of Life
This is just a follow-up of the previous question: What elementals are allowed for use with this ability? Since it references Summon Monster, I assume you can only use the basic elemental types, ie: Fire, Water, Earth, and Air, which would make this ability unusable for aether, void, and wood kineticists. I can see Aether Puppet as a "replacement" ability for the telekineticist but that still leaves Void feeling sad and left out :(

Negative Admixture, Aetheric Boost, Gravitic Boost
1) This is a relatively simple question, but what do these blasts count as? Are they their own respective composite blasts? Or do they simply "improve" the other blast that they're mixing with? The main purpose of this question is to ask what infusions are usable with these blasts... since there is no reference to any of these blasts in the lists of associated blasts for various infusions, am I right in thinking that they're designed to be standalone blasts that are only usable with universal infusions? Or do they simply count as a composite version of the blast they modify? The biggest thing I can think of that this question would affect is whether or not you could Chain Infusion a Negative-Lightning blast, but I'm sure there are plenty of other strange and amusing combinations.

2) Also, can you Aetheric boost a Telekinetic Blast? I know that the wording for Gravitic Boost disallows it but I couldn't find anything that would imply the same for Aetheric Boost...

3) How does Gravitic/Aetheric boost (and Fire's Fury for that matter) interact with Kinetic fist? Do you lose the upgrades (since Kinetic Fist specifically calls out d6s) or does the damage get added on/damage die get improved?

Since it's almost lunch time and I suppose I should get work done at -some- point today, I'll leave it at this for now. Thanks as always Mark, I super appreciate it!!

Better hurry Mark, the list of questions is growing ;)

I'll refrain from throwing on another pile of Kineticist questions until you get through all of your current stuff though!

Hi Mark! Long time no questions :P

Here's a quick one: Do the extra dice from Kinetic Fist get multiplied on a critical hit? From what i heard, "extra dice" to an attack are never multiplied on critical, but I can't find the source of that rule anywhere (I might just not be looking hard enough though...). I can see how this makes sense with stuff like Bane and Sneak Attack, but considering how the extra dice on Kinetic Fist are essentially an Ascetics main source of variable damage, it didn't make too much sense to me.

How would you rule this, conforming to PFS standards?

Whew, that was quick!
Thanks for the speedy reply! It seems that by PFS standards, that probably means I need to rework my character's FCB points, but on the bright side at least I'll have some extra HP/Skill points!

Yes, I definitely like that aspect of the Draining Fist Style :D
Unfortunately, the air elemental I was draining/eating decided to die before I could do anything else cool so that was unfortunate :/

Coincidentally, what do you think you would prefer: Boar Style to add some nice extra damage on a double-hit, or Expanded Metakinesis for Furious Spell to put back some of the "Elemental" in my Ascetic? At the moment I'm doing so much unarmed damage that I feel like I'm both building her wrong and taking Kineticist ranks just for the awesome jumping power (since I went aero with this one). Then again, there is a certain pleasure in jumping over walls that your peon-like teammates simply walk around.

Hello hello!
Hope you are having a good day!

So, it has come to my attention recently that you are not able to take a fcb that improves a class feature which you do not yet possess, which makes sense. Does this apply for fcb that don't turn on until you get that feature anyway?

Specifically, Im referring to the halfling fcb that earns you an extra 1/6 internal buffer points. Since even 5/6 points rounds to 0, I could argue that its not actually improving anything. Then again, it is certainly strange to work up toward something that you don't even know yet, and Internal Buffer is pretty strong as it is.

Similarly, does that mean you can't start working on, say, the human kineticist fcb that gives you an extra wild talent feat until you could take that feat normally?

Thanks as always!

PS: My ascetic is doing great! And I have even used the legendary draining fist on one occasion

Hi Mark, more questions! Whee!

How does the Monk's Robe interact with the Elemental Ascetic's AC Bonus? Do you gain a +5 to your levels for that class feature (despite not being a monk), do you just get a +1 as the default for the Monk's Robe, or do you somehow gain the AC Bonus ability as a Monk would have it (so with a slightly faster AC progression) and a +5 on top of that?

Also, can you use Kinetic Blade with Two-Weapon Fighting to make 1) Off-hand attacks with a normal weapon with your Kinetic Blade as the primary and/or 2) Off-hand attacks with the Kinetic Blade, with a normal weapon as your primary?

Finally, a rules argument occurred in a table I was playing at over the mechanics of an Elemental Annihilator. The issue at hand was based on a player who believed he could form a Devastating Infusion to create a light weapon (as per the rules for Kinetic Blade) and then use 2 hands to wield that weapon to deal 1-1/2 Constitution Damage. His reasoning is that there's nothing that says you can't wield a light weapon with two hands, and the Elemental Annihilator's Devastating Infusion simply states that if you use 2 hands to attack with the weapon, then you add 1-1/2 Constitution to the damage roll, without any mention to the weapon having to be 1-Handed in order to do so.

Is this interpretation correct, or is it assumed that you still need to use a 1-Handed Weapon in order to gain the benefits of two-handing the Devastating Infusion (thus being unable to also use Weapon Finesse with it)?

Thanks as always!

Renkosuke wrote:

Hey Mark, I've come back with another strange idea.

So recently I've been browsing the magical weapons/enhancements sections of various books to see what kinds of enhancements I can give to my Elemental Ascetic, when I came across conductive. After reading through it (and the various forum posts about Kinetic Blast + Conductive) I realized that I can't use it on a melee attack because there's no way to gain a melee kinetic blast without using a form infusion, which would require an action that you're already doing.

So now I have the following questions:

1) In Telekinetic Blast's description, it has this line in it: ** spoiler omitted **

Could a Telekineticist use this ability with Kinetic Blade? For example, could a telekineticist holding a +1 short sword make a melee attack with that short sword for its normal damage (instead of kinetic blast damage), adding CON instead of STR as the damage modifier?

2) Similarly, the wording above implies that the weapon you throw need not be a ranged throwing weapon to deal its normal damage... So could you just throw your +1 short sword with Telekinetic Blast and have it deal damage as a +1 Short Sword (adding CON instead of STR to the damage roll, as per thrown weapon?)

3) Assuming the answer to #2 is...

1) I'd say you could.

2) Yep, so far so good.

3) That appears like it might be kosher, albeit complex, since you've nested an ability in on itself; however, at the very least, the 1/2 Con from the fire blast and the full Con from the ordinary throw I believe would not stack on your damage roll for the attack.

4) I'd say no; elemental annihilator has a specific over general rule with "always", so that particular form infusion overrides the option for the alternate telekinetic blast.

Okay! While rummaging around the forums I did find a thread from a while back where you stated that it was unlikely that you'd be able to use form infusions with conductive, so I imagine you couldn't use a +1 Conductive Short Sword in melee and throw kinetic blast damage on it because an energy kinetic blast is a ranged touch attack (that you can't use kinetic blade on) and a short sword is obviously a melee weapon.

If memory serves, in the same thread you also mentioned that you would probably be allowed to use substance infusions on those blasts, since while the "form" of the attack is determined by the weapon you're using to deliver it, the "substance" is still under your control. Would it also be possible to use metakinesis? What about composite blasts?

Finally, how much, if any, burn would you have to use to apply those options? Would "expend 2 uses" imply "take the burn cost twice" or would the argument "expend != use" apply here? Would it be easier on everyone if I just used the basic blast values for everything? I guess I don't really need an answer for that last one :P

Oh, an extra question: would the fact that an elemental ascetic has, but cannot use, a ranged kinetic blast without melee form infusions lock her out of using them with ranged weapons? And melee weapons too, since you can't use melee infusions with conductive?

Thanks again!

Renkosuke wrote:

Hi again!

Another Kineticist question! How does two-weapon rend work with Elemental Annihilators? Would the 1.5Str damage turn into 1.5Con damage or would it stay as Str? Theres nothing that says it would change, so RAW it would be Str. This seemed a little strange to me so a clarification would be greatly appreciated!

I think technically rend is always Strength-based. Given I called out Double Slice as switching to Con, it's not unreasonable to do the same with Two-Weapon Rend, given its on the bonus feat list. If I remember, I'll try to get that onto the list of contenders for whenever we reach the OA errata. Wow, that list is really small right now; nice!

Glad I could be of service then!

I still have many more kineticist questions, most of them being asinine wording questions or just clarifications, but I would be grateful if you would continue humoring me xD

So, yet another set of questions about the Elemental Ascetic:

1: If you apply the bowling, pushing, or pulling infusions onto your kinetic fists/kinetic blades/devastating infusions, would the combat maneuver checks provoke AOOs if you don't have the Improved feat for that particular maneuver (or any other random shenanigan like Dirty Fighting)?
Also, would pulling work on a 5ft melee attack as the standard pull combat maneuver (ie: you step back, and pull the enemy with you) or would it just attempt to pull the target closer to you and fail?

2: How does Empower interact with kinetic fist? Would it increase the additional damage dealt (so at level 7, Unarmed Damage + [d6*1.5] for a simple blast), would it actually give you extra dice (same level 7, Unarmed Damage + [2d6] (because empowered 4d6 sorta equals 6d6?)) or just not have any effect? Following that, would maximize affect Kinetic Fist's bonus damage? Double and quicken, I assume, would have no effect, correct?

3: The EA's AC Bonus (EX) ability says that monk levels and EA levels stack for regards to that same ability, but since the Unchained Monk also has the AC Bonus (granted it's no longer EX), would unchained levels also stack with this or would it be counted separately from the EA/Monk?

Calculating out the numbers, I have realized that once it gets rolling, the Elemental Ascetic can crank out some pretty absurd damage numbers. I'm actually pretty excited to play this archetype :D