Defense of Brookside

Game Master caster4life

I'd rather not use roll20 for maps for purely selfish reasons. I do pbp via my phone, and only my phone. It's been a while, but last time I checked roll20 didn't work very well on mobile. Though if that's changed I'd be down for trying it.

Yes it would definitely be players moving their own tokens. We would still track all mechanics here. That's how I always do it.

Fyrtor, it's not great on mobile but google slides is arguably just as bad, if not worse. It's so easy to accidentally select the wrong thing on google slides when just using your finger on a tiny screen.

Kazador, to make sure I don't pull the trigger too soon, just say who you take in gameplay when you've decided. But we do want to pull the trigger soon! Let's light this candle.

I had other Games migrate FROM Roll20 to Google Maps, and personally, I was happy on that.
I am not opposed to Roll20 if the GM desires it, but the login-delay irks me personally if I just quickly want to check something on the map, and I did have connectivitiy issues to it from work VPN in the past.
Neither is a dealbreaker, just saying personally I am not a huge fan.

@Who is going - with the end of my Haste Spell as signal to begin porting, we should be able to arrive almost simultaneously. While giving Kazador the coordinates for the center of the room, I would port towards a corner with Mel and Nelly(who is still reduced - not dismissing that for an indoor fight).

(Also, sorry, was gone for a extended weekend rather unexpected, visiting family).

@Brookside GM: Checking - if all the illumination in the room is provided by the fireplace, and Hal Hydraulic Pushed the fireplace - or better, then guy in front of the fireplace - would that put out the fire and plunge the room into darkness?

Sorry, the red X is the other door. The room is lit by two torches, one on each of the shorter walls.

How's everyone doing? It's been quiet for a while now.

Has been...what are we waiting for?

We're actually waiting for Fyrtor to take his surprise round action. Sorry that that wasn't clear in the spoiler, apparently.

Yup. It happened in two different posts because we D-Doored in as two groups, but Fyrtor, Hal, Mel and Nelly get surprise round actions. Hal and Mel have taken theirs, leaving Fyrtor and Nelly.

Ah yes. I forgot Nelly. Thank you, Melia.

Oof I didn't realize. I'll post soon as I can.

Curious, I was sure I already posted, but on retrospect, I think I wanted to make sure the math was correct and then didn't actually post.
Thanks for the reminder.

Good point Brookside GM: In this case it'd be modelled on an officer of the law securing someone (which he'd have experience of, though on the other end). Mechanically I think it'd be a grapple, followed by a pin, followed by restraints (if he had restraints).
If the man is cooperating it might go faster.

I grant it's not a great tactical move, but it fits what he's seen before - excepting assassination.

OK I'll rule it takes the same actions as normal but auto succeeds since the man isn't resisting. So grapple this turn then pin next if you like. Alternatively, you could tie him up or manacle him without pinning first since he isn't resisting.

Hmm. Not sure Hal actually has something to tie him up with. Certainly he does not have manacles. Spare shoelaces if that's okay?

Sure.

I can't post right now since I have to watch the kids, but I'll try to do so later today.
Posting because people may want to "delay" until after what happens, happens. Or at least make use of what it will mean: In effect, everybody we fight will be automatically stabilized unconsciously, no need to hold back to take prisoners.
Just saying :)

Oh, also, don't be reckless - despite the flavor-description, the actual mechanic is very much one-sided, only our enemies auto-stabilize at -1 HP, it doesn't work for us.
Just figured I should point that out before someone charges in blindly.

Oh good, the guy in the door is down. We need to avoid getting bottled up in here. Ideally, we could use the layout to our advantage. If we get the melee types out into the larger room, Mel can stand just in front of the south door, and the casters can use the little room we're in as a place to cast spells while staying safely out of melee.

As stated in the post, Nelly will move in and attack the suspected mage if he is not down by then.
Before locking that in, I'll wait to see what you do - she is 'reduced' to medium, and a quadruped, she should be providing much soft-cover for a standing target she is not in melee with - plus if she goes there, chances are she pulls him down with a trip that would make it harder for you to target him.
So, I'm firing my scorching ray and missiles, and Nelly is waiting for Mel to act before she decides what to do.
(Because IF you also target the mage I think there's a good chance we're bringing him down as well).

@Brookside GM: I agree invisibility won't trip the stated conditions for Hal's counterspell - essentially it'd be a waste.
Does Hal make the roll to know what in the hopefully-not-hells Túrion has called up? I'm being careful not to look...

I'm currently suspecting he'll either be chanting "Just a Hallus", run screaming out of the room, and/or introduce himself politely.

@Hal: Spellcraft was earlier in the thread, so you know it was SM IV - I dare say that your knowledge nature is also good enough to identify her type, as well as some tidbits -

@GM: Apologies if I went forward and shared a bit, but I think I didn't go too far there on the details with some general info from flavor text.

For the record, I was this => ||
close to having her call him onii-chan and deciding thats Sylvan for brother :D

I'm perfectly happy with Turion and Hal resolving spellcraft and IDing each other's stuff without me. I'll help resolve if there's any confusion but otherwise, bypassing me so I can focus on all the baddies I need to control is ideal.

I'm certainly happy with that.

I didn't cast this spell to torture Mel specifically. I just pick high level enemies from the bestiary when I need to throw something at you guys at that was the best bet. Occasionally, I build NPCs myself and optimize them for fun but use a lower level to compensate. But that takes a lot of time.

Meh. Them's the breaks.

I'm going to need to look at the 'casting while grappling' rules and Hal's equipment.
Hmm - so can cast spells with S (unless pinned), but has to make a concentration (d20+CL+int) vs (10+CMB+cast spell level). Is there a way to know what the CMB is ahead of time, given the tentacles spell is under observation from Arcane Sight? Even the Caster level would be good.
Actually, given I'm considering Dispel Magic, the caster level would be very good!
On the other hand, if Hal goes invisible, do the tentacles suffer the normal penalties?

Regarding invisibility and grappling, the grappled condition says:

A grappled creature cannot use Stealth to hide from the creature grappling it, even if a special ability, such as hide in plain sight, would normally allow it to do so. If a grappled creature becomes invisible, through a spell or other ability, it gains a +2 circumstance bonus on its CMD to avoid being grappled, but receives no other benefit.

That seems pretty clear. You'd get a little benefit from going invisible -- +2 on your CMD vs grapple, plus nobody else in the room could see to target you with ranged attacks. But it's not a huge boost.

Thanks Mel!
Dispel it is then, I think.

Okay, so a concentration check
(d20+CL+int) DC= (10+CMB+cast spell level).
and then a dispel check
dispel check (1d20 + your caster level) (DC = 11 + the spell's caster level)
Neither of these are ability, skill, save or attack checks, so very few buffs apply. Hero Point should work.
I can't help but feel I'm missing something obvious, but if the mechanics are what is here I'll roll this.

@CMB of the Tentacles - I admit I did peek in the GM Screen, after rolling, because I was certain the information needed would be in there and further actions depended on success or failure of the rolls. But yeah, is that acceptable or would you rather we don't look and ask?

Either way, that is one successfull enemy, having drained 3 Hero Points by now.

Yes this is a boss fight where you guys got to buff up ahead of time. But using hero points BEFORE things are completely desperate smart. I'm fine with you peeking at the GM screen as long as you try not to metagame with that info. Players can look at any spoiler without an "!" as long as they remember to keep IC and OOC knowledge as separate as reasonably possible.

Hal, dispel normally has somatic so you cant normally do it while grappled, despite concentration. Do you have still spell or something else?

I, too, peeked at the GM screen to work out the tentacles CMB. I mainly wanted to know how to narrate my success or failure, but I'll confess that when I saw that +20 I immediately started thinking about spending a hero point on the roll.

Those black tentacles is super-effective here! The DC to get free of them is high enough that we have to roll really high to get loose of them, barring boosts from things like hero points and Liberating Command. And widened means that even with haste, it's hard to get out of the area. Meanwhile, Mel can't shoot, Hal can't cast most of his spells, and Kazador and Fyrtor can't maneuver for position.

I'm really glad we at least got out of the tiny room (mostly) before the black tentacles. Our melee types got into melee, at least, and the tentacles are equally problematic for them.

GM, rules question: the grappled condition says "grappled creatures can take no action that requires two hands to perform." Does that extend to two-handed melee weapons? Like, um, Kazador's hammer?

Fyrtor, if I recall correctly one of our active buffs is Haste, so you should have an extra attack in your full attack sequence. It looks like you only took two in your latest post instead of 3.

No two-handed weapon attacks while grappled, correct. I think Kazador uses a warhammer? That can be used one-handed but I'm not sure what he's doing right now. Kazador, clarify?

I had to reread the grapple rules to remember how they worked. It said you couldn't cast spells with an S component if you were Pinned. From my reading the idea was at grappled you lost one hand, and at pinned you lost two.
That meant he could cast a spell, but not use a rod.
Am I reading it incorrectly?

Hal, you are right. I have always misread this section "The only spells which can be cast while grappling or pinned are those without somatic components and whose material components (if any) you have in hand." I misread "grappling" as "grappled." Oddly, casting while grappled is less restrictive than casting while grappling. Usually, those things have the same mechanical effect. *shakes head*

So you are right, you can apparently cast with somatic components while grappled assuming you make the concentration check. Your spell is fine and you successfully dispel the black tentacles!

Ah yes! You're correct, Kazador uses a warhammer, which can be used either one-handed or two-handed. So he could just switch to smacking people with it one-handed. That would reduce the damage a little, but it's a lot better than not being able to attack with it at all!

@grapple-spells: I think the confusion stems from the original wording for the condition "grappled" being exactly what you put. "The only spells which can be cast while grappling or pinned are those without somatic components and whose material components (if any) you have in hand"
Note that you are considered "grappling" if you have the grappled condition - it does not really matter if you initiate or are the target.
However: The wording for Concentration slightly differs and was stated to be the correcter one, albeit to my knowledge it was never errata'd:
"Casting a spell while you have the grappled or pinned condition is difficult and requires a concentration check (DC 10 + the grappler’s CMB + the level of the spell you’re casting). Pinned creatures can only cast spells that do not have somatic components.

Long story short: I concur, but the source of the confusion here seems to be different definitions in different parts of the rules.

I've said it before and I will say it until I retire and can do it for myself: PF didn't need PF2. It just needed a cleaned up rulebook for PF1. Ban some broken stuff. Clarify and streamline other things. Boom.

Actually I think Kahz uses an earthbreaker, that's why the 2d6 base damage. He does have improved unarmed strike if I remember right though so time 5i start punching people I guess...

I did totally forget about the haste buff. Who applied that again? How long is it active?

Yup, earthbreaker and he can punch people. He can also headbutt people. So there are options. Also I spent my turn trying to break free with CMB. It...did not go well.

Haste was from me, at improved CL, so 11 rounds, the first of which we DD'ed.
We are at around round 4 or 5, so yeah, it's still running.

@Brookside GM: Sweet! Uh, does he know where the mage is, and can he use MM?

Wait, how does Kazador get deific obedience to boost his attack rolls if he doesn't use a warhammer?

Black tentacles are dispelled by Hal, btw. I'll pull the circle off the map to make that clearer.

Hal knows where the mage is. Hmm... he'd still suffer 50% miss chance as far as I can figure. Idk about magic missile. I'll say you can magic missile him.

Sent you a Pm about that ages ago, I think? I recall asking if it would work

@Hal: This round you dispelled, right, so you are asking about next round with the Magic Missiles?
I think the guy is in a tactically disadvantaged position getting mauled by Nelly and having few paths to escape - but his invisibility really helps him right now protecting him against single-target stuff - if you have any means to make him visible that would be great!
(I didn't have a spell slot for Glitterdust today :( )
Just asking if we have options beyond the MM -

Hmm. He can Dispel as standard and close as move, I think? Double cost for going through Mel, AoO from one thug.

Kazador: Yikes it would take an hour to find it in Paizo's horrendous mess of a PM system. I can't recall that conversation but to avoid rebuilding, let's give your memory the benefit of my doubt. Sure, you can keep using deific obedience on an earthbreaker.