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Ok I'll take the total of the three and multiply by 2/3. ;)
Hal: I usually allow retraining for free in terms of money and days if the retraining is to fix a build mistake or miscommunication between and the player. For example, if this party had a ranger that had taken favored enemy (dragons), I'd let them retrain that instantly for free. If the retraining was totally intentional, e.g., "This archetype is weak at low levels and powerful at high levels so I want to retrain into it", I'd require the normal amount of money and some RP of finding a trainer but we're not really using downtime days so I'd skip that part.
Lots happening in this scene. But wife is in hospital and will deliver soon. Won’t get any post up in next day or two, at least not what would do the scene justice. Please bot me
Oh! Congratulations!
Kazador can just be watching the exchange and listening.
Congratulations Kazador!
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Congratulations!
(Also, we've had an illness going round, I thought the worst was behind us but 2 kids relapsed. I'll try and get a post up when I can, but my weekend spare time this time is much less than I'm used to.)
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Congrats, Kazador! Will bot.
I will try to get me post together today. Sorry for the delay.
Level report:
Leveled up in Unchained Rogue, making me a Rogue 9/Warpriest 1.
BAB, Fort and Will all increased by 1. Fractional advancement takes a lot of the sting out of multiclassing.
Mel's Social Sense bonus to initiative increased from +2 to +3.
She gets a new Refined Education skill (adds half her Rogue level to the skill, and gains its skill unlocks as if she had those ranks, basically). This is a tough choice; I'm wavering between Disguise or Knowledge (local).
Disguise would make a lot of sense given all the disguising Mel has been doing in Bannerhold. But the mechanical benefits of the skill unlock are pretty lackluster.
As an anthropologist, Knowledge (local) is pretty much Mel's signature knowledge skill. She has more ranks in it than Disguise, and the +1 competence bonus on attacks against creature types she's identified would be helpful. Practically everything we've ever fought has been some sort of humanoid at base, with a couple of minor exceptions like that giant centipede.
So I'm kind of leaning towards Knowledge (local). But I'd be interested to hear other thoughts.
I got 13 skill points (10 regular, 1 favored class and 2 background) and spent them thus:
- +2 Knowledge (local)
- +2 Perception
- +2 Stealth
- +1 Craft (bows) (background)
- +1 Profession (sailor) (background)
- +1 Heal
- +1 Knowledge (planes)
- +1 Sense Motive
- +1 Diplomacy
- +1 Disable Device, to ease the GM's soul
We get a new background feat this level. I have selected one and run it past the GM, who okayed it. We shall see if it ever comes up. It's pretty strong if it does, but it only applies during a highly specific set of circumstances.
Finally, I have re-enabled the rogue talent I denied myself for the last, um, two levels. Further details forthcoming in a scene the next time Mel sleeps.
I need to get approval from GM on my background feat; I intend to take additional traits again (which I can do because I took the exemplar trait traveler if a hundred lands) an pick up cunning lier; wisdom(Regional trait) and Redeemer (Faith trait).
Cunning liar will let me use wisdom to bluff which be a nice out of combat boost and play nicely with our recent experiences. Also being a regional trait it gets me another class skill from my exemplar trait. I plan to take knowledge planes.
Redeemer will probably never come up, but it fits his character so nicely I'd like to pick it up. It helps with sponsoring evil people who decide to change.
Other notes skills will be fairly straightforward stuff I have aside from throwing a rank or 2 in knowledge planes.
Class level will be druid, which adds 2 really nice improvements, 5th level spells, and swift action studied target.
Hal: I usually allow retraining for free in terms of money and days if the retraining is to fix a build mistake or miscommunication between and the player. For example, if this party had a ranger that had taken favored enemy (dragons), I'd let them retrain that instantly for free. If the retraining was totally intentional, e.g., "This archetype is weak at low levels and powerful at high levels so I want to retrain into it", I'd require the normal amount of money and some RP of finding a trainer but we're not really using downtime days so I'd skip that part.
Hmmm. A bit of both?
Stylized Spontaneity is awesome, but having to make/risk a third roll each time Hal casts a spell turns out to be much more irritating than I thought it would be. I was thinking of just switching it to Stylized Spell. This'll have essentially the same effect, but at the cost of adding metamagic instead of making a risky roll.That said... Background Feats make some things I had thought wouldn't be possible for a long while possible now. Some of these are allowing buying the sort of flavourful (but mechanically poor) feats I normally feel guilty taking.
Catch 1: It also could mean getting to a Prestige Class becomes possible much earlier.
Catch 2: There are some cool feats with irritating pre-reqs.
Should be able to post in gameplay a bit later today.
Thanks for the patience.
Nelly Level-Up(because it's fast enough to do now):
Gets one HD => +10 HP
Gets one Skill Rank => +1 Perception
Gets one Feat => Greater Trip
Fyrtor, I haven't paid close attention to how you're fitting all the traits on but those traits seem fine to me.
I'm glad you all seem to be enjoying the background feats system. It is intended to allow some flavorful/fun options to be a bit more viable.
Level report:
+1 Arcanist(hardly surprising, I know)
BAB +1
Will +1
Skills:
Automatic(Headband)
+1 Perception/Escape Artist/Stealth
Background 2
+1 Handle Animal
+1 Knowledge(Geography)
Regular 7 (2 base + 5 Int)
+1 Knowledge(Nature)
+1 Spellcraft
+1 Knowledge(Arcana)
+4 Linguistics(Terran, Ignan, Aquan, Auran)
+2 Level 5 Spell Slots(+1 from Int)
+1 Level 5 Spell Prepared
+1 Cantrip Prepared
+2 Level 5 Spells known: Hot candidates as mentioned are Icy Prison, Possession and Feeblemind. But not locking any of those in until after coordinating with Hal.
+1 Arcane Reservoir
+1 Daily starting Point in Arcane Reservoir
New Background Feat: I would like to look some more, there. Originally I had planned to pick up Additional Traits at Level 10, but I already got quite some mileage out of the other Background Feats, so I'd rather take another look first and see if something else seems fancy.
@Mel: Even stronger disguise would be fancy, but I concur that the Skill Unlocks for Disguise are among the worst(unless, I suppose, you want to be THAT kind of Vigilante).
Of course, I am not sure WHAT unlocks you already have. You should have 3 already, right? I suspect Heal, maybe Perception and Stealth?
I could also see her take Diplomacy - she is a voice of reason and pretty good at fast-talking or reacting to situations. Being able to change attitude in 1 round rather than 1 minute as per the Unlock could potentially defuse some situations where we wouldn't have a minute to initiate parley.
Otherwise, Sense Motive(albeit that only seems decent later, but could also be reasoned for after this arc).
Or Knowledge(Local), as you said yourself.
My existing skill unlocks are Stealth, Craft (bows), Perception and Heal.
I hadn't really considered Diplomacy, but it does make a good deal of sense for the character. The mechanics are weird though. I would just qualify for the level 10 skill unlock, which would let me add my CHA modifier to the number of hours that a successful Diplomacy check alters the target's attitude. So ... uh, minus one hour. Yeah.
Sentinel 4
HP: 93 + 6 (class) + 4 (con) = 103
BaB: +1
Skills: +2 (Intimidate and Diplomacy)
Saves: Fractionals +0.5 Fort/Will (+1 Fort)
Class: Divine Quickness (+2 initiative)
Background Feat: Skill Focus Perception
@Brookside GM - remember Hal has the "information overload" drawback so feel free to hit him with a false conclusion! I didn't want to make one up in case I accidentally got it right...
Okay, it was a struggle but I have managed to overcome the allure of Prestige Classes.
This is what I have for Hal at the moment
===Background Feats===
Level 2: Extra Traits
Trap Finder (Campaign Trait)
Educated Druggist (Region Trait)
Level 6: Brilliant Planner
Level 10: Read Spell Traces
===Level 9===
HP = +4 = +d6(4)-1+favored
BAB = 4
Saves =3/3/6
Feat = Yuelral’s Blessing.
Skills = 8 ranks + 2 background + 1 perception + 1 linguistics
Spells = +1 5th level spell/day (+2 with int)
Spells known = +2
===Level 10===
HP = +4 = +d6(4)-1+favored
BAB =5
Saves =3/3/7
Class = Bonus Feat: Alchemical Affinity Arcane Discovery
Skills = 8 ranks + 2 background + 1 perception + 1 linguistics
Spells = +1 4th, +1 5th level spell/day
Spells known = +2
===Skills changed===
Bluff to 28
Disguise to 7
Disable Device to 14 (18 with trait)
K (local) to 21
K (nature) to 18
K (nobility) to 13
Linguistics to 23 (+2 languages)
Perception to 11
Spellcraft to 23
Stealth to 10
At last. At last! I can finally reclaim that rogue talent!
No, Mel is not planning on taking levels in Medium or channeling spirits. Like her journal entry said, she's found another way to get at that knowledge.
Specifically, her Phantom Thief archetype allows her to take Vigilante social talents as if they were rogue talents. She has now taken the talent Ancestral Enlightenment. It gives her a +4 bonus on any Knowledge skill she's trained in, i.e. all of them. I am flavoring it as listening in on snippets of the past. Ears of the City was a trigger for the ability.
Holy cow it took a long time to build up to that. I didn't want Mel to just wake up one morning and yell "Hey, I can hear ghosts now!" I wanted a gradual build-up to it. Originally I was planning on involving Brolin in that, but then he vanished into the ether much like one of his spirits before I could really get started. So I'm glad Hal came along and was able to jump in and talk about that on the Clydesdale. Thanks, Hal.
EDIT: Oh, and I settled on Diplomacy for my new signature skill. It's kind of a weird choice mechanically in light of Mel's -1 Charisma modifier. But it makes a lot of sense in terms of her RP.
I got 3 kids being ill in a circle :P we're on the second round now and it's not fun. Apologies for being missing a bit, the nights are short and it's draining - ...
@Hal: Pushing into niche's? Nevermind :) I got a full caster Main, a Melee Best Bestie, and a Social Butterfly Guardian Spirit. There's very few niches I'm not crawling into - just trying not to step on anybodies toes.
I see you have +2 spells known twice, but none listed :) I do think we should coordinate on that - a bit? I was not in a hurry as initially I will prepare SM V in the one slot, to get Fennith in her new better version.
(Also, I am still missing the Background Feat, I got a few pre-selected but I'll try and narrow that down further, then run in by GM via PM.)
@Mel: Nice - we're really rocking the Knowledge-Stuff now :D
Also nice to see you picked up Diplomacy - not only is it very flavorful, next level you will also be able to gather information very swiftly, which also totally seems in-character. so...yay.
@Mel: Nice! I really like Hal getting to hard sell you on being a "Wierdo (TM)" - I think we both got to being a bunch of stuff into the tory. Speaking of story - I was blown away by your story and am trying to find a way to bring stuff in.
Hmmm - I *nearly* got Idealize, but figured everyone had the appropiate atts high. It could be used (with some 2nd level slots) to give everyone more competence at niche situations... though it would last at most half an hour (and more likely 10 mins). I could be convinced to change pretty easy if people have a use for their "less priortised" stats being bumped. If giving Mel a +6 (or even +4) enhancement to charisma is really worthwhile...
@Turion: sick kids are the worst :(
Absolutely I want to coordinate spells. I'm also interested in buying (with gold) spellbooks though. If I can't get one of the spells I'm looking for at a lower level, I'm prepared to use the 5th level 'free' spell to pick it up.
It occurs to me if I do buy a spellbook maybe T & H can go halvies? Spellcraft roll to prep from someone else's book is a pain, but not impossible.
RE niches
I did a bot of research (read the whole PbP for example) trying to work out niches and it drove me crazy, but it is one reason I've tried to steer clear of combat magic and compulsions up to now. I have to keep looking away from Subtle Enchantments.
In the end I went for 'flexible caster' and 'traps' above all with Hal. I'm relying on Turion for the 'straight' combat magic, Mel for healing, and Fyrtor for the archetypal druid role.
@Spellbooks: Hence why I wondered if the mighty Caster in the basement happened to have some books with him :)
@Lower-Level Spells, I think we might get some mileage out of the improved False Life, if you are considering that.
That said, I do like to have the spells in my book, also because I can hot-swap them for a point from my reservoir. We did get some gold now, but I figure much of that will be going towards writing/copying spells.
@Niches: By all means, 'invade' in my niche all you want :) I'm trying to do control, but there's lots of combat magic from blasting over summoning to more control or debuffing that totally makes sense.
Heck, Fennith is socially a total unit, but in combat, she is a proxy that can do some support and buff/debuffing. (I figure the combat contribution from Nelly and Túrion are sufficient, she was not built for that - so by all means, she should not count as a "combat summon" even if I will often try to get her to join if it seems feasable.).
The only 'niche' really is compulsions and direct mind-magic/mindfuggery, but even then as a player I would not mind.
But with the way Harold does everything quite secretive by nature, seeing him use powerful compulsions would probably be a bit of a red flag for Túrion unless he could reliably notice them - as he is fully aware of their power.
(as said, IC - and thats got nothing to do with Hal being Hal, anybody who could screw with his mind without Túrion even noticing would be under scrutiny.)
@Hal - thanks! I've worked hard at this character, and yeah, she is a complete weirdo. Sometimes I like to play "guess the class" with people and tell them about all the things Mel can do. So far no one has guessed Rogue or Warpriest.
I'm a bit curious about Fennith out of character. Cry of Mercy is not a standard ability for an Anhana. Is she a cohort you're summoning with Summon Monster for flavor? A minor variant on the stat block? Something else?
If there are still secrets there that's cool, you don't need to tell me anything.
Icy Prison, Possession and Feeblemind
@Turion: Of these...
Possession: A really dodgy mind control that uses necromancy instead of compulsion? Can't be Sudden Spelled spontaneously? Sign me up! Despite the fact Possesion is MUCH cleaner, I think Magic Jar actually fits the magic tradition that Hal tends to use slightly better though. Mage's Crawlspace into a grave, and then possess nearby people... though I guess you could do that with possession.Feeblemind: Compulsion. All yours.
Icy Prison: This is a great spell. I love it has an effect EVEN IF they save... but useful as it is it doesn't seem to fit Hal's magic tradition. Happy for you to have it.
The themes are based on folk magic (primarily english, but including most english-derived, and possible branching out to english-influenced and norse)
---
@Brookside GM: Interesting point here. Can I confirm my understanding that the Basement Magus didn't have a spellbook on him. If he had one, and it was part of the loot pool I'd be potentially interested in buying it out. After all, these are spells the Reaps obviously use, which makes them useful from a counterspelling perspective if nothing else. And 'stolen magic' sort of meets Hal's themes.
...Which reminds me
@Mel: I use your Pathfinder Spell Facets site a ton. Hal is full of "1 CL if class X" and "spontaneously cast as Y". The site is really helpful! Thanks :)
@Mage's crawlspace: By my understanding, it needs a sufficiently large stone to contain a 5-foot sphere?
Not sure how you used it in the garden but I think it may not be applicable in many spots to use with Magic Jar - which also has the trouble of only allowing you to target effectively random - you may end up trying to jump into Kaz or something - in most cases possession seems more desirable - albeit the Greater Version would be even better.
@Spells: Picking up Icy Prison and Feeblemind then for my level up spells.
@Mel/Fennith: She is a Guardian Spirit as per my last levels Feat Summon Guardian Spirit. While technically an Anhana is not listed as possible Improved Familiar, I've run her by GM and she's well within the base power level(compared with Hellfire Ignis or Ratling) - that and she has no special attacks that would scale with the Template.
My alternative was to go with a small Aether Elemental(that would fully qualify) for utility - in that case it would have been connected with the Archmage-Fight in the Dwarven Hold - but Fennith was way more flavorful, and I like the '2 Souls as 1"-approach having a Fey Twin Sister provides. (That, and that the Elemental would mostly have added direct Combat Potential and some Utility, while she provides social competence and Buffing/Debuffing which means a more flexible spectrum of abilities together with Nelly.).
She also gets to wield the Fate's (Gardening) Shears Túrion claimed WAY back in the campaign. She picked up Cry of Mercy with her HD progression, and she also gets some SLA's in addition(like the invisibility). (Plus I picked up Feats to add additional options - she's newly got Flickering Step and already had a reflavored Draconic Heritage(Esoteric))
Damnit, you're right. I normally have a good eye for this sort of thing. Somehow I remembered it such that earth/clay counted for stone.
Hmmm.
Alright, if there is bedrock reasonably close to the surface he could dig down to it - I think he just has to touch it.
It's a fourth level slot, so he could memorise minor creation. If he burns the rest of his stuff he can get that to CL 15. That's fifteen cubic feet. Could probably use that to create a sort of coffin-thing underground... though minor creation just says it creates an 'unattended item', so I don't know if that can essentially be a tiny building.
Otherwise he'll need to go somewhere that there IS stone. I'm guessing there is somewhere relatively nearby if we're in medieval level technology - though magic may have changed that. Happy to say he uses 'vanish' to do a show for potential watchers, then runs off.
The mage's spellbook, which you could read before selling. Easier to paste in this weird format:
Prepared: 8th—mind blank
7th—greater scrying (DC 24), limited wish, spell turning
6th—widened black tentacles, disintegrate (DC 23), greater dispel magic, repulsion (DC 23)
5th—dismissal (DC 22), feeblemind (DC 22), overland flight, teleport, wall of stone
4th—extended black tentacles, confusion (DC 21), dimension door, greater invisibility, phantasmal killer (DC 21)
3rd—clairaudience/clairvoyance, dispel magic, halt undead (DC 20), slow (DC 20), extended stinking cloud, suggestion (DC 20)
2nd—detect thoughts (DC 19), extended glitterdust, protection from arrows, resist energy, scorching ray, whispering wind
1st—charm person (DC 18), comprehend languages, disguise self, extended mage armor, magic missile, protection from evil
In spellbook: all 0-level spells and all prepared spells as well as the following: 8th—mass charm monster; 7th—simulacrum, summon monster VII; 6th—acid fog, veil, wall of iron; 5th—contact other plane; 4th—solid fog; 1st—burning hands, feather fall, grease, shield
But you should know, Hal, that mage was pulled from the bestiary so he's not fully statted out with Reaper flavor. My home-made NPCs are much more optimized than those from the bestiary but accordingly lower level. I wouldn't optimize a caster that high for the current party. No siree.
Kazador still remembers when he got disarmed with a quickened true strike from a homemade halforc magus. It's just too much work to build them myself all the time.
<shudders>
How did he have extended Mage Armor prepped in a first level slot? That's a neat trick. I mean, largely irrelevant -- at that level a regular mage armor would last for 15 hours, which is officially "Duration: long enough". But still.
I'm really glad he didn't hit us with Confusion while we were packed into that tiny little room. That could have gone badly. I'm pretty sure a confused Kazador could kill anyone in the party with one good full attack.
While I'm thinking of it, rules question for the GM: Mel has these fancy gloves that let her do Healer's Hands as a swift action instead of a full round action. If she happened to be adjacent to two people who needed healing, could she use a swift action on one, and then spend a full-round action on the other? There's no per-round limit built into the feat because they weren't anticipating anyone doing it faster than a full round.
That is terrifying. To the mage's credit it was looking pretty bad just from the three spells he cast. Opening with greater invisibility definitely kept him alive longer, and let him avoid AoOs... and he didn't know what we were (except willing to attack a Reaps hideout). I'm guessing he'd normally follow it up with Mind Blank, except his real problems weren't using magic to detect him.
I was thinking it might help to know what to protect from - but that's a fairly broad list. Greater Scrying and Contact Other Plane are avoidable, at least.
At least if this mage comes after us we might be able to hide.
Hmmm - he has simacrulum. If that had been a simacrulum, would it have detected as such?
I'm pretty sure that simulacra dissolve into a pile of slush when you kill them. They're made of snow, after all.
EDIT: Oh, and I'm grateful that mage didn't have quickened spell. That would have made him a lot more dangerous than he already was.
Hm. Aside from the fact that that potentially has some rather scary options available, there's also some stuff that we specifically talked about.
Like Feeblemind and Teleport.
Veil also might be of interest to Hal once Level 6 becomes available.
As are SM VII and Confusion for Túrion.
Before we sell it, we might want to take a moment to try and copy a few spells - it's not like we would go try to cash stuff in right after the battle, before settling down - plus we wouldn't want to sell it to someone aligned with the reaps that helps spring the mage from prison and hands it right back to him.
Also, do we KNOW what they are going to do with them after the initial interrogation? I mean, this dude seems like a prime candidate to hit with Feeblemind after he's done talking. Let him find some new career as prison gardener or something.
(Even though morally I am not a huge fan of magical lobotomy, I already got elven master casters breathing down my neck for wearing the favorite stuff of their buddy. Wouldn't want to add more mighty casters to that list.)
@Mel: sure, but we didn't kill him. Although, now you mention it, I don't believe Simacrula can hit negative hp.
RE Spellbook
Heck yeah, copying for the win if possible... I did ask so I'd know what he had though. Not sure if we're allowed to copy? And can we copy a spell we're not high enough level to cast? I can't actually find anything against it.
Okay, so ignoring cantrips, as a reconstructed spellbook this would be worth about... uh, 9230gp? The sale price might be 4615gp. That's expensive. Including cantrips and book cost it'd be 9335gp, and 4667gp 5sp sale price. Too expensive for me!
If we're prepared to uh, 'partition' the book (with a scalpel), go halvies, or we're allowed to scribe, then I'm in!
TANGENT: should Hal get Quicken spell as his 10th level wizard feat instead? I did think about it, but I'm not used to playing at this level.
@Túrion: yeah, feeblemind seems like a plan. Even then, he could have a Simacrulum out there looking for vengeance or rescue already... Plus, we need to wrap this book in lead or something.
TANGENT 2: @Mel (and others) if we're going to have a ship, we need to stop the Reaps just tracking or scry/dieing it. I had a look at spells, and there are 2 5th level spells that can help. Nex's secret workshop (which will cost a fortune in ingredients) or Mage's Private Sanctum. MPS seems like it might be the way to go if the area can move, and Hal can both get and cast either, but I want to know this is a thing. I don't want to spend a 5th level slot if the whole thing is a distraction or long term retirement plan.
Quicken Spell makes for much better action economy. Some common uses for it include:
- Getting buff spells in place when you didn't have an opportunity to buff before a fight. Round 1 can be something offensive and Quickened Shield, for example.
- Adding extra damage. I once downed a PC who survived a Disintegrate spell with a Quickened Magic Missile. And when I played through Kingmaker, I finally downed the BBEG of Book 6 with a Fireball followed by a Quickened Fireball.
- One-two combos. For example, Kazador had quite a scare in Kazad Gravr when those absurdly cheesy orc magi used Quickened True Strike + Pilfering Hand to take his hammer away in one round. That hammer is pretty central to his build, and losing it immediately put him in a really, really bad position. I used the same trick once in a level 20 one-shot, effectively nerfing an Arcane Archer by stealing his bow. There are undoubtedly other good combos out there, but Quickened True Strike + anything you really don't want to miss with is a strong one.
That said, the down side is that it eats up higher-level spell slots, and at this level you don't have a great many of those. Which is more useful: a Quickened Shield or a Teleport spell? They both take up a fifth-level spell slot. If you've only got two fifth-level spell slots, that might not be worth it. If you've got 8th-level spells to sling around, it might well be.
Personally, I think the sweet spot for picking up Quicken Spell is around the time you get sixth-level spells. At that point you can begin to afford to sacrifice some fifth-levels for improved action economy. It only gets better from there.
Just to add another combo: Quickened Ill Omen with anything persistent spell is nasty.
By the time you can quicken it, it affects an additional roll, and the way persistant is worded, if you make the save, you have to roll another one and use that if its worse.(That is, you don't roll twice and use the worse roll) - that means they stack.
So you roll twice and use the worse roll - if you succeed, you have to roll again...twice, and use the worse roll. So effectively "roll the save 4 times and use the worst roll you made." Really helps disables stick.
Just a bit of a hazzle getting access to Ill Omen.
(Did I mention Fennith has it as a 1/day SLA? And I got a Rod of Persistant Spell?)
But I concur with Mel, around Level 6 spells seems the sweet spot for Quicken for prepared casters.
Spontaneous might decide to pick it up for Level 5 already.
@Spellbook: I'm already in a bit of debt, I'm afraid. (I miscalculated something by about 200 gold and ended up without spending money) - that said, aside from the actual cost of the spellbook we'd also need money to copy the spells within. I am quite willing to contribute financially, but there's the question if it should come directly out of our 'share' of the treasure, or be removed from the pool beforehand.
(I mean, theoretically, we are spending both time and resources to copy the spells, which is the actual means of acquiring additional options, from scrolls or hostile spell books - after we are done doing that, the spell book could STILL be sold, it's not like we get the spells for free. I mean, even just copying Feeblemind, SM VII and Confusion would cost 900 gold for scribing alone.
Mel's question: Yes you can swift action heal and FRA heal in the same round. I see 0 reason why that wouldn't work.
"absurdly cheesy": Thank you! They had traits and everything! But there was also in the IC reason of these being the very orcs that took Kazad Gravr and had to be prepared to deal with a bunch of rune wardens like Kazador.
Quicken spell fun: Lots of fun to be had there but I like the cheaper and more fun version, familiar spell. As long as you can meet all the requirements, which is a little tricky, it's really, really good. Your familiar may well have a better ranged touch attack than you anyway.
There are also lots of other cheesy things to stack on quicken or familiar spell, if allowed. Wayang spellhunter+magical lineage is crazy if they're allowed to stack. Sacred geometry is nuts. Etc, etc.
The ominous wording in the game play post is hopefully not foreshadowing.
Familiar spell is nice - but that +3 levels is a killer when your highest level spell slot is 3rd! I did consider it - but Hal has to jump through too many Feat-hoops to get one.
I do love the traits like Magical Lineage though. Admittedly I am biased towards things that make cool abilities available earlier. I seriously considered asking for Magical lineage with a spell like Endure Elements or Floating Disk as a background feat\trait... and then buying Ascendent Spell. Sadly, the mythic spells are nowhere near worth +5 levels.
Tangent: Is sacred geometry allowed? I thought everyone basically banned it.
Alright, so I'll hold off on Quicken then, thanks :)
Given how well everyone is optimising I'm feeling a bit guilty about some of my choices. I'll try to keep up.
I've got one potential trick; One spell I want to try to get is Full Pouch. I wanted it because that way Hal, who is an alchemist, could use alchemy items without going broke. When I looked at the spell, though, I noted it ups the save. Due to circumstances, I think it ups it to DC 22 for Hal. A DC 22 Cytillesh Stun Vial seems like it might be a decent attack of course, but even Sneezing Powder isn't too bad when the save gets that high.
As Alchemy, spell resistance won't apply - though Poison Resistance will for most.
Good explanation for the Orcs of Kazad Gravr. It makes sense that if an enemy relies on a single tactic that never changes that an enemy would eventually specialize against it.
——
I usually don’t play casters. But…would this work?
Class: Warpriest
Fervor: “ As a swift action, a warpriest can expend one use of this ability to cast any one warpriest spell he has prepared with a casting time of 1 round or shorter. When cast in this way, the spell can target only the warpriest, even if it could normally affect other or multiple targets. Spells cast in this way ignore somatic components and do not provoke attacks of opportunity. The warpriest does not need to have a free hand to cast a spell in this way.”
Two-World Magic
“Benefit: Select one 0-level spell from a class spell list other than your own. This spell is a 0-level spell on your class spell list”
So if someone chose true strike, would that trait make it a warpriest spell, as it becomes a spell on his class spell list? Because if so that is 1 trait and 2 levels to get quicken spell. It seems like a really good use for the ability.
No. Two-World Magic lets you pick up a zero-level spell from another spell list. But True Strike is a first-level spell for every class that can cast it.
So the particular combo you suggest doesn't work; you would need some other way to get True Strike onto your Warpriest spell list. Which is probably possible, though I don't have a spare moment to go research it right now.
Sacred Geometry is banned for a good reason. Especially in PbP. It's completely unhinged.
@Two-World Magic - what Melia said. It's only for Cantrips.
@Optimising: I may be guilty a bit there, but don't you feel guilty about any choices. Flavor trumps power any day, in my book.
Agreed, Sacred Geometry is flat-out bad design. I do not allow it when I'm running, because it's just dumb.
If you make the player do the math manually, then everyone else winds up twiddling their thumbs and getting bored while they sit there waiting for the caster to make the numbers add up. And this is likely to happen every time the caster casts a spell.
If you let them use one of the sacred geometry calculators that instantly popped up on the web, then sacred geometry lets the caster apply two or more metamagic effects to any spell they cast, spontaneously, and at essentially zero cost. That is a huge power boost.
As for optimization, I don't think Mel is particularly optimized. Her primary offensive tactic is archery. Using Deadly Aim and no particular buffs she has +12/+7 to hit for 2d6+7+1d6 nonlethal damage (average 17.5). I don't know if you're familiar with Bench Pressing: Character Creation By the Numbers, but it's a method for quantifying how well your PC stacks up. If you compare Mel's archery stats against the level 10 entry in the bench pressing chart she does not fare well. It suggests +22 to hit would be optimal, +17 would be good, and +13 is passable, meaning her +12 to hit is poor. This is, of course, a common problem with a medium BAB character: their combat prowess quickly lags behind full-BAB colleagues. Traditional rogues tend to make up for that with sneak attack (which gives you a big burst of damage when you can pull it off); but of course Mel's archetype eliminated sneak attack. So her damage output is pretty minimal. And all non-lethal at that! If she turned off merciful on her bow, she would actually lose 1d6 damage on each hit. But at the same time, non-lethal does absolutely nothing to large classes of enemies (undead, constructs), which happily we have not seen in this campaign.
Her AC (24 normally) matches the lowest suggested value for a level 10 PC. Her saves (+10, +12, +9 with +2 vs enchantments) are better; the chart suggests +8 as a minimum, which she easily exceeds on all counts. That was, largely, the mechanical point of the warpriest dip (plus Iron Will): boosting her saves, because previously her Fortitude and Will saves were truly abysmal.
So offensively Mel is pretty lackluster. Defensively she's passable.
I am okay with this. Mel was never designed to be an unstoppable death machine with untouchable AC and saves. She makes up for her rather shaky combat prowess by being an excellent healer and scout, with solid knowledge skills across the board.
Sacred geometry is completely banned at my table as well. Don't worry, Hal.
Storywise, Mel isn't very optimized because she started out only with NPC levels. Her flavor was very committed to that and always has been.
Thanks all - I feel better now :)
The table is interesting. I have a pretty intuitive feel for the levels I've played a lot, but it's nice to have benchmarks!
I'm going to have to process the document though - too early in the morning for me to really understand it now!
@PCs: Can I check again what the deal is with the ship? Do we need a way to cloak it?
@Brookside GM: In general how hard it is to track down spells for copying, please? There's a few Hal would like to track down.
Aye. The most important thing is to have fun. As said, I am admittedly quite optimized, but I do try to not fall behind too far on the flavor stuff.
Was Cry of Mercy necessary? Nope, probably not, I don't think we got bonus intelligence from the additional prisoners, and we could have made sure to save one or two regardless.
But it seemed a great fit for multiple members of the party - Mel, who does non-lethal damage by default - Hal, who is hoping not to have to kill(or probably to minimize the killing needed), Fyrtor, who would prefer redemption over killing.
Kazador is a seasoned defender who lost his home to invaders and is probably beyond staying his hand to avoid killing - and Túrion sees it very pragmatic - killing is part of nature, and not just as part of feeding. Heck, plants effectively wage war against each other. He personally avoids it where possible but won't lose sleep over dead enemies.
But he does not exist in a vacuum, and is very much aware of his companions preferences, so tries to accomodate them - to the point of asking Fennith to provide help doing so.
And Nelly has proven her worth over and over. She is good at what she does, loyal, and lucky, too. But of course, she is exclusively melee, and I strongly believe would refuse to make use of certain abilities(say, fly) unless very specific circumstances exist. That kind of makes her a two-trick ponywolf, but that's entirely valid because she's technically a class feature - (that sounds wrong writing it, but what I mean is that a player character focusing on one trick would not be flexible enough - a cohort, animal companion, eidolon etc. on the other hand, can do that).
Túrion himself is...optimzied yet squishy. I do have a fail-safe in the minor regeneration, but still abysmal AC and HP. Of course, there are defensive mechanisms in form of spells, but generally he was built as the control equivalent of a glass cannon. Make sure spells get out, try to survive and avoid retaliation, get more spells out. But he's another component that is deliberately created with flaws, as part of a larger whole.
What I'm trying to ramble about: I love the flavor stuff - it's on top of things. Optimization is second to that. Could I have picked even stronger options? Yes, without doubt. Could others be more optimized? Sure, they could, but there's no reason to. And nobody should ever feel compelled to make a stronger choice over a more flavorful one "for the team".
Oh yes, that Bench Pressing blog is a heavy read. There's an automated EDV calculator sheet that you could use too, though you have to make your own copy first. Change the level on the first line and enter the details of your weapons/attacks below. It's handy for the weapon side of things, though not so much for the defensive side. In that case just eyeball your AC/saves against the chart I linked above.
As for the ship, on a meta level I have no strong feelings about anti-scrying measures to protect it. I have no idea if we're even going to wind up using that ship again. If we do, it might be interesting to get caught that way.
But it sounds like Hal, the PC, is pretty invested in being secretive and not getting caught. And Mel strongly believes in not getting noticed (hence her massive investment in Stealth), so she would be all in favor of such a project.
Finding spells: Interesting question. Unless a formula for this already exists, I'll say that a city the size of bannerhold has a 95%-10%*spell level chance of having that spell readily available to be copied.
I don't think I know of any explicit mechanics for determining the availability of spells for purchase, exactly.
The Settlements rule from the game mastery guide has rules for determining the highest level spellcasting available for hire. And it has mechanics for randomly determining the availability of magic items. And there are about a billion tables for randomly generating scrolls. But I don't know of any for whether or not a particular spell is available for purchase in a given city.
Well, the spellcasting service for HIRE seems to assume that you can reliably find most spells of that level in a city of that size.
And copying spells from other books states that the owner of the original spellbook usually takes a certain fee for the right to copy from them.
As such, it can be reasoned that if there are spellcasters of a certain level in a locale, they will have most spells available between them and may or may not be inclined to let travellers copy from them.
In that case, it might simply be a matter of convincing someone/paying for it. Of course, it's possible to simply try and track down a scroll - there's people making a living out of scribing scrolls, after all - which could be an alternative if the city does not provide high enough level spellcasting, or nobody is inclined to allow copying.
I'm cool to go straight for the Viscount - assuming there's enough time for breakfast and some spell memorisation.
So; there's a couple of spells I'm interested in, and some are "If I can't find X try Y" - would it look like this?
Fearsome Duplicate(3)
Coin Shot(1)
Draconic Ally(3)
Full Pouch(2)
False Life, Greater(4)
Deathless(4)
Innocuous Shape(4)
Ablative Barrier(3)
Clay Skin(3)
Edit: So Fearsome Duplicate, Coin Shot, Draconic Ally, Greater False Life, Deathless and Clay Skin might be available. Full Pouch, Innocuous Shape and Ablative Barrier are not. Right?
@Brookside GM: If you want to change your mind, or roll yourself or something, I'm good with that. This is more for planning purposes.