Paizo Should Fix The Kingdom Rules


Kingmaker Second Edition

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I appreciate the many GM's fixes to the kingdom rules. I've looked at a number of online suggestions. Still a couple months from reaching this part of of module with my group.

Would be nice if Paizo would fix this faulty part of the module and release on pdf.

Would also like additional sample troops fir warfare system. Trolls, undead cyclops, lizardfolk, fey, swordlords. In case war breaks out during other parts of storyline

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Paizo isn't going to devote any more time to Kingmaker unfortunately.

They simply don't do errata or updates on adventures, and I'm glad they don't as doing so would come at the expense of other adventures or books.

I'm simply glad we got 2e Kingmaker at all.


My understanding from the update to their errata policy was that it was no longer tied to reprints. I had assumed that meant the APs would be getting errata as well, especially with the kingdom rules untested. Is that not the case?

If so, it makes purchasing APs a much less attractive option.

Silver Crusade

Down Comforter wrote:
My understanding from the update to their errata policy was that it was no longer tied to reprints. I had assumed that meant the APs would be getting errata as well, especially with the kingdom rules untested. Is that not the case?

They have made no statement they won't work on/errata Kingmaker or other APs, and in fact they have done errata and updates for previous APs.

The previous poster is making things up.


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Why are you certain they're making things up?

https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43pea?Rules-on-granting-Kingdom-XP-from-events #20

Quote:

It's not "official errata" until it gets posted as such and/or is reprinted, but it's the original intent I had for the system, and I'm the lead developer for the project, so I guess take that for what it's worth? ;-)

Clarifications here on posts like this on these boards are not considered "Official Errata" because they quickly get lost and aren't catalogued, but if/when we publish errata for Kingmaker, this'll be something I push for. But to manage expectations... we've NEVER published "official errata" for an adventure.

Silver Crusade

IcedMik wrote:

Why are you certain they're making things up?

https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43pea?Rules-on-granting-Kingdom-XP-from-events #20

Quote:

It's not "official errata" until it gets posted as such and/or is reprinted, but it's the original intent I had for the system, and I'm the lead developer for the project, so I guess take that for what it's worth? ;-)

Clarifications here on posts like this on these boards are not considered "Official Errata" because they quickly get lost and aren't catalogued, but if/when we publish errata for Kingmaker, this'll be something I push for. But to manage expectations... we've NEVER published "official errata" for an adventure.

Never published it as a standalone thing but they have done errata for Adventures, both official (Abomination Vaults HC coincided with them putting out errata for it) and "unofficial", and player options introduced in APs usually get reprinted and updated as well.

I was contesting the claim "They simply don't do errata or updates on adventures," which is false.

Sovereign Court

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I wasn't aware they ever had actually updated APs. I'm happy to hear otherwise.

That said it's still highly unlikely they'll do anything further for Kingmaker itself based on some of James Jacob's statements.

I'd love it if they did.

I'm hoping that Legendary Game's plugin for the 2e Kingdom Building rules fixes a lot of things.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Rysky wrote:
Never published it as a standalone thing but they have done errata for Adventures, both official (Abomination Vaults HC coincided with them putting out errata for it) and "unofficial", and player options introduced in APs usually get reprinted and updated as well.

Do we know if they would have spent the time to errata Abomination Vaults if they hadn't been doing a HC though?

Has there been any Adventure errata for any APs that were not collected in HC?

They do collect and sometime update rules from APs, but I don't think we'll see any official updates to the Kingdom Building Rules anytime soon.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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We would not have spent the time to errata Abomination Vaults if we didn't do a Hardcover.

I understand and empathize with folks who hope for a kingdom rules errata for Kingmaker, but at this time, that'd take a lot of my time and at least one person from the design team and one person from the editing team to go in and work on, and at this point, we have to be realistic about our resources—at the moment, we don't have enough to devote those three (minimum) folks to errata for any adventure, including Kingmaker, because we're pretty slammed on getting in-process projects out the door. (Speaking from the narrative team, we're STILL scrambling to get caught up again after essentially having the ENTIRE print adventure development team staff do a full turnover in terms of employees last year, when for many months it was pretty much just me keeping all those plates spinning for Gatewalkers, Stolen Fate, Crown of the Kobold King, Rusthenge, and the upcoming ones beyond those, with Adam Daigle multitasking from manager duties to help when the time allowed.)

Just trying to manage expectations and all, and I'm sorry for those out there who would like official errata for the kingdom rules. I feel like the feedback from other GMs and their suggestions are an excellent solution in the meantime, but I understand that for some people it's not the same.

I'll keep now and then suggesting/mentioning the possibility of a Kingdom Rules errata, but don't expect anything on that front anytime soon. Thank you for your understanding and patience.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Thanks for weighing in James!

I appreciate all the effort you put in to get us Kingmaker 2e in the first place!


VanceMadrox wrote:
I'm hoping that Legendary Game's plugin for the 2e Kingdom Building rules fixes a lot of things.

If someone in the know could post a direct URL for this future product (so that I can more properly track this item), I'd be grateful! ;-)

Thanks,
Franklin

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I don't think they have a product page up for it yet. It was done as part of their Faerie kickstarter but they said it'd be a while.

Horizon Hunters

Is there a homebrew fix for Kingdom Rules that most people recommend, or does it depend on the type of group?


FWCain wrote:
VanceMadrox wrote:
I'm hoping that Legendary Game's plugin for the 2e Kingdom Building rules fixes a lot of things.

If someone in the know could post a direct URL for this future product (so that I can more properly track this item), I'd be grateful! ;-)

Thanks,
Franklin

Checked page today couldn't find it.

So also interested if anyone finds url on this


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Michael Hebert 10 wrote:
FWCain wrote:
VanceMadrox wrote:
I'm hoping that Legendary Game's plugin for the 2e Kingdom Building rules fixes a lot of things.

If someone in the know could post a direct URL for this future product (so that I can more properly track this item), I'd be grateful! ;-)

Thanks,
Franklin

Checked page today couldn't find it.

So also interested if anyone finds url on this

This is the kickstarter. Any news about the release date will probably be posted there:

Kickstarter Link

You can find the Ultimate Rulership listing on that page. It's way down near the bottom. I missed the kickstarter window, so I preordered on backerkit. You still can preorder there.:

Backerkit Link

I messaged them through backerkit a week ago regarding the release date (a comment they left on kickstarter mentioned that they thought it'd be finished late April), and they send back the following email:

---------

Still working on it. April was largely swallowed up with a lot of tax and
corporate paperwork so I didn't get as much writing time as I had hoped.
Right now, layout is working on Faerie Campaigns PF2, but Ultimate
Rulership PF2 will be the next book in the queue for them, so I should have
it turned over to them within the next couple weeks.

---------

I've got my fingers crossed that it'll be out soon!


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Warning I ordered from the above links. It is pathfinder 1st edition. They sent zoom link i opened it and it is for 1st edition.


Michael Hebert 10 wrote:

Warning I ordered from the above links. It is pathfinder 1st edition. They sent zoom link i opened it and it is for 1st edition.

The company is working with me to get 2e version when available so a 2e version should be out soon


Michael Hebert 10 wrote:
Michael Hebert 10 wrote:

Warning I ordered from the above links. It is pathfinder 1st edition. They sent zoom link i opened it and it is for 1st edition.

The company is working with me to get 2e version when available so a 2e version should be out soon

The links above have content for 1e, 2e, and D&D 5e. Ultimate Rulership is the only relevant book for Kingmaker 2e afaik. I don't think Ultimate Kingdoms or the kingdom event cards are compatible with Kingmaker 2e at all.


An update on Ultimate Rulership (PF2E) from the Kickstarter page - it looks like it will hopefully be done soon:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/legendarygames/ultimate-faeries-fey-mo nsters-and-campaigns-for-dnd-5e-and-pf/posts/3859545


That link doesn't work


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Sorn wrote:

An update on Ultimate Rulership (PF2E) from the Kickstarter page - it looks like it will hopefully be done soon:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/legendarygames/ultimate-faeries-fey-mo nsters-and-campaigns-for-dnd-5e-and-pf/posts/3859545

Linkified


Dancing Wind wrote:
Sorn wrote:

An update on Ultimate Rulership (PF2E) from the Kickstarter page - it looks like it will hopefully be done soon:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/legendarygames/ultimate-faeries-fey-mo nsters-and-campaigns-for-dnd-5e-and-pf/posts/3859545

Linkified

How is this different from the rules in the Kingmaker book?


I would think that they will have their own take and will fix the problems at hand, or so I hope anyways.

I am running 2 groups, one is a bit far from this but the other one has over half of the Greenbelt explored so I might need this ASAP myself for that group.

Their other book just before was pretty good!!

Tom

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

From the little we know so far it's looking like it'll expand on the base rules but not fix them. Once we have the PDFs we'll know more.

My own party just killed the Stag Lord and will be founding their Kingdom soon.

Next session will be Politicking and Venture capital in Rostland followed by hex crawling with a big caravan and a few fights.


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Well if thats the case then I think sales will go very poorly for this, I really hope your wrong, and I actually shocked there is nothing on Infinite yet.

Tom

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

dancave wrote:
Michael Hebert 10 wrote:
Michael Hebert 10 wrote:

Warning I ordered from the above links. It is pathfinder 1st edition. They sent zoom link i opened it and it is for 1st edition.

The company is working with me to get 2e version when available so a 2e version should be out soon
The links above have content for 1e, 2e, and D&D 5e. Ultimate Rulership is the only relevant book for Kingmaker 2e afaik. I don't think Ultimate Kingdoms or the kingdom event cards are compatible with Kingmaker 2e at all.

That is correct. Ultimate Kingdoms is available for PF1 and 5E and represents a BUNCH of products all gone together.

Ultimate Rulership for PF2 is the first (but not the last) expansion for PF2 kingdom rules. There are additional supplements planned and in various states of development for settlements (getting close) and mass combat (coming later).

We've had a lot on our plates getting the other books from that KS up and out the door, and we're looking forward to getting this book series up and rolling. Better to release them sequentially than try to just sit on the pile until every last thing is done.


Thanks Jason so can you say if this first supliment fix the Kingdom rules for Kingmaker 2nd edition from the get go or just an expansion with no fixes for the base?

Thanks

Tom

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

TRDG wrote:

Thanks Jason so can you say if this first supliment fix the Kingdom rules for Kingmaker 2nd edition from the get go or just an expansion with no fixes for the base?

Thanks

Tom

This supplement fixes a great many of the issues with the kingdom rules for PF2. The latest Kickstarter update from today gives more details, and it'll be up and available to everyone next week!


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PERFECT, thank you sir and can't wait to pick it up!!

Tom

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

TRDG wrote:

PERFECT, thank you sir and can't wait to pick it up!!

Tom

Awesome. We're doing some final edits on it now.

I will say, of course, that you're welcome to join our Patreon at the link above, as Patrons can preorder the book (and all of our releases) ahead of time! We have lots of PF1 and PF2 content as well as work on other projects if you want to check it out!


Jason Nelson wrote:

...

We have lots of PF1 and PF2 content as well as work on other projects if you want to check it out!

That sounds wonderful! :)

By the way, if one has a question about an older LG product, where should that question be asked? In the relevant product thread (e.g., the Jade Regent plug-ins)? Or is there an "Ask Jason Nelson" thread somewhere on the forums here?


Bellona wrote:
...is there an "Ask Jason Nelson" thread somewhere on the forums here?

This should be a thing! ^_^


Jason Nelson wrote:
TRDG wrote:

PERFECT, thank you sir and can't wait to pick it up!!

Tom

Awesome. We're doing some final edits on it now.

I will say, of course, that you're welcome to join our Patreon at the link above, as Patrons can preorder the book (and all of our releases) ahead of time! We have lots of PF1 and PF2 content as well as work on other projects if you want to check it out!

Is there any word on when those who missed the Kickstarter will be able to pick this supplement up?

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

FWCain wrote:
Bellona wrote:
...is there an "Ask Jason Nelson" thread somewhere on the forums here?

This should be a thing! ^_^

That probably SHOULD be a thing.

Where do such threads usually live?

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

boothy wrote:
Jason Nelson wrote:
TRDG wrote:

PERFECT, thank you sir and can't wait to pick it up!!

Tom

Awesome. We're doing some final edits on it now.

I will say, of course, that you're welcome to join our Patreon at the link above, as Patrons can preorder the book (and all of our releases) ahead of time! We have lots of PF1 and PF2 content as well as work on other projects if you want to check it out!

Is there any word on when those who missed the Kickstarter will be able to pick this supplement up?

Next week on PF2sday! :)


Jason Nelson wrote:

That probably SHOULD be a thing.

Where do such threads usually live?

Community> Forums> Gamer Life> Off Topic

At least that's where a slew of them are.


Jason Nelson wrote:
We're doing some final edits on (Ult. Rulership, for KM2e) now.
boothy wrote:
Is there any word on when those who missed the Kickstarter will be able to pick this supplement up?
Jason Nelson wrote:
Next week on PF2sday! :)

Jason,

Have you (Legendary Games) posted this product on your website yet, please? I'd like the URL, whenever it's available for order, so I can more quickly buy it, please.

Also, what product options will be available? That is: PDF? Hard copy? Both?

Thanks! ;-)
Franklin


I can't answer all of the questions, but I do know it's not yet available to the general public - version 3 with a bunch of fixes and corrections was made available yesterday to the KS backers, so I know it will definitely be soon™.

It's definitely PDF, and if I've followed the plan correctly there will be a print option (I'm certainly looking forward to getting one).

So while I'm not privy to LG's marketing strategy, please be patient, it won't be long!

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

There will be a print option, I backed the kickstarter for both PDF and Print.

I have the PDF now but I'm very underwhelmed by it.

It's barely useable.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
VanceMadrox wrote:

There will be a print option, I backed the kickstarter for both PDF and Print.

I have the PDF now but I'm very underwhelmed by it.

It's barely useable.

I'm very interested in hearing more. Any more details you'd mind sharing about the pros/cons of the supplement?

(I've backed it too, but I haven't familiarized myself well-enough with the original rules to evaluate its merits.)

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I'm working on going through v3 of it and typing up all my thoughts. Look for it either later today or tomorrow. I'll create a new thread in this forum.

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I'm still working on typing everything up BUT I'm going to provide my feedback directly to Legendary Games.

v3 won't be the last version and UR should be significantly improved by the time it's fully done.


Accidentally bought the wrong version online and Legendary was great about getting me the current version. UR V3 looking firward to reading it this weekend. My group starts kingdo. Building this upcoming week

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

VanceMadrox wrote:

I'm still working on typing everything up BUT I'm going to provide my feedback directly to Legendary Games.

v3 won't be the last version and UR should be significantly improved by the time it's fully done.

It's available and live on the various sites, but given that we plan another revision round we haven't done a big launch push. Anyone who gets it now will still be able to get the updated PDF when it's ready so no worries there.

Lots of good stuff in there but a little edition leakage here and there and some assumptions about rules. Looking forward to the final version!

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Michael Hebert 10 wrote:
Accidentally bought the wrong version online and Legendary was great about getting me the current version. UR V3 looking firward to reading it this weekend. My group starts kingdo. Building this upcoming week

We do aim to provide Legendary customer service. :)

Sovereign Court

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Ok I've gotten all my stuff organized and shared it with Legendary games.

Over 21 pages of notes, clarifications needed, and simple corrections for Ultimate Rulership 2e.

I'm looking forward to UR being as awesome as possible!


Jason Nelson wrote:

It's available and live on the various sites, but given that we plan another revision round we haven't done a big launch push. Anyone who gets it now will still be able to get the updated PDF when it's ready so no worries there.

Lots of good stuff in there but a little edition leakage here and there and some assumptions about rules. Looking forward to the final version!

A follow-up question for Jason...

How does one become one of your play-testers?

Given how passionate I am about kingdom building, and given my knowledge of history (another passion of mine), I might be able to give useful assistance on this and other products you (LG) make in support of the KM Anniversary edition.

Thanks,
Franklin


7-day link to the Legendary Games Discord - most of our discussions and interaction happen there.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
VanceMadrox wrote:

Ok I've gotten all my stuff organized and shared it with Legendary games.

Over 21 pages of notes, clarifications needed, and simple corrections for Ultimate Rulership 2e.

I'm looking forward to UR being as awesome as possible!

So I got an email noting that the final PDF for the Ultimate Rulership 2e book was now available. How does it look to you now?

Sovereign Court

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I actually had the opportunity to help edit and develop Ultimate Rulership a bit.

It has a lot of great ideas, I plan on posting a thread with my initial thoughts next week.

I also plan on doing some Kingdom Simulation using it but that will take a while.

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