Thread unlocked I see. :D
Alright, so to continue the discussion.
After playing a little bit more after the closing of the thread, another issue I saw is that the Fighter does not get enough feats to compete with everyone else. And they still feel so small in comparison to what others get.
Why must a combat grab, be a press? This makes no sense at all. Why not do it at the start of the attack? I'll never understand why are these limitations here to someone who feels so limited already.
At 5th level, in comparison to what a wizard can do, vs what a fighter can do.
A Wizard has a couple of spells to choose from each doing something else..
The Fighter has only 3 feats which already feel limiting, with negative penalties. (this is not quadratic lizard, linear gizard talk about DPS)
Instead, why not increase the amount of feats the fighter gets? To have more things to do in combat, so you don't feel so *linear* in your choice of specialization.
So let's say, because it is like this. Would a Fighter be able to pull off feats like Combat Grab, regardless?
The deal isn't to make it realistic. Give the fighter tools only available to him. Per se the critical specialization is fine But let's say he can target creatures and their weak spots better. You don't need to have it realistic.
He currently has some tidbits, but is outclassed in terms of what he can do opposed to other classes.
Fighter D&D 5E is just horrendous in my opinion. He has some tiny tricks up his sleeve which are clearly outclassed by the barbarian and the monk in terms of melee.
I'd say the fighter in Pathfinder 2E is good only about 1/3. He has a decent and good start based on what tools he has available right now.
But he needs to be more versatile then that. He doesn't only know a couple of pre-defined skills. There is a plethora of different fighting styles available, and cherrypicking doesn't do it much glory.
The critical specialization is fine. Only what's your chance that you can score a critical strike in Pathfinder 2E? Very low. The effects of the critical strikes are good, but let's say you can apply them all the time. Suddenly the Fighter which can make targets flat footed all the time, bleeding etc is more threataning and gives him a wider pool of weapon usage to reap the effects.
I'll try the following changes since I'll be playing with Yoogee next Sunday:
And see how this works. :D
Brother Fen wrote:
No one can wield a sword in their shield arm. That's like complaining that you can't fire a bow with your toes.
You're clearly not reading the point that you don't hold a shield, rather it's on your arm. Your hand is still free.
Most of the people above, like to cling to one point which is the DPS. Forget the DPS. Look at the other points.
Better yet. LOOK AT THIS
YooGee the Kodiak DM wrote:
Let's ignore the DPS for a moment there, what tricks are there?
Intimidating Strike? Combat Grab? Double Shot? Most of the good ones, require 1 free hand, which is occupied by the shield. At no point there is something, which consists the shield apart form Reactive Shield. Abilities like Twin Parry Should be reactions because you usually parry as a reaction not, as an action.
Most of the tools which a fighter knows to combat problems are way at the end of the leveling tree. Level 14 has knockdown per se. But do you realize how long that is until you get those?
Most of the other tricks are moving things, and let's face it. They are very situational.
Don't take PA. It's a trap. If you have any level of potency rune on your weapon, it's a straight downgrade. I forget the name of it, but the feat that lets you ignore your second strike for MAP if it misses is much better.
Now that I think about it, good point. :D
This is the point of realism where it gets really wonky. If you cut someone, he starts bleeding by default. Why don't most weapons have a bleeding value. We can add realism to this as much as we want. A simple taunt ability which would only be usuable let's say, once or twice per encounter like Spell Points for Fighters would be simple enough to mitigate all of the above problems.
Pen & Paper RPG's which go along the lines of D&D/Pathfinder, have a long history of Fighters being the single most s#%#tiest class ever. Literally why bother with some tiny mechanics that don't do anything when you can just be a Barbarian, Rogue, literally anything else.
Hello, I want to talk about the fighter and how weak it feels when it competes in terms of DPS towards other classes and it feels weak, in terms of what it can do, apart from attack and the occasional shield block to defend a friendly character. I will be speaking about 10th level.
The first issue I have come upon is the flavor text of the fighter:
"During combat, you stand between allies and enemies if you’re a melee fighter. You draw fire and deal out major damage with unmatched accuracy. Your ability to attack foes who move away lets you punish those who try to get past you. If you’re a ranged fighter, you deliver precise shots from a distance. It’s likely you’ll benefit from spells from spellcasting allies to make you tougher, faster, or better at attacking."
The thing is, there is no ability which allows you to draw fire, and I am clearly out DPS'ed by other classes. There's literally no Taunt ability which allows me to shield my allies. The Coerce ability works if I speak for 1 minute but I'm sure enemies won't wait for me to finish my emotional speech.
Sure the DM might decide that since I go first enemies would attack me, but other than that in an ambush I can't make my enemies draw the fire to me.
There is no incentive for me to play as a Fighter with a sword and a shield dishing out massive damage, where clearly the damage is not there.
Sure, I can take Power Attack, and the damage would seldom increase when I mix it with Forceful weapons such as the Scimitar and the Orc NeckSplitter. But that would be 5d8 at most,
Now that's only DPS wise.
Versatility wise, the class is lacking. If you look at fighters throughout they can complete combat feats which others aren't able to do normally. Their weapon training would allow them to do much more and clearly with the critical specialization that was the intention.
But it is still lacking. I still would need to roll a critical hit against a creature which means going over it's AC or rolling a 20 which is hard however you look at it. I would allow the fighters to use the critical specialization without having them hit a Critical at any case.
I would love to hear what other people think. :D