This is a spoiler-filled resource thread for GMs running the Agents of Edgewatch Adventure Path, specifically for the fifth adventure, "Belly of the Black Whale."
Two things I wanted to know quickly with my quick read of the book,
1.) How did Wymsal decode the Eyes of Absalom issue that he got on his doorstep to become 'Harrowland Tent.'? I'm checking through the other books and not seeing the code of how Wymsal would of came up to that decoded message. Unless that issue is just special copy that someone wanted to give Wymsal a heads-up warning.
2.) I'm now looking at the dates when the Eyes of Absalom are being being published, is the entire adventure supposed to be played in the entire month of Arodus and part of Rova's timeframe with no chances of long-term downtime or breaks for the players? I mean I could just photoshop the numbers on there to make it fit on the time scale, but how quick are the Twilight Four's plans that the heroes only have a month and week~ to stop them?
Otherwise, it's an interesting book and I'm getting some Bendy and the Ink Machine vibes from Vancasterkin and loving the eldritch and clockwork themes with him in game.
1- I think is an special edition made for Wymsal but it has a code if someone else read it.
2-Is planned to be played during the span of the radiant festival i think that it's two or three months. maybe you can make than the festival is much longer or that this or the last book occur after the festival that has been cancelled because of the turmoil.
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Two things I wanted to know quickly with my quick read of the book,
1.) How did Wymsal decode the Eyes of Absalom issue that he got on his doorstep to become 'Harrowland Tent.'? I'm checking through the other books and not seeing the code of how Wymsal would of came up to that decoded message. Unless that issue is just special copy that someone wanted to give Wymsal a heads-up warning.
I believe the implication is that it is indeed a special copy. Either way, it was unambiguously sent to him by Mr. Vancaskerkin himself. It was specifically sent to lure him there so he could be framed for murder. In fact, this is how he knows who framed him. He knows Vancaskerkin tipped off the Watch to his presence there, and knows he could've sent the paper, but both actions only make sense if Vancaskerkin knew the body was there. Hence, him knowing who framed him.
My apologies if this is not the relevant place to ask but who is the person on the cover? Is that Asilia of Gyr?
My apologies if this is not the relevant place to ask but who is the person on the cover? Is that Asilia of Gyr?
My guess is that it's Olansa Terimor, but I'm very much not 100% on that. We did get a portrait of Asilia in... Book 3?
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Seeing as how she’s on the cover, doesn’t appear in the AP itself, and has a Norgorber symbol on her, yeah pretty safe bet that’s Olansa.
Late reply, but I'm pretty sure it is
Flakfatter was on book 3 cover, but is encountered in book 4.
Reginald is on book 4 cover, but is encountered in book 5.
I'm guess Olansa is book 5 cover, and encountered in book 6, and it seems the person on the book 6 cover is that Blune architect for the Graveraker? Can't wait to read that one, I love proteans.
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Last post about it just to confirm this theory to anyone still wondering: as an online GM, I rely (too much) on illustrations, and went to Lie Setiawan's portfolio (they're the cover artist for the AP) to find illustrations for who I am now sure are Olansa Terimor & Blune Bandersworth (on Book 6's cover, as you folks had guessed) since their names are in their files'.
If you're a sucker for sketches like me you might be interested in what they have posted over there, but what amuses me the most is that the version of Olansa on their portfolio has her hair braided and on Book 5's cover she doesn't have any fancy hairdo. One can only imagine the conversations during the creative process...
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I've gotta pretty important issue with this Volume. The adventure is amazing, in every way, except one: I'm having trouble rationalizing how my LG Paladin is going to function breaking into a lawful prison to free someone who is by all legal means implicated in a crime, after they have to spend time lying and ruining their own character publicly.
So far there's been a few moments where my paladin had slight qualms but those volume seems very much like 'time to have them step aside for a guest character' time.
Anyone else feel this way or am I just overthinking?
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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I've gotta pretty important issue with this Volume. The adventure is amazing, in every way, except one: I'm having trouble rationalizing how my LG Paladin is going to function breaking into a lawful prison to free someone who is by all legal means implicated in a crime, after they have to spend time lying and ruining their own character publicly.
So far there's been a few moments where my paladin had slight qualms but those volume seems very much like 'time to have them step aside for a guest character' time.
Anyone else feel this way or am I just overthinking?
Eh, I see where you're coming from, but I think you might be overthinking it.
It should be pretty clear to the paladin that the Primarch has been framed. They get warned ahead of time that the frame is coming. Then, once the trap springs, the PCs are also hit with a barrage of false accusations.
More than that, the frame is explicitly presented as a plan by the Twilight Four to get the Primarch out of the way and seize power.
The party then gets dishonorably discharged from the watch, which blocks off any sort of legal/legitimate means for proving the Primarch's innocence and foiling the Twilight Four's plans.
At that point, an evil cult has sent an obviously innocent man to a prison filled with the most dangerous criminals in Absalom in order to seize power over the city and enact some insidious plan. Saving him seems well in line with the Good tenets at the very least.
The only tricky part is the Paladin needing to lie and ruin their reputation, but strictly speaking, that's optional. All lying or planting evidence does is help the party earn Miogimo's trust, but Miogimio helps them either way--and arguably, Miogimo probably should have some qualms about trusting a paladin.
I've gotta pretty important issue with this Volume. The adventure is amazing, in every way, except one: I'm having trouble rationalizing how my LG Paladin is going to function breaking into a lawful prison to free someone who is by all legal means implicated in a crime, after they have to spend time lying and ruining their own character publicly.
So far there's been a few moments where my paladin had slight qualms but those volume seems very much like 'time to have them step aside for a guest character' time.
Anyone else feel this way or am I just overthinking?
I understand your problem, Virellius; I think depending on your players' sensibilities, it could either go well or mildly. I am personally not too worried about my group, but I'm faaar from getting to this point.
I would advise you to make very clear that Wynnsal Starborn should not be imprisoned.
To play up the fact that the laws of the city are being used against themselves and the greater good.
Even a LG Paladin should be able to see the evil in what is happening, especially since the Black Whale is far from a "good aligned" jail. For Norgorber's sake, good guards can't even stay employed there for long because of the evil nature of the methods used.
Present it as a necessary evil Absalom has had to tolerate - or inflict - in order to keep horrendous criminals from escaping, and make your PCs (especially the idealists among them) want to get rid of it entirely long-term.
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I'm just here for the sharktopus.
My biggest worry is in having him working with Miogimo. He's a paladin of Zohls/Verity, so pursuing investigations is right up his alley to bring justice, but as a Paladin, it's a bit hard to imagine him working with the biggest crime lord in all of Absalom, not to mention being an exceptionally rare and powerful undead.
Talking with the lich in the Norgorberite temple was... tolerable, as there was no long term interaction, but having to not only work outside the law but flat out work AGAINST it, it pushing it.
Besides, the party has only met Wynsal a few times. Anyone could just SAY they were being framed. It happens all the time. why should he believe Starborne over Asillia, for example?
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I guess because he spots the frame coming, warns the PCs about it, and then willingly steps into it?
Like, if Wynsal is guilty, and knows he's going to be caught soon and sent to the impossible to escape prison, why does he walk into that trap? How does that advance his evil scheme?
As for working with Miogimo, you could always emphasize that they're actually working with Grimwold, who is trying to capture/destroy Miogimo. The PCs getting compromised, and needing info from Miogimo, gives them the perfect opportunity to get close to the crime lord and get Grimwold the info he needs to dismantle Miogimo's operations.
Plus, you can always play up Miogimo as a pitiful figure--at his heart, he's a guy obsessed with keeping peace and rooting out evil in Absalom--goals the Paladin should be sympathetic toward. Miogimo just got obsessed and lost his way.
I bet you nothing would make your Paladin feel more like a Paladin than convincing Miogimo to self-destruct.
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I fully concur with Benchak the Nightstalker.
The AP deals you all the cards you need to make this about your agents of Edgewatch - sorry, Starwatch, and about them getting to redeem and save the city, no matter the cost.
Although you are right to be careful with these events, you are absolutely able to frame the situation in a way that will entrance your player's character.
Unless they are roleplaying a "lawful stupid" PC and have a misplaced obstinacy about roleplaying their character without any flexibility, they should be able to see the good in what they are doing, and to see that you, as the GM, are giving them an opportunity to show how far this Paladin's dedication to the greater good really is.
It can - and arguably should - be harsh for such a character to debase themselves and to compromise their ideals this way (I'm eager to see the anguish of one of my players' character who's a Iomedae devout), even if it is temporary. Play up the tragic side of the situation, its powerlessness. This Paladin should accept to dirty his hands, but he souldn't be happy about it. and it should be another reason for him to want the Twighlight Four stopped once and for all. It should not be easy for him, and that is precisely the point: half the fun in playing a Champion, to me, lies in the moments where you are lead to compromise your ideals, or even betray them. This Paladin (not his player, mind you) is going to hate every second it; and it's going to fuel his eventual retributive strike.
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Believe me, I completely agree with ALL of you.
The issue I'm having mostly is not with alignment, but specifically with the Paladin's deity and her anathema.
Zohls - Anathema: Make judgments without evidence, contaminate evidence, obstruct truths
You are expected to act as a gang executioner, killing both Mother Venom and Twisted Jack, on the word of another crime lord, seems to be making judgement without specific evidence. Being a criminal doesn't mean you instantly must die, but the group isn't going to want to pull a Spider-Man and leave the villains alive and tied up somewhere, especially ones so powerful.
You are to sully your own name, ruin your own reputation, shake down a woman for cash (to robin hood to an orphanage, sure, but thats CG), and also hide the truth you know about the Twilight Four, Reginald, Wynsal, and everything.
For a paladin of almost any other deity, I can see where you're all coming from and I agree with you. I'm just having trouble fitting this deity's anathema in with becoming effectively a crime bosses hitman, not to mention having to just... allow or at least potentially bribe out a contract killing that you yourself are responsible for delivering the contract for.
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Has your group been pretty ruthless so far?
Knocking out criminals and arresting them has been SOP for my group, and Miogimo has no problem with the party dumping these folks with the city watch. Perhaps you could use Kapral (or bring in an NPC from Edgewatch/Starwatch who believes the PCs are innocent) to handle the cleanup and ensure the criminals end up in watch custody, as a way to incentivize the players to "pull a Spider-Man".
As for the paladin's anathema, maybe have Miogimo provide evidence for the targets' crimes? Or run some short investigation scenes ahead of the events to establish the criminals' guilt? Arguably, there should be enough evidence in the dungeons leading up to the enemy bosses to convince the paladin that these folks are bad news, and have committed crimes worthy of arrest. That even works for Willifred Stoneburrow, who its worth remembering is also a criminal and works (indirectly) for the Twilight Four.
For the assassination, maybe tweak the encounter to make it easier for the PCs to prevent it, without necessarily bribing Alzuna. Give them more chances to spot the tails, or to warn Grimwold before or during the meeting, or even fight off Alzuna before she finishes the deed.
As a fun little chaos element thrown in there, I had Mimmurath burst out of his cell the second the binding crystals fell down, which gave my agents the time to do the ritual and gtfo.
They still don't know what happened in there after they got out... I'm not sure if I want him to be caught again ^^ He sounds fun as a recurring villain for another campaign.
also they actually don't have to do what miogimo wants them to, they'd get 0 trust points, but they'll still get the required ritual in that case, before getting attacked by miogimo!
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How are the players supposed to pay for the Unfettered Mark ritual?
How are the players supposed to pay for the Unfettered Mark ritual?
Yeah i Waved the cost off to a single time cost not a per caster cost.... cause otherwise it's impossible to pay for...
How are the players supposed to pay for the Unfettered Mark ritual?Yeah i Waved the cost off to a single time cost not a per caster cost.... cause otherwise it's impossible to pay for...
I'm glad someone was in the same situation. I bumped off a 0 at the initial costs to make it accessible.
My players want a trial to prove their innocence. They do not want to appear corrupt to free Wynsal. Spellcasters in the party almost always see the monsters make there saves, so spells fizzle. The mechanics are not working out.
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Do they have an alternate plan to rescue Wynsal, or are they not interested in the jailbreak scenario at all?
As for spells, what spells are they casting, and on who? Book 4 was lousy with Norgorberite alchemists and priests who should be whiffing saves left and right.
If they're saving everything for the boss, well, bosses make saves in this edition.
My players want a trial to prove their innocence. They do not want to appear corrupt to free Wynsal. Spellcasters in the party almost always see the monsters make there saves, so spells fizzle. The mechanics are not working out.
In my game I had a session that adressed the evidence. Admiral de Gyr sat down with them and reviewed mountains of evidence with them.
Dozens of eye witnesses to their crimes, victim statement, lack of alibi, and so on and so forth.
She then went on to say that they had conducted massive mind probing and truth detection magic on all witnesses, and they all came in clean. Basically her whole attitude was that she was angry because she knew it was a set up but couldn't prove it, and any trial was rigged from the get go.
That kinda skewed my players away from going to court. Going to court meant losing.
IF they DO insist on going to court, go to court ! Have them present arguments, retain a barrister, appeal to jury.... and then have the jury unanimously declare them guilty (for the twilight four that's child's play) ...
And then have them start the prison break scene from the inside, with De Gyr or Grimwold smuggling them their gear and the ritual that they extracted from Miogimo in their cells.
Maps!
I've made some new versions of maps from Belly of the Black Whale. So far it covers:
- The House of Planes
- The Black Whale prison (Huge map! So I've included a 100px and 50px grid version)
- The Straight Edge
- Mother Venom's Lair
Where were you when I was building this part 3 months ago!!!!
Great job, hope it helps people ^^
has anyone changed the black whale prison break into an infiltration mission, similar to how the casino heist was presented?
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One of the ways I nudged my players toward rescuing Starborn early in book 5 was having the Skinner get sent to the same prison at the end of book 2, and then having word get back to them that she was murdered in her cell.
Then in book 5, I was able to suggest through friendly NPCs that Wynsal probably wouldn’t survive long in prison, especially once the Grand Council elects a new primarch. I made the political debate happening in the background a source of rising tension.
I'm still in book 3 but it's probably more relevant if I ask here:
Vancaskerkin has invited the PCs over for dinner. But now it occurred to me... can he eat/drink? Can he even pretend to ingest things?
Damn. Reginald Vancaskerkin is harsh.
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I'm still in book 3 but it's probably more relevant if I ask here:
Vancaskerkin has invited the PCs over for dinner. But now it occurred to me... can he eat/drink? Can he even pretend to ingest things?
He’s full of terrible goo already, what harm is a little more?
Haha fair enough, I might roleplay him as appearing to only eat a small portion or not particularly enjoy the meal.
The Kraken tie in for Reginald is pretty awesome. I haven't seen that one used before in an AP.
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I just realised something that is of vital importance to share with you all:
Vancaskerkin might be a reference to Pinocchio. Think about it: Boy who lies. Mechanical clockwork body. Sea beast tried to eat him. It all fits.
Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
I just realised something that is of vital importance to share with you all:
Vancaskerkin might be a reference to Pinocchio. Think about it: Boy who lies. Mechanical clockwork body. Sea beast tried to eat him. It all fits.
Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
I mean... You're not wrong...
Evil Pinocchio.
How does Lord Guirden's Master Brawler work? Does applying the ability cost an action or is it a free action that's added to any strike that hits?
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I was goofing around with the coven and started improvising 3-line poems for the coven castings. I realized I probably should have written them out beforehand. Just in case anyone wants some creepy poems for the verbal components, have them.
Chain lightning
Here in my coven the storm shall belong
To those whom we deem have done us wrong.
Let each foe be a link of pain and song!
Baleful Polymorph
Our foes come at us, their power they’ve showed
They do not know we’ve had magic bestowed
From that power we now make you a toad!
Acid arrow
My pain, my sorrow I give to this dart.
Loose this arrow, let it find my foe’s heart
Oh, don’t kill, I pray, but tear them apart.
Dominate
Listen, listen, hear our sweet melody
Your pain, your sorrow, we will remedy
Now follow the chords of our elegy
Mariner’s curse
Spirits of waves that drown ships thought stable
Take my foe’s body now straight and able
Place them upon a wobbly turntable.
(more coming!)
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Miogomo - does anyone have any more thoughts on what exactly he is a "crime lord" of.
His overall goal is like the Punisher. He wants to murder evil-doers within the city, as the Watch is incapable of this. To protect himself, he builds a power base of ghouls, and will also murder those who get in his way, like Grimwold. So far, so good.
But... when he's not murdering his enemies he also is a crime-lord. What sort of crime? And why? His overall goals are just murder and vengeance, so running a drugs gang or a racketeering scam doesn't really help him. And why would the other gangs of the city want to ally in any way with someone whose primary goal is basically to kill them.
I'm all down with the Magnificent Bastard trope and the PCs allying themselves with him. I'm just a little confused on his day-to-day activities as an NPC.
I can see Miogomo thinking he can solve crime in Absalom by taking over all aspects of it himself by offing or controlling all rivals before ending his operations. So a mix of The Punisher with The Kingpin except he's hiding his true intentions to all but his closest alles. Sort of the-ends-justify-the-means kind of person.
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I’m not sure I understand how taking over crime solves crime. Lets say he takes control of the drugs trade, a professional burglary racket, and the white collar crime property scams. Does he then… stop these operations? Or does he try and turn them into Robin Hood style outfits? How does that work with drugs?
I agree its supposed to be Punisher + Kingpin. I just don’t understand how those two fit together.
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(as an aside, I’ll be playing him a bit like Billy Butcher from The Boyz. It’s easy to have balls of steel when you are effectively immortal).
No way I am making the players pay that kind of coin for a ritual that is a forced plot element. That's nutty. I calculated it as 12000 gold per player. Level 8 x level 15 x 100. Am I missing something? Does someone give the players the coin to do this ritual?