you guys can feel free to continue debating what pax guilds should do and what pax guild shouldn't do or what golgotha should ornshouldnt do, but its not going to change what we're going to do. Have fun with your worthless debate.
the rule stated that if you voted for a landrush 1 Guild that one, do not vote. No members of pax aeternum landrush one voted for anybody other guild than aeternum in land rush two. Fact. No rules we're broken.
no coordination required. Just people that are sick of listening to you. You crap all over us for a week and you don't think we're going to be pissed?you can try to wrap it up in what's best for the community and what you feel is right all you want.
T7V Avari wrote:
the debate was never relevant. The reason I quoted the PM from Ryan to begin with with a show that he told us that he wouldn't remove Golgotha from the land rush.
after discussing the rest of the contents of that PM (which I did not take out of context) the golgothans decided that they did not share Ryan's concerns about big shadowy organizations coming into the game and that they would not remove themselves from the land rush. That was deacon and the rest of his leadership call to leave them there. Nobody elses. Golgotha alone has thousands of dollars tied up in early enrollment, why would they not want to vote for their settlement? that entire thread was completely worthless. It might have given a few people the opportunity to get up on her high horse and espouse the virtues of the community they want to create, but it had absolutely no relevance to Golgotha's place on the land rush, because that had already been decided. And then the question of whether pax is to deal with her more than one guild one guild or whatever, that is also not relevant. Thats not this community's call to make. How pax gaming this defines guild and how everybody else defines guild is clearly different (at least when it suits people here). We are not going to change our definitions to make people here happy. We already have long standing, clear, and concise definitions for things and we don't leave things wrapped up in platitudes and vagaries like other people do.
forgive misspellings and grammar errors, typing from a phone sucks.
Nobody has a position of authority over Aeternum, Golgotha, or Fidelis, since each of those three guilds has a member sitting on the Inner Sanctum. And, like I said before, the IS has not and can not direct the members of those guilds to vote for other guilds. The IS exists to maintain the Community, not the Guilds (as was pointed out somewhat earlier in this thread). So, nobody in a position of authority over the three Pax Gaming PFO Divisions has instructed anyone to do anything.
If Pax Gaming is instructing all of their members to vote for Pax Golgotha as long as they haven't already voted for TEO, Pax Aeternum, or T7V in the first Land Rush, then I think it's very clear that Pax is a single Guild and I would emphatically withdraw my support for Pax Golgotha even being in this phase of the Land Rush.
Pax Gaming has made no such directive to the members of Pax Aeternum, Pax Golgotha, or Pax Fidelis, nor would it. Nor would it be within the rights of the Inner Sanctum make such a directive, if it wanted to, as it would be considered a Divisional matter rather than a Community matter.
1. We've never had to use it, actually. It's there to cover our butts.
2. They leave. It's happened three times over the past 14 years. Two out of the three times they name changed the guilds so we could keep our Pax names if we ever wanted to make new guilds in said games. Some members stay with Pax, some members go with, some members stick with both.
<Magistry> Toombstone wrote:
Keep reading, the GM's run the guilds, the IS runs the Community. Guilds (we call them Divisions) are autonomous unless an issue comes up that affects the entire Pax Gaming Community. Inner Sanctum members can't just roll in and say "Hey guys, do this", that's not how we work.
Article 3.10 is in the Charter in relation to matters that affect the Pax Gaming Community *only* not in game matters. If Golgotha and Aeternum wanted to war with one another, we wouldn't stop them.
So Pax absorbed Golgotha to win the first land rush and now they are funneling votes to set Golgotha up as a Pax settlement? Is that the result of a secret deal Golgotha made when they joined Pax , that Pax would help you later to get your own settlement , it sure looks that way because that is what you are doing. Good thing you are left to police your own ethics , so you can get away with it.
No, the Golgothans did not vote for Aeternum, they're already on the landrush as Maelstrom and The Bloody Hand. You an see their votes on the original poll.
EDIT: I was mistaken, TBH wasn't on the first Landrush. but, at any rate, none of them voted for Aeternum the first go around. Nobody who voted Aeternum on the first landrush can vote for anything other than Aeternum on this landrush. That's in the rules. Anyone who is voting Golgotha is someone who did not vote Aeternum and who spent $100 just like everyone else and can vote for whoever they want.
I have no role in Aeternum or Golgotha as it relates to PFO. I'm just the leader of Pax gaming itself. Charlie George is the leader of Aeternum, Deacon is the leader of Golgotha, they run the guilds themselves and sit on the Pax gaming Inner Sanctum, sort of a board of directors for the overall Pax gaming Community.
Pax gaming isn't one guild, we're several guilds joined together under a common Community Charter: http://www.paxgaming.com/index.php?wiki/pax-gaming-charter/
Each GM is responsible for running his or her own guild, outside of the Community level affairs.
TEO ArchAnjel wrote:
At this point, I've had my say. I've made my position known and request that the developers take a close look at what has happened. I trust they will make whatever decision they feel best for the success of their game.
We've already talked with the developers about this exact thing. Ask Ryan. He and I PM'd about it two weeks ago. So did he and Charlie George. Ryan said, and I quote:
"I'm not going to tell you that Golgatha can't be on the leaderboard. I can't and won't put myself into the position of trying to untangle the various organizational structures of the 3rd parties that are going to be a part of our community."
I hesitate to even post that much of our discussion and I hope he doesn't mind.
Oh, yep, I definitely didn't understand that bit.
In that case, I'll plus one this.
Pretty much, yeah. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed SWG for what it was, and I was one of the people that stayed flagged for PVP all the time. There were all sorts of problems that stemmed from that, though, not least of which was people *unflagging* for PVP when faced by a superior force. Or people just... not... flagging... at all. And then all you have left is a social city building game with no other real purpose. At all.
Again, i want to stress. I loved SWG. But, SWG would have been better if there was no toggleable PVP.
Is the GW system the answer? I have no clue. I won't know until I've played it. On paper I like it, though. But, I can say that I don't want toggle PVP with 100% certainty. Either make it FFA with various flags that give you consequences (what they're doing), or make it FFA, or don't have PVP at all.
This +1. I'm the exact same way.
So much truthiness. You're my new favorite stabby short guy with a Disney name.
Ryan, for clarification, when the window is open is it *only* the settlement owners that are allowed to do the attacking? I'm discussing this with some folks and there seems to be some confusion as to whether *anyone* can waltz into the settlement hex during the window and basically have a rep-free free-for-all.
Doesn't piss me off, that's an accurate accounting =)
Don't listen to Areks, Avari. You're still my hero. Even if you didn't know it. You are. And yeah, we figured some folks would rib us about it.
I want to stress, though, that while Aeternum and UNC have dissolved their terms of alliance, our personal relationship with the folks in UNC are unchanged. Even if we end up poking each other with sharp objects in game.
Have fun with that. A warzone is a warzone regardless of what weapons are on the field.
Harad Navar wrote:
Asking questions, even legitimate ones, does not make any answer mandatory.
I don't disagree. but answers like "Yes" and "lots" don't serve any purpose other than to frustrate the asker. Something like "We're not 100% sure" or "We're still working this out before we give any concrete answers" or ever what Ryan actually ended up posting are better. Especially when the person asking is a potential customer (with the possibility of bringing in even more paying customers) and the person answering is the CEO of the company that stands to make money from those customers.
Ryan Dancey wrote:
Thanks Ryan =)
I'd rather get actual answers as opposed to having to "interpret" one word to mean what I want it to mean. Part of the problem with people on this forum is all of the interpreting of vague answers that goes on. If actual answers were given, then people might not be so damned combative and argumentative.
I don't understand why everyone is giving Steelwing such a hard time. He's asking perfectly reasonable and legitimate questions and you all are treating him like a blight on civilization.
How dare people have different priorities when it comes to this game...
Backend infrastructure to handle the sort of massive PVP that GW has proposed is something I've been concerned about as well. I'd love to see GW assuage those concerns with actual real answers (that said, I've already thrown my money at it, anyway).
One idea to get the ball rolling, is a Goblinworks-run Settlement at the beginning that becomes the "1st-BigTown". They could even have one of the pathfinder deities in mortal form as the de-facto leader/ruler/director of the settlement already Level 21 in all the available skills (!).
Steelwings warning shot aside, that's what we're trying to create with the Empire of Xeilias. We already came into PFO with the intent to be a major player and looking at PFO as having the same potential EVE had. Pax dropped the ball on EVE and went all in on SWG back in 2003. This time we wanted to set ourselves up in a position for success from teh get go, rather than success over the years. That said, Pax Gaming as a whole, and not just the leadership of Pax Aeternum and Pax Golgotha, are reaching out both within Pax Gaming and to our friends in other games (especially PVP oriented games) to see if there is interest among them to join us in the Empire of Xeilias in EE and OE. So far, so good, but a lot of people are still in "wait and see" mode. Folks want to see more solidified game mechanics, more gameplay videos (even at this early stage), etc before they commit. Still, that leaves me in a happy place, but I won't be comfortable until we're in game with at least one settlement and comfortable enough in numbers that we can support and defend it. But, I am very proud of all the owrk my leaders in Aeternum have been doing and I'm very happy to have the leaders of Golgotha along now, as well. They've added a great dynamic to an already diverse group of leadership. love my Paxians.
Like Krows says "it's a marathon, not a sprint".
+1 for truthiness
I've actually had people join Pax and end up leaving once they realized we played EVE on the opposite side of a war. Sucks because we've lost a few good people over the years, because of it, but it makes 100% total sense.
I accept Steelwings unwritten application to join the dysfunctional community that is the PFO posters at Paizo.com. Because I've said it, then it must now be a universally accepted community norm that Steelwing is a part of this community. Also, I'll put some more words here to further muddle what exactly it is that I'm trying to say, which even I'm not sure of (help... me...).
At any rate, as a "community" we suck, so I'm not sure why anyone would even want to be accepted by us. Steelwing speaks many things that I agree with, though, so I at least, would like to welcome him with open arms, hi-5's, and many of da beers.