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Well , Pax should do well in PFO if you can get two settlements now , people will see that you are going to be a strong influence in the future. I guess I will stop stirring the pot to see what comes to the surface. I'm sure that would be appreciated, and Pax has been, is, and will continue to be up front and as transparent as possible. Those that have taken the time to get to know us on a more than casual level are a better testament of our character than any Paxian ever will be.
So Pax absorbed Golgotha to win the first land rush and now they are funneling votes to set Golgotha up as a Pax settlement? Is that the result of a secret deal Golgotha made when they joined Pax , that Pax would help you later to get your own settlement , it sure looks that way because that is what you are doing. Good thing you are left to police your own ethics , so you can get away with it. Morbis and Uffda are the only two Golgothan votes for Aeternum that won Callambea. Those two are in this landrush under Aeternum also. "Pax" didn't win the first land rush. A guild within Pax did. That guild was Aeternum... And it did so with negligible help from Golgotha. Two votes. We are abiding by the rules. And yes, we do police ourselves. Pax has always been a community of multiple guilds. It started with six guilds in the same game back in 2001. It remains different guilds with different leadership. Those guild leaders collectively oversee the community known as Pax Gaming. -Areks
I think this discussion has highlighted the fact that the Pathfinder IP is seriously lacking in constructed languages of its own. The racial source books don't even include a basic primer of common words. In short if we are to come up with setting appropriate names we need more setting appropriate resources. +1 I actually wish they could license out the use (for a reasonable price) of Sindarin and other Tolkien languages for use in other fantasy realms.
...travel from Tavern to Tavern.PFO Pub Crawl! It'd be great if we could agree on a limited-time "no attacking" rule for the Crawlers. Awesome idea... not so much on the not attacking part tho. Speaking of which, does Aragon have plans for a Tavern... and if so what will it be called?
Bards... With hawt pants!!
I was speaking more towards home grown groups than evil off-shoots. I have no doubt that groups established by you and yours would be welcomed into the Accord regardless of alignment. You shouldn't be. I've been away for most of the semester. There's quite a bit I missed once they came in the door.
That's not the only way to join either! We are accepting independent settlements and companies as well! Don't think you'll have the numbers for the Land Rush but are interested in establishing a POI? We can help you make this happen! Settlements that join get equal voting rights in the Imperial High Consul (executive branch)! Sponsored Charter Companies get equal voting rights on the Xeilian Praetura (legislative council)! Don't wanna be involved in the big picture as far as Xeilias is concerned but still think you want to operate a business out of the Empire? Private Charter Companies can lease settlement space and don't have ties to the Empire. Last but not least, even though the Empire, right now, is a strictly lawful entity does not mean we don't accept Neutral or Chaotic allies. Currently we cannot support chaotic training, but hopefully we'll have that rectified in short order!
Completely understandable. So while IC personally you would object to a group using slavery, you wouldn't find that as a disqualifying factor for their admission into Roseblood? @Alexander- No mouse traps, I promise =)
Well to each his own. Take it that way if you like, but after expressing myself to both Avari and Lhan, they don't seem to think so. There is a difference between examining the merits and flaws of both assessments and being critical for no other reason that being critical. As I told Avari, I expressed myself to Lifedragn before the choices were even made that I agreed with Andius's assessmemt. Why should that change now? It shouldn't. Why is there an issue with me agreeing with him? There certainly was an issue when I disagreed with him when you two were pals, but now because your relationship has changed, I'm the bad guy for pointing out the merit in his assessment. Why does that have to be characterized as me being opportunistic instead of me simply being honest and expressing my opinion? I've done nothing but applaud you guys for your decision, its bold, brave, and praise worthy... but it wasn't the smartest move given my interpretation of TEO/T7V intentions. That takes NOTHING away from you. I completely disagreed with Andius airing dirty laundry in public. I completely agree with his opinion on where you guys should have gone but give you all the credit in world for making that choice and making the game that much more interesting. I'm not going to get pulled into yet another back and forth about anything besides the topic in the OP. Good day to you sir.
Stuff... I agree with most of that. Personally, I've never joined a guild and then traveled to meet them. I usually link up with people and if I end up joining, I'll get an escort if I don't know my way around or if I am out of my league. To be clear, I don't think that you guys made a "horrible mistake" or anything like that. I simply think Andius's plan has a greater potential for success than TEO/T7Vs plan. Again, that has quite a few variables that can be manipulated. You guys certainly aren't doomed from the start, but some things are going to have to break in your favor. If they don't I feel you will be set back compared to other settlements not relying on those breaks. Eventually, that could lead to your demise. Andius's plan is playing it safe and smart. You guys made the conscious decision to make a bold move and picked the perfect place to do so. Its highly defensible. Sometimes fate rewards the bold for thinking outside of the box and sometimes it punishes the bold for their arrogance. I've said as much to a few members of TEO and T7V. I'm not trying to be critical of you guys, I simply see merit in Andius's plan and I think those two can be separate. -Areks
When people that have the values Brighthaven and Phaeros share, they will likely start in Riverwatch. If they get killed a couple of times trying to get to Brighthaven and Phaeros, if they know about Brighthaven and Phaeros, they'll probably look for somewhere closer...= Hypothesis My friend, if I were implying those were geometry don't you think I would include something about distance and how if you formed a triangle around RW, K, and AD that the distance was shorter from RW to K than RW to AD? In fact, I do believe that was the very next sentence. Also, in the above quoted statement, I've highlighted key terms that I included so as to the best of my ability inform the reader that those were assumptions that I was making, not to be taken as fact, but a likelihood. It was the distance between Riverwatch and K as opposed to Riverwatch and "Mount Phaehaven" that I was referring to when I said "That's not a hypothesis, that's geometry." Perhaps I should have phrased it differently, sorry if there was confusion.
From an unbiased third party... I am affliated neither side of this debate. It has zero impact on me. So yes, I believe that qualifies as an unbiased opinion. The distance from Riverwatch to K is significantly less than Riverwatch to AD/AB. You mean to tell me that the above quote is a hypothesis and not simple geometry?
I would say you are mistaken my friend.
@Avari -
... We wanted to be centrally located near a road with specific diversified resources. Coin has no alignment. You don't have to be a specific alignment to enter Callambea or to conduct business there. I would say that you are accurate in your assessment that Chaotics will be running around Callambea. How is it not the EXACT same thing? Chaotic Evil characters will come to our city to trade. We intend to have the best goods. If we are successful in establishing that, CE will be held at bay by the value of Callambea as a marketplace. That may or may not happen, but they will have an incentive that is not over come by a pack mentality. What incentive do they have not to attack your recruits that cannot be overcome by them simply teaming up to defeat you through superior numbers? There is a consequence beyond death for aggressions towards Callambea. Again, not relevant to the OP. If you want to continue this discussion, we can take it to PM... =)
From an unbiased third party, I really don't see it this way. I don't think anyone is objecting to the fact that players will shape the geopolitical landscape. I agree that Andius's initial outburst was out of line. This proposition is not in that same spirit from my assessment. If you know anything about the past between Andius and I, you'll know where were quite frequently opposed to each other on a great many topics. This call is simply saying, "Hey, the South isn't where we belong, there are too many obstacles to overcome there." How that is "rallying against Roseblood" when over half of Roseblood doesn't even have a location on the map yet, nor is it a binding agreement past "don't be a jerk," is completely lost on me. I don't see the words of the developers as fallacy. You won't be able to bounce all over the map with teleportation. Travel will for the most part be linear. This means that the "he is using strawmen" defense dead in the water. If a new player gets killed going to Brighthaven or Phaeros once, they might try the journey again. If they get killed again, those odds lessen. If you shorten the distance for which the new player has to travel, you increase their chance of survival. Riverwatch is the designated "good" starter city. Its not going anywhere. When people that have the values Brighthaven and Phaeros share, they will likely start in Riverwatch. If they get killed a couple of times trying to get to Brighthaven and Phaeros, if they know about Brighthaven and Phaeros, they'll probably look for somewhere closer. That's not a hypothesis, that's geometry. The distance from Riverwatch to K is significantly less than Riverwatch to AD/AB. I'd say the chance of hostile encounters increases the closer you get to AD/AB. Thornkeep will be where CE players start. Those folks that don't really care if their rep/alignment takes a hit for RPKing. These things are facts, subject to variables, so long as the developers don't change them. Will you get recruits from Thornkeep and Inevitable? Yes, during EE. Come OE that likely hood drops with the access to Riverwatch. Evil characters are going to start in Thornkeep and Inevitable. The ones that are the "worst" kind of player will start in Thornkeep. That's the settlement you all are closest to. We don't know what will happen, but Andius is using sound reasoning. He's basing his proposal on what has been determined "likely to happen" from the blogs where the devs have described their intentions and expectations for the game. Again, this isn't about WHERE people will start. This is about the logistical demand of getting the majority of your recruits from Riverwatch to "Mount Phaehaven," the number of recruits that find that appealing, and will that number be greater than the evil players that want to dethrone you when evil settlements do not have the same hindrances in regards to standards of play and logistical demands on recruit acquisition. No one is saying its impossible. It is more likely that those hindrances will set you back and make you less effective against those that wish to dethrone you than if you were located closer to Riverwatch. That's not a slight to you guys, that's just an acknowledgement that what Andius is saying makes sense and he isn't using lies or deception in his argument. I don't have a horse in this race. It doesn't matter to me one way or another. People can say Andius is trying to use smoke and mirrors all they want... again, I really don't see it that way. The man is making perfect sense.
@Lhan
The developers have made the writing on the wall very clear as to why Andius's line of thinking is not only tactically, but logically sound as well. Can Lawful Good start in Fort Inevitable? Sure. But it's clear by design it's supposed to be the lawful "evil" starter city. Can Chaotic Good start in Thornkeep? Sure but it's clear by design it's suppose to be the chaotic "neutral" if not "evil" starter city. Unless you guys are operating on information from the developers that the rest of us are not privy to, which I highly doubt, Andius is making perfect sense. I applaud you all for thinking outside of the box and being as bold as you have. The problem with thinking outside of the box is, a lot of people will be skeptical until it is a proven strategy. From the information thus far, I would say it is safe to say in the long game, most of your Good players will start in Riverwatch, very far away from the bastion of light and goodness.
As far as the comment, from a personal and military standpoint as a Staff NCO for over 3+ years, Andius's line of reasoning makes tactical and logistical sense for the most part. That works if you are playing the short game. It is less likely in the long game. Again, all a matter of opinion at this point. The Devs could make Riverwatch LE, Inevitable CG, and Thornkeep NG and throw us all out of wack. My understanding is that Inevitable will be LN leaning evil, Thornkeep will be CN, and Riverwatch NG. In the long game, you would be fairly far away from where most NG players would likely start. The inability to swell your ranks when others can may lead to downfall. My opinion, I'm not saying it will or won't happen, but I think by choosing that location, not layout, that they've sold themselves short in that department. Time will tell.
The bandits are offset by the establishment of outposts. Doing that will allow merchants three different approaches into a controlled hex. I don't think they'll get starved out. T7V will be shuttling food more than likely if things get bad. Other then that, your assessment is spot on as far as I am concerned. Still foot traffic is an unpredictable variable. If allies take the settlement to the north the mountains, new players could take the road to that settlement and significantly reduce stress on TEO forces. We can hypothesize all day, but the picture will only get clearer oncer the land rush starts.
I did no such thing. Nor is Callambea the capital of Xeilias. I did voice my opinion in favor of H. We wanted to be centrally located near a road with specific diversified resources. Coin has no alignment. You don't have to be a specific alignment to enter Callambea or to conduct business there. Only time and gameplay will tell which choice, if any, if not all, were wisest. As far as the comment, from a personal and military standpoint as a Staff NCO for over 3+ years, Andius's line of reasoning makes tactical and logistical sense for the most part. I completely disagree with the notion that the chosen location for Brighthaven is indefensible. Its actually the best layout in regards to defensibility. I fully expect TEO to establish outpost check points on the northern terrain entrances and T7V to establish one on the southern entrance. This is going to allow Brighthaven to flourish and fully realize the functionality goals it has set for itself... but location isn't everything. No Main Supply Route. Completely on the opposite side of the map from the "Good" starting location. That's going to affect recruitment and personnel resources. If it is more difficult to get resources and it is a difficult location to get to, its less attractive point blank. Having to rely on someone else for food, which if disrupted, could cause problems as well. That and being in Inevitable and Thornkeep territory makes it more likely to be harassed by Evil and Chaotics. Is that going to set character development back? Is PvPing and losing half the time worse then only PvPing when you have to and winning most of the time? The main thing is this... will it get the foot traffic it needs to sustain its numbers if attacked? Only time is going to tell that. I'm skeptical, but if it does, it's COMPLETELY defensible. This would be the PERFECT location is it's exact layout was located at A. Again, just my two copper.
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