Challenge: Mx. 12


If you had a character, either human (without the double stat variant), half-elf or half-orc, who has, after racial modifications, all 12's as stats, what kind of character would you build?

I was thinking a sorcerer 5/dragon disciple X might be fun.

Perhaps a bard could also work.

Thoughts? Aside from "Why? Why would you do this to yourself?" ;)

Half-elf Summoner. Pips alone are enough to be able to always cast all spells, and you can operate just fine with those stats, as your Eidolon is uneffected by your low stats.
Half-elf for the favored class bonus, and immunity to sleep effects.

Yep, I was going to make the same suggestion.

Summoner or synthesist summoner.

Neither build is particularly reliant on their starting stats.

The synehtesist has the benefit of being able to "ignore" their low physical starting stats and replacing them with better ones for combat. An unlucky con or strength drain could really stymie a normal summoner with only 12 in those categories.

However, a regular summoner is generally more powerful do to the action economy of being able to buff your eidolon and then attack with them.

Either way, summoner is the class the best handles low ability scores.

Phantom thief skill-monkey. Won't be much of a combatant, but Skill Focus can really make up for lackluster stats as far as skill checks go. Possible prestige into Pathfinder Chronicler.

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Generally speaking, any sort of support build would work ok with these stats, since the effectiveness of your spells won't depend on DCs and you won't need high bonuses to hit and damage super effectively.

I would consider a reach cleric pretty highly, as long as it wasn't a 'no magic items' campaign you will be able to get your stats plenty high enough to be a deterrent on attacks of opportunity and get some combat reflexes. Getting up to a 19 WIS would be easily reachable by 17th level. Having medium armor will help with AC from not great DEX. I could see going evangelist cleric (although that would lose the armor or require a feat) to maximize support potential. I'd lean to cleric over bard, since it will give you more spells per day and without any good combat stat, actions that are useful without spells will be tricky, but a dazzling display bard could be quite effective and make a decent controller/support hybrid.

Any summoning focused build would also work, and pet classes also make sense, as the nod to summoner above indicates, but you could do similar things with druid or oracle pretty easily.

Yeah, definitely a pet class... Probably the Elemental Ally Druid with a level dip into Totem Spiritualist and VMC Bard for force multiplication. Spend feats to pick up an animal companion, and maybe a familiar.

Animal Companions and summoned allies won't care about your ability scores, so there's always that.
As for a build where your character is in the focus, I can't think of one where 12's down the line would make it better than just a normal allocation.
But all things considered, if your martial build is still functional with a -3 mod to your main ability, then those 12's doesn't matter that much.

Here's an attempt at a martial build that keeps its attack bonus relevant from level 1 and onwards.

Brawler 2/Unrogue 3:
Racial Traits and Traits
Human Racial Traits:
Bonus Feat
Dimdweller (Darkvision)

Surprise Weapon (+2 to Attacks with Improvised Weapons)
Sound of Mind (+2 to Will saves vs Mind-Affecting)

Class levels and Feats
1 Quick Draw, Equipment Trick (Scabbard)
2 Combat Expertise (B)

Unrogue (Guerrilla)
3 Possessed Hand
4 Blind-Fight (B)
5 Moonlight Stalker

Class Features
Brawler’s cunning, Martial flexibility, Martial training, Unarmed strike
Bonus combat feat, Brawler’s flurry
Finesse training, Skilled Liar
Rogue talent, Cover of Night
Secret Messenger, Sneak attack +2d6

Palelight Torch
Cloak of Eternal Mist
MWK Combat Scabbard
Combat Scabbard x 10

Defensive Stats
AC 16, Touch 11, Flat-footed 15 (+4 Armor, +1 Dex, +1 Buckler)
CMD 16 (BAB 4, Str/Dex 2)

HP 15 + 1d10+3d8

Fortitude: 4
Reflex: 7
Will: 2 (+2 vs Mind-Affecting)

Gains Total Concealment when benefiting from Concealment within Dim Light/Darkness.
Enemies can't make Attack of Opportunities against you when you benefit from Total Concealment.
Enemies can't use targeting effects on you.
Enemies can't see you.

Attack Routine
Lv 1: +6/+6 (1d6+3)
(Dedicated Adversary taken with Martial Flexibility)

Lv 2: +7/+6/+6 (1d6+3)
(MWK Scabbard for Flurry)

Lv 3: +8/+7/+7 (1d6+4 +SA)

lv 4: +9/+8/+8 (1d6+4 +SA)

lv 5: +12/+11/+11 (1d6+6 +SA)
(While concealed)


One of your attacks is a Swift action, doesn't suffer from the TWF penalty, and must be a thrown attack. The other two attacks can either be melee or thrown, but I'd recommend you to not throw away your MWK scabbard as they're valuable.

Brawler's are proficient with all weapons from the Close Weapon Group. A Combat Scabbard for a light blade is considered a close weapon, which grants proficiency and allows you to Flurry with it.

Normally, you can't use a Light Blade Scabbard with the Equipment Trick (Scabbard) feat, as they specify a Heavy Blade Scabbard. But as the description has the following sentence I see no problem with allowing the Hurl Scabbard trick to work with a Light Blade Scabbard.

Heavy Blade Scabbard Tricks wrote:
At your GM’s discretion, you may be able to use some of these tricks with a scabbard intended for a light blade, but that requires a separate Equipment Trick feat and may be less effective.


The Cloak of Eternal Mist provides concealment as long as you don't move, and that concealment lasts until you move from your position. So assuming you don't move, after the first round in combat you'll benefit from concealment.

The Cover of Night class feature upgrades your Concealment to Total Concealment when within Dim Light/Darkness. A Palelight torch will provide the Dim Light, but not in Bright Light, so avoid that.

Also, while using the cloak-given concealment to Stealth, you'd have a +4 from the Cloak, and another +7 from being in Dim Light.

If all stats in the party are 12, there's no downside to being a small race, or a dwarf, because your prime stat is not worse than the best than it can be.

If you're confined to a stat block of 12's all the way across the board, your best race is going to be a race that gives you +2 to your classes primary stats while dumping -2 in a stat you don't necessarily care about. So Aasimar or Tiefling might be a good option, as they are highly versatile in their stat options.

But if you're going to do something like this where 12's abound, you should pick a class that uses almost every stat. Warpriest, Bard, Investigator, and Rogue/Ninja stand out in my mind immediately. Stray away from pure casters or pure melee. I think you should go for hybrid classes and/or archetypes that gain massive benefits from multiple stats.

According to the OP, you're 12s after racial adjustments.

1 person marked this as a favorite.

if not stuck on human a halfling can be very scary used right:
Ashiftah witch archtype halfling with the 'creepy doll', 'skulker' and 'jinx' alt racial abilities.
and the Malicious Eye & Sluggish Jinx feats. the dc for saves might be small(at least it rises with your level) but the fact u can use evil eye on the same target all day long mean he will at least get the lesser effect each round or fail and take the full burnt of the hex+jinx. and youll be invisible while at it. (making 5 ft steps when needed to change location between reappearing and disappearing) and you can add intimidation when needed and spec on stealth as well.
all that not including the lovely spells. some of which don't allow saves like ill omen.
since you don't really use cackle (need the move action for vanishing) it will be like a horror movie with the doll silently staring at the target, vanishing and soundlessly appearing elsewhere...
" you want to play a game with me?..."

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder RPG / Advice / Challenge: Mx. 12 All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.