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Protoman is correct. With the FAQ link that he listed.

more importantly read it well, as it now means that you are considered to be "Armored" while shapeshifted with armor. So no dipping into monk wisdom bonus for ac bonus in animal form.

Lastly the wildling enchantment cost a lot (+3 enchantment), but with the errant change, if you get the enchantment,,,, you now suffer any ... armor check penalty, movement speed reduction, or arcane spell failure chance, that the armor has once you get the Wildling enchantment added to it (( but you do gain the armor AC and any enchantment AC bonus now as well)).

Just something to consider in your build plans for the future.


But you end up with problems. Fix those problem, and you create more rules.

End result, your playing a different game.



No bonus allowed to hit or miss. (except luck points)
Effect, no longer need Str, Dex. Realize you no longer need ability score at all, and get rid of them.
Result. Have three ability ( 3d6 to start +1 per level for each)

Health = hp = Normal hit points ( Heals 1 per hour of rest or 2 per hour of sleep )

Skills = skill points = can have up to 5 in any one skill, player picks which skill and how many point to put in them up to there max starting point total. Roll a 1d6 and roll equal or better than your skill point total (no bonus or penalty allowed = if you want to give them a bonus, just let them succeed, if you want to give them a penalty, just tale them they fail). Any yes, anyone can roll a 1 on any skill and succeed, even if untrained.

Luck = pool of points. You can only spend a max number of point in a round equal to your level. ( A 5th level fighter with 16 point, could spend 5 point in a round). Luck an be used to modify any roll, that your character is allowed to make (The fighter could effect his attack roll, but NOT the attack roll of anyone/anything else). It acts as a bonus to the roll, but can not make the roll go above the rolls max ( example: roll a 1d20 to hit, the fighter adds +5 to hit before the roll.... the roll is 18, so is treated as 20, with the other points lost.). Luck points have no effect on roll minims or Maximums when rolled. (example: roll a 1d6 damage, the fighter adds a +3 to damage luck bonus.... the roll is 1 damage, but as this is a natural minim roll, the luck bonus has no effect).
Luck bonus mainly are used for your rolls on to hit, damage, saving throws, initiative rolls, and skill checks. (Luck works kind of like hp in that you use them up, and you regain luck at a rate of 1 per hour of rest or 2 per hour of sleep).


Attack Roll (player decided what kind of attack he makes ... the higher the number that greater the risk of a miss)

5+ = body shot = to hit main body = 4 or less is a miss
10+ = aimed shot = to hit head, arms, and legs (Why = well like if they are not armored), to hit a well bucket swinging in the air type stuff = 9 or less is a miss
15+ = called shot = to hit eyes, ears, finger, toes, internal organs (once you punch throw the armor), or like the swinging rope that is holding a well bucket = 14 or less is a miss.

Problem, how do you handily AC with this system, solution turn armor in a HP system with some damage reduction.

Light armor = 20 hp = light shield +5 hp
Medium armor = 40 hp = medium shield + 10 hp
Heavy armor = 60 hp = heavy shield +15 hp

The armor will take up to 10 point of damage from each attack with any remain damage passing throw to the target wearing the armor. Any damage the armor takes is reduced from the armor total hp.
Shield act a separate line of defense, like a separate set of armor for the armor. player can chose to use or not use a shield for the attack that hits them. If they use the shield, it will take damage first.
(example = 5th level fighter, with a heavy armor and light shield has 60 hp armor and +5 hp shield, A 6th level fighter troll throws a 1d6 spear at the fighter and hits for 1d6 (x 2 vital strike ) + 6 damage (fighter power attack) for ( 4 rolled x 2 vital strike = 8 damage + 6 power attack damage = 14 points of damage total. The fighter use his shield so it take 5 point of damage and is destroyed, with the other 9 points of damage is reduced from his armor down to 51 hp left. ======== now if he had not used the shield, then the armor would be down to 50 hp, and he would have lost 4 hp from himself as that damage would have gotten throw).

** DM option (adult like this, but i leave it out for kids learning) = Environmental Armor or EVA for short = space armor/magic armor

Light +10 hp + 1 hour oxygen supply normal
Medium + 20 hp + 2 hour oxygen supply normal
Heavy + 30 hp + 4 hour oxygen supply normal

EVA hp are lost first, and all hp have to be lost before effecting the armor normal hp. While you have EVA hp, your suit is a sealed armor that protect you from gasses, external poisons, and breath attacks. (( most EVA suit has a visor that can be opened and closed, so you do not use of the oxygen supply, but while open, you are vulnerable to these attacks )).
(example= A Mage wearing light armor with light EVA, is taking a space walk on the moon. When a Moon spider jumps out and hit him for 15 points of damage. The first 10 point is taken off the EVA armor, with the other 5 point coming off his normal armor, and the mage is unhurt in the first attack. The problem is that the EVA armor is damaged (at zero), and the armor is no longer sealed, and the mage next round has to start taking suffocation damage each round.... and still has to worry about the moon spider to boot.)


What a mage wear armor.... well yes light armor for mages. Fighter are trained for medium armor and medium shields. Pionic can use heavy armor and heavy shields.

Fighter automatically get a power attack +1 damage per level to any single target per attack. They also get vital strike effect every 4 levels to any one (and only one) attack per round up to a max of x5 damage.. (example 1d6 spear, does x2 damage at 4th level, x3 damage at 8th level, x4 damage at 12th level, x5 damage at 16th level).

Mage has spells, ( although spell damage is reduced to 1d6 for 1-3 level spells, 2d6 for 4-6 level spells, 3d6 for 7-9 level spells and 4d6 for 10th level spells ). No spell resistance (why damage is lowered), no concentration checks, and no saving throws.... although the mage does have to make attack rolls which takes there place.
Many mage spells can effect more that one target, at a distance.

Pionic has spells. (think cleric, but no gods). Heavy armored, but they have Short Range spells; 4 inch + 1 inch per level reach. There offensive spells can only effect only one target (What is a offensive spell, that is determined by the caster, target, and DM. If anyone says it is offensive, then it is offensive). Beneficial spells like "breath underwater", require a group huddle, with a max of 8 target being effected by any single spell.
They also have to make an attack roll, to effect there target, veering by type of spell. (so no spell resistance, no concentration checks, and no saving throws).

Why is Pionic spell limited to one target with a max of 2 foot range at level 20. Because Pionic has such spells as Harm ( 10 hp per level damage and Heal 10 hp per level restore), Poison/Disease/Curse Cure/Cause with permanent effects. Command/Charm person, Baleful polymorph targets.

Some spell shuffling is required (current mage/cleric list ), but this is long overdue by now anyway.


Another problem = conversion = So what about a +3 Magic sword from D&D that is + to hit and damage.

**** The + to hit is lost. ******

The sword remains magic, and is just +3 to damage. It can still be used to hit creature that require +3 or less magic weapon to be damaged.


And the list goes own and explodes with spell conversion.

Like i said a different game. But a simpler game that you can keep in your mind, without a rule book to flip throw ((( ok spells are always an exception to that rule ;-p)


Internal organ ( Poison /Disease rolls ) 15+ to hit or saving throw checks. Harder to be effected, but harder to cure
Fire ( body shots ) 5+ to catch on fire, or smother put out fire.
Mind control spells ( Internal organ brain) 15+ to hit, and you have to tell the DM, where your targeting ... aka normally the head. .... also most mind control spells belong to Pionic (to limit there target number and range).

Ok, rambling... you did ask this in homebrew :)

I have looked into a level dip into monk for druid.

With the change to Wildling enchantment ( and therefor the wildshape in general ).

I do not think it is worth it. Two many thing working against it.

1) To gain the monk WIS bonus to AC, you have to be both Unarmed and Unencumbered. With the errant fix to wildling, You are now considered to be wearing armor even when it is melded to you, which just throws out the monk wis ac bonus right out the door.

The fix to this is just not to were any armor at all, but then your giving up +2 to +4 ac in human form at low level while wearing armor ( which at mid to high levels could be enchanted ).

If your encumbered ( which now care throw to wildshape), this also prevent to monk wis bonus.


What you are give up for the level dip is =

One lower level of wild-shape = Take you longer to gain forms and uses to use the monk ac wis bonus with.

-1 BAB for the live of your character = harder to hit stuff in all your form for the rest of your character life.

One level lower in spell per day / spell level / Caster level = for the life of you character life.


Stuff you do gain =

+1 Fort, + 2 Ref, +1 Will saves.

one extra Feat (from monk list), mostly Dodge .... although Combat reflexes, Improved grapple, or Throw Anything are not bad options.

The ability to do monk damage without weapons (which is very s by DM, weather this is useful or not at low level), and once you gain wildshape is mostly a pointless ability.


It is bad enough that the level dip hurts your spell casting, but the hit to BAB, hurts your combat.

It is still a option if you are in a low magic world,
a low level campaign world that does not go above level 9+ ,
or if you build a Dex based Elf with favorite class bonus going into AC, and Initiative feat build to take advantage of the high Dex.

But those are the pro and cons that i saw looking into it.

Ask your DM.

As the spell is written, i would allow it to be used to throw any 1 to 5 lb object up to 15 feet in any direction.

The spell does not say how much Force or Velocity the object has, while being moved.

Have seen enough old movie, were wizard cause a dagger to fly off a bookshelf, to make an attack. That i would allow it. But I an old timer.

A few note to my player if they read this tho.

You need weapon proficiency, if used on a weapon: or -4 to attack
You will be attack the creature normal AC: physical object are not touch attacks.
The attack is considered a range attack = does cause AoO
The weapon does suffer -5 to the damage ( minimum of 1 tho ).

Like so many magic spells.... you would be better off just picking up a chair, rock, or old log and throwing it at the creature, and do more damage that way.

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Haldelar Baxter wrote:

Looking for some ideas for a minor god that is CN and that has the following domains and subdomains;

Artifice (Construct and Industry Subdomain)
Community (Home Subdomain)
Travel (Trade Subdomain)

One possible idea is for one whose main focus is seeking and restoring ruined/lost castles.

I know it's not the best fit, so was looking for better options.

God of Socks

You have the domain of travel, because everyone walks. You need Artifice because socks are in constant need of creation and Repair. You have the Community domain because socks like to travel in community of pairs; and you need a community to create the socks.

Lastly you have the Chaos domain, because one sock always like to get lost or hide from you when you least expect it. Or they get a Hole in them and give you cowlises. (the dark side of being a sock god ).

yap, Minor god of Socks

It is any 1-5 lb object, that can be thrown up to 15 feet in any direction.

Yes, I have been hit by a rock in school, it only weight about 1 lb. Any it hurt like crazy.

I was refereeing to using the spell, to make one melee attack with a un-attended weapon, once per round. I do not see this is ground breaking, overpowered, or against the rules, as listed in the spell.


The spell does not directly effect living creature, and will not go down that line of non-sense.

Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S

Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target one non-magical, unattended object weighing up to 5 lbs.
Duration concentration
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no

You point your finger at an object and can lift it and move it at will from a distance. As a move action, you can propel the object as far as 15 feet in any direction, though the spell ends if the distance between you and the object ever exceeds the spell's range.


Sure you can use it to make melee attack with it as long as the object is 5 lb or less.

Gauntlet, daggers, punching daggers, spiked gauntlet, only weigh 1 lb.
Club's Shortspears, Starknife, Handaxes, only weigh 3 lbs.
Flail weigh 5 lbs.

You will have to Concentrated on the action every round; and it will only effect one object of 5 lb or less. Once the object is selected you can not change the object, you can only use one move action every round to make the attack. The attack can not be further than the listed range or it fails, and if the object is grabed, then it is on longer "unattended", and you lose control of the object.

Also, i do not see were the spell grant proficiency with the object, so if you do not have the weapon proficiency, then you would take a -4 to your attack roll with the object.

The spell has a duration of Concentration. This mean that anything that can break the concentration of the caster casting a spell, can also break the concentration of the user using this spell. There by ending the spell ( as listed on page 206 CRB). This also mean, that you can not cast another spell, while you are using this spell.


Yes i would allow you to make one melee attack with a weapon of 5 lb or less, once per round, while using this spell. Have seen it done enough in old movies, so sure why not.

ps= Since you are using a physical object to make the attack... the attack would be a normal range attack, and you would have to get past the creature normal AC.
--- is not a touch attack, like normal spells ---

Does a spell stack with itself on multiple casting. = No

Would you be able to effect different area with each casting = Yes

25 druid casting the same exact spell in the same exact area will have no effect, other than overwriting the preserve druid casting.

(damage and healing spell, are the normal exception to this logic ).

avr wrote:
The other thing is that it was noticeably more reliable in earlier editions, and it may be that some of what you're reading refers to that.

agree with Avr.

Early edition did not require the spell to be anchored, and so you had more way to use the spell, like a tangle foot bag, or as a "Wall of Webs" spell. Which is how i say many people use it under 1st and 2nd ed.

Bracer of Armor and wildshape were always confusing to me. As it was based of the mage armor spell.

see so many different ruling on weather Mage armor would or would not work for wildshape or monks. make my head spin.


Here is a good question for ya =

Ring of Feather Falling = The ring activated immediately if the wearer falls more than 5 feet. -- as in the ring is activated by itself, you do not have to activated the ring --

So if you are a Druid, wildshaped into an eagle, could you use this ring to prevent falling. Or do the polmorphed rules, just completely make this ring useless while polmorphed.

I would ask you GM.

I would allow it, due to the way that it is written. The weapon has two different enchantments, and what is "actual" bonus very's on wordplay.. as bane add +2, and i look at that as an "actual" bonus when used against the said bane creature.

(I do think that Furious is written badly), but as written, i would allows them to stack.


Ask, your GM!

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Triune wrote:
This is why I believe alignment descriptors on spells are sort of dumb. Actions are evil. Intents are evil. Power is just a means to an end, and can be used for good or evil. It has no innate morality. Why are spells evil in Pathfinder? Because they have the evil descriptor, that's why. It's pretty bad reasoning, and leads to a lot of headaches.

They have the good / evil descriptor, because cleric are not able to cast spell that are opposite to there alignment.

Good cleric are not able to memorize evil spells, and evil cleric are not able to memorize good spells. As listed under the cleric character description section of what spells they can cast.

Really, there are not that many spells that used them. And almost all spell that have them, .. are there as a limiting factor to which cleric are able to use them.

Just change the Names

Cleric become Psychic

Miracle spell become Alter reality.
Bless become Good Vibrations.
Shield of Faith become Psychic Shield.
Holy Smite become Psychic Smite of Good.

Level 6 = Do not wildshape = Go Humanoid.

You did start out with 14 str or greater ?
You did pick up power attack at level 3 right?
You did realize, that pathfinder druid know how to use Scythe :D

You do carry a Scythe as a Primary Weapon, 2 handed weapon, 2d4 damage for size (M), with a x4 critical damage.

At level 6, with a -2 penalty to hit, with 14 str, should be able to do:
2d4 + 3 str bonus (1.5x str bonus, for using two-handed weapon) + 6 power attack damage ( due to using a two-handed weapon like scythe or Primary natural weapon like bite).

then toss a few thousand gold around and enchant it like your fighter buddy does, or a few hundred for some alchemist shortcuts.


Even in dire wolf form (+4 str) = 1d8 bite + 6 str bonus ( due to having only 1 primary attack form for 1.5x str bonus), +6 power attack damage.... .. but sorry no cheap alchemist trick or enchantment, please see top entry for better option.


Best option = use both forms, humanoid and wildshape. Change as needed, to do get stuck in just one form. Keep an enchanted weapon, for your humanoid form for when you need to bypass DR.
Humanoid form might be slower, do less damage, but usually has better armor (AC), and can use trigger item like wands/potion/scrolls or Enchanted Weapon.

Power attack can be taken at level 3
Natural Spell can be taken at level 5

For caster = Improved Initiative is a good option at level one.
For fighter = Toughness is not a bad option for level one.

You said level 3, so will not sujest stuff past level 9

Vital Strike at level 9

Which leave level level 7 = Caster Reach spell / extend spell are cool flexable option.

Fighter at 7 = no idea now with the wildshape/wildling enchantment change ( would have said Heavy armor profiency before the change ), but do not think it is worth it anymore..... Maybe Craft Wondrous item feat: For some stat enchantment belts to str/dex/con, or a robe/amulet for better armor/attacks.

The Martial Druid, learn to use unarmed attacks more, does not learn armor, and focus more on mystical deference like that of a monk.

Ok, looking for an alternative to level dipping into monk.
So looking at this as an alternate class, like cave druid, swamp druids, urban druids, etc.
Just not so extreme and with just a few class ability swapped out.

At 1st level Martial Druids gain = Improved Unarmed Strike (Combat) Feat = You are skilled at fighting while unarmed.

Benefit: You are considered to be armed even when unarmed—you do not provoke attacks of opportunity when you attack foes while unarmed. Your unarmed strikes can deal lethal or nonlethal damage, at your choice.

Normal: Without this feat, you are considered unarmed when attacking with an unarmed strike, and you can deal only nonlethal damage with such an attack.

Damage listed here for quick reference: Dmg (T): 1, Dmg (S): 1d2, Dmg (M) 1d3, Dmg (L) 1d4, Dmg (H) 1d6. Type: Blunt Simple weapon.

Note: Strength bonus = add the wielder's Strength modifier to damage rolls for melee attacks with a light weapon if it's used in the primary hand, or half the wielder's Strength bonus if it's used in the off hand

This ability Replaces Medium Armor proficiency.

DM note: This is just swamping out medium armor proficiency for the Improved Unarmed Strike (combat) feat listed on page 126 of Core rule book. This is an inferior type, compared to what the monk gets, and does not stack with the monk/brawler version. If the player takes a level in monk or brawler, this is replaced by there better version. ... Lastly, Martial Druids do Not gain any kind of Furry ability of any kind at all, so do not even ask.

At 1st level Martial Druid gain = Dodge (Combat) Feat. They gain this feat even if they do not meet the Dexterity Prerequisite, but if they take any other feat that has the prerequisite of dodge as a prerequisite, they then must meet the dexterity prerequisite of dodge for dodge to be used as a prerequisite.

Benefit: You gain a +1 dodge bonus to your AC. A condition that makes you lose your Dex bonus to AC also makes you lose the benefits of this feat.

This ability Replaces Light Armor Proficiency.

At 1st level Martial Druid gain = AC Bonus (Ex) == This is the same as the monk ability of the same name.

When unarmored and unencumbered, the Martial Druid adds his Wisdom bonus (if any) to his AC and his CMD. In addition, a Martial Druid gains a +1 bonus to AC and CMD at 4th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every four Martial Druid levels thereafter, up to a maximum of +5 at 20th level.

These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the Martial Druid is flat-footed. He loses these bonuses when he is immobilized or helpless, when he wears any armor, when he carries a shield, or when he carries a medium or heavy load.

This ability Replaces the Druid Nature Bond ability.

The AC Bonus is the same as that listed for monk, and level in both classes stack for the purpose of increase in ac by level.


With the Martial druid =

You do not have to keep track of pets
You do not have to keep track of nature bond spell
You do not have to keep track of armor in and out of wildshape

Quick/Fast/Easy/Simple gameplay.

<@><@> Arg. .. Arg.

I also really like lizard men as a playable race.

The best entry that i have seen so far, that i would like as a DM & Player has been this one. As i feel it is well balanced, keep with the race ability should be, while still being playable as a 1st level character.

Link to lizard man PC class

Ok, the way i read it

1) When you wild-shape, you keep your med to heavy encumbrance weight = This i have no problem with.

2) If you are wearing armor, you are considered to be wearing armor when wild-shaped = This kills the whole level dipping into monk for the Wisdom bonus to AC. Which you would loose now, since you are considered to be wearing any kind of armor. == am neutral on this: It mainly hurts low level druids under level 11 as they can no longer use the ac bonus, unless they take off there armor before wildshape. After 11 level, you can afford the wild armor bonus ( +3 +1 = +4 or greater total ), at which point (under the old rules), you gained both, which i was against. As again, am neutral.

PS= You now might still be better off with a full Dex build, 1 level dip into monk, and just do without armor alltogether. at low level to mid level games, + the elf trait if you an elf for higher natural armor.

3) You now suffer speed, armor check penalty, dex limits = This just makes the whole armor kind of pointless as a +3 wild armorr enchantment.


All these rule = At this rate, i would have preferred the simple version.

A druid who wild-shape, get to keep all his armor bonus and penalty that the armor grants, and any enchantment bonus.

Then get ride of wild enchantment although,

Pixie, the Leng Queen wrote:

"Nerf Martials!!!! Caster martial disparity!!!"

Required statements here .

Oh here is some idea's to Nerf Martials

1) Require a concentration check to see if they can get a melee/ranger attack off.
Whether it is looking for an opening in there opponent defenses stance, getting buffeted by wind/rain/hail, or getting hit by damage and not able to see an opening due to pain/suffering. If they fail there concentration check, they lose the attack this round.

2) Melee attack Provoke Attacks of Opportunity, unless you make a concentration check to prevent the AoO vs DC 15 + ( 1 vs simple weapons, 3 vs Martial weapons, or 6 vs Exotic weapons). If they fail the check, they lose the attack this round.

3) Require a saving throw on Blunt/Slashing/Piercing damage.
Blunt damage can be halved with a fortitude saving throw.
Slashing damage can be halved with a will saving throw. (( dont make me come up with a excuse for using a will saving throw on damage attack, it is a bloody game, and i need a saving throw for slashing damage.... ok. ok. a reason = The target is using there will check to see if they get hit by the flat side of the slashing weapon vs the cutting blade side.. there happy now ;p ).
Piercing damage can be halved with a Reflex saving throw.

PS = Dont forget that Rogue/Monk/ 9th level ranger can also now use evasion to further reduce Piercing damage with there evasion ability. It make a much sense vs arrows and pikes as it does vs fireballs.


As an alternative = Would be glade to call a truss, if you

Get ride of spell resistance from the game altogether.
Get ride of Evasion/Improved Evasion from all classes.
Get ride of AoO, for casting in melee range ( still would suffer AoO for casting range attack spells ).

Here is an idea i have been thinking about.

Player ( and NPC, since i orgianl thought this out for them).

Start with there Intelligence score in skill points.

The player can spend these skill point however they wish, on skill. As a (zero level character). None of these skill are considered class skill, until the character chooses a class, which might add a class skill bonus.

They can even invest up to 5 skill point into skill as a max limit per skill.

Once these skill are chosen, they are locked in, and can not be changed. (sorry not a believer in re-training).

The player at 1st level and beyond, can not add skill point to these skill, until there character level is higher than the listed skill. (so at 6th character level, a character can add +1 skill point to a 5th level skill for a total of 6 skill points).


Eample: Tom, with 14 intelligence. Has 14 skill point, that can be spend on skills. Tom grow up on a farm in the wild back-country, so he choose to learn Survival - 4 skill points, Handle Animal - 4 skill point, Profession Farmer - 5 skill points, and he had to learn to ride horse around the farm - 1 skill point.

Tom had just one problem, he did not want to become a farmer like his father. He wanted to become a explore and adventure, to travel the lands, and see the world. So he found himself a Ranger trainer, and trained to become a ranger.

At 1st level ( ranger) = He gains a class and a list of class skill = He gains a class skill bonus on Survival, Handle animals, Profession, and ride.

At 1st level = He gained 6 more skill point + Int Modifier (+2 mod).
This lets him learn 8 more skill with 1 skill point in each skill.

He is unable to use any of these skill point on his base skill, until his character level excess his base skill level.


Kind of like letting all PC/NPC have starting HP = to Con score.

Came up with the idea, because i wanted my NPC to have some profession/craft skill at zero level, and be able to have some skill ( up to 5 skill point ) in a few different skill to be able to better perform there desired Job/hobby/interest.

Also, since this is a one time bonus of skill point at zero level, it does not interfere with the main skill system very much.


anyway my suggestion.

Why i like changing the word Cleric to psychic.

Even the positive and negative forces, work well with psychic idea.

a few spell name changes: miracle changed to Alter Reality.

anyway, how i like to run a godless campaign.

The Golux wrote:
If you have psionics, a replacement with Knowledge (Psionics) seems easiest...

second this idea, what i would do anyway.

<@><@> School: [Evil]

Black Magic thread, use at your own risk to your soul. wrote:

So, I'm running a campaign which takes place mostly underground, and the PCs are spending a lot of time with Dwarves who have never traded with the surface.

So what do Dwarves eat without access to the surface? Clearly they survived on Golarion for some time without access. An obvious one is mushroom dishes, and the occasional game meat like displacer beast, but for any large settlement, there would likely have to be some kind of semi-farmed animal.

My current fix is the invention of the 'deep goat', a variant underground goat with a black hide and darkvision. My argument to the players is that deep goats are clearly only omitted from the bestiaries due to space restrictions.

I could use some other suggestions as to what other foods underground races might eat, otherwise I'll have to go with displacer chickens, dark pigs, etc.

i really like the goat idea

Might throw in some insects, mushroom, albino fish, and moss.

Green moss tea, is kind of good, if you make sure to wash out the dirt.

As for drink, goat milk, teas, and molds can all be fermented in one shape or from, to make for some good drink.

Some Other Guy wrote:
Oliver McShade wrote:

True, but thankfully

Barbarians, Fighters, Rangers, and Rogues have bad will saves.

Animals, Construct, Magical Beast, Ooze, Plants and Vermin, normally have bad will saves in general.


beside magic is always a gamble in Pathfinder.
between the concentration check to cast it, the AoE cause by casting it, the damage you take from being hit by the AOE, the saving throw the creature has, and then Spell resistance, then spell immunity / damage resistance.

Ya might get lucky, and the DM, roll 1-5 on the saving throw :)


Of the 6 creature types you listed, 4 are completely immune to color spray.

You are right.

what i get for scamming the entries, in a hurry...

Ok, True strike it is then.

True, but thankfully

Barbarians, Fighters, Rangers, and Rogues have bad will saves.

Animals, Construct, Magical Beast, Ooze, Plants and Vermin, normally have bad will saves in general.


beside magic is always a gamble in Pathfinder.
between the concentration check to cast it, the AoE cause by casting it, the damage you take from being hit by the AOE, the saving throw the creature has, and then Spell resistance, then spell immunity / damage resistance.

Ya might get lucky, and the DM, roll 1-5 on the saving throw :)


If, you are starting all the player off at 1st level, then Yes, the idea could work.

But, No one will play a wizard = They will play Sorcerer's because they would not be depended on finding spell, which you have said no longer exist. They would just have them granted to them as they level, which is why people would play sorcerers.

Would Cleric (( or druids )), be able to gain magic, thro there gods ??
If yes, then people will play them, if not, they wont.
(This will also effect Ranger/Paladins as well).


As for the world = You will have mass Starvation, plague, famine, war, and Death.
.. Until the population reaches a point were they can survive on the supplies give to them on the 25 mile area... and while this may sound large, it really is not. Trade between citys, has always allowed citys to grow large... without other citys to trade with, a 25 mile radius area, would not sustain 10,000 humanoids for very long.

If everyone is 1st level = They would not survive in the wild for very long (unless the world is void of danger's creatures). Which makes for a boring world, latter on. once they get past level 5.


It can be done, but you will keep finding weird problem keep cropping up.

How are you going to effect = Incorporeal creatures without magic weapons ?? Shadows are going to be a real pain.

Will there be any other Humanoid race on the planet, do they have magic, if so: Do they have magic items, spell books, etc. (( if they have magic, and the pc only have access to 1st level spells, what is preventing them from invading and re-enslaving the PC race )).

If there are no other humanoid races = Were do the first Vampires, Lycanthrope, and other undead like mummy come from. ?

Starting size : small, Speed 40 feet, AC +2 natural armor
Attack: Bite (1d4), 2 claws (1d3);
Ability Score Str: 15, Dex 15, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6,
Special Race Abilitys = Low-light vision, scent

At 4th level = Size become medium, bite up to 1d6, 2 claws ( 1d4), gains +4 str, -2 dex, and +2 con.


Other than that, give the character a PC class at first level, add in a +2 bonus to one ability score of player choosing, ...... and if the player chooses a druid, let her use her wildshape to change into one humanoid race of her choosing (but limit it two only 1 kind, human/elf/dwarf etc) as a use of wildshape.

I would go with Color Spray, you did say 20 times a day right ?

even for 5 hd or more = 1 round of being Stunned
= Stunned: A stunned creature drops everything held, can't take actions, takes a -2 penalty to AC, and loses its Dexterity bonus to AC (if Any)

3 or 4 hd = Blinded and stunned 1d4 rounds + 1 round of Stunned.

1-2 HD = Unconscious, blinded and stunned 2d4 rounds, blinded and stunned +1d4 rounds, and then +1 round of stunned.

15 foot cone-shaped burst


Blast them this round, then Sneak Attack them next round to finish them off.

Umbral Reaver wrote:

Okay. So it seems like the initial idea is fraught with too many problems to work.

I wanted to build a story about the preservation of old culture in the face of overwhelming loss vs the creation of new.

New plan:

A patch of rural homeland about 25 miles in diameter gets dumped in this unknown world. Magic doesn't work and magic items become mundane; magic must be re-learned from scratch. Otherwise, you still have all your land, farms, supplies and tools.

That is the problem with your idea.

For a culture and civilization that uses magic, you effectively got rid of 1/2 half the classes. You turned everyone into Barbarian, Fighter and Rogues.

Worst of all, you are now playing reality.
Not a Fantasy game, were people have magic as there version of Technology. Even 1-3 level spells, can be viewed as modern teck, 4-6 level spells are future teck, and 7-9 level spells are gods/ancient/alien teck.


To put it another way .. If you like playing a full caster character, would you really want to play in a dead magic world, as a player.

If you can relearn it quickly, why bother taking it away. If you can not relearn it quickly, why play in such a world.

<@><@> ,

does anyone every just use this spell to clear the Field of rock and stone, for plowing the field.

As a child, i had to do that. I would have killed for this spell, after 3 hours of picking up rocks.

It depends on the DM alot.

Like some people have said, each have there strengths and weakness. By the book, i think the wizard pulls out a little ahead, by design.

BUT !!

If you have a DM, who does a lot of prisoner, group gets captured and imprisoned, spell book vulnerable to fire/water/bookworms, or even a Low magic world were spells/magic items are rare .... Well then the Sorcerer will pull out ahead.... sometime Way Ahead.


Here is how i would runs them

1) Does touch attack vs 1st range increment, but after that, would be normal attack. Armor is still effective, just not up close.

2) Would have firearm only do 1d4 damage per shot. See number 3 and 4 before you say that is low.

3) You can fire off a gun twice for each melee action you take. So if you swing a sword, you do 1d8. Or you can fire a gun at any 2 target (or the same target); no two of which can be more than 15 ft apart, for 1d4 damage each. == Full round action, fighter with 3 attacks, could in effect shoot 6 times, at a group of creatures who are all within 15 feet of each other ==

4) Pulse riffles ( yes a fan of rifts), would let you do 3d4 damage, when fired at a single target in sim-automatic mode, for modern to futuristic guns. Would use up 3 shots of ammo, and they all hit or miss together. Counts as a normal melee action tho, as it takes a little longer to fire.

5) Full auto-matic = Full round Spray. (Tommy guns in gangster movies) Treat is as a Area of Effect that does 2 damage per shot fired. Counts as a full melee round attack. Target effected, get a reflex save vs half damage (monk/rogue/9th level ranger = can reduce this even more). ==== Only 2 damage ?? due to the fact that tommy guns could have 20 or 50 round drum magazine. And as an AoE, there is no attack roll, when used this way.

6) Most guns are simple weapon, which most classes can just pick up and use. (( people who did not grow up around guns or watch tv shows with guns, might.. might suffer a penalty on there first 10 shoots, after which they can use normal )).

7) Number of shot dependent the weapon hold, dependent on teck-level. Reloading a weapon is a standard action, unless it is a musket or pistol, in which case it is a full round action.

A = Old world, 1 shoot. musket, pistols. Why it was normal to pull the weapon as a free action, fire, and drop. Then pull your melee weapon next round.

B = 6 shooter western. Could hand load it as a full round action, or swap out the drum as a standard action. == realistic, who cares.. what i saw on the black and white, westerns growing up.

C = Modern guns. Has 6, 7, 8, 12, 15 bullets per clip, depending on weapon type for hand guns. Riffles could have 15 to 25 depend on type, and tommy guns could have 50 round drum's.

D = Futuristic guns. Startrek (old), had about 20 shoots. Cold see the 25 - 50 depending on weapon type. Starship trooper had around 100-150, for the big bulky two handed riffles. Just depend on what GM says is available.


And this is Base line, before feat like deadly aim, many-shoot, vital strike, power-attack, weapon focus is added. Also before magic-enchantments are added to the guns or ammo to make them even more deadly.

More people die in the USA, each year due to stabbing than they do to guns. What makes guns great weapon is range and firing speed.

Guns only need to be 1d4 damage weapon to make them deadly, especially when most 1st level character only have 1d8 hp. So 2-4 shoot will kill most 1st level character, before feats and magic is added on top.

Continual Flame for street lamps (( light has a one use limit )).

Endure Elements = on Crab Fishermen = to help vs cold
Tiny Hut = on a boat deck, for protect vs wind, hail, snow, rain.
Phantom Steed = aka a really nice car that can turn into a hovercraft at high levels.
Spider Climb = window washer / Sailing boat rigging.

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

Also, Enlarge Person does work on a Wildshaped character, because their type does not change from their class feature, so they still count as a Humanoid for the purposes of spells and effects reliant on that. Even so, you can just cast it before you Wildshape anyway, and still maintain the benefits.

CRB page 212 = under Transmutation polymorph entry. = You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you ( or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell.

In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.


The last line, is why enlarge person does not work on a wildshaped character.

<@><@> KaBOOM

Batman: The Animated Series 1995

They have him trained as a Samurai. The pathfinder Samurai (ronin/knighterrent) , i would also think be perfect for the character.

Batarang = Boomerang exotic feat in the APG.

Oh.. that reminds me. My local Dollar General, stop selling the Lay Down bags of M&M Peanut's. They still sale the little candy rack bags, but not the 11 oz bag anymore :(

Hope it is just temporary.

Just though of something.... A maze.

A great way to lure.... Adventure into your trap.

Once there dead, take there magic items that remain.
And start a Magic shop.

The great Circle of Re-Usable Goods.

Crimlock NL wrote:
I want to create a backstory for a maze that I want to integrate in a campaign. I'm wondering if anybody has some original/classic suggestions about why the maze was build?

A Maze is a Keep Out Sign.

My spell book... mine mine mine. Go away, and no i am not sharing my spells with you :p

My Treasure chest is off limits too.

Here, play with the Chimera that i made, take the hint.... and go away.


Now if Adventure were not so Brave... foolish/dead, it would make many rich people happy, and there would be no need for mazes.

I like shopping at Wal-Mart, and K-Mart, and CVS, Wal-Greens, Freds, Dollar General, and Dollar Tree.


What amaze me is that you have Wizards and Cleric, running around using 6-7 or 8 th level spells, in a Fantasy world. And no one is able to start a simple magic business..... just because.... because it is... MAGIC.

I mean i do not mind that you do not allow magic shops.... it just encourage and gives a reason to player to take craft magic item feats.

... but then if your player are taking the feat, the so should your NPC, in which case your back to the point of ..... Why is non of your NPC starting a Magic shop, and running and import/export trade business of usable magic items.


Kind of like me saying.... You are not allowed to Buy a Car. You may go out and build Your own car, but your not allowed to Buy a car from someone else. Just because. It is two expense and rare an item, for you to be allowed to have.

Now you might find a car, and it might not be the right make/model/or color you want... but well your stuck with it. Your not allowed to sale it, just because, it is rare/expensive. Your not allowed to get the car you want, just because it is rare/expensive.... even if you have 3 times the cost in your bank account.


I guess what i am saying is... Not having Magic Shop... IS Meta-Gameing.

It makes no since, why there would not be a Magic-Mart in some location, once player hit the 15+ level mark...

9th level cleric can plane shift across worlds
11 th level druid can Transport via plant to anywhere on the planet
13 wizard/14 sorcerer can plane shift across worlds or Teleport without error long distance.
13 th level bard can Shadow Walk long distances.

I mean, you can travel to other planes of existence.... But no one has the ability to start a Magic shop ;(

just boggles the mind.

CRB = Destined
APG = You said you did not like protean.... So take a look at Starsoul. Lots of cool bonus spells, neat abilitys, and you can select Craft Rods, as one of your Bonus Feats.

Would still argue for Life Bubble. For Utility/Buff

At 9th level, you only get one spell to use for the day right.

Life bubble has a 2 hour duration per level = 18 hour use spell at 9th level.

You can cast it on yourself or you can share it with other, right out the box, in 1 hour increment. ( have a part of 4 = give 3 people the effect for 4 hours, and give yourself the effect for 6 hour, with one casting).

You get:
1) Breathe Freely, underwater or in vacuum of space.
2) Immune to harmful gases and vapors, including inhaled diseases and poisons and spells like "cloudkill" and "Stinking cloud"
3) The spell protects the subjects from extremes of temperature ( per Endure elements spell) as well as extremes of pressure.


Other utility = Wall of Stone is amazing in dungeon craws, caverns, and Citys.


Damage spell = 5th level spell: Flame Strike would be one i like.
Give a 10 foot radius ( 20 foot diameter blast area up to 40 feet high). Does 1d6 damage per caster level up to 15d6 max. Half the damage is fire but the other half is divine and not resistible.
This is the cleric version of a fireball.. shorter range and area, but can burn hotter in latter levels and less likely for it to be ignored by fire resistance creatures.
....Downside: same weakness of fireball: Saving throw is reflex based (monk/rogue/9th level ranger can evade it for even less damage), and spell resistance can stop it cold.

The only other damage spell i normal use on a cleric at low level ( we really do not get many at low levels ), is Sound burst... not so much for the damage, but for the chance to stun every creature in a 10 foot radius ( 20 foot diameter blast area) with a Fortitude save to avoid the stun. Stun = 1 round creature drops everything held, can't take actions, takes a -2 penalty to AC, and loses its Dexterity bonus to AC if any.
...Downside: can not effect creature that can not hear (but teamed up with a rogue with earplugs... and he can now use sneak attack vs stun creature that round), and spell resistance can stop it cold.
...Upside: Reach feat can extend the range with higher spell slots. Great spell to use on a cluster of archer... as they just dropped all there bows this round, if they fail the save.


Would also avoid spell resistance, the duration is just way to short. 1 minute per level, would mean you cast it and hope, something cast a spell on you to resist ( and pray it stop it them ), or you cast it, and then nothing
... there goes your 5th level spell slot for the day. Even worse, something win initiative, and cast something on your before you have a chance to cast it.
Get a Spell Resistance magic item instead, were you get spell resistance 24 hour a day as a magical effect.


Feats : APG Reach Spell (Metamagic) : Turns a Touch, Close, or Medium range spell up to a close, Medium, or Long range spell. Uses up a spell slot +1 for each range increase up to Long. ( +3 spell level to turn a touch spell into a long range touch attack ).

Good for Cure/Cause light wounds, if you need to effect friend/foe from a distance

At 9th level, you could use Bestow Curse as a 5th level spell slot to effect a creature up to 100 feet + 10 feet per level with the spell, as a range touch attack. ( same is true with Blindness/Deafness, Deeper Darkness, or Inflict serious wounds ).

or turn a Dismessal spell ( close ) to Medium range with a 5th level spell slot.

Feat : Selective Channeling : is another good feat, for a cleric. (( Kind of a feat tax really, as it should have been build into the basic ability, but it lets you not heal... the bad guys that are close to you when you heal the good guys. )).

Extra Channel is also another good one for a cleric, especially if you you got low charisma and/or a dwarf.

Extend spell (metamagic): Might be useful for a +1 to spell level. Depending on your play-style or DM.

anyway, hope this was helpfull.

Player wants magic item. (to old to tired to care about the fuss)

So usually goes like:

1-5 th level = Player gets whatever happens to drops
6-10th level = Player adventure for it.
11-15th level = Player Crafts it themselfs or they pay someone to craft it for them. With small delay in time for it being made.
16th + level = Plane shift to = Mega Mega Wal-Mart International = Every been to a Mega-Mall = Has everything for sale, just scrach off your gold amount, item is yours, now lets go use it till it breaks :D


Ps... I like Shopping at Wal-Mart: They have the stuff i want, without the bloody Haggling that i can not stand.

Love elves

They can all use long-swords and bows.

With a longsword at my hip, bow on me back, my Druid can spend the first 4 level of the game, pretending he is a Ranger in Hide armor :)

At 1st level, you get one spell per day: Might as well be Endure Elements with the 24 hour duration, cast first thing after you excuse yourself to the res.. ah Bush. In the morning

If you have a bonus 1st level spell.... pick some berry off the bushes, and cast goodberry, while your at it. A meal or Heal as you need them, just make sure to pick them, before using the bush.

By level 3, the rest of the party usually caches on, that i am not a Ranger, but Ha, by that point, i have proven that i can fight, track, provide food, and have really good perception for spotting enemy. Which i can keep doing, till around level 6 and i get elemental form.

If APG is used = Life Bubble has long duration = 2 hour per level. Can effect 1 creature per level ( duration divided up in 1 hour increment, between effected creatures), and great for exploring underwater / other air less environments.

Nice spell, if you want a buff with a good duration, that can let you explore area you would not be able to otherwise.

Chess Pwn wrote:
Oliver McShade wrote:
Lael Treventhius wrote:
Yes. You still need to by familar with the animal, so it could be the difference between being a cheetah and being a jaguar.

What he said is true, but which animals you are familiar with, is determined by your Game master. So you might want to check with him, to see what option you will be allowed to take.


also, in addition to what the spell allows... you also need to read page 211-212 " Transmutation = Polymorph " section. As this also list what you can and can not do, while polymorphed by the spell.... section is often overlooked by new players, but a must read if you are taking Druid.

You know you quoted a 6 year post right?

Does it matter how old the original post is, really. The 4 post before mine was recent.

Also, i run across these post all the time, when i am googling stuff. Even old post can still be good, on letting you know how to do stuff. After all i just ran across this post again, just now while web seraching :-)

also listed under the Dexterity (dex) entry, listed on page 16 of CRB.

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