Oliver McShade's page

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Haldelar Baxter wrote:

Looking for some ideas for a minor god that is CN and that has the following domains and subdomains;

Artifice (Construct and Industry Subdomain)
Community (Home Subdomain)
Travel (Trade Subdomain)

One possible idea is for one whose main focus is seeking and restoring ruined/lost castles.

I know it's not the best fit, so was looking for better options.

God of Socks

You have the domain of travel, because everyone walks. You need Artifice because socks are in constant need of creation and Repair. You have the Community domain because socks like to travel in community of pairs; and you need a community to create the socks.

Lastly you have the Chaos domain, because one sock always like to get lost or hide from you when you least expect it. Or they get a Hole in them and give you cowlises. (the dark side of being a sock god ).

yap, Minor god of Socks

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Triune wrote:
This is why I believe alignment descriptors on spells are sort of dumb. Actions are evil. Intents are evil. Power is just a means to an end, and can be used for good or evil. It has no innate morality. Why are spells evil in Pathfinder? Because they have the evil descriptor, that's why. It's pretty bad reasoning, and leads to a lot of headaches.

They have the good / evil descriptor, because cleric are not able to cast spell that are opposite to there alignment.

Good cleric are not able to memorize evil spells, and evil cleric are not able to memorize good spells. As listed under the cleric character description section of what spells they can cast.

Really, there are not that many spells that used them. And almost all spell that have them, .. are there as a limiting factor to which cleric are able to use them.

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What i miss from the old game.

Red box set = Map Ledger = Everyone who bought the red box set, had the same map ledger. What i notice most when i dug out and re-read the box set. That was a ready nice map ledger.

AD&D = Black and white art work. Was simple, but nice.

2nd ed AD&D = Cleric Sphere. Yes this was destroyed in Forgotten Realms, when they came out with Mystira priest having access to ALL sphere. But, before that God made a difference in what you could really cast, like in Dragonlance.

The other thing i like about 2nd AD&D was the skill Proficiency system, it really made rogue stand out, based on what skill you like, or did not.

Lastly = i miss the Monster manual ecology write up on creatures. It just made them more memorable somehow, more real.

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Because we do not wish for the plants to get killed.

... now the gaints on the other hand.... make good fertilizer out of those attacked, to grow more plants in :-)

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Keith McVean wrote:

Can a sorcerer use a limited wish to cast plane shift?

Limited wish states:

- Duplicate any sorcerer/wizard spell of 6th level or lower, provided the spell does not belong to one of your opposition schools.

- Duplicate any non-sorcerer/wizard spell of 5th level or lower, provided the spell does not belong to one of your opposition schools.

Trick is, Plane Shift is a 7th level Sorcerer/Wizard spell (i.e. too high level) but is also a 5th level Cleric spell (i.e. just fine).

As DM, ya i would allow it. As RAW, that is what the spell says.

A 4th level Paladin spell is gained at level 13 with bonus spell, 14 without bonus spell.

A 8th level Wizard spell is gained at 15 th level.

--- But Limited wish is blowing a 1,500 gold per Casting Plus any other expensive material component the spell normal requires --- regardless of what spell your casting.

What every level slippage there might be, i would say is compensated for by the extra casting cost of the limited wish spell.

(( Full wish cost 25,000 plus normal spell component cost )).... and is therefor covered on any level slippage at high levels.



Simulacrum is still a 7th level Wizard spell even though it is on the Summoner's spell list as a 5th level spell

Both the 7th level wizard spell and summoner 5th level are learn at level 13 for each class... So while it is a level 7th level spell for one class, and a 5th level spell for the other class... Both classes are able to cast the same spell at level 13.

With a Limited wish spell, it would also cost an extra 1,500 gold.


So as DM, i would say : Yes.

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I wonder.

I hear about using Acrobatics, to move through a threatened square without provoking an attack of opportunity from an enemy by using acrobatics.

I can understand how a Monk who is unencumbered, can do this. Or maybe a wizard/sorcerer who has a light load. Or maybe a rogue in light leather armor with light load.

But i always wonder how melee classes are able to do this, because.

You cannot use Acrobatics to move past foes if your speed is reduced due to carrying a medium or heavy load OR WEARING MEDIUM OR HEAVY ARMOR.

and what melee class is not wearing medium armor or better.

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Roger Corbera wrote:

Hello, once my players killed an orcs clans. After clawing through the barbarian chieftain his witch wife and his warrior concubines, they found three orcs toddlers. And the PC barbarian simply killed them.

Considering orcs are naturaly evil, that's not an evil act, but they were small kids, anyway.
So it was plague control or terrible crime?

If Orcs are naturaly evil in your game ?? If so, then it was not an evil act.

If orcs are not naturaly evil, but just evil in general, then yes, killing the orc babies ia an evil act.

So it depends on the Dungeon Master game, since the DM is the game high god, and depends on how you have set up the morality in your game world.


Real world, killing innocent kids, is consider evil. Yet many a crusader did it, in the name, of King, country, and god. And many still do it, to this day, in the name of Race, Religion, and Country.


Anyway, the D&D alignment system, is a goal to strive toward, not something most player character are or will achieve. Most player, only need to show that they are trying to work toward there alignment most of the time, and should not be a straight jack that they are stuck with................ except being Cleric, and Paladins who get there power from the DM, and who can lose them at ANY TIME, the DM, feel like it.

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What i would have preferred, for cleric, if i could re-write the class.

1) get rid, of domain power. (would you really want to go up to a priest who could shoot fire or acid from his fingertip, or bring you bad luck with a touch :(

2) Limit them to picking one domain of spell's.

3) Let them treat domain spells, as part of there spell list. So they can memorized domain spell like regular spells.

4) In addition to spontaneously casting cure spell, allow them to spontaneously convert there normal spells to there one domain spells.


Provide the option, to drop the channeling ability, for an extra +2 skill points per level.


Provide the option, to drop the channeling ability, for Heavy Armor Proficiency at 1st level, One Martial Weapon feat at 3rd level, and one Bonus Combat feat at 6th level.


Provide the option, to drop the channeling ability, for bonus Scribe scroll feat at 1st level, Brew Potion at 3rd level, and Craft magic arms and armor feat at 6th level.

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Ironwood, although, i wish they would just write this into the Ironwood spell description, with +5000 gp worth of rare hurbs or such.

Levitate or Fly = I want more Flying Castles, Islands, and building flying up in the skys, for a truely magicical (or high teck), world.

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Malwing wrote:

I see this a lot; Someone wants advice on or is describing their house rules for a low magic campaign. In Pathfinder this is a daunting task and there is a ton of different advice on how to go about this, from not leveling past 6th level to banning all full casters. But my question is "Why?"

Basically if you are a person that desires low magic campaign, why do you want this? Especially in a magic-heavy system like Pathfinder?

To clarify I'm not saying "If you like low magic so much get your butt in a different system." I'm trying to understand why there are a lot of attempts at low magic. Is it an innate storytelling desire? Is magic just complicated and overpowered? Are you trying to mimic a book or movie's setting and heavy magic disrupts it? Are you tired of all caster parties?

Because the world has changed since the early 70 and 80.

People are more into Reality, and less into Fantasy.

They keep talking about balance, when the game was designed, not for balance, but for cool adventure. Where most melee character shined at early level, were caster were 1 arrow away from death at most times. This would of course flip flop the other way around after 10th level, if the game every lasted that long.

Anyway, i miss the age of Flying Castles, Magic Jar used to still people bodies, and Haste aging you a year but giving you great advantages in combat. ..

Anyway, life is not fair, and i hate balance.. but then again, i miss the day's of having just 4 classes: Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, and Sorcerer (( ok it was Wizard, but would choose Sorcerer over Wizard any day now..... to many DM, starting the game off at 1st level, Imprisoned, Chained, and NO spell book...has made wizard a NO option )).

Oh well, i want Star Trek or Doctor Who, but using Magic instead of Technology :-D level 6+ spells please :-D

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Create Water & Purify Food and Drink = depended on GM' tho.

Detect Magic/ Stabilize / and Light.

Endure Elements = again depended on GM, but magic air condition/heater.

Goodberry, Longstrider, Obscuring mist.

Fog Cloud, Resist Energy, and Spider Climb.

Stone shape, and ah Diminish Plants = Like to use the Prune feature, for the gardening, lawns, Park type wood feel :)

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bookrat wrote:
Sleet Storm wrote:

Yeah, if said elven Bard would give 1000gp to the Bank of of Abadar at 5 percent interest p.a. and then wait for 200 years he would have :

1.72925808151599859948476232811067730715844959588 × 10⁷ gp so roughly 1.73 billion.

This is why many countries have a law in effect that says the government can seize a bank account if it is left unattended for more than x amount of years. The US is 10 years, and Australia is 7 years, iirc. Not sure what Abadar is. :)

also banks are now getting in on this. If you account does not have any activity for a year, then will start to charge a 6 dollar fee.

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Fencer_guy wrote:

I've often thought about this. I understand from a mechanical game that you have to balance all the classes.

However, it running through my mind. In a world were there are wizard that can create spells and explore magic why are there no spells for healing. (in general, the other classes spell lists)

To me if I was a wizard I would so spend the time to create arcane version of cleric and druid spells. Just to see their faces when you heal yourself or the cleric after he/she has been KO'ed.

Wizards and Sorcerer can cast Healing spells.

7th level Limited Wish spell = Cost 1,500 gold + cost of spell they are imitating.

Lets Wizards/Sorcerer cast any Cleric (or druid, or bard, paladin, etc ), of 5th level or lower.

Awaken: 1500 + 2000 gold for awaken cost = done
Raise dead: 1500 + 5000 gold worth of diam, for Raise dead cost = done.
Breath of Life: 1500 gold = done.
Cure Critical Wounds: 1500 gold = done.
Reincarnate: 1500 +1000 gold = done (( nice DM, might read that the limited wish would cover the cost of the 1000 gold, since it say so in the spell description as "More", but on save side, go ahead and figure the 1000 as extra cost.))
Holy Sword (paladin 4th level spell) = 1500 gold = done


Also Wizard/Sorcerer can use Wish as a 9th level spell = to cast any other caster class spell of 8th level or lower for 25,000 gold.

On the other hand, Cleric get assess to Miracle also at 9th level spell = To cast any other caster classes 8th level spell... Cleric do not have a gold requirement.... although they do have a DM/God requirement (( i would rather have the gold requirement, a lot less needless meta-gaming over does/doesn't this fall under the deity's alignment or area of influence. )).


So if you have money to burn, and can wait till 13th level as a wizard or 14th level as a Sorcerer... you can cast cleric/druid spells of 5th level or lower for 1500 + gold a cast.

17th Wizard or 18th Sorcerer = Can cast cleric/druid spells of 8th level or lower for 25,000 + gold a cast.

And really, how often do you really need to cast a Raise dead, heal, Awaken, or other spell,,,, even if you are into making magic item, as a wizard/sorcerer.

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Touc wrote:
Player is running a dhampir magus with a background that tampering with magic beyond his control as an apprentice opened a portal to the shadow plane, forever changing him (into dhampir). He's now seeing if his exposure might have done more and is asking about the lich template. While the full template is insanely powerful for a PC and I can't let that in, looking for thoughts on other options and game balance.

A lich is a Necromancer Wizard (see page 81-82) of PHB, who is at least 11 th level.

So if you allow evil characters, then

1) Let him play a Necromancer Wizard till level 11th
2) Have him spend 120,000 gp on Research
3) Have him go on 10 quests, to find out how to become a lich
4) Have him spend another 120,000 to make his phylactery
5) Give him a Saving throw vs Death magic. If he make the saving throw... he dies, and becomes a Lich in the normal way. If he fails, then he just dies, and vanishes forever into the negative plane, with no chance of being saved except by a full Wish.

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Page 83 Player hand book =

Familiars =
Attacks = Use the master's base attack bonus, as calculated from all his classes.

Deliver Touch Spell (su) = last line " As usual, if the master casts another spell before the touch is delivered, the touch spell dissipates"


This, and only this, makes me think that unlike summoned spell, the familiars remains a part of the actual caster. The familiar is a extension of the caster, and using it to attack people, is the same as if the caster himself caused the attack. ( otherwise the familiar would not have acted or attacked at all), and directing your familiar to attack, would be a attack, and would brake the invisibility spell.

In the case of Chill Touch, the familiar would not break the invisibility spell effect, until after he made the attack. (Casting chill touch, in and of itself would not break the spell).


anyway, i pushed the FAQ Mark button above as well.

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Mainly writing this down, because i have been thinking about a simple, quicker, more Board game type feel system. That would be easier for kids to play with.
While i started out with a pathfinder system, it quickly melted down into something else. If you do not like it, just ignore the post. This should be a good Hack and Slash system at low levels, but the higher the character levels, the more deadly the game become, unless you change the play style over to a more role-play, story type game feel, kind of like Doctor Who or some such.


Mind = 3d6

Used for = Starting Skill points. Placed in any skill the player wants, up to a max of 5 point into any one skill.

Skill roll = 1d6 = 1 is auto-success. 6 is auto-fail. Meet or beat the number of skill point that the player has in that skill. (no bonus or penalty allowed (Fate Point an exception) = you can either make the skill roll or you can not).

example: Jon has 4 skill points in Stealth. He rolls a 1d6, and get a 4. He meet the skill point check, and successfully used stealth this round.

+1 skill point per character level.


Body = 3d6

Used for Hit Points = Starting hp for character.

Player regains hp at 1 per hour of meditation or 2 per hour of sleep.

+1 hp per character level.


Spirit = 3d6

Used for Fate Points = Base fate point character has.

+1 Fate point per character level.

Player regains Fate Points at 1 per hour of meditation or 2 per hour of sleep.

  • You can not use more fate points in a round that you have character levels. A 5th level character can only use 5 fate point per round or less, in a given round Also. A 5th level character could spend 2 fate point on his initiative roll, 2 fate point on his to-hit roll, and 1 fate point on his damage roll. All during the same round.

  • Fate point must be allocated to the roll, before the roll is made. Extra points spend, that were not needed, are lost.

  • You can not change a natural rolled 1 or 20 on attack rolls, or natural rolled 1 or 6 on Skill checks. Fate point can not be used to exceed the dice roll at all. Example: Jon spends 4 fate point on his damage roll. He rolls a 1d6 for damage and rolls a 5. The fate points push this up to a 6, but can not exceed the dice roll of 6. The other 3 fate point over this are simple lost.

  • You can only use fate points on dice rolls, that your character makes. A 5th level character, decides to spend 3 fate points on his Diplomacy skill check. He has 2 skill point in Diplomacy to begin with. He rolls a 5 on his skill check. 2+3 = 5, which meets the skill roll of 5. So he succedes on his Diplomacy skill check this round.

  • Fate point can NOT be used, to effect DM dice rolls, other player dice rolls, or monster dice rolls that are made against you.



    1) Roll Initiative.
    2) When it is your turn, Roll movement = 1d6 = number of (5 foot) square your character can move this round.
    3) After your move (only after), you may make an attack. Melee if you end your movement next to a target, or range attack if not.
    4) Next !!

    You can only make 1 attack per round; regardless of the number of attack you "might" make. Yes, your pet cat "might" make 1 bite, and 4 claw attacks this round... But your only allowed to make 1 attack with one of them. So pick just 1! ===For every rule there is an exception, for every exception there is a rule === Would i make an exception for a octopus: NO only one head. Would i make an exception for a 8 armed 2 headed demon: No only one body that all arm are attached to. Would i make an exception for a 4 headed hydra: Yes, all 4 head have reach with long necks, each head can make its own bite attack independent of is body due to reach. Should any PC, NPC, or creature that might become even remotely a PC or DM character have more than 1 attack per round = NO.

    You can make only 1 Shield/Weapon Block with your Off hand only. Meet or beat the attacker attack roll, to Block the attack. If you miss, you take max damage instead ( 1d6 damage would become a 6 damage ) = That is the risk of choosing to make the block. If you your successful, then the weapon or shield can block up to 10 points of incoming damage from a Blunt/Piercing/Slashing attack. Any damage over 10 is carried over to first your armor and then you.

    Attack Roll = 1d20
    Player call, body shot, aimed shot, or called shoot = Body shot default if noting is called.

    1 = Total Miss
    1-4 = Miss
    5+ = Body shot = normal damage
    10+ = Aimed Shot = hands, arms, legs, head, etc. Normal Damage. If player aim for the hands, and hands do not have the armor normal protection glove/gauntlets on that character/creature, then armor is bypassed for that attack; with DM approval. Also, hand hit will drop item this round, hit a leg -1 to movement next round, hit the head and Dazed for 1 round.
    15+ = Called Shot = eye's, ear's, nose, mouth, fingers, internal organ like heart, lungs, kidneys. Basically, this is here because of the need to hit a beholder eye stocks, the missing scale of snmog dragon hide, and the need to stake a vampire in the heart. Two eyes, and your blind, two ear's and your deaf, lungs and you might have the wind knocked out of ya for 1d6 rounds or worse depending on DM. etc.

    Aim Shot 9 or below & Called Shot 14 or below = Is a miss. This is to encourage them not to be used unless they are needed. Less bookkeeping if they are not used, which as DM, i prefer.

    20 = Critical Hit = Base dice damage is doubled. This does not include Adventure class precision damage bonus.


    Damage by weapon size: cope and past chart got squished. Large plus sized amount have had there number reduced, for lower level damage.

    Base Damage by Size*
    Fine Dim. Tiny Small Med. Large Huge Garg. Col.
    Bite/Percing 1 1d2 1d3 1d4 1d6 1d8 1d10 1d12 2d10
    Claw/slashing - 1 1d2 1d3 1d4 1d6 1d8 1d10 2d8
    Gore 1 1d2 1d3 1d4 1d6 1d8 1d10 1d12 2d10
    Hoof, tentacle, wing - 1 1d2 1d3 1d4 1d6 1d8 1d10 2d8
    Pincers, tail slap 1 1d2 1d3 1d4 1d6 1d8 1d10 1d12 2d10
    Slam/blunt - 1 1d2 1d3 1d4 1d6 1d8 1d10 2d8
    Sting - 1 1d2 1d3 1d4 1d6 1d8 1d10 2d8
    Talons - 1 1d2 1d3 1d4 1d6 1d8 1d10 2d8
    Other - 1 1d2 1d3 1d4 1d6 1d8 1d10 2d8



    Armor has hit point, that buffer the damage that character take. Med-evil and modern armor is not full environmental, and does not protect against Acid, Fire/Cold, Sonic, Lighting, or Magic Force attacks. These effect just pass right throw the armor as if it was not there.

    Med-evil to modern armor = Protect vs Blunt/Piercing/Slashing
    Light = 10 Hit Points
    Medium = 20 Hit Points and -1 to movement roll
    Heavy = 30 Hit points and -2 to movement roll

    Advance/Environmental Armor = Same as Med-evil and Modern armor Plus

  • Subject, when they have there helmet on, Is protected from Gases attacks.
  • Subject, when they have there helmet on, Is protected from spell damage such as Acid, Fire/Cold, Sonic, Lighting, or Magic Force attacks. While the subject is protected, the armor is taking the damage.

    Light armor = extra plus 10 Hit points
    Medium armor = extra plus 20 Hit points
    Heavy = extra plus 30 hit points.

    All damage, regardless of type, is first taken from these extra hit point.
    Once the extra hit point is gone, then armor is no longer environmental, and function like med-evil to modern armor.

    Example: Jon is wearing a Heavy Space suit. It has 30 base armor hit point + 30 extra hit points. He get blasted by a 3rd level fire ball for 3 damage, then hit by a 1d6 sword for 5 damage, then shot in the arm for another 5 damage. He now has 30 base armor hit points + 17 extra hit points. (5+5+3= 13-30 = 17).


    Spells = No saving Throws, No Spell Resistance.

    Max spell damage is reduced: to Spell level per round. A 9th level spell, can only do a max of 9 points of damage per round. A 3rd level fireball, can only do a max of 3 point of damage per round.

    Some spell,

  • Require attack rolls = Called shot to brain to charm creature.
  • Some have shorter duration = Charm spell only last 1 hour (1st level spell), A 5th level spell could last 5 hours.
  • Some have a percentage chance based on level. 1st level entangle spell only has a 10% change of reducing movement per round. 4th level entangle type spell might have a 40% change of reducing movement per round.

    3rd level fireball = AoE = Hits all target in area. (Adventure class can roll a body shot to hit single target as center of blast, to take extra adventure class bonus damage to single target, if miss, then treat as normal AoE hit). All target take 3 points of Fire Damage. All target have a 30% change of catching on fire for 1d3 rounds, and suffering 1 point of fire damage each round they are on fire.

    1st level Charm = Called Shot Brain (DM, ask player were the target brain is located, :) if player said head, and creature brain is in its butt, spell fails). Roll a Called shot, 15+ to hit brain. If you make the attack roll, then the creature is charmed for 1 hour. Attacking creature or give creature suicide order break charm immediately. Creature treats the caster (and only the caster ) as his best friend (not family, not loved one, but as best friend). How the creature normal treats his best friends, the dynamic of why his best friend is surround by stranger or enemy, and "If" his new best friend can communicate a good reason what is going on, is up to the DM and Player role-playing. :)


    3 Classes

    Adventure class : 60% of NPC/Moster fall under this class. This is what most Warrior, Rogues, and other base class are. They easily use any weapon they get there hands on, and wear any armor they want; including any power armor they take skills in.

    Can wear any Armor

  • =Adventure class ability: Damage!! When making any kind of attack, the adventure can single out one target to be the center of the attack. This one target, if hit, take bonus damage equal to the Adventure Class level, for one round only. So a 5th level Adventure, could swing a sword and do +5 extra damage, throw a AOE grenade at one target as a body shot, and if they hit the single target will do +5 extra damage, if they miss then the target just takes normal AoE grenade damage.
  • =At 5th level: Movement: +1 to the Adventure personal combat movement roll.
    [*}=At 10th level: Movement extended: +10% to Adventure Personal Vehicle movement rate. It take 1 week of tinkering, to gain this movement rate, and the vehicle losses this bonus after one week, of not being under the Adventure care.
  • =At 15th level: ( Work in progress: not sure yet ).


    Mage Class = 20% fall under this class. Wizard, Sorcerers, some Druids, Witches and Witch Doctors.

    Can only cast spells while in Light Armor.

  • = Caster gain 1 spell per spell level. Spell gained can be any spell that is equal to his level or less. ( A 5th level mage, could learn a 5th level spell at 5th level ).
  • = Caster can at 2nd level, and each level there after, swap out any one spell he knows, for a new spell. The new spell, can be any spell that the character can cast.
  • = Caster can not select the same spell twice. Similar spell, yes, just as long as it is not the same spell.

    Casting spells:

    What is required for ANY casting: 8 to 10 full hour of sleep, depending on how much or good of sleep you got (see DM). After which you can cast spell for the next 15 hour, before needing more sleep.

    Quick Cast: The Mage can quick cast any spell he knows, once per day, as a melee attack action. =Point fire and shoot, no concentration check, no chance of interruption, does not matter if your on fire, in lava, getting spit on by a black dragon, you can quick cast your spell= Mage regain the Quick cast spell, after the full night of sleep.

    Slow Cast: The Mage can slow cast any spell he knows (even spell he has already Quick cast for the day). The Mage can even cast spell he does not know, from a spellbook or scroll with the spell. Slow Casting take 10 minutes per spell level of spell being cast. (5th level spell take 50 minutes, 9th level spell takes 90 minutes).


    Psionic = 20% fall under this class. Psionics, shamen, cleric, priest, mind mages.

    Can wear medium armor while casting spells.

    --cope and past from mage-- i did have a spell point system set up, but in the end, i changed my mind. Just more bookkeeping with spell points, and i did not feel like keeping track of them. The end result would have been the same, so why bother....

  • = Caster gain 1 spell per spell level. Spell gained can be any spell that is equal to his level or less. ( A 5th level mage, could learn a 5th level spell at 5th level ).
  • = Caster can at 2nd level, and each level there after, swap out any one spell he knows, for a new spell. The new spell, can be any spell that the character can cast.
  • = Caster can not select the same spell twice. Similar spell, yes, just as long as it is not the same spell.

    Casting spells:

    What is required for ANY casting: 8 to 10 full hour of sleep, depending on how much or good of sleep you got (see DM). After which you can cast spell for the next 15 hour, before needing more sleep.

    Quick Cast: The Mage can quick cast any spell he knows, once per day, as a melee attack action. =Point fire and shoot, no concentration check, no chance of interruption, does not matter if your on fire, in lava, getting spit on by a black dragon, you can quick cast your spell= Mage regain the Quick cast spell, after the full night of sleep.

    Slow Cast: The Mage can slow cast any spell he knows (even spell he has already Quick cast for the day). The Mage can even cast spell he does not know, from a spellbook or scroll with the spell. Slow Casting take 10 minutes per spell level of spell being cast. (5th level spell take 50 minutes, 9th level spell takes 90 minutes).


    Class Ability are based on class, so a 5th level Adventure / 3rd level mage, who cast a 3rd level fireball, would do 3 damage to all in AoE, but if he make the body shot, then he could do 3 + 5 damage to one single target at the center of the fireball spell.


    Over All world Change to Spells.

    Mage: Loses Summon Monster spells, create undead, Polmorph spells, and any spell that only effect a single target are change to AoE spells. All mage spell are Area of Effect spell, of some type, line, cones, spreads, bursts, etc. All Mage spell take effect 10 feet or more, from the mage.

    Psionic: Keep Summon Monster spell ( but only 1 monster summoned, and not under there control, and does not get sent back at end of spell ), Gain all Polmorph spells ( single target only), and all spell now can only effect a max of 1 target per casting. Psionic, also lose any spell that does direct Damage to target. The effective casting range of Psionic is 4 inch + 1 inch per level of caster.


Ya, done writing this :) bloody idea been rumming around in my head for months, glade to get it down. Still just a draft, but anyway, just ignore it if not to your taste. To other, hope if give you some idea's of your own, to work off of, or create your own system.

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I good DM, will usually ask for the wizard & cleric spell list at the being of the game.

Then throw in some opportunity for these spell to be useful to the group.
Sometime, they pick up on this, sometimes they don't and the spells are not used.

At least that how i do it, since old school, all caster use to work that way.

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Who every wants to live throw tonight encounter, be sure to bring enough food and soda-pop for everyone.

A well feed DM, is a Happy DM.
A happy DM, creates happy encounters
Happy encounter, result in happy PC
Happy PC, bring foods and drinks.

The great Circle of Life.

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Still miss the old days... when Paladin & Druid were prestige classes that you had to earn throw, word & deed of action, and could not start off with. If you could not play them correctly, then you were not allowed to have them in the first place.

For every 50 commoner, you might have one priest.
For every 10 Priest, you might have one Cleric
For every 100 clerics, you might have one paladin.

Some location might have a high number in one location, while in other location you might have almost none for the area.

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+2 enchantment bonus Master Work Longsword with Keed Edge and Frost.

32,000 + 315 gold = 32,315 gold Total Retail price

Assuming 25% of Base wealth for weapon = Can afford to buy weapon at 13th level = 140,000 starting gold.

16,000 + 315 gold = 16,315 gold Creation Cost

Assuming 25% of Base wealth for weapon = Can craft weapon at 11th level = 82,000 starting gold.

Minimum Caster level needed = 10th level for the Keen Edge ability = Highest (page 471 for keen) (page 468 caster level for weapons).

Spells needed: Chill Touch, Keen Edge.
Feats needed: Craft Magic Arms and Armor.

Slot: Held
Weight: 4 pounds

Base Damage (medium): 1d8
Enchantment Damage: + 2
Frost Damage (when activated): + 1d6
Enchanted Keen Edge Crit Range: 17-20/x2

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System Point system that i like.

1st level spell points = Prime ability modifier +1 (example: Wis 16 is +3 modifier for a total of 4 points at 1st level).

+1 point every level there after.

Each class has its own separate pool (for multi-classing).

Recovery of spell points
Sleep per hour = +1 points.
Meditation/No action allowed per hour = +2 points.


1st level spell costs = 1 point.
2nd level spell costs = 2 points.
3rd level spell costs = 3 points.
8th level spell costs = 8 points.
9th level spell costs = 9 points.


Difference between game play (( which i tend to like )).

As you go higher in level. You have to make a choose between casting lots of low spells every day, or only casting 1-2 high level spells per day. Noticed player tend to try to cast more low level spells in battle, which they could then recover from with meditation between battles. They tended to hold off on there higher level unless needed.

Example (Int 16 +3 mod)

1st level wizard = 4 point pool
5th level wizard = 8 point pool
10th level wizard = 13 point pool
15th level wizard = 18 point pool
20th level wizard = 23 point pool

15th level wizard = could cast 18 1st level spells, or 3 5th level spells and a 3rd level spell, or two 8th level spells and a 2nd level spells, or three 6th level spell for the day, or 6 3rd level spells.


With this system, the caster could cast a spell that he new (kind of like a sorcerer).

1st level = Modifier +1 (again 16 Cha = +3 +1 for level = 4 spells known)
2nd level and every level there after = +1 new spells
2nd level and every level there after = allowed to swap out any spell for a new spell that one could cast.

5th level = 8 spells known
10th level = 13 spells known
15th level = 18 spells known
20th level = 23 spells known.


Spell Book (rare) = caster provide the spell points = Book can be re-used. = Casting time is as spell + 5 rounds.

The book option was added, because some people like having spell books in game, although 3/4 of player did not use this option. Although i did have a Cleric use a prayer book, because the player like having the diversity of lots of non-combat spells at his fingertips... shurgs.


The main reason i like the system, was it work between game worlds easy... ( Was hopping between D&D, Rifts, Torg, and Vampire game settings at the time ).

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cibet44 you hit the nail right on the head there, great way to put it.

PS = Cibet44, when i cast fireball (normal), do i get a saving throw vs 2d4 blister damage (for half damage), and what saving throw would it be... Reflex or Fort ??

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Page 460 = PF = phb = Magic Item Descriptions = Price.

" This is the cost, in gold pieces, to purchase the item, if it is available for sale. Generally speaking, magic items can be sold by PCs for half this value. "

As DM, allow

Anywhere between 1/2 to full price. For most magic items. Depending on location, demand, and a lot on magic item function.

Arms & Armor usually for full price since anyone can use them, and there is great demand for them. Potion or Travel items also for full price.

Scrolls, wands, rods, staffs and odd wondrous items for 1/2 price.

Everything else, somewhere in between. Depending on luck.


Unless they are famous AND stolen = Then only about 5-20% of normal Price.

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PF phb = Page 549 = Magic item creation

"In addition, you cannot create spell-trigger and spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites."

PF phb = Page 460-461 = Magic item Descriptions = under requirements

"A spell prerequisite may be provided by a character who has prepared the spell (or who knows the spell, in the cast of a sorcerer or bard), or through the use of a spell completion or spell trigger item or a spell-like ability that produces the desired spell effect. For each day that passes in the creation process, the creator must expend one spell completion item or one charge from a spell trigger item if either of these objects is used to supply a prerequisite.
It is possible for more than one character to cooperate in the creation of an item, with each participant providing one or more of the prerequisites. In some cases, cooperation may even be necessary."


So i take this to mean that 2 caster working together, can make a spell-trigger or spell-completion device, as long as one of them meets the Prerequisite.

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Goa'uld are easy.

Note: Goa'uld is a Monster, and should be ran by DM as a villain. Otherwise the character should be a Tok'Ra, with the "Hunted" reaction from some source (goa'uld, church, etc).

Outside human host = See Viper = page 133 Bestiary = Change Poison bite to Dex damage. May invade immobile, unconscious, or sleeping target with a successful Coup-De-Grace bite attack around the neck. Roll Int, Wis, and Cha score with 2d6+6 each, for the Viper mental scores. Alignment: Any Evil. Average Life Span: 200 years. Immunity: Curses (does not apply to host body).

Goa'uld = Knowledge = " At 1st level, the Goa'uld can use any skill, even if the skill normally requires him to be trained. At 10th level, the Goa'uld considers all skills to be class skills. At 15th level, the Goa'uld can take 10 on any skill check, even if it is not normally allowed.

Inside humanoid host = The host is under the effects of a Dominate Person Spell, except the Goa'uld has full sensory input of the Host. Should the host make a successful will save, the host gains control of the body for 1d6 rounds, before Goa'uld automatically regain control; (Note = see Sarcophagus listed below).

The Host body also gains = Very Hardy Racial Trait = +6 racial bonus on saving throws against poison, disease, or fatigued checks. Plus the host body gains +6 extra hp from any natural healing. Should the Goa'uld be removed from the host, he suffers -6 hp and the bonus become a -6 penalty. The host also suffers 1d6 nonlethal damage each hour, unless a Break Enchantment followed by Remove Poison is cast apon the host.


While the Goa'uld is in the host body, the host can not gain exp, nor gain levels. In essence the host body is in a Traped state. The Goa'uld can use any skills, feats, or spells the host body has aquired up to this point.

The Goa'uld starts out as a 1st level character, and may choose any class. Then grows as normal for that class. Should the Goa'uld be separated from the host body at any future point. The host body does not retain any of the Goa'uld class or character level ability's, and has only partial-foggy-dreamlike memory of what happened to it when trapped.

Should the Goa'uld enter a new host, it will retain its own class and character levels. It would lose access to any abilities of its old host body, but would gain access to any of the new host abilities.


Magic items are Hard

Magic Item = Sarcophagus
Aura: Strong Conjuration (Healing) CL: 13
Slot: Casket* Cost: 329,192 gp Weight: 3000 pounds

Description: This magic Sarcophagus can be used 3 times per day, by stepping inside and closing the lid. The Sarcophagus can hold one Large creature or smaller. Those creatures inside receive the benefits of a Raise Dead, Regeneration, and Bestow Curse spell on them. The Bestow Curse effect is -6 to Wisdom score; this effect is not cumulative with any other Sarcophagus bestow curse to said ability score. Those inside, since they received a Raise Dead spell; also do not age for 1 day, during they day they used the Sarcophagus.

Construction Requirements: Craft Wondrous Item, Raise Dead, Regeneration, Bestow Curse; Cost: 289,596 gp


* = No Space Limitation, First let me say that i did not use this modifier due to the fact that one has to climb inside the Sarcophagus and that it weighs 3000 pounds. In its own way, it takes up a lot of space, and hard to transport.

Note 4 = If them is continuous or unlimited, not charge, determine cost as if it had 100 charge. If it has some daily limit, determine as if it had 50 charges. The Raise dead spell cost 5000 x 50 = 250,000 gold. This is counted as Extra Cost, and added separately to Craft cost and Base cost crafting totals.

Note 2 on Use-Activated = If a continuous item has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4. If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2, and if the duration is 10 minute/level, multiple the cost by 1.5. If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half.
====Raise Dead and Regeneration spells are instantaneous spells, which last greater than 24 hours. Bestow Curse is a Permanent effect which last greater than 24 hours. ====

Special = Charge per day = Divide by (5 divided by charges per day): All spell were based on 3 charges per day. This would become a 1.67 modifier.

Regenerate Spell, level 7 spell, 13 level min caster level
1) (7 x 13 x 2000) = 182,000
2) Special 1.67 = (182,000 divided by 1.67) = 108,982
3) Note 2 = (108,982 divided by 1/2) = 54,491

Raise Dead, level 5 spell, 9 level min caster level
1) (5 x 9 x 2000) = 90,000
2) Special 1.67 = (90,000 divided by 1.67) = 53,892
3 Note 2 = (53,892 divided by 1/2) = 26,946

Bestow Curse, level 3 spell, 5th level min caster level
1) (3 x 5 x 2000) = 30,000
2) Special 1.67 = (30,000 divided by 1.67) = 17,964
3) Note 2 = (17,964 divided by 1/2) = 8982

Then used Multiple Similar Abilities
1st = 100% = Regenerate spell = 54,491
2nd = 75% = Raise Dead (26,946 x 75%) = 20,210
3rd = 50% = Bestow Curse (8982 x 50%) = 4,491

Base Total = 79,192 + (note 4 of 250,000) = 329,192 Total
Creation Cost = 79,192 divide by 1/2 = 39,596 + (note 4 of 250,000) = 289,596 Total


Anyway that what i was figuring it at.

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Well want to keep the gods close to RAW, but then again do not care for the wheel idea, on were gods live, for all gods.

Was thinking about:

Garth the Gardener: God of Gardens, farmers, community, home, trade, parks, and sun.
Alignment: NG
Cleric Alignment: NG, CG, LG, or Neutral.
Domains: Community, Earth, Good, Plants, and Sun.
Symbol: Circle symbol, with Tree on one half, and sun over a rock on other half.
Favored Weapon: Scythe (scythe is old world lawnmower,look it up)
Deities Home located: The Gardens of Aden, located in the Deep Astral.
Worshipers: gardeners, farmers, commoners, fur trappers, bards, road builders.

Side Notes:
*)= Priest of Garth, while respecting nature, also want to change nature to better server the community. This means creating water channels for irrigation, clearing forests for farming, stone roads to transport farmer goods, stone walls to help separate lands, rid locale area of dangerous animals, and providing a save homestead.
*)= Priest of Garth, prefer crops that are from trees like apples, oranges, figs, nuts, pears, etc. Then prefer crops that are from bushes like blueberries, grapes, kiwi, etc. Then prefer crops that are planted every year like grains, cabbage, onions, etc. In other words, Perennials are preferred over Annuals plants.
*)= Places of worship range from small stone churches located in villages, towns, or near parks in large cities. Stone monoliths or stone obelisk are found in both towns or country side to denote time of worship of sun and seasons.
*)= Garth the Gardener, does not support the druid class. While to an outsider, one might think they would get along, there are fundamental differences in there world few. While druids want to preserve nature, priest of Garth want to change nature to better suit the community, while maintaining a balance of nature for humans. This balance does not extend to wild animal life, like crocodiles, wolves, tigers, bears, or other large dangerous predictors.
*)= Garth the Gardener, has many worshipers from all the other races and class that fall with in the good or neutral alignments. Although, more bards than paladins tend to be found than one would normal expect. Rangers are also commonly found associated with the church.

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Old Nekron wrote:

I have a friend who wants to run kingmaker and I am looking at a perhaps running a druid with a few levels of ranger. Any thoughts on such a build? Does the druid capstone with shape shapeshifting make such a difference assuming this character makes it to the end of the Path?

I am thinking some two weapon fighting + focusing on animal companion.
Not necessarily on optimization issue but just wanting some feedback.
Going with Sarenae as a diety, those Katepeshi like to trade in all kinds of places.

and then

roguerouge wrote:

Not going to be worth it. The lost caster levels are going to make casting 2nd level spells at 10th level pointless.

Just be one or the other. Druid, probably, is your better bet.

and i would agree with Roguerogue.

A 1 level dip would not be bad, to quality for something else latter on, but very rare does multi-classing help pure caster types.