So the GM gave me a Ring of Spell Knowledge II, as a Druid...


Advice


Now, before everyone goes on to the hating wagon, let me give a proper explanation.

Our Neutral party is currently 2nd level, delving in an underground place-thing with ants and imps and stuff. My Knowledge (Geography) revealed a crack in the floor that held a couple Magic Items and some gold; probably a hidden stash. One of them was a +1 Acid Scimitar, and the other was a Ring of Spell Knowledge II.

The GM decided to rule the ring to apply to all casters who have some sort of spontaneous casting ability (i.e. Spontaneously able to cast Inflict/Cure spells, Summon Nature's Ally, etc). Since our Magus and our Alchemist do not possess these abilities, the ring was given to me.

Truth be told, I never expected to get such a cool item to start with, and obviously this falls into the realm of houseruling. Additionally, I'm not high enough level to actually make use of the ring. However...

I need to configure what kind of spell I could want. Since I can select any Druid spell on the list when I prepare, I'll obviously want a spell that's not on the Druid list. But I'm not sure which one...

Granted, I can change it when I want, I'd rather try to get it right the first time, since I have to teach it to the ring. Divine casters don't need to mess around with Spellbooks, and I imagine a Scroll will not serve, because it will probably be expended if I try to teach it to the ring, meaning I have to revert to Wizard spells, most likely. (Or Magus Spells, since they are prepared casters also.)

Long story short: If you were a well-rounded Druid with access to any 1st level Arcane spell that a Wizard or Magus could cast, what would you pick?


Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

An obvious one would be Mage Armor if you're a Wildshape beat 'em up style Druid.

Vanish is another solid choice, to be upgraded to Invisibility next level when you can cast it. Very versatile spell you don't have access to otherwise.


Honestly, at 3rd level I'd go for a nice encounter-ending Color Spray. Enlarge Person would also be tempting.

Note that you could use it now to have be able to spontaneously cast a Prestidigitation spell from a 1st level slot, which might occasionally be useful.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Shield or mage armor would be your best choices.

True Strike is an option if you've got something to deliver with it.

Enlarge Person if you've got someone to make use of it (and you can share it with animal companion, I believe!)

Don't forget you can raid the paladin and cleric lists, as well.

==Aelryinth

Dark Archive

For 1st level I'd say maybe Divine Favour? For 2nd level maybe Invisibility or Mirror Image.


How did Knowledge(Geography) reveal a crack in the floor? I would think that would be Perception if anything.

Do you tend to be more of a caster druid, a melee druid, or a ranged druid? Do you have an AC or a domain?


Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:

How did Knowledge(Geography) reveal a crack in the floor? I would think that would be Perception if anything.

Do you tend to be more of a caster druid, a melee druid, or a ranged druid? Do you have an AC or a domain?

To be more precise, Perception check determined there was a crack in the floor. Geography check determined that it could be cleared out to make an opening (in other words, access to the magic items), though it would take time to do.

I'm sort of an all-around Druid. I've been in the front lines and did fairly well, I've used summons and some blast spells, though the Summons more than the blast spells. I chose the Fire domain.


Rynjin wrote:

Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

An obvious one would be Mage Armor if you're a Wildshape beat 'em up style Druid.

Vanish is another solid choice, to be upgraded to Invisibility next level when you can cast it. Very versatile spell you don't have access to otherwise.

I do plan to make use of Wildshape for some extra melee capability, probably a flying dinosaur from the Beastiary 4. Since I'm still using Padded Armor, it'll be a welcome bonus, but I'll have to head to town first to make use of it. As for Invisibility, that's a spell I probably don't really need to make use of.

@ AVR: Enlarge Person might be pretty good, but I'd rather not pin a big target on my head since I'm not exactly a tank. All I have is a Light Shield and Padded Armor, with +1 Dexterity. 13 AC isn't exactly tank-worthy; last time I charged in as a tank, I got hit 5 times via 2 full-attacks from Krenshars, and I went from 18 HP to -7 (I have 12 Constitution).

Color Spray seems pretty powerful to use. I'll certainly consider it.

@ Aelryinth: Shield would normally be a good option, but the duration for it isn't really worth it. The same goes for True Strike.

@ Helcack: I don't think the GM will let me scribe Divine spells into the ring; I'll need to configure with him to see if it's possible, but otherwise I won't have access to Divine spell lists.

@ All: Remember that the Ring of Spell Knowledge, outside of the GM allowing me to make use of it, otherwise only grants Arcane-type spells. It also says that if the spell is not on your list, it's counted as 1 level higher for storage and casting purposes (so it's treated as a 2nd level spell for the ring to store, and it takes a 2nd level slot to cast it). This also means that I can't learn spells like Invisibility, unless I decide to upgrade the Ring of Spell Knowledge to a Type III (which is not a bad idea, since the Druid spell list is meh).

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

A shield spell is a +4 AC bonus you can keep in wildshape form. That's HUGE. That it works against incorps and magic missiles is gravy.

Mage Armor can at least be subbed for with armor. So shield's duration may be short, but the buff is impressive.

I'm not sure if Enlarge Person will work on you if you are wildshaped. If it does, It means all your natural attacks are a size larger. If you are wildshaping, you are already a target, take the buff, have your pony-sized wolf take fight with you since he can share your buffs! (I may be mixing this up with summoner).

--

Arcane spells means you can basically grab spells off the Witch and Bard lists, too, you know. And depending on how lenient your DM is, sorc bloodline spells from other lists.

==Aelryinth

Grand Lodge

Shield and Mage Armor are the top 2 choices for long term.

Color Spray, in the short term, is the best spell you will ever be able to cast.

If you can get divine (or find an arcane source for it) Lead Blades is rather good. Enlarge Person too, however I prefer potions for that spell, due to the casting time.


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Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
How did Knowledge(Geography) reveal a crack in the floor? I would think that would be Perception if anything.

Shhh, anytime a different skill is used instead of perception is a good day.


Aelryinth wrote:

A shield spell is a +4 AC bonus you can keep in wildshape form. That's HUGE. That it works against incorps and magic missiles is gravy.

Mage Armor can at least be subbed for with armor. So shield's duration may be short, but the buff is impressive.

I'm not sure if Enlarge Person will work on you if you are wildshaped. If it does, It means all your natural attacks are a size larger. If you are wildshaping, you are already a target, take the buff, have your pony-sized wolf take fight with you since he can share your buffs! (I may be mixing this up with summoner).

--

Arcane spells means you can basically grab spells off the Witch and Bard lists, too, you know. And depending on how lenient your DM is, sorc bloodline spells from other lists.

==Aelryinth

I'm not saying the Shield spell is bad. By all means, it's very powerful. But its duration, especially for the lower levels, makes it very impractical to use unless we're able to get the jump on somebody.

Mage Armor can last longer, so if I'm down in a dungeon delving for one of my quests (which I am currently), I'll be able to make use of it and be a frontliner for basically the entire dungeon (because the Magus, with his 17 AC, while using Shield, is being a wuss).

Also, Enlarge Person does work on a Wildshaped character, because their type does not change from their class feature, so they still count as a Humanoid for the purposes of spells and effects reliant on that. Even so, you can just cast it before you Wildshape anyway, and still maintain the benefits.

I did forget that the Witch is also a prepared caster, thanks for the reminder, though I'm not sure what Witch spells I would want. Bard spells would certainly be good, but they are spontaneous casters, which means they don't have spellbooks I can copy from and Take 20 for (because my Spellcraft is currently very low).

---

I'm surprised nobody suggested Magic Missile; as a Druid who could use some damaging spell options, that would be really nice to have to throw in a pinch.

If it's relevant for anyone, I took the Menhir Savant archetype, so I have access to grant +1 Caster Level to up to 7 spells that I cast per day (at this level, it's basically all of them).


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Stick with Produce Flame for a damage spell. Magic Missile without any metamagics won't be doing too much in a pinch other than a tickle.


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:


Also, Enlarge Person does work on a Wildshaped character, because their type does not change from their class feature, so they still count as a Humanoid for the purposes of spells and effects reliant on that. Even so, you can just cast it before you Wildshape anyway, and still maintain the benefits.

CRB page 212 = under Transmutation polymorph entry. = You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you ( or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell.

In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.

...

The last line, is why enlarge person does not work on a wildshaped character.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:

A shield spell is a +4 AC bonus you can keep in wildshape form. That's HUGE. That it works against incorps and magic missiles is gravy.

Mage Armor can at least be subbed for with armor. So shield's duration may be short, but the buff is impressive.

I'm not sure if Enlarge Person will work on you if you are wildshaped. If it does, It means all your natural attacks are a size larger. If you are wildshaping, you are already a target, take the buff, have your pony-sized wolf take fight with you since he can share your buffs! (I may be mixing this up with summoner).

--

Arcane spells means you can basically grab spells off the Witch and Bard lists, too, you know. And depending on how lenient your DM is, sorc bloodline spells from other lists.

==Aelryinth

I'm not saying the Shield spell is bad. By all means, it's very powerful. But its duration, especially for the lower levels, makes it very impractical to use unless we're able to get the jump on somebody.

Mage Armor can last longer, so if I'm down in a dungeon delving for one of my quests (which I am currently), I'll be able to make use of it and be a frontliner for basically the entire dungeon (because the Magus, with his 17 AC, while using Shield, is being a wuss).

Also, Enlarge Person does work on a Wildshaped character, because their type does not change from their class feature, so they still count as a Humanoid for the purposes of spells and effects reliant on that. Even so, you can just cast it before you Wildshape anyway, and still maintain the benefits.

I did forget that the Witch is also a prepared caster, thanks for the reminder, though I'm not sure what Witch spells I would want. Bard spells would certainly be good, but they are spontaneous casters, which means they don't have spellbooks I can copy from and Take 20 for (because my Spellcraft is currently very low).

---

I'm surprised nobody suggested Magic Missile; as a Druid who could use some damaging spell options, that would be...

Look at the ring. You only need a SCROLL of a bardic spell you want...just paste it in your spellbook. It costs more then copying, but it is basically the same thing.

Even better, you could hire a bard to cast the spell you want, put it into your Ring just by WATCHING it, and then transfer it to a scroll or your spellbook yourself!

The Ring is VERY flexible in how it lets you learn a spell. Basically, any time you see a new useful spell, you should try to learn it with the Ring and then copy it down.

==Aelryinth


I wouldn't suggest magic missile because it's level one caster level. That's not good.

Basically it's you're willing to waste a round for 1d4 plus 1, you should waste that round casting shield for a 4 ac and total immunity to that very spell.

Grand Lodge

If you really want Magic Missile, there is a Staff that gives you an At Will CL 3 Magic Missile. All Day, Every Day. Staff of the Entwined Serpent.


Cavall wrote:

I wouldn't suggest magic missile because it's level one caster level. That's not good.

Basically it's you're willing to waste a round for 1d4 plus 1, you should waste that round casting shield for a 4 ac and total immunity to that very spell.

The spell stored still scales based off of my own caster level. The ring treats the spell as if it's on my list of spells that I can memorize, which means I cast it as if it's my own spell. Since it's a 2nd level spell for me, it becomes a minimum of CL 3, which makes it 2D4+2. And that's only going to go up, to a max of 5D4+5 (actually, 7D4+7 if you want to Intensify it). And I can memorize multiples of these in the later levels, when I won't have a whole lot of use for 2nd level spell slots.

Shield doesn't upscale, and by the time I get access to Wild property equipment, it makes spells like Shield obsolete. I'm otherwise still able to throw out Magic Missiles, when 80% of my spells are Fire-based, and ~50% of every encounter in the game has Fire Resistances.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

IT's not worth the spell slot, trust us.

You're not a spontaneous caster, and Intensified Magic Missile is not Magic Missile. You can't apply metmagic to it.

Technically, what you should be able to do with it, since your DM is being nice, is trash your primary spells to it and cast it instead of casting a Summons.

IT should not be a prepared spell on your list. It's Metamagic with no enhancement. Since you don't have the ability to apply metamagic on the fly like a Spon caster, you can't 'memorize' a better version of the spell (although I suppose you could use the rod).

5d4+5 at level 9 is not worth spending an action on unless you are desperate. Shield, however, lets you use a 2h weapon and get +4 AC, and get shield AC in a form without limbs...AND I believe you can share it with your Animal Companion (which I think you keep forgetting). Ditto mage armor.

So, I think it depends on exactly how your very generous DM is letting you play the spell. Again, it's not a spell you prepare, per se...it's a spell you cast spontaneously, like your Summons.

==Aelryinth


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

I need to configure what kind of spell I could want. Since I can select any Druid spell on the list when I prepare, I'll obviously want a spell that's not on the Druid list. But I'm not sure which one...

Granted, I can change it when I want, I'd rather try to get it right the first time, since I have to teach it to the ring. Divine casters don't need to mess around with Spellbooks, and I imagine a Scroll will not serve, because it will probably be expended if I try to teach it to the ring, meaning I have to revert to Wizard spells, most likely. (Or Magus Spells, since they are prepared casters also.)

The scroll will not be expended.

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

Long story short: If you were a well-rounded Druid with access to any 1st level Arcane spell that a Wizard or Magus could cast, what would you pick?

Rynjin wrote:

Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

An obvious one would be Mage Armor if you're a Wildshape beat 'em up style Druid.

Vanish is another solid choice, to be upgraded to Invisibility next level when you can cast it. Very versatile spell you don't have access to otherwise.

I do plan to make use of Wildshape for some extra melee capability, probably a flying dinosaur from the Beastiary 4. Since I'm still using Padded Armor, it'll be a welcome bonus, but I'll have to head to town first to make use of it. As for Invisibility, that's a spell I probably don't really need to make use of.

@ AVR: Enlarge Person might be pretty good, but I'd rather not pin a big target on my head since I'm not exactly a tank. All I have is a Light Shield and Padded Armor, with +1 Dexterity. 13 AC isn't exactly tank-worthy; last time I charged in as a tank, I got hit 5 times via 2 full-attacks from Krenshars, and I went from 18 HP to -7 (I have 12 Constitution).

Color Spray seems pretty powerful to use. I'll certainly consider it.

@ Aelryinth: Shield would normally be a good option, but the duration for it isn't really worth it. The same goes for True Strike.

@ Helcack: I don't think the GM will let me scribe Divine spells into the ring; I'll need to configure with him to see if it's possible, but otherwise I won't have access to Divine spell lists.

While RAI is probably arcane only, RAW allows divine. And divine spells would not incur the off-list penalty. Definitely get GM approval here.

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
@ All: Remember that the Ring of Spell Knowledge, outside of the GM allowing me to make use of it, otherwise only grants Arcane-type spells. It also says that if the spell is not on your list, it's counted as 1 level higher for storage and casting purposes (so it's treated as a 2nd level spell for the ring to store, and it takes a 2nd level slot to cast it). This also means that I can't learn spells like Invisibility, unless I decide to upgrade the Ring of Spell Knowledge to a Type III (which is not a bad idea, since the Druid spell list is meh).

Not on your list incurs the penalty for arcane spells only.

You can grab off-list arcane spells of 0th, and 1st level. Grabbing on-list lets you spontaneously cast that spell.

You can use the Magus' spellbook to load the ring. If your party captures and enemy caster's spellbook, claim it and use it to load your ring.

I don't see anything that states you cannot retry the skill check to teach the ring.

Bards, Summoner, Bloodrager, Magus, and Witches have arcane spells.

2nd level druid spells of interest:
Aggressive Thundercloud is a good controll and damage spell.
Barkskin is your armor spell at 10m/l.
Binding Earth is a good controll and damage spell.
Cloud of Seasickness is both controll and debuff.
Euphoric Cloud is both controll and debuff.
Flaming Sphere is a good damage spell.
Ice Slick is like Grease with some damage.
Iron Skin stacks with Shield & lasts as long.
Sickening Entanglement looks like a good debuff.
Stone call is a great AoE spell.

While the Adhesive Spittle is a nice spell, I think Tanglefoot Arrows are better. Sure they likely make their save. They are still debuffed. At 20gp each, they are expensive at low level, but half speed & -2 BAB & -4 Dex & Concentration checks for 2d4 rounds on a save is a very nice debuff.

/cevah


Aelryinth wrote:

IT's not worth the spell slot, trust us.

You're not a spontaneous caster, and Intensified Magic Missile is not Magic Missile. You can't apply metmagic to it.

Technically, what you should be able to do with it, since your DM is being nice, is trash your primary spells to it and cast it instead of casting a Summons.

IT should not be a prepared spell on your list. It's Metamagic with no enhancement. Since you don't have the ability to apply metamagic on the fly like a Spon caster, you can't 'memorize' a better version of the spell (although I suppose you could use the rod).

5d4+5 at level 9 is not worth spending an action on unless you are desperate. Shield, however, lets you use a 2h weapon and get +4 AC, and get shield AC in a form without limbs...AND I believe you can share it with your Animal Companion (which I think you keep forgetting). Ditto mage armor.

So, I think it depends on exactly how your very generous DM is letting you play the spell. Again, it's not a spell you prepare, per se...it's a spell you cast spontaneously, like your Summons.

==Aelryinth

I think it's high time we actually look at the item description to see what it actually entails.

Ring of Spell Knowledge wrote:

This ring comes in four types: ring of spell knowledge I, ring of spell knowledge II, ring of spell knowledge III, and ring of spell knowledge IV. All of them are useful only to spontaneous arcane spellcasters spellcasters with spontaneous casting abilities.

Through study, the wearer can gain the knowledge of a single spell in addition to those allotted by her class and level. A ring of spell knowledge I can hold 1st-level spells only, a ring of spell knowledge II 1st- or 2nd-level spells, a ring of spell knowledge III spells of 3rd level or lower, and a ring of spell knowledge IV up to 4th-level spells.

A ring of spell knowledge is only a storage space; the wearer must still encounter a written, active, or cast version of the spell and succeed at a DC 20 Spellcraft check to teach the spell to the ring. Thereafter, the arcane spellcaster may cast the spell as though she knew the spell and it appeared on her class’ spell list.

Arcane spells that do not appear on the wearer’s class list are treated as one level higher for all purposes (storage and casting).

So I only adjusted the factor that the GM allows the ring to work with casters who have Spontaneous casting abilities (i.e. Summons and Cure/Inflict spells for Druids and Clerics). Everything else is by the book.

With review, the spell does count as if I have it in my spell list to choose from, which means I cast it as if it were my own spell. It also doesn't specify that the spell has to be for your spontaneous casting class; disregarding the GM's ruling for the moment, this means if I were a Sorcerer X/Wizard Y, I could actually use this ring for a Wizard spell, since I am still a spontaneous caster. So if I decided to prepare that with a Metamagic feat, then I can do so and not run into a snafu.

Of course, I'm sure that's cheesing, and not intended by the item, but since the GM isn't running the item normally, it's certainly a possibility here.

Additionally, it appears I was wrong with it not allowing Divine spells (there's no specification for it being Arcane spells only to be stored into the spell), and that it's only the Arcane equivalents not on the spellcaster's list that increase the spell level, not Divine spells, per RAW. So this means I can learn either 1st or 2nd level Divine spells, or 1st level Arcane spells. Which makes Divine Favor fair game, and I freaking love that spell, it's probably my most favorite 1st level spell in the game, slightly beating out Magic Missile.

Lastly, I chose the Fire Domain; I don't have an Animal Companion, so there's no need to consider the benefits it could give an Animal Companion. Of course, if there was a way to grant this spell to my Summons, maybe through a feat, then it's certainly something to consider.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

You're reading it wrong.

You cast it as if it was on your list...that means at your caster level.

That doesn't mean you can PREPARE IT. Druids prepare spells by prayer and Meditation. You gain access to a spell in the ring by shoving it in there, NOT by preparing it.

It's made for spontaneous casters. It's already in your memory as a spontaneous spell, exactly like your Summons!

The only way you can use it is the same way you cast spontaneously ...ditch another spell to it, and cast it that way.

You are not a spontaneous caster, and you do not have the ability to apply metamagic on the fly.

Thus, because you cannot prepare the spell, you can't 'memorize' an Intensified Magic Missile (or an Extended Mage Armor, or what not) and because you are not a spontaneous caster, you cannot apply metamagic on the fly to the spell.

Lastly, ASK YOUR DM about the Divine spells thing. As it stands, the Ring was only made to use Arcane spells, and be available only to Arcane classes.

If he's opening it up to Divine/Druid spells, that's his call. As the default, it's arcane spells only, from the looks of things.

So get clarification, don't just presume. He's already being extremely generous with you.
====================
Also, I believe there's a feat you can take that will get you an Animal Companion again, if you are so inclined.

==Aelryinth

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