Just a quick pop in to say a couple of things about dropping the campaign.
@Mordred: Your posting pace didn't have anything to do with it. God knows our ROTRL campaign is slower for example. I'm not really bothered by that sort of thing nearly as much as I was back when I started PbP.
You're right about the character issues though. Nissim has always been difficult for me to get a feel for, and know what to do with. Actually I don't think it's Nissim in particular as much as a lack of interest in full arcane casters on my part. I just don't grok them.
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So anyway, I didn't choose against this campaign so much as I chose for others. There were a few considerations there.
First, duplicate campaigns. If I'm playing the same AP more than once, one of them would be dropped. I had 2 each of Hell's Rebels and ROTRL.
Second, how integrated into the character group is the character? Would dropping it really screw up what the other players are doing and/or bust the group in some way beyond the typical need to find a replacement? I can say that is true of 3 APs where a lot of work has been put into relationships and shared history that really screws some other players if I drop.
The ROTRL Modred and I are in doesn't count among those 3, my character is replaceable in it, but I have made a personal vow to finish ROTRL (the campaign is my 4th shot at it) and I will never quit it.
I'm not dissatisfied with any of the campaigns I've been playing. I'm fairly easy to please I suppose. But due to my character in this one, and the fact he can disappear with only a few slight ripples in the game to mark the departure compared to the other one, I decided to keep the other. (It's also the one I started first of the two).
Anyway, I just wanted to make it as clear as I can that I haven't been unhappy at all with this campaign, and it isn't evidence of any flaws with it. I've enjoyed it and liked playing with all of you. I simply have to cut back due to time and had to make decisions based on something.
I'm very sorry for the long delay in posting everyone.
Some things have changed, mostly me moving to a new job, and I just don't have the time I used to for PbP. It's nothing that will be changing in the foreseeable future either, so I'm going to have to cut back on the number of campaigns I'm playing in. Right now I'm a player in 10 campaigns and it's not sustainable. I figure I need to drop four, and possibly five, campaigns given my new time constraints.
I'm going to be dropping this one, partially because it's a duplicate (I'm playing Hell's Rebels twice right now), and partially because I believe it will not be nearly so disruptive for me to leave this campaign compared to some of the others. You guys are well set up, and could probably not even bother with recruiting a new player to continue on just fine.
I'm sorry I have to bail out, it's been fun and I've enjoyed playing with you all. Good luck!
Oh sure, I was just hoping the warehouse was a little more porous in terms of what the people who spend the day around it might know. Those weren't particularly good rolls either.
Yes, that's the idea with Lugo, with the understanding he's discreet and doesn't prance up to greet customers. It wouldn't be good optics for a place that sells medicines.
Nissim is a little startled to find the girl suddenly right behid him, but not very surprised. He knows he can be prone to blocking out the obvious around him when he's concentrating.
"Good Afternoon Kesin, how are you today? Have your first few days here been good ones? Found a place to live yet?"
Walking on toward his family's shop, Nissim thinks about what he learned from his spells. It was disappointing, mostly the older history of the place, which he could find no way to put to use. The complete lack of more recent information told him something but knowing the place and its purpose were very carefully and successfully concealed helped little.
He did have some ideas for redirecting his efforts the next day though. This would especially be so if he could try when a delivery of crates was underway. If, that is they were still happening.
Was there any indication of whether shipments in are still happening, or are now completed?
At the shop Nissim apologizes for his recent absences. Liliana (I think the idea was to have Lily as a possible stand-in if needed, and that a specific name was used, but I didn't do digging for it. If so, just substitute it.) is demanding of his time he admitted to his parents. But he certainly did not object, and the shop can operate unhindered without his constant presence.
"I will have a word with Kesin." He tells them. "I far as I know, only a couple of days back, she had no place of her own. It may be she is having trouble finding something. I will make it clear to her she must do so quickly."
Nissim integrates himself back into the routine of the shop. Preparing orders and mixing medicines. When an opportunity arises, he will also talk to Kesin.
Nissim will leave with Boros (I'm assuming he going to the warehouse the next morning). If Boros can spare him a couple of minutes, he will find an out of the way place in an alley or such. He will cast i]Heightened Awareness[/i] and follow it with Ears of the City. When the spell has run its course 3 Rounds, Nissim will fill Boros in on anything that seems like it could be helpful to him.
1. If something goes wrong we have our backs to the river, we sort of trap ourselves.
2. Where do we land the boat? Looking at the map, and if I understand the situation correctly, we'd need to go ashore within the city walls and without exiting the mouth of the river. If we had time to follow and unblock the tunnel under the cafe (assuming it goes anywhere useful) we could consider going the whole way by boat. But we don't.
3. The boat needs to be of a size to fit the prisoners, and we don't know how many there are.
Alright, here's a more detailed plan including a third day.
First, on each of the days Nissim will find a secure location near the warehouse, ideally with someone accompanying him. He will cast Heighned Awareness followed by Ears of the City to do some remote information gathering. His focuses each time will be: Day 1 General information about the warehouse. Day 2 Prisoners, total number, condition, location, and trying to locate Aldus's friend. Day 3 Guards and security, number there, locations, patrols, routines.
He can do these checks fairly quickly. The total time involved would be 3 rounds spell duration. But during that time he is blind and deaf, thus why having someone with him is a good idea.
Also after Day 1 he will share what he's found out with the others and vice versa, which might cause him to adjust what he's focusing on in subsequent days.
Otherwise:
Day 1: After the remote check in the morning, (I"m assuming everyone is spending the night at the cafe?) he will go back home for the day. Shop work day.
Day 2: Return to under the cafe to help Rexus. Bring his portable alchemy lab with him and relocate it to under the cafe. Do the remote check some time in the middle of the day.
Day 3: Help Varuzhan with making Scent Cloak or other alchemical stuff. He can either make more himself or aid Varuzhan depending on what's best. Do the remote check in the evening.
I've never done any crafting before, and the rules are kind of dense. It seems to me, and who knows if I'm actually understanding the rules correctly, that making pretty much anything takes a week? Even for a single dose of Scent Cloak or a single flask of Alchemist Fire. Seems crazy. But whatever, I'll just follow rather than lead on the item creation.
I was thinking about a boat escape until it turned out we don't have to cross the river. Having the bridge as a chokepoint during the escape would be very bad.
Hm, so it's located in the area where places are on the map are marked with Y's? How far away from the cafe is that?
And exactly how locked down is water travel? Is there no boat traffic at all? Is it like no travel into and out of Kintargo? Or no travel even from one part of Kintargo to another?
There! The gameplay post is finally up! I'm not sure why it had become such a thing for me but it had. Wasn't nearly so difficult to finish as I'd imagined it would be. I'm sure I've missed a couple of things at least which I should have mentioned but whatever. There's always later.
In the end I went with a Pearl of Power and a Preserving Flask both for 1st level of course.
On the way back upstairs Nissim avoids anything to do with the great lizard in the basement. He doesn't hold out high hopes for anything constructive to come out of keeping it, and he certainly doesn't want to expend his efforts in that direction.
He tells Rexus he will be able to help with cleaning up and preparing the area downstairs, but not until the day after tomorrow. The shop has a new employee he has sponsored. After being away for an entire day he needs to spend one at work, making sure she is settling into her role, and that things are running smoothy. Afterward he will return here. Nissim is particularly keen to see the books in the library are preserved and catalogued.
"There is far too much nefarious summoning going on in Kintargo for my comfort, and not all of it is infernal. We should gather all the knowledge we can to counter it, even if it applies to the demonic. I have not forgotten the tentacled thing in the park. Whatever it was, it did not seem to be a minion of Hell."
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At the dinner Nissim listens to what Rexus reveals about the documents with great interest. He is not one to be comfortable to permanent unknowns, and finding out about the stables past, as well as, some of the history of the Silver Ravens soothes his mind. Although it does also raise new questions.
"Certainly do ask for my assistance with the documents if it would be helpful Rexus. Even if it is simply sorting and organizing the documents I will lend a hand."
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Nissim is the last to open his package. As he does so Rexus comments. "In your case NIssim, the choices were easy. Things that allow you to do more of what you do."
Inside Nissim finds a pearl and a metal flask. Rexus continues: the pearl will assist you in recalling a spell already cast. The flask will hold a formulae, preserving it indefinitely until you use it."
Nissim smiles as he looks the items over. "Thank you Rexus. I must admit I tend toward indecision when casting, always wondering if the moment is the best time to employ magic, when a greater need for it could arise in the future. This will help ease those worries."
@Mordred: I was asking if the spells were usable from the cloak, not movable to spell list. Since it simply says "the wearer" it was probably a silly question, but I haven't used magic items all that much in Pathfinder since I've rarely played about about 5th level. Just wanted to make sure before I considered it more. Specifically I'm looking at the transmutation version. 2 of the best cantrips, Prestidigitation and Mage Hand, neither of which are on the witch list. Nissim is jealous of Miranda's Prestidigitation prowess. :p
Expeditious Retreat is a nice pick up as well, and 1/day is probably just about right for it. But unless Varuzhan would like Enlarge cast on him, that one would -probably be wasted. It's a neat cloak, but I'm not sure it's a better buy than the plain jane Cloak of Resistance & Pearl of Power set. Boots of the Cat & Pearl of Power looks good too. Who likes dying from stupid falls?
@Lily: Ah, I didn't realize we had a wand of CLW. Never mind.
@Miranda: Just take the Pearl. I may pick one up as I've mentioned above. I don't really see trying to pass the pearl back and forth in combat, which is where it would likely come up, as being very practical. And if it was needed for some reason we could do it anyway.
Aligned healing is fine. No preference on the flavor. I do notice that Infernal healing mentions several types of damage it can't heal, caused by Good Aligned, etc. This is not mentioned in the Celestial Healing description, but I assume there is parity there? If so Infernal would seem to be better?
@Lily: I sympathize. My life has gotten a bit busier, but mostly I've put off posting my next game thread because It'll need to cover several subjects and between putting it off because of that and forgetting that I really need to get it done, it keeps not happening.
Hm, I haven't finished looking around yet, but so far I haven't found anything that beats a Cloak of Resistance and Pearl of Power 1st. Really boring but you just can't argue with what you're getting.
I will ask about one thing though. Can a witch use a Cloak of the Hedge Wizard to cast the spells that aren't on the witch list?
Also, what would you all say to pitching in any leftover gold on your 2 magic items to pick up a wand of CLW? It would require 125 from each of us.
I'm also in the campaign in question (if you decide to read through what happened my character is Rojava) and I have to say I've never seen anyone react to something that really was minor like they did.
To my mind, campaigns have some improvisational (as in theater) qualities. If a new character is introduced into an ongoing scene, there are some mutual responsibilities. The current characters have to acknowledge the new character and bring them into the scene. The new character has to find ways to incorporate his/herself into the scene. Both must be done without breaking the scene, so what has happened and is currently happening are the materials with which it's done.
We had to react in ways that were rational given the scene so far.
1. We have been tangling with a doppleganger who has so far appeared as four females known to us.
2. We know the doppleganger is close at hand
3. We are in combat
4. A female that some of the characters know from several years previously suddenly shows up behind us. We have no reason to believe this person is anywhere near the town we're in (under). We are in a place where nobody should just randomly or casually be.
So we rationally concluded it was probable the character was the doppledanger again. One PC pointed his crossbow at her and challenged her. The entire party figured she was possibly an imposter.
The new PC just said "nope, not having it." We explained why, made it clear the new character was not actually in danger of attack, and offered suggestions for how to deal with the situation, etc. The new character in a nutshell called us psychopaths and refused to work with us at all.
That includes apparently not taking the time to read though any of the previous campaign at all. It does seem they were taken by surprise by our response to them but they shouldn't have been with a little basic prep. Personally I can't imagine not doing that.
I think we met our obligations, the new character refused to meet theirs. So it's different than the "fight over pushed into a lake" scenario given by Lily. There wasn't actually going to be a fight. To use the improve analogy again, the new character declined the party's offer, and insisted instead on a new scene.
Nissim doesn't speak dwarven, but while we're on the subject of languages I'll mention one of Nissim's traits. I have a habit of forgetting some of my characters' abilities that don't come up much, so if it does and I do, hopefully one of you may remember.
Self-Taught Scholar Being self-taught has made it necessary for you to scour all documentation you can get your hands on. Benefits: You gain a +1 trait bonus on Linguistics checks to decipher unfamiliar languages, and Linguistics is always a class skill for you. In addition, you gain a +1 trait bonus on Spellcraft checks made to decipher the writing on a scroll.
I only had a quick minute to search right now and couldn't find it in the threads, but we were all given the Nemesis story feat by Mordred a while back. Somewhere around the time we came out of the sewers form the stable I think it was.
It gives a second hit point or skill point per level before completion.
Skills +4 Class, +4 INT, +1 Skilled, +2 Background, +1 Nemesis Feat We're using that right? = 12 Skill Points.
+1 Point to: Bluff, Diplomacy, K Arcana, K Local, K Nature, Linguistics, Perception, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Craft (Alchemy), Profession (Apothecary), Stealth.
New Language: Varisian? Still thinking on it.
I'm split between Stealth and Loyalty, I can see Nissim liking both options. Looks like Loyalty is winning in votes and that's fine with me.
So here's a question for you all. I've been wondering whether Nissim is a bit offensively weak. Witches can have problems against mindless, animals, etc. and our recent encounters haven't been kind to him in that way. But still...
So, looking at 2nd level spells I'm taking Vomit Swarm because you get to vomit a friggin' swarm of spiders and control them! Of course it's a spell that is good against a wider range of opponents, and could be difficult for them to counter, but you vomit a friggin' swarm of spiders! Nothing else matters.
But the second spell. I've narrowed it down to three. Which sounds like the best choice?
Anonymous Interaction: Great for talking to people but remaining unidentifiable. Great spying and info gathering utility.
Glitterdust: The classic. Area blindness and bye bye invisibility.
Lipstitch: Good against enemy casters. We haven't seen much of that yet, but you know they're out there.
1. Without knowing exactly what high versus medium will mean, I'd say I'm in favor of high. One of the big attraction of Hell's Rebels for me is the idea of having an actual rebellion, not just the party versus all Kintargo's oppressors. Also I think it would be easier to start high and ratchet back some if we find ourselves unhappily multiple spreadsheets into the weeds doing it. Going from lower to higher is probably not as likely if we're not happy with the skimpiness of a lower detail scenario.
2. I'll try to get the new level finished tonight, but if I don't it will probably be the weekend before I can do it. I've a couple of busy days coming up.
3. Sounds good. Probably can manage a post within the next couple of days.
As for particular roles Nissim could take, he could do well in an information gathering and/or counterespionage role. Spymaster type stuff dealing with security going by the roles given in the players guide. He can do a lot of remote surveillance-type stuff through divination spells.
One thing from a more RP perspective is Nissim acting as recruiter using his connections among the small business owners and craftspeople. I haven't looked at the player's guide in a while now but I think I remember a mention of getting donations from businesses and such for the rebellion.
There is some overlap in some of options for Lily and Nissim, which isn't surprising since both archetypes came out of Heroes of the Streets so some coordination might be in order there. For example, her "Eyes of the Streets" revelation, Nissim will get Arcane Eye as a 4th level spell. So if there are others that look good that revelation is one you could skip. On the other hand, Nissim wouldn't be able to use it until 7th level, which might be longer than we want to wait. Aside from that spell Nissim will also get access to Insect Scouts, Insect Spies, Riversight and a couple more weird divination spells good for recon and keeping tabs on stuff. I guess he's gonna get friendly with vermin. :)
Nissim also has Craft Potion, but that's not one of the heavy-hitter craft abilities.
Using the witch spell list for wands would be amusing. It's an odd spell list Some really great stuff, but not many spells that are typically used in wands. I like it. One thing is Cure line of spells is on the witch list so Lily wouldn't need to take those spells just for wand making if she wasn't planning on it otherwise.
Spirit Ridden is a very cool feat I'd never come across before. I might consider it for Nissim as well!
It really does look like Lily is far better positioned to take the role of a charismatic leader if we have one. Nissim is very much a background guy.
"I can do the same type of work as you on the canvas" Nissim mentions to Miranda. "Both of us together can cut the time involved in half."
"Yes, this has been enough time in the water for me. We won't be clearing that passageway anytime soon regardless of whether it can be done or not. I think it's time to move on to other matters now. We should start thinking about what to do for the warehouse prisoners? That will take some preparation."
Nissim swishes through the water a little closer to the cave-in. Moving about to peer at it from different angles he mutter "It might be possible to get some idea about how stable it is. What risk would be involved in disturbing it."
On Aldous as bearer of bad news - I don't think he's the right choice. He's got an insane diplomacy mod, but I plan on only using it when he's making an argument, or in some sort of "professional" capacity. Otherwise, the barrister is decidedly not a people person, and this is how his Cha 8 will come in.
Basically, in matters of logic, argument, and expertise, Aldous = high charisma. In matters of etiquette, sympathy, or empathy, Aldous is not the person you want speaking for you. I think Lily, with perhaps a backup from Nissim, who has better grasp of social niceties, is probably the better bet.
Not to say that I wouldn't have fun putting Aldous in that situation!
Nissim can do it instead sure. But it was the legal expertise that Aldous had that I figured should be the factor that matters most. I don't see his role in it as being about "people person" stuff so much as scaring the crap out of them by telling them how, in loving detail, the authorities and legal system, are going to be a potentially dangerous morass that could entangle and swallow them rather than serve their needs or justice.
"Lily is right. The girl's parents need to know what happened. It's simply indecent to leave them never knowing. But yes, we do need to protect ourselves and this place. I think both can be done."
Nissim pauses to take off his spectacles and begins checking them for acid damage.
"The parents would need to be spared few if any details. Their questions would need to be answered to the extent they would not seek to have the matter further investigated. The facts about the summoned demon should be enough to give them pause about going to any authorities."
"Perhaps Lily and Aldous should be the ones to contact them. Lily has a connection to the school, and so, indirectly, a connection to the parents. Aldous would be best at carefully explaining to them the... difficulties, that could arise for them if the authorities were made aware. Certainly the current government would frown on upon a case of multiple deaths with a summoned demon at the center. Its interest would likely center on that fact rather than the deaths. I doubt any of the family members would want to be caught in that web."
"We can arrange for the bodies to be returned to them if they wish it. If they absolutely insist, they could even be brought to see this room. Those things would only add to their understanding of why these events must be kept buried."
"As for explaining our role, that is simple. We were engaged by the Lauria to investigate disturbing noises in the sub-basement, and stumbled upon everything here quite by accident. It's not even far from the truth."
"That could work, yes. I like the idea" Nissim says, nodding at Aldous's idea.
"Certainly the best way to insure this area isn't found by someone on the other side of the secret door is to claim the room ourselves. It could be useful to have the place, especially given the premium placed on privacy by the staff."
When Nissim hears the grim story behind the three bodies in the room he decides to leave the books and papers in place instead of removing them. It seems the chapter is mostly closed, especially if they will not be rising again.
"To be sure there is power to be had in summoning. But I cannot understand taking the risks that come with it."
"There seems to be little gained from keeping the mail. Perhaps it could be read and resealed, then placed back where it was. There must surely be wax and a seal in the apartment."
I've been thinking the same thing, but there are two questions first. Will the bombs fit easily between the bars? Will the bombs cause concussive force that will clear away the smoke?
Nissim uses the pause to drink down the extract he holds to ease the pain and repair his face from the caustic spittle.
CLW: 1d8 + 2 ⇒ (1) + 2 = 3
It helps some, enough for him to ignore the pain to think.
"It should be cold iron which best affects them since they are the result of a demonic pact. I do not know though if we can keep them from regenerating and reanimating while their creator lives."
"Perhaps they can be contained though. If their remains could be boxed or shut away now, confined like the one in the cage, they would lack the strength to break free when returned."
Nissim sweeps up all the contents of the desk and carries it out to Lily, then goes back to begin moving the books out as well.
"Most important though, we must know who bound them here. Their continued existence is tied to that person."
Nissim considers his options with the bomb he has drawn and frowns. If he uses it on the girl in the cage the concussion might blow away the smoke obscuring her. On the other hand the partial body of the one pestering Varuzhan is awfully close to him.
He decides to step forward and more or less stuff the bomb down the collar of whatever clothes the crawling, grasping one has remaining.
Hmm, a quick question. Can Nissim use his Precise Bomb discovery to exclude Varuzhan from splash damage if he's grappled by the target of the bomb? Sounds like his dragging it around by his leg rather than being in a full body grapple so maybe? :)
Nissim reels backward, searing pain flashing across his face. But as he's righting himself, he is already thinking. He has some ideas, but the undead onslaught must be halted first.
As he rights himself he gestures toward the uncaged girl's shadow, shouting "Yarjo Talutushihna!
He is tempted to shield himself behind the bookcase, but more acid from the other girl could harm the books and papers it holds if he does. Instead he counts on his hypothesis that the acid must build after being expended, meaning she would not immediately be able to do the same again.
He draws a vial from his bandolier.
Casting Shadow Trap (DC 15) as standard action, drawing CLW infusion as move action.
@Mordred: Yeah, astounding isn't it? It's the gestalt. I have the alchemist's good FORT save. Alch 3 + CON 2 + Rat Familiar 2. Before I decide on an action, what is the light level in the room? Are people casting shadows?
"Make sure that door doesn't close until we're certain it opens from the inside" Nissim says as he looks at the scene. "If the girl on the mattress starved like the one in the cage seems to have, that could be the reason."
"I wouldn't bet against your idea Boros. The thing I wonder about is the order of deaths. Was Varus last to die, and responsible for the girls? Or first, with the girls left to their fates? Of course other combinations are also possible."
Nissim takes out a small vial of peppermint oil and applies some to a handkerchief. He holds it up over his nose to mask the odor.
"Anyone else?" he asks, holding up the vial.
"I carry this for my headaches, but it is also good for times like this."
Nissim waits to take a look at the corpses. He is not anxious to do it. Instead he walks to the desk and shelves to look at the books.
"Yes, I think we've done almost all we can here, for now at least. There is one more thing though..."
Nissim searches around the room for a handwriting sample. Something that is portable like a list or some notes would be best since he plans to take it with him. A paper discarded in the garbage would be perfect.
As is his habit, Nissim is far less tuned in to the tenor of the conversation than he is concerned with sifting facts.
"He may have had a hand in the girls disappearance, but was her death ever certain? With a second girl, a friend of the first's, also involved with him, she could have left town due to her discovery of them. Or something else may have happened. His focused attention on the school's students is suspicious though."
"There's nothing here in his library that suggests more than an avid and well-educated reader's interest in arcana of any type, but he may have kept such books down in his... experimental rooms to keep his interest a secret. It seems there were no human bones downstairs, so my speculation has no basis beyond coincidence at his time. It is nearly certain he dabbled in summoning."
"All of that said, Lily is certainly correct about his meticulous habits. It would not necessarily be easy to figure him out from a swift examination of his room if he did not want to reveal anything."
When Nissim arrives in the room he begins to look about for any signs the occupant is a practitioner of magic. He checks the bookcases first, then moves on to other areas for any signs that would point to an interest in summoning, or if not that, a particular type of magical specialization.
Perception: 1d20 + 8 ⇒ (3) + 8 = 11
K Arcana: 1d20 + 12 ⇒ (12) + 12 = 24
Spellcraft: 1d20 + 8 ⇒ (11) + 8 = 19
"It's interesting that you mention the missing girl Aldous. If he is the one responsible, his motive might have been more... esoteric than the usual. Were there any signs of human remains near the summoning circle?"
Although he said nothing on the subject, he is glad Varuzhan decided to go ahead and enter the chambers beyond the hidden door. He is most curious to learn more about the person, or perhaps persons, responsible for the summoning circle and/or the lizard's presence.
Lacking the vision to see in darkness like Varuzhan and Miranda though, he bides his time before entering himself. He doesn't want to possibly ruin their cover by vringing a light in.
"Alright Miranda, I will hold on to this, thank you. It makes sense since I don't have a weapon in hand."
NIssim takes a look at the stairs with Varuzhan, then moves into the center of the room to think about how the area might be laid out. How does it all fit together?
I picked Albanian for its consonant clusters. They make the language look very hard and angular I think, which seems right for Infernal. Albanian doesn't actually sound that way, but that doesn't matter here.
Over in ROTRL I've used Finnish for spell casting. Is arcane spell casting supposed to be in Draconic? Anyone know?
There is a list that someone put together floating around on the forums somewhere, but it seems more fun to make a list.
