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Thank you for the feedback! I will keep it in mind next time I get around to looking at the charts. The quickest one to do would be consolidating the Fighter. Of course I'd like to hear more people's thoughts about that before I pull the trigger!


I just noticed your guide does not rate Implement's Assault. What rating would you give that class feat?


You say in your guide that the Mirror implement provides infinite 2-action teleports...but isn't it really infinite 1-action teleports? As far as I can tell, you don't need to end your Mirror's Reflection to use it again, so you can just create a duplicate with an action, and with your next action, create a duplicate 15' from the duplicate (which is also you!). This would allow you to move up to 45' on your turn.

Shame about that adept benefit, though.


Also I gotta say it's quite interesting to see how complicated some classes are relative to others, in terms of wacky prereq trees and sheer number of feats. Druid, Monk, & Sorcerer are pretty crazy.


VestOfHolding wrote:
These are great! Thanks for making these.

You're welcome!

I just added Gunslinger, Magus, and Summoner, so all classes are to my knowledge covered. I've also made sure all have at least one set of ratings. Do you find those useful?

Now that I've got all classes, I might go back and revisit some design choices. Each class was in some senses a new experiment, so not everything is consistent, and not everything works that well. Some particular things I might change if I have the time & inclination:

Ratings matching the guide's style: The dots-for-stars thing never really worked for me, so I might translate that to numbers across the board. In general it might be better to standardize how the charts present ratings. (I gotta say though, FlurryofBlunders's use of ★ ● ◆ ▼ in their Summoner guide works surprisingly well for at-a-glance recognition, better than numbers.) I also experimented with the numerals being colored vs. the circles, not sure which I like better. Guides that split ratings over two ranks proved to be quite a pain, although they often had good reason (such as the rank depending on subclass).

Feat bubble borders & fill: Originally it was pretty useful to have the Core Rule Book and Advanced Player's Guide distinguished, but for all the other classes, there is no such distinction to be made. I tried different borders for fun, but the idea is to convey information. I just don't know what new information would be most useful to convey via borders. I applied gradients to Ranger warden spells, stances, and Champion/Cleric alignment-based feats, but I'm not sure how useful those really are. (Color-blindness is always an issue with just using color differences, in any case.)

Page Numbers: I had a request early on for page numbers, but pushed back against that. It's easy enough to click the feat and open Archives of Nethys, which does give page numbers, and page numbers on the charts would really clutter things up. What do you think? I mean, at this point it would be a lot of work too! :-P

Feat Groupings: Looking back, I see I changed how I grouped certain feats across classes, so I will probably review that at some point.

Fighter: Fighter wound up with so many groupings I broke it into separate charts, one for each fighting style. Do you find that useful or would you rather have a single chart?

As always, if you find any errors, or have any suggestions on how to improve these, please do post here. I'd be particularly interested to know how the feat groupings are working for you. Are they helping you plan a build? Are they leading you astray in any way?


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I've updated the charts with some fixes and incorporation of errata, addition of reviews, and some more classes. Still have the Gunslinger, Magus, and Summoner to do.


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Hello...been away a while after my Pathfinder group fell apart and I guess these charts went away with my group stuff! Sorry about that. John R asked me to put the charts back up, so here you go. Please use this new thread to post requests & error reports. And I'm sure you will find errors! (Archives of Nethys stopped loading http links so I had to change all those to https.)

Pathfinder 2 Class Feat Charts

The idea of these charts is to show at a glance how class feats are related, by dependency and functional area, along with useful notes and keywords.

Most charts include ratings from particular class guides. You can click on any feat to look up its full description at the Archives of Nethys, and the ratings citation at top right to open the cited guide. There are lots more class guides now so I doubt I'll be incorporating them all on the charts themselves, it just gets crazy. I could link to each class's guides on the individual charts, but it might be best to just link to Zenith's Guide to the Guides. If there's a particular guide's ratings you really really want incorporated, feel free to ask.

I could also publish the charts without any guide ratings at all, if you would prefer that. Note that my OmniGraffle Pro source document is in the folder, so if you have that app you can muck with a personal copy of the charts or make your own for particular classes I haven't gotten to yet. (I'm doing new classes as I have time & interest, but I don't expect to cram in every new supplemental feat outside of core books.)

Please do report any errors you find here.


Evilgm wrote:
pixierose wrote:
The majority of my characters start off with a 16 in there main stats, the only time I've had a 18 from level 1 character is when I play a casting focus character.
A lot of people prefer having 18 in their starting attack stat because it's the roll you will make the most, and succeeding feels better than failing. No one is saying you have to have 18 in your main attack stat, but the option would be nice. And the reality is that +1 to attacks (and likely damage) is just more consistently useful than the +1 to Save DCs and Crafting checks (and sometimes damage) from Intelligence.

I've certainly seen people claiming an 18 in the main stat is (still) critical, and even when not I've gotten a strong impression from many forum posts and class guides that such is the case. It's good to finally hear some people refuting that claim.


It would be simple enough to say "a relative -2 to hit", but oh no it's a whole extra word to type.


You. Are. GENIUS!

We will make fortune.


"Body? What body? All I've got is this here bag of weasels."

Possibly dead weasels. If you toss a corpse in, maybe it turns into a weasel, just not a live one.


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belgrath9344 wrote:

Two new classes: the clever inventor and the sharpshooting gunslinger

Automaton ancestry for players who want to play a customizable construct

So, I could play an automaton inventor who is his own innovation? :-D


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Yeah, if you can't hit with your main attack, none of the riders based on Int are even relevant.

I went for a dwarf inventor cause it seemed an interesting combo, but could only manage Str 16 / Int 16 (unless there's some way of nabbing Str 18 I missed). Yay for stereotyped ancestries—but that's a whole 'nother kettle o' fish.


Puna'chong wrote:
Yeah, it's part of the Merriam-Webster definition, but it's really very uncommon. In the US at least. I've only ever heard of it used in relation to a trick, never a physical device.

Apart from a gimmick very often involving a particular physical device, of course. But the device is not the trick.


Squiggit wrote:

Have to disagree about them being similar. Just about the only commonality is that they both ask you to roll against a DC and something bad happens if you roll under it.

But that's literally the whole game.

You've killed the illusion! Now I'll never be able to play again. :'(


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The construct modifications didn't seem that interesting to me, but I still wanted a construct, so for the theorycraft build I made (see the other thread about posting your build), I went with the weapon innovation and the level 1 construct companion feat and upgrades. I doubt I'll get a chance to actually test it though, I don't know anybody who does playtests.

The upgrades to damage aren't that useful if your bigger-damage attacks can't actually hit the target. Based on how I've seen the numbers go in my home group, I'd rather have more to-hit and lower damage for my construct. Or maybe what I need is a good mentor for tactical debuffing, which my home group doesn't really do. :-/

In general though, I think I'd prefer the construct have more utility options than combat options. Spellcasters have so much of the utility ground already covered, but but that would open the option for groups with fewer/no spellcasters. I understand extra gadgets are on the table for after the initial playstest period so we'll ahve to wait on that.


My main group doesn't do any side stuff so it looks like my playtesting will be limited to theorycrafting builds. Do we have an LFG-playtest topic? ;-)


Here you go.


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Not fully detailed but mostly there. Weapon innovation + a regular construct via the level 1 class feat. I detailed a construct innovation as an alternative build. Either way the construct could serve as a mount. Idea is to lean heavily into the crafting aspect and also get some of the tanky benefit of being a dwarf, since this build doesn't take the armor innovation.

Focus skills are Crafting (obviously) and Athletics (because melee), and then I went for Society just because it's INT-based and a little dash of flavor. Haven't even considered dedications, but there might be a good one that I could trade some class feats out for. (Suggestions welcome.)

What do you think?

Anvil Dwarf Inventor

STR 16, DEX 12, CON 14, INT 16, WIS 12, CHA 8

Anvil Dwarf Heritage grants Crafting, Specialized Crafting (blacksmithing, woodworking). - This is the Crafting class par excellence, so I guess I'll push that as far as I can.

Background: Laborer – Athletics, Athletics Lore, Hefty Hauler feat (+2 to bulk limits). - Guess I'm the party mule! (I wanted Tinker for Engineering Lore but it overlaps with the ancestry, losing a skill feat. Inventor gets plenty of skills though so I just take Engineering Lore as one of the free choices.)

Additional skills: Acrobatics, Arcana, Engineering Lore, Occultism, Society, Stealth, Thievery. - Obvious picks are the INT and STR skills, with a bit of room for other useful skills.

Innovation: Weapon
I think a Maul would be fun & thematic, but I'm gonna get a construct companion too (a robo-dino or a robo-bear). Starting with 1d12 damage means I can focus on the more stylish modifications:

Level 1: Modular Head or Razor Prongs - Looks like a Maul obviates a couple modifications right off the bat!

Level 9: Aerodynamic or Manifold Alloy

Level 17: Momentum Retainer or Rune Capacity - Both seem like nice boosts.

The innovation modifications for the construct didn't really grab me but some of the base features are nice. I think I could switch this build to a construct innovation without much fuss.

Or Possibly...Innovation: Construct
I could instead do the construct as the innovation instead and have a plain old 1d12 maul. Default modifications:

Level 1: Accelerated Mobility - Good for when it becomes my mount.

Level 9: Advanced Weaponry - Complex Simplicity (bump damage die size) or Razor Prongs (if its Athletics will be enough)

Level 17: Runic Keystone or Resistant Coating.

The innovation modifications for the construct didn't really grab me but some of the base features are nice, and having Overdrive apply to both the construct and the inventor is very nice. I think I could switch this build to a construct innovation without much fuss.

Ancestry & General Feats
Looks like we're going for combat boosts most of the way here. Toughness + Mountain's Stoutness will mean lots more hit points, but given the lack of a peak stat, Heroes' Call has its appeal. Might be nice to fit Canny Acumen in there.

1a) Dwarven Doughtiness (frightened reduces by 2)
5a) Defy the Darkness (gr. darkvision) - Dwarven Reinforcement is thematic but situational, as is Sheltering Slab. Boulder Roll could be fun?
9a) Heroes' Call (heroism spell) •OR• Mountain's Stoutness (+level HP) - Battleforger sounds nice but everybody will probably have runes by then. Right?
13a) Telluric Power •OR• one of the 9a feats
17a) Stonegate •OR• one of the earlier choices

3g) Fleet •OR• Incredible Initiative •OR• Toughness - The big three; it's a question of what order to take them. But for a dwarf with 20' move, Fleet is probably going to be first.
7g) Fleet •OR• Incredible Initiative •OR• Toughness
11g) Fleet •OR• Incredible Initiative •OR• Toughness
15g) ??? - probably a skill feat (Craft Anything?)
19g) ??? - I have no idea

Class Feats
As with an animal companion, feats to upgrade it are essentially required picks, which leaves a few open choices.

1c) Prototype Companion - If I do a construct innovation, I might go with Tamper here, but I'm really not sure about the level 1 feats.
2c) Searing Restoration - I'm already taking all the companion-upgrading feats, and No! No! seems situational. Searing Restoration is goofy enough and will help me take even more punishment as a front-liner.
4c) Advanced Construct Companion - gonna make it Large so I can ride it
6c) Clockwork Celerity - Lightning bolts (Megavolt) are cool but spellcasters do them better. Then again, at level 12, you get to ricochet them around! Might retrain then. Visual Fidelity is good vs. invisibles, compared to Greater Darkvision via the ancestroy feat, and there are some interesting other ancestry feats.
8c) Incredible Construct Companion
10c) Manifold Modifications - Meddling seems poorly rationalized and just doesn't interest me.
12c) Boost Modulation - I can't see myself throwing gadgets willy-nilly, so mucking with my own weapon it is. Unless I want to ricochet lightning around with Gigavolt! If unstable becomes more usable I'll probably go for that.
14c) Paragon Companion - Unstable Redundancies sure would be nice though.
16c) You Failed to Account for...This! - Haven't actually done the math, but if this feat doesn't pan out, then I will get...Unstable Redundancies!
18c) Devastating Weaponry - Since I'm not interested in Meddling, this is what's left me.
20c) Full Automation - Still not interested in lobbing sprockets at my teammates's weapons.

Notably, without knowing exactly how they're going to fix the whole unstable thing, I'm not tempted to pick many feats with the keyword, which is one of the reasons I'm doing a weapon but taking so many companion feats. Many of the unstable class feats seem a bit underwhelming anyhow.

Skill Training & Feats
Obviously as a class based all around Crafting, I'm going to take a lot of Crafting skill feats. Although I've heard elsewhere that the Crafting rules are a mess, so maybe not? That'll still leave room for some other skill feats later on. I really don't know much about Athletics feats but skimming over then none seemed like must-haves. Maybe Cloud Jump? :-P

3t) Expert Crafting - This is going up first, obviously.
5t) Expert Athletics - Good for melee combat moves.
7t) Master Crafting
9t) Master Athletics
11t) Expert Society - Gotta take something! I'd be happy to hear of a better pick.
13t) Master Society
15t) Legendary Crafting
17t) Legendary Athletics
19t) Legendary Society

1s) Specialty Crafting (blacksmithing, woodworking) - from Anvil Dwarf ancestry
1s) Athletics: Hefty Hauler - from Laborer background
1s) Inventor - free with the class, I'll take it

2s) Assurance (Crafting) - seems like an obvious pick
4s) Quick Repair - faster is better, especially without Unstable Repair
6s) Magical Crafting (?) - I'm not a spellcaster but this still works, right?
8s) Impeccable Crafting - In for a penny....
10s) Trick Magic Item - I don't have the skill training but I'm running out of ideas for skill feat picks.
12s) Society: Streetwise
14s) Society: Underground Network
16s) Craft Anything (will probably take as 15g feat)
18s) ??? - Out of ideas....
20s) ???


Puna'chong wrote:
I hadn't seen that they've acknowledged that DC 17 for Unstable is high though, so that changes my view a bit. Where I was coming from was basically that if I'm getting off one, maybe two Unstable abilities per combat, they need to be more than a turn or else I'm just snagging something else with Celerity.

It was right in the "welcome to the playtest" post. But it was easy to miss, as with so many things in Paizo prose....


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Invictus Novo wrote:
Keraki wrote:
Invictus Novo wrote:
Probably silly question as I'm probably just not seeing something obvious. If I have a construct innovation and am riding it, then use explosion, do I get hit for the damage too since I'm not "wearing or holding" it and thus the emanation is coming from the construct rather than me?
You are in range of the explosion and not in the eye of the storm, so yes. If you have the explosion emanate from it, you are hit with current RAW.

Thanks. My initial thought was that since we effectively occupied the same square, this would mean the explosion's emanation didn't hit me. Unfortunately that means if you want to use your construct as a mount, the explosion class feature is almost unusable.

That really kills my enthusiasm as I was looking forward to having a truly viable character who invented a smart wheelchair to allow for adventuring despite not being able to walk :(

For this alone I think they should make it clear that if you are riding your construct, you are not hit by the explosion.


Cordell Kintner wrote:

You can not have the same feat twice unless it specifically says you can. Specialty crafting doesn't say you can.

Also, Anvil Dwarf already let's you take two things.

Ah, so I could actually not be able to take three things!

:-D

It's fine, I went with Laborer. Inventors aren't exactly starved for skill choices.


QuidEst wrote:
- A construct's base weapon is 1d8. They have 1d6 as an agile finesse secondary.

Ah well that's better then. Something about Paizo's writing makes it really easy for me to miss key bits of information.

QuidEst wrote:
- Explode centering on yourself is less risky than on your construct, because unless I missed something, it can't hit yourself.

Yes, but to explode with any impact, you have to be in the thick of melee, which means you are definitely getting pounded on. With the construct exploding, you could trigger it from a safer position, and possibly be using a ranged weapon. That's not how this build is...built, but it's a possibility.


TheGentlemanDM wrote:

Megavolt is a poor-man's lightning bolt... but it's a poor-man's lightning bolt essentially as a focus spell. On a martial class that doesn't get other AOE options with actual range.

It scales very well and grows to a strong range. 9d12 is still a pretty good AOE to have in your pocket in the endgame.

Good points, all. I was a little biased because my current character throws lightning bolts, so when I first saw it I was like, "yeah, done that". :-P


Constructs have a different gig going. They have a long list of immunities, all the explody, and the various modifications & feat support. Being different, it's a thing.


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You'd think, wouldn't you.


All that INT is for magic, not mechanisms!


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Each bullet will have to be crafted as an item with the desired spell effect, but you will also have quick crafting to make magic bullets that only last until your next daily prep. Attachments to the gun will allow for metamagic: a scope for Reach Spell, a diffuser for Widen Spell, and the like, but they will require the extra action to take effect as usual. Maybe you can only have one such device on your gun at a time, but you can swap them.


I had skipped over Megavolt as a poor-man's lightning bolt, but you know, I could take something else until Gigavolt is available and then retrain...! Ricochet lightning just sounds like lots of fun.


I think one big loss of going with a weapon innovation and a regular construct companion is that then Overdrive doesn't apply to the construct as well, which it does with a construct innovation. Also, having Explode center on myself instead of my disposable/replaceable construct is living more dangerously.

Then again, all the boosts to my own weapon, a 1d12 maul, look like they'll really pile up over the construct's base 1d6 damage (which as an innovation would be upgradable to 1d8).

I haven't really thought about the Cortex upgrades to Intimidation, Stealth, and Survival. I can see a hissing, clanking, clockwork beast being intimidating, but sneaky? I'll leave scouting to the familiars and tracking to the rangers.


I like your thoughts on the construct innovation. Overdrive applying to both is definitely nice.

I just posted my build ideas too, in a separate topic. I still have dug in as deep as you but I've had similar thoughts about a number of the class options.


Okay so here we go. Just based on my first read of Inventory and digging around at bits in the main rulebook. The idea is to have a decent front-/mid-line armored combatant, with a mount at some point.

Browver - Anvil Dwarf Inventor

STR 16, DEX 12, CON 14, INT 16, WIS 12, CHA 8

Anvil Dwarf Heritage grants Crafting, Specialized Crafting (blacksmithing, woodworking)

This is the Crafting class par excellence, so I guess I'll push that as far as I can.

Background: Laborer – Athletics, Athletics Lore, Hefty Hauler feat (+2 to bulk limits)

Guess I'm the party mule!

Additional skills: Acrobatics, Arcana, Engineering Lore, Occultism, Society, Stealth, Thievery

Obvious picks are the INT and STR skills, with a bit of room for other useful skills.

Innovation: Weapon
I think a Maul would be fun, but I'm gonna get a construct companion too (a robo-dino or a robo-bear). Default modifications:

Level 1: Modular Head or Razor Prongs - Looks like a Maul obviates a couple modifications right off the bat!

Level 9: Aerodynamic or Manifold Alloy

Level 17: Momentum Retainer or Rune Capacity, - Both seem like nice boosts. - Extensible Weapon or Impossible Alloy as needed.

The innovation modifications for the construct didn't really grab me but some of the base features are nice. I think I could switch this build to a construct innovation without much fuss.

Innovation: Construct
Or I could do the construct as the innovation instead and have a plain old maul. Default modifications:

Level 1: Accelerated Mobility - Good for when it becomes my mount.

Level 9: Advanced Weaponry - Complex Simplicity or Razor Prongs (if its Athletics will be enough)

Level 17: Runic Keystone or Resistant Coating.

The innovation modifications for the construct didn't really grab me but some of the base features are nice. I think I could switch this build to a construct innovation without much fuss.

Ancestry & General Feats
Looks like we're going for combat boosts most of the way here. Toughness + Mountain's Stoutness will mean lots more hit points, but given the lack of a peak stat, Heroes' Call has its appeal. Might be nice to fit Canny Acumen in there?

1a) Dwarven Doughtiness (frightened reduces by 2)
5a) Defy the Darkness (gr. darkvision) - Dwarven Reinforcement is thematic but situational, as is Sheltering Slab. Boulder Roll could be fun?
9a) Heroes' Call (heroism spell) •OR• Mountain's Stoutness (+level HP) - Battleforger sounds nice but everybody will probably have rune by then. Right?
13a) Telluric Power •OR• one of the 9a feats
17a) Stonegate •OR• one of the earlier choices

3g) Fleet •OR• Incredible Initiative •OR• Toughness - These are the big three, it's a question of what order to take them. But for a dwarf with 20' move, Fleet is probably going to be first.
7g) Fleet •OR• Incredible Initiative •OR• Toughness
11g) Fleet •OR• Incredible Initiative •OR• Toughness
15g) ??? - probably a skill feat (Craft Anything?)
19g) ??? - I have no idea

Class Feats
As with an animal companion, the upgrading feats are essentially required picks which leaves a few open choices.

1c) Prototype Companion - If I do a construct innovation, I might go with Tamper here, but I'm really not sure about the level 1 feats.
2c) Searing Restoration - I'm already taking all the companion-upgrading feats, so No! No is out. Searing Restoration is goofy enough and will help me take even more punishment.
4c) Advanced Construct Companion - gonna make it Large so I can ride it
6c) Clockwork Celerity - Lightning bolts are cool but spellcasters do them better. Then again, at level 12, you get to ricochet them around! Visual Fidelity is good vs. invisibles, compared to Greater Darkvision via an ancestroy fea, and there are some interesting other ancestry feats..
8c) Incredible Construct Companion
10c) Manifold Modifications - Meddling just doesn't interest me.
12c) Boost Modulation - I can't see myself throwing gadgets willy-nilly, so mucking with my own weapon it is. Unless I want to ricochet lightning around with Gigavolt! If unstable becomes more usable I ight go for that instead.
14c) Paragon Companion - Unstable Redundancies sure would be nice though.
16c) You Failed to Account for...This! - Haven't actually done the math, but if that doesn't pan out, then I will get...Unstable Redundancies!
18c) Devastating Weaponry - Since I'm not interested in Meddling, this is what's left me.
20c) Full Automation - Still not interested in lobbing sprockets at my teammates's weapons.

Notably, without knowing exactly how they're going to fix the whole unstable thing, I'm not tempted to pick many feats with the keyword, which is one of the reasons I'm doing a weapon but taking all the companion feats. Many of the unstable class feats seem a bit underwhelming anyhow.

Skill Training Feats
Obviously as a class based all around Crafting, I'm going to take a lot of Crafting skill feats. Although I've heard elsewhere that the Crafting rules are a mess, so maybe not? That'll still leave room for some other skill feats later on. I really don't know much about Athletics feats but skimming over then none seemed like must-haves. Maybe Cloud Jump? :-P

3t) Expert Crafting - This is going up first, obviously.
5t) Expert Athletics - Good for melee combat moves.
7t) Master Crafting
9t) Master Athletics
11t) Expert Society - Gotta take something! Happy to hear of a better pick.
13t) Master Society
15t) Legendary Crafting
17t) Legendary Athletics
19t) Legendary Society

1s) Specialty Crafting (blacksmithing, woodworking) - from Anvil Dwarf ancestry
1s) Athletics: Hefty Hauler - from Laborer background
1s) Inventor - free with the class, I'll take it

2s) Assurance (Crafting) - seems like an obvious pick
4s) Quick Repair - faster is better, especially without Unstable Repair
6s) Magical Crafting (?) - I'm not a spellcaster but this still works, right?
8s) Impeccable Crafting - In for a penny....
10s) Trick Magic Item - I don't have the skill training but I'm running out of ideas for skill feat picks.
12s) Society: Streetwise
14s) Society: Underground Network
16s) Craft Anything (will probably take as 15g feat)
18s) ??? - Out of ideas....
20s) ???


Ah ok, so I will pick a different background with the stat boosts I need and a different skill feat. Silliness though.

Thanks!


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I guess I can move the free boost from dwarf from INT to STR, for 16 in each. Options are limited there for a dwarf. It's a wonky thing having INT be the class stat when what you do is mostly combat anyhow.


Oh gosh you've gone into much more detail than I have, although I've chosen a bunch of class feats I have no idea what to do for skill feats & such. My regular PF2 group is just staring now though so I will have to look at your build later.


I would love to have a lightning gun.


Looks like if you go weapon or armor, you can at least get a non-innovation construct companion and buy any of the class feats to boost it, so there's that.


In hopes I might find a chance to playtest this class, I'm thinking about building up a dwarf inventor, with a weapon innovation but also a construct companion that will become a mount when it's advanced. I'd be taking ancestry & other feats to boost survivability to cover the defense side of things.

I usually play caster classes, though, so I'm not terribly up to speed on melee weapons., I'm going to be looking over the weapons but if you have any advice for someone new to that aspect of the game, I'd love to hear it.

Anvil Dwarf heritage and Tinker background are pretty obvious, although that winds up doubling the Specialty Crafting feat and I don't recall if you can replace one of those like you can a skill training.

Likely starting stats: STR 14, DEX 12, CON 14, INT 18, WIS 12, CHA 8

If dropping INT for STR is viable I might do that. Or I might do a ranged-weapon build with DEX, although that's not really how dwarves roll.

I can post more about the build when I have it figured out.


I know that you can swap out a duplicate skill from a background, but do you do that with skill feats as well? For example, I am thinking of making an Anvil Dwarf with the Tinker background. Both of those grant the Specialty Crafting skill feat. Can I change one of them because they are both the same? If not I can go with some other background I guess, but the Engineering Lore is quite apt for the concept.


Midnightoker wrote:

Oh man, one group is doing it LIVE:

3 Inventors, one of each path.

Link? Link!?


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Ah I missed that. There's always that one sentence off somewhere you aren't reading at the moment.

But it does seem all the class feats that boost a construct companion can be taken even if that isn't your innovation. Unless there's another hidden sentence somewhere I've missed....


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Yeah. I'd even be fine with the DC starting at 17, and coming down a bit as you level up. There's room for a lot of tuning there! I hope they look into that.


Ah, it looks like this feat is for the other two specialists to have their armor or weapon and a companion too. Although nothing prevents someone with a construct innovation from also having one!


This must be an editorial oversight, yeah? You just get a construct as one of your three innovation choices at first level. Or do you suppose the intent is that you can have two constructs?


Seems like a good idea for an archetype dedication, maybe Ranger would be able to make good use of it too.


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If I had the opportunity to run an Inventor, he would have a Mecha-Dino construct to ride around and look badass on. It's a shame you can't have two innovations. I'd settle for even a minor techno-weapon to shoot more lightning with. Champions get Second Ally at 8th level, why couldn't an Inventor have a Second Innovation class feat?


I wouldn't miss an Animal Companion's support action—they're too fiddly to bother with in my opinion. Anyhow, a construct has a pretty long list of immunities, and with various class feat(ure)s it can explode, heal you & your friends, turn into a suitcase, be your sweet ride, shoot lightning, and do a whirling dervish AE attack on everything in 30'.

I see much to like. But maybe they will tune the attack numbers a bit.


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They could, but then it would be just another focus pool. Mad scientists are supposed to have their wacky inventions fritz out when the cool experimental feature is overused! A focus pool wouldn't have that.

I mean, I suppose you could say you have a focus pool of 1, but that you can use your focus (that is, unstable) abilities even if you have no focus points, but then you have to roll a DC 17 flat check or it fritzes and you can't use any more focus (that is, unstable) abilities. But you'd only ever have 1 focus point, so what's the, erm, point?

I mean, I suppose you could add more focus points* so that you can use focus (that is, unstable) abilities X number of times before you risk the short-circuit/mechanism jam/minor explosion, but it really is a different thing.

* Actually there's a 14th-level class feat that kinda, sorta, does that, but not really.


5e already got Iron Man, Pathfinder 2e gets the Mandalorian. Seems legit.


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I like that it isn't Focus, and instead involves some randomness over whether your gadget fritzes out. I do think there should be some mid/low-level support to bring the DC down from 17, and not just a high-ish level class feat that lets you completely skip the check (at the cost of losing further unstable actions until you retune your doodad).

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