How is an Object Defined?


Rules Discussion


Hey,

So my party while looking up Bag of Holding stumbled upon a Bag of Weasels. They now have a scheme involving having a Decanter of Endless Water pointing upwards with the Fountain setting on, a Bag of Weasels upside down a few feet up so whatever is in the bag falls out therefore creating thousands and millions of weasels to ransack the local countryside of food, wildlife and plantlife. Another idea related to this was filling a Bag of Weasels up with sand, with the hope each sand particle counts as its own separate object and therefore unleashing up-to 10,308,750 weasels with each full bag over-turned.

As part of the thought experiment though (as we were just laughing our heads off imagining this), we never could find how an object is defined for the purposes of magical spells and magical items. If a grain of sand is an object in of itself, or if it must breach a certain bulk to classify as one.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Technical definition like your grain of sand question does not exist. It's a "use your judgement" thing, not a "use this formula" thing.


Items have to be retrieved w/ an Interact action to activate the weasel transmutation, so none of this would work. You can dump out a Bag of Holding, but that wouldn't activate the curse. Which means that's one way to bypass the curse! Store items you'll only need when you can dump out the whole inventory.
Storing takes an action too, so that'd take forever even to attempt!
Okay, kinda kidding there since the BoH operates like a mundane sack (though perhaps only to the person holding it!). So you could pour sand in. But the Bag of Weasels does operate the curse only when items are retrieved.

As for the water, it only comes out if retrieved (and there's nobody to do that) or if the bag's turned inside out (which means the bag can't be used and the water cannot enter.) The water would overload the bag and it'd rupture, with the water being lost.
That is if the water can even enter without a sentient creature activating the bag, depending on how one interprets the metaphysics/rigor of the rules. Since there's a limited air supply in a Bag of Holding, it's obviously not "open" in the traditional sense, but what would the ramifications of that be? I for one wouldn't want Bags of Holding to lose function underwater because nobody dares put something in (or maybe just dare to untie the top) and flood their bag until it bursts.


Castilliano wrote:

As for the water, it only comes out if retrieved (and there's nobody to do that) or if the bag's turned inside out (which means the bag can't be used and the water cannot enter.) The water would overload the bag and it'd rupture, with the water being lost.

That is if the water can even enter without a sentient creature activating the bag, depending on how one interprets the metaphysics/rigor of the rules. Since there's a limited air supply in a Bag of Holding, it's obviously not "open" in the traditional sense, but what would the ramifications of that be? I for one wouldn't want Bags of Holding to lose function underwater because nobody dares put something in (or maybe just dare to untie the top) and flood their bag until it bursts.

Now creating new possibilities of using Bags of Holding as improvised air canisters if you get caught underwater. Now curious though of the logistics of storing incriminating evidence in Bags of Weasels so when removed they harmlessly flee the site as weasels. Maybe a murder mystery subplot involving returning a weasel to a Bag of Weasels to turn it into the incriminating evidence.

One player did figure you could also have a golem putting sand in a Bag of Weasels and retrieving it to unleash weasels. Which does seem like another adventure hook.


"Body? What body? All I've got is this here bag of weasels."

Possibly dead weasels. If you toss a corpse in, maybe it turns into a weasel, just not a live one.


Nik Gervae wrote:

"Body? What body? All I've got is this here bag of weasels."

Possibly dead weasels. If you toss a corpse in, maybe it turns into a weasel, just not a live one.

Toss dead weasels in, call it a Bag of Resurrection and sell it.

No assurance the weasel coming out looks at all similar though. :P


You. Are. GENIUS!

We will make fortune.


Castilliano wrote:
Nik Gervae wrote:

"Body? What body? All I've got is this here bag of weasels."

Possibly dead weasels. If you toss a corpse in, maybe it turns into a weasel, just not a live one.

Toss dead weasels in, call it a Bag of Resurrection and sell it.

No assurance the weasel coming out looks at all similar though. :P

Definitely a wild way to do Performance checks for income or as part of Extinction Curse's circus trick system.

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