Nightfall's page

I'm going to wait and see what the script is before I make judgments on casting.

Mark,

Regarding Monica's "codename" she's currently Spectrum. But nothing else so far that I'm aware of. (Honestly not sure I want her back to Photon when Spectrum is kind of more a) on point and b) cooler)

Also Mark I'm not sure I'm ready for Arcade mostly because after the events involving a bunch of young people, he's become less of a joke character. Some times.

Thirdly, I prefer Jack Russell rather than John Jameson. But the return of Ben Ulrich would be nice

Wait this thread is still going?

Well if we were talking giving it a CR that made sense for that number of oozes attacking intelligently it'd be up as high as you said earlier.

1d6 Int damage * 150 (we'll assume half miss) = Dead PC.

Maybe they think that's how it's gonna work and it doesn't because of some magical cosmic force that hinders swarms.

Honestly I just want to scare the Piss out of my players. I think they can handle it since they're 10th level PCs will serious advantages. (Like for example I gave them a 45 point buy and they don't have any 1s,2s,or 3s for HP at ANY level.)

I should also add I'm running a modified Carrion Crown. (modified by the monsters not necessarily the storyline.) Right now they're 10th level towards the end of Wake of the Watcher.

Brain Ooze, CR 7. Tiny.

"A swarm of Tiny creatures consists of 300 nonflying creatures..."

300 CR 7 creatures?

What is that, CR 189?

Also, swarms tend to be mindless or very stupid (I cannot think of any exceptions at the moment). Brain Oozes have 15 int, making them doubly ill-suited to a swarm.

Well I was thinking more along the lines of a CR 10-12. There are some smart swarms. Hellwasp Swarm for example.

I don't see just because having an Int score shouldn't preclude an ooze (which can swarm!) (especially since it's tiny!), to be able to become a swarm.

Anything that is a viable challenge solo should probably not be made into a swarm.

Edit: The only example I can think of is rot grubs as a hazard and rot grub swarms, but that still isn't the same.

Uhm why? I mean I can understand say, no Balor swarms. But this is an ooze. Oozes can become swarms. I just thought it was a logical step.

No one? Not a single suggestion?

I wanted to see if I could make a brain ooze swarm. However I'm still a little puzzled as to how to make a regular brain ooze (CR 7) into a swarm.

I figured the CR rating might be 10-12 but I could be wrong. I would really like some input. Thanks!

As fan of Frog God (and formerly Necromancer Games) I wonder...will this dungeon be that much more massive than Rappan Athuk? Or what?

It depends on whether Disease Resistance counts as modifying poison immunity. For homegames, I recommend yes, they can stack. For PFS, since there's some ambiguity, I recommend no, they do not stack.

This isn't for PFS. This is just for a game I'm running.

None of them seem to replace or alter the same class feature, so they should work.

Except maybe Internal Alchemist's Bonus Feats optional replacement to Discoveries and Vivisectionist's Rogue Talent replacement of the same.

I was under the impression they weren't per-requisites or class features. You can still get alchemist discoveries if you want. They are just extra.

Would it be rule accurate to allow someone to try a Chirurgeon, Internal Alchemist, and Vivisectionist?

Here's a couple to try out:

Last Light against the Locust Horde

The Last Crusaders of Sarkoris

Demon's Dying Blight

Last Call for Heroes

Riders against the Rifts

Dawn in the Abyss

The Fallen Crusade

Rifts of Light and Shadow

Harrowed in the Abyss

Nani O. Pratt wrote:

James is more like the Wizard of Oz...always threatening for dramatic effect, but really a softie behind the screen (of course, I say this having never played under him).

Wes on the other hand has caused me to run screaming from the table. Twice.

But all live in awe and despair of the Great, Beautiful, and Terrible Lisa! *Insert appropriate video here

Well I think that's a given...

I have decided to see how this plays out but I do think either he gets another chance, this gets re-rolled OR we have something else happen.

Right now I really rather have this play out in front of me and the player than just randomly decide right now.

Also I never get GM's choice when these particular players roll for percentages using Reincarnate.

the David wrote:

Isn't this blatant metagaming? Who in his right mind would do such a thing? Kill yourself just for the small chance you come back better than before?

I think a lot of people might do such a thing to avoid being a troglodyte. People get very attached to their self-identity, and very, very few people in real life want to be a troglodyte. If there's another chance, why not? In fact, being okay with coming back as a troglodyte might be better classified metagaming.

Not sure I quite agree with that. For one thing if you're a fighter type, being small has some pretty significant drawbacks. Also I'm not sure the PC in question is that attached JUST yet to this character. He's only been playing in the campaign for only 1 session.

Wizard of Oz? Hardly. Anti-paladin all the way! :p :)

Wesley might be a wizard.

Is it just me...or does it seem like James and Wes are size tiny outsiders with diametrically opposed alignments whispering into the ears of hapless GMs? "Be a kind Gentle GM and give them a retcon!" "No, no, send terrible outsiders to spy on them and hunt them down!" :-)

Honestly I've always seen James as your run of the mill demon plotting to destroy people versus Wesley's more "MMhhhaahh!!" evil snarling devil type.

David,

I'll try to see if that can work. I mean this way he won't lose out if, say, he become a Sylph or something like that.

You could have him come back as a tiefling. Just have him come back wrong.

Perhaps he damaged his soul or didn't came back alone. Or (The thought just occurs to me) have him bring the Hunt with him. Though alive the daemons pester him until they eat him or he turns. You could have the daemons on one side and the daemons on the other with the ninja in middle who drags the rest of is party with him, and hey part of being the hunted is turning upon the other souls you come across to ensure your own survival....

Well I had thought about that too. But not sure how much I want to do that while the PCs are questing for the Whispering Way.

ALTHOUGH! We are at Wake of the Watcher...so maybe something like "From Beyond!" would be an option...

Isn't this blatant metagaming? Who in his right mind would do such a thing? Kill yourself just for the small chance you come back better than before? I'd also think the gods wouldn't like the idea of someone playing with his life. There's a good chance they wouldn't even allow the druid to cast another reincarnate. There's also a good chance the party doesn't want to waste any additional resources on the idiot that just killed himself after being reincarnated.

Also, since he was a Native Outsider (and not a humanoid) he should come back as a Outsider. (and not a humanoid)
There you go, problem solved. Just retcon him as some kind of outsider.

Understand he's still kind of new to this...and I think played a good deal of WoW. I do agree it's a very 'metagame' move on his part. However I think it's balanced out by the fact the DM MIGHT have set him up to fail. (Not the whole being reincarnated thing so much as "Oops! You're dead.) So...we'll see.

Fixed thread title.

Did I misspell something Oh Mighty One called Liz?

My advice then is to be honest with the player and just tell him that. Remind him that when you accept a reincarnate spell... you very well might come back with a body you don't want, and that you should keep that in mind before you say yes to a reincarnation. I would allow him to retcon his decision if possible, and to allow the party to foot the bill for a raise dead or whatever to bring him back in his actual body. Selling the dead character's gear to help pay for that cost might help pay for it.

If you don't want to retcon it, then I would have the player of the troglodyte play out a sub-quest to go find an NPC cleric willing to sacrifice him and then cast raise dead to bring him back in his original body. You can turn this into a short adventure if you want.

That said... since this whole situation arose from an unfortunate death compounded by another player being a bit stingy with loot and/or not being very empathic toward the player of the dead PC's feelings, it might be best for the politics of your game table to retcon it all and just start over.

Firstly I do think retcon might be in order. However I should mention that the qlippoth in question DID eat him. Thus his gear didn't survive. So...I might just go with that as 'warning'. I will consider retcon to some degree, just not sure I'm all for the entirety of it.

There are high level witches who have Forced Reincarnation as a power and don't think that all people they run into are going to suddenly be fine with and joyously embrace the fact that they are now a female elf/male troglodyte/female bugbear/male halfling etc. A number of people have their identity tied to their physical form, and if they get something radically different, the witches expect them to freak out and then get amenable to blackmail and serving the witch rather than living for the rest of their life in a particularly hated form.

So the former tiefling doesn't like being a troglodyte but he's NE. Let him know about the "crone on the hill" who in exchange for a quest--or even for a "favor to be repaid at a later date"--will whammy you with her Forced Reincarnate hex until you get something you like. If you piss her off or stiff her on payment, she'll run the spin cycle until you get something you really don't like.

If you feel the character has failed to embrace his inner troglodyte, that means you've got a character who doesn't want to embrace his inner troglodyte to the point where death is a more pleasant option. Having the universe conspire against him means you're going to be out a player, like James said.

Well that is an option. I might do that since it would tie in nicely to the witches from Barstoi in the next adventure. We'll see.

That said dude I think you have access to 2 options here. First one is you allow him to be brought back anyway even though he's a petitioner and have his character rp out his terrified and fragmented memories of being hunted like a wounded dear which I recommend if you have a group of people and a player who loves a good rp. Or second you have the other group find him after the deed is done and try to revive him through normal means but to no avail, the spell can't get him as is since he's in f~@&ing Abbadon and daemons don't let their prey go easy but their is a catch, as the spell fails they see the spirit of their dead friend, he looks tired and terrified and says he heard the call but cannot answer it seems wherever he is has him stuck here and he can't get away of his own volition and he needs them to save him. This leads to your PC's going on a desperate manhunt into the gods blasted killing fields of Abaddon itself in an effort to save your friend from his rather idiotic and selfish action all the while trying to avoid the things hunting him and from becoming hunted themselves.

As a note in my home setting judgement can be quick and allow others to...

I'll consider that option weighed against what Mister Schneider just offered.

To throw in my diabolical 2 cents as well, Avernus, the first layer of Hell, includes among its titles the Iron Wilderness, the Grave of Angels, and the Field of Suicides.

Among several religions, particularly the more lawful ones - like those of Erastil and Torag - there are irredeemable crimes. Damnable crimes. Suicide stands among the most obvious of these, for there is never the possibility of repentance. Should a lawful worshiper of such a deity make his final act to knowingly and self-destructively blaspheme against his deity (and that deity has deliberate, known proscriptions against suicide) his soul will not pass on into his deity's realm. Rather, it will be cast into Avernus, where such souls are left to roam, forever hunted and forsaken at the gates of Hell.

There's a bit (a very small bit) on this matter on page 6 of Book of the Damned: Princes of Darkness, but (shameless plug) even more in the new Kobold Quarterly #22's article on Barbatos, Lord of Avernus.

If you're a neutral worshiper of such a lawful deity with proscriptions against suicide, I could see the argument that you might go to Abbadon. But in much the same way that you'd go to your lawful deity's home plane upon your death as a result of your faith, for failing your faith you probably go to the punishment of your deity's choosing - probably meaning Avernus in Hell. Ultimately, though, we've got Pharasma to sort out existential messes like that.

In the case that you state, it doesn't sound likely that your tiefling was part of a religion that cares one jot about suicide, so he probably wouldn't have to worry about any strange circumstances as he queues up for Pharasma's judgement.

That said, mortals who try to exploit the laws of death for their own game sound like EXACTLY the sort of thing psychopomps would seriously frown on. If this were my game, I'd put the player under the scrutiny of a nosoi psyhcopomp in whippoorwill form. Maybe have it and a few other ominous birds follow him for a while and watch to make sure he's not bending the laws of death too far. If he doesn't after a few months, maybe it drifts off. If he does do something sketchy, though, it might be time to call in a vanth, morrigna, or memitim to give him his one warning that no one just takes a dip in the River of Souls. You've got some really sadistic opportunities here. Indulge! ;)

You know I might combine YOUR idea with Kevin's because this way if the druid DOES decide to not do it, it offers him a choice.

I admit, I'm willing to recton for the sake of the table. I just dunno if one player's needs SHOULD over shadow that of the entire group.

That would be correct. It would also be the same as arbitrarily telling a player who's PC just died that "You can't be resurrected or brought back to life because your soul got judged by Pharasma. Sorry. Make a new character, and this time don't die."

In my experience, GMs like that end up with a lot of free time, since their players find other things to do rather than play in that game.

Well I don't do this THAT often James. I really don't. That being said I just don't feel right by just letting them "cheap out" on the fact he's a troglodyte and wants another race.

I will however factor that in my decision making process IF for some reason the Druid decides to spend the time, energy, etc to cast reincarnate. (I honestly don't think he will. But I don't know since I'm not a god.)

Dude. Embrace the TROGLODYTE!

Trust me, I want him to. But I think this might serve as a better lesson.

MAYBE.

The boneyard doesn't care how you die. If you die, that's where your soul goes UNLESS it's captured/imprisoned/delayed along the way, such as but not including being subjected to:

being turned undead
being soul trapped/trap the souled
being consumed by a monster

The above includes suicides. Now, while individual religions in Golarion all have drastically different views on suicides, and thus the clerics and other worshipers of those religions will have drastically different views on them and may or may not agree to cast spells to bring them back to life.

In many cases, suicide does mean you fail at your religion or your goal in life, and as a result, more suicides end up in torment in the afterlife rather than going on to their reward, but the time in which that "processing" happens is no faster or no slower than for any other deaths.

So, for the purposes of game mechanics, a spell doesn't care if a character died via suicide or not.

Okay. But as a Rat Bastard DM, I COULD stipulate that they process his soul quicker this time around and thus he ends up in Abaddon. Would that be correct?

yeah most daemons are actually based on the way in which they died with some of them being quite tragic cases like the lacridaemon or the erodaemon.

I'm familiar with that aspect sure. I just didn't realize there was a 'place' for suicides among the Hunted.

Not that it matters. I just wanted to ensure I stayed accurate with the whole "I'm a Rat Bastard DM!" shtick I'm grooming.

NE goes to Abaddon, becoming one of the hunted souls preyed on by the daemons. If he survives abaddon long enough he would become a Ceustodaemon, more information here

Well cool! I wasn't sure what, if any, kind of daemon he might turn into. :)

This recently came up in my Carrion Crown game. A Tielfling ninja/shadowdancer ended up going to toe to toe with a augnagar qlippoth.

Now the PC DID want to come back, but didn't realize the party druid was more interested in saving money than finding a cleric and doing Raise Dead/Resurrection. So along comes our friend (and cheaper alternative!) reincarnate! Druid rolls a 99, and now we have a troglodyte ninja/shadowdancer.

So now he's like "Dude!! I don't want to be a trog!" So I 'deviously' suggested he do a suicide, and thus try again.

Now however, I realize that there might be a problem since a goodly number of those suicides do go to Hell (or else the Abyss). But where does a NE former tielfling go?

James Jacobs! I'm looking at you sir!

And they should be very interesting special materials at that!

I look forward to that.

Adam and/or Sean,

If either of you can answer this: I was curious if these new materials would be suitable for something say like, bypassing epic level DR? Just as a starting point more than just a specific type/question.

I'm just trying to gauge if these materials will be anything like a certain Green Ronin product (IE Sovereign Materials in Advanced Game Master's Guide) or just something else.

I've updated the product description to match the finished product.

(The product image had already been updated.)

Excellent! Now my worry about no more special materials in PF will be alleviated.

Well I'm just still wondering if I'll get a reply. I mean they are busy probably prepping for Paizo Con and stuff...

Alright not sure if this has been covered or not, but if James Jacobs and/or someone with more intimate knowledge of the book COULD answer this one for me:

I realize this book is about EQUIPMENT. However will it, in any detail, deal with say, special materials? You know something other than Mithril, Admantine, Cold Iron, etc?

And you can count on a longsword that hits 1 in 20 times dealing negligible amount of damage?

If he's in fear for his life more logical choice would be to assume Gaseous Form and flee.

Well at the time I wrote this, I had hoped the PCs wouldn't catch him BEFORE he summoned the vilkas. Unfortunately...that didn't go as planned. Nor did getting him to run via dimensional steps.

I had considered gaseous form, but as shadowfoot pointed out, it's hard to move at speed 10, even if you move between stone.

Quote:

He's not a 10th level wizard. He's not even close to 8th according to Rob.

Missing the point. Why would ANY wizard with spells available fight with a melee weapon with his:

- terrible BAB
- terrible Strength score
- terrible feats (for melee)
- terrible weapon

He even can't hit himself on anything but a 20 to inflict on average 3 points of damage. Per round. If you roll a natural 20.

If you're that desperate for just plain damage (which I don't see why would you be, he has PLENTY of spells), he has his Acid Dart power, which targets Touch AC, and uses his Dex of 16, so he'll probably hit something and more than double his damage output, for a grand total of 6.5 points of damage per round.

Uhm if he's surrounded by enemies and in fear for his life? I admit spells are awesome, but not so awesome you can always count on them to save you if you've got overwhelming numbers against you.

Hmmm... Good catch. I will have to up his wizard level then, because if he goes toe to toe with the party, he needs an escape route more than he does a long sword. If he stars swinging that sword, his death will follow in about 6 seconds.

Probably but I'm hopeful by then he'll have little choice. As I don't intend for him to fight the PCs in the Lodge.

...why in the world would a 10th lvl wizard fight with a longsword?

He's not a 10th level wizard. He's not even close to 8th according to Rob.

You could just take 1 level of aristicrat away and replace with conjuror so you could do DS....less modification and still the same end result.....mostly. Or just add a level of conjuror to him.

Well I dunno I want to remove that much from his BAB. However, I might add an extra level IF I think he needs it.

Or even better - replace his levels of Aristocrat with more levels of Wizard.

Yeah but then he loses the ability to fight with his longsword. I know it's not much damage, but consider it's a d8 versus a d4, even with the -3 to damage, it's still more damage on the whole than he would do if he didn't have those levels in aristocrat.

Thanks Rob! :) You're still awesome. I appreciate the heads up.

I only ask because with 3 levels of aristocrat, he's not able to do dimensional steps. Unless I'm reading it wrong, I thought you needed to be an 8th level conjurer to use that ability.

Am I wrong?

Otherwise I'm okay with him being as is.

Mister Vic Wertz,

I just wanted to say I noticed that Jade Regent #4 (House of Spirits) also didn't get bulleted. I was hoping someone might fix that.

PS, as long as quality products get shipped, I'll not bang my head when products ship later than previously announced.

Thank you Liz! :) Once again you are the Mistress of the Web.

While I doubt I'll get this for all my characters, I do think I'd like to try out this Folio at least once.

Alright so I know this is coming out in May, but why is it not yet linked or shown on the same page as Advanced Races and/or the new Character Folio?

*wonders what the chances are of seeing a list of monsters for this bestiary this week...*

WOOT!!! I know what major organ I'm selling for THIS puppy! :)

Thanks Bill! Soon I'll unleash the full furor of my favorite Mega-dungeon!

*grin evilly* All hail Orcus!!

@Erik: Quit throwing stuff on the floor! You're destroying the planet!

*Seriously this is an awesome box.* :)

That's how I would run it, yes. The rules are clear that those two archetypes don't work together, but if a player really wanted to do it, that is how I would rule it working.

K. Well I'll keep that in mind when I see them on the 16th. Or at least point it out to him. Thanks Cheapy.

Nightfall wrote:

Steelfiredragon wrote:

as Cheapy said, raw; no they do not, but you can homebrew it so that they do

Uhm how does one do that? I mean do I just ALLOW them to pick one or what?

If I were to allow it (and sure, why not? It's thematic.), I'd have the Oath Against Undeath abilities take precedence over the Undead Scourge abilities.

Why? Because Oaths can be changed whenever. Normal archetypes are set in stone. To me, this means that Oaths are "on top of" your normal archetype.

So what you're saying is I let him take the oath abilities OVER the Undead Scourge ones until he's done with his oath? Is that what you're saying?

as Cheapy said, raw; no they do not, but you can homebrew it so that they do

Uhm how does one do that? I mean do I just ALLOW them to pick one or what?

I've got a player that's doing that in my Carrion Crown game. So far it's not over powered (they're only 3rd level.) But I keep reading the archetypes and they don't seem to mesh.

Am I wrong that this isn't doable?

Atheisim in RPGs is one of several hot-button topcis that tends to get folks worked up.

I think it would be less of a problem is atheism in the REAL world didn't have to reflect atheism in a FANTASY world.

I mean it's like going to Santa's workshop and smacking Santa, yelling "You lying fat bastard! You don't exist!" If you were in such a world...

Just saying.

The whole underlying discussion of what is faith and what is atheisim in an RPG is, as a result, a tough topic to talk about. Especially if you're trying, as a publishing company, to appeal to as wide a group as you can without coming across as disrespecting atheists or religious folks.

So I tend to get evasive on the topic.

(ninja smoke)

I just want to say to all the atheists out there: I believe in Orcus and Santa Claus. So there. :P :)