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I can weigh in on this! My 12th level character, who is eagerly awaiting for when we get a local Eyes of the Ten going, is a Human Cavalier (1) Paladin (7) Hellknight (4). His name is Silver Crusader Bael of Iomadae, and has taken the Oath of Vegence, and the Oath Against Fiends. I agree with what thefortier said, and think that Iomadae would work much better for a paladin hellknight than Sarenrae would, for various reasons.

Bael is a stern Chelishman, born in Westcrown, and I try my best to play that into his play-style. He acts with utter certainty and confidence, his upbringing formulating his mind into a military one of rules and laws, and he only deviates from his plan if his allies or bystanders are in danger. He charges into battle with the fury of a thousand angels, and a thousand devils. His words are few, but when he speaks, it shakes others to their core with his conviction. He believes truly the only way to uphold the law, and to save the innocent, is to slaughter every creature that would do wrong. There are no exceptions in his wrath, no mercy for the wicked. Anyone evil and chaotic is smote with extreme prejudice. Out of combat, he is still a terrifying, mountain of a man. He does not have the kind touch a paladin normally carries. Instead, his touch is reserved for those of cruelty, and attempts to return the cruelty thrice-fold.

I play him as dark and scary. He makes children cry whenever they see him, but it isn't because he is trying to. Rather, he is a demonslayer by profession. His entire existence (And his entire build) is based around slaughtering evil creatures from other realms, or taking those of the material plane who wish harm on the innocent and doing his damnedest to make sure they stop breathing. He's haunted by the memories of the people he couldn't save, and the allies he held as they took their last breath. And there has been more than one ally that has died on him before. After fighting abominations for years on end, he's in a permanent state of trauma and dissociation. He loves all of those who do good and uphold the law, but he has been bathed in the bold of demons too many times for him to show it. He does what he does for them, and he can't even smile when he sees them safe.

Mechanically speaking, Gendarme Cavalier archetype, with the Order of the Star. Paladin Oath of Vegeance and Against Fiends. Hellknight, with the Order of the Godclaw. He has Intimidate maxed out, and has taken several feats to maximize its usage. Here's how I have him built out at 12th level, in case you were looking for tips.

Silver Crusader Bael of iomadae:

Human (Chelish heritage)
20 point buy as follows at first level
18 + 2 racail = 20 STR
13 DEX
14 CON
7 INT
7 WIS
13 CHA

4th Level Ability Increase to CHA
8th Level Ability Increase to DEX
12th Level Ability Increase to WIS

+6 Belt of Giant Strength
+4 Headband of Alluring Charisma

26 STR
14 DEX
14 CON
7 INT
8 WIS
18 CHA

1st Level: Cavalier 1 (Gendarme, Order of the Star (Iomadae))
Power Attack (From cavalier level)
Step up (Human bonus feat)
Furious Focus

2nd Level: Paladin 1 (Oath against fiends, Oath of Vengeance)

3rd Level: Paladin 2
Following Step

4th Level: Paladin 3
Fatigued Mercy

5th Level: Paladin 4
Blind Fight

6th Level: Hellknight 1 (Order of the Godclaw)

7th Level: Hellknight 2
Step up and Strike

8th Level: Paladin 5
Weapon bond

9th Level: Hellknight 3
Pantamic Faith (Travel Domain)
Compulsion force of will
Curnogon Smash

10th Level: Hellknight 4

11th Level: Paladin 6
Deadful Carnage
Dazed mercy

12th level: Paladin 7

A note I've found on any and every character ever that is a paladin. GET A SILVER SMITE BRACELET. I have seen many, many, many paladins at high level tables that don't have one. Even if you only have one level of paladin, that is THE BEST 16K you could ever spend. As for the rest of the equipment, tailor it to your needs. Bael uses a big greatsword. It is in fact a +1 Holy Cold Iron Greatsword. He has a pair of Inheritor's Gauntlets on, for when he needs to bane his weapon against evil outsiders for a little more umph. He's got a Cloak of the Dark Tapestry. He throws a +1 on his hellknight armor whenever he has any extra gold. He also carries a bronze griffon, because flying creatures outside are annoying.

I hope your hellknight paladin goes glorious! And I hope any of this helps.

Dark Archive

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Adamantine Dragon wrote:

Tactics, are you suggesting that invisibility is a one-way illusion? That would imply that if you cast invisibility on a door, you could see IN the room, but the creatures inside would still just see a door.

Is that seriously what you are suggesting?

It seemed to me he was saying that casting it inside the box (which you mentioned earlier as not automatically extending to the outside of the box) should permeate the entire spell target, else one-way mirror shenanigans occur.

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Detect magic does not allow someone to detect invisibility. There is a separate spell for that entirely (See Invisibility). If Detect Magic allowed the detection of invisibility, then you would be defeating a 2nd level spell with a cantrip. This is a no-no (see Light spell vs darkness spell vs daylight spell vs deeper darkness). The material of the box itself, all of it, becomes infused in this magic, even if you cast it from the inside

As far as seeing you, inside the box, that's a different mater. You would be invisible, I believe they would not be able to see you. I base this on this

Invisibility:
The creature or object touched becomes invisible. If the recipient is a creature carrying gear, that vanishes, too. If you cast the spell on someone else, neither you nor your allies can see the subject, unless you can normally see invisible things or you employ magic to do so.

Items dropped or put down by an invisible creature become visible; items picked up disappear if tucked into the clothing or pouches worn by the creature. Light, however, never becomes invisible, although a source of light can become so (thus, the effect is that of a light with no visible source). Any part of an item that the subject carries but that extends more than 10 feet from it becomes visible.

Of course, the subject is not magically silenced, and certain other conditions can render the recipient detectable (such as swimming in water or stepping in a puddle). If a check is required, a stationary invisible creature has a +40 bonus on its Stealth checks. This bonus is reduced to +20 if the creature is moving. The spell ends if the subject attacks any creature. For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe. Exactly who is a foe depends on the invisible character's perceptions. Actions directed at unattended objects do not break the spell. Causing harm indirectly is not an attack. Thus, an invisible being can open doors, talk, eat, climb stairs, summon monsters and have them attack, cut the ropes holding a rope bridge while enemies are on the bridge, remotely trigger traps, open a portcullis to release attack dogs, and so forth. If the subject attacks directly, however, it immediately becomes visible along with all its gear. Spells such as bless that specifically affect allies but not foes are not attacks for this purpose, even when they include foes in their area.

Invisibility can be made permanent (on objects only) with a permanency spell.


I know it's a stretch, but imagine yourself as the object being put inside the pocket. That's why people can't see you. It is a lead box, so divination spells (such as detect evil/good/law/chaos) that state they can be stopped by lead will not see you inside of it.

Also, hope you can either hold your breath, don't need to breathe, or have air holes.

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UltimaGabe wrote:
GroovyTaxi wrote:
Why does every build, every guide I see puts a lot of importance on scimitars? What's so special about them that the magus needs? I'm guessing it's related to the high critical rate, but why would the magus pick this rather than, say, a longsword?

I don't understand your confusion. You said yourself you guess it's related to the high critical rate, and then you ask why someone would choose that over a weapon with less of a critical rate.

Magi can apply their weapon's critical threat range (not the multiplier) to their spells. So it would make sense for every magus (or at least most magi) to pick a weapon with the best critical range possible. 18-20 is, of course, the best critical range possible, better than a longsword's 19-20. You had it figured out all along.

I don't think that was all of the confusion. I think he meant to say something else with an 18-20 crit range, such as, say, a rapier, or a urumi, or rhoka. And, for that reason, it doesn't mater all that much. The difference is in the build of character. If you are going for a human magus, or a half-elf / half-orc, where you can stick that extra +2 anywhere, go with a weapon you can get strength bonus on. You can get a strength bonus with a scimitar, if you want.

BUT, and this is a big BUT, that isn't what most magi are. I, for one, prefer an elven magus or a tiefling magus. Why, might you ask? Because of the extra +2 int, and the +2 dex (And the -2 somewhere else).

Now, while the scimitar doesn't make sense yet, here's what you do. 1st level feat? Weapon Finease. Great, now you can make your rapier swirl around faster, but not your scimitar. Yet. 3rd level feat goes into Dervish Dance. Now what do you have? You have a magus that has their dex as both their + to damage and to hit. Which means you can take your strength and dump it down to 7, and get an extra 4 points if you are using the point-buy system.

Admitidly, you'll suck the first two levels. But it won't mater, the first two levels, in the long run. Because you'll kick so much butt in the upcoming 10-18 levels that you won't care that you had a hard time hitting with your weapon the first few.

Another thing is that, with your dex high, you can do things that a strength-based magus can't. So what if you can't hit with your sword? You'll be able to acid-splash like none-other, because you'll hit. Every. Time. That +4 or +5 dex bonus helps with those ranged touch attacks.