How would you distribute the scores on a 20-pt buy, with the stipulation that 13 Wis is a requirement for Keen Scent, which I'm thinking is rather nice?
One error in your first post is the inclusion of 5 level up bonuses; that said, I will give two distributions that match your original as closely as possible.
Disregarding all magical items and boosts, a possible distribution is (assuming you gave STR one too many level up bonuses):
Quote:
STR 15+2 (racial) + 4 (lvl) -> 21
DEX 14
CON 15 (or 14)
INT 10 (or 12)
WIS 14
CHA 7
This will grant you an extra 1 CON or 2 INT compared to your build, without dropping any other stat. If you would rather have STR at an even number, consider this:
Quote:
STR 16+2 -> 22
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 11
WIS 13
CHA 7
or
Quote:
STR 16+2 -> 22
DEX 14
CON 12
INT 12
WIS 14
CHA 7
Unfortunately, STR 22/DEX 14/CON 14/WIS 14 can't be reached without dumping INT as well as CHA unless you reach level 20.
In all of this, I'm wondering- can anyone think of an example in which a penalty to an ability/skill (other than initiative) retroactively influences the result of a check made with that ability/skill?
I can't think of anything right now, though someone might know a case... But as far as I know this goes or the entire system; once you've rolled for a check and the results have been applied (so taking rerolls and other immediate actions into account), that's it.
So for initiative checks, roll to find your starting initiative- and your initiative can be altered by readying and delaying throughout combat, but the result of your check can't be altered once applied, as far as I know.
This has recently been FAQ'ed, so this should be the answer you're looking for.
LazarX wrote:
Since no such ability exists in the Paizo rules that I know of, you're going to have to come out and get specific with your question. What is the context for both parts of your question?
That trait replaces Cha with Int. It does not boost Cha with Int as the OP's text implies. If that's what he's asking about, then that's all the trait does. It has no other impact. It does make the Circlet of Persuasion useless for Diplomacy.
His wording isn't plain enough, but between the title and his question I don't think he meant "boost" how you interpreted it. It looks like he meant it as in "the boost that int gives" as in "what if I use my int instead of cha".
This is indeed how I read the OP's question, considering he explicitly mentioned not using charisma for the check.
This has recently been FAQ'ed, so this should be the answer you're looking for.
LazarX wrote:
Since no such ability exists in the Paizo rules that I know of, you're going to have to come out and get specific with your question. What is the context for both parts of your question?
Lots of great feedback on all the sites! Curious on those of you who use the AoN, since it seems like the topic of the day is now on our 3rd party sites:
1. Background - Would a simple color swap of black and white fix most of the issues? I've been thinking about redoing the CSS to have the white background and black text, since it is a common request.
2. Search - I developed the entire engine myself for fun, but if there are better already made engines out there that I could plugin, I'd love to know about them. I've thought about sticking a google search engine on the site for one.
1. I am quite fond of the black background myself; it's different compared to most other sites, but I find it pleasant on the eyes.
2. Based on my experience with the google search on d20pfsrd, I must say I prefer your search engine; the results are delineated in a more cohesive manner and are often more relevant to what I was looking for.
I have to thank you for this effort- I am pretty sure my group will appreciate this clear overview of everything (especially the feats being sorted by feature- that is amazing)!
Let's make two arguments for two discussions here. One; what is the benefit of the feat Weapon Finesse, and two, what does "benefits" in Swashbuckler Finesse refer to.
=-=-=-=
First, Let's look at Weapon Finesse again.
Quote:
Weapon Finesse (Combat)
You are trained in using your agility in melee combat, as opposed to brute strength.
Benefit: With a light weapon, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls. If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty applies to your attack rolls.
Special: Natural weapons are considered light weapons.
You are absolutely right; the weapon selection is emphasized in the benefit section. But is it part of the benefit?
Let's look at another feat, emphasis mine.
Quote:
Vital Strike (Combat)
You make a single attack that deals significantly more damage than normal.
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage. Roll the weapon's damage dice for the attack twice and add the results together before adding bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming), precision based damage, and other damage bonuses. These extra weapon damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, but are added to the total.
If you look at most feats, this is a common occurrence; some sort of conditional requirement to stipulate when the feat applies. Weapon Finesse applies when you use one of the weapons provided in the feat- it is not a benefit, it's a requirement to gain the benefit of Weapon Finesse- the ability to obtain DEX to attack instead of STR.
It follows, then, that Swashbuckler Finesse simply modifies the requirement to obtain the benefits of Weapon Finesse.
=-=-=-=
Now, if you're arguing that the definition of "benefits" is unclear, let's take a look at Swashbuckler Finesse. Emphasis mine.
Quote:
Swashbuckler Finesse (Ex): At 1st level, a swashbuckler gains the benefits of the Weapon Finesse feat with light or one-handed piercing melee weapons, and she can use her Charisma score in place of Intelligence as a prerequisite for combat feats. This ability counts as having the Weapon Finesse feat for purposes of meeting feat prerequisites.
I only highlighted the word "benefits" here, but it says enough. Compare to the feat Weapon Finesse:
Quote:
Weapon Finesse (Combat)
You are trained in using your agility in melee combat, as opposed to brute strength.
Benefit: With a light weapon, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls. If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty applies to your attack rolls.
Special: Natural weapons are considered light weapons.
If Swashbuckler Finesse referred to the entire section, it would have been spelled as "benefit", not "benefits" (though had it been spelled "benefit" it would not have been conclusive evidence of such a case, either); as a game term, a feat only has one benefit, not multiple. It then follows it is not used as a game term in Swashbuckler Finesse, but rather, as an English term; the benefits would be being able to use a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon with DEX to attack rolls instead of STR.
Assuming the initiative can't rely on any short-term buffs, and only using Core/PFS allowed races, Kensai 8/Inquisitor 2/Diviner 10 for +50 is the highest modifier I can get, but no auto-taking 20 for him.
Start off with 13/14/15 in your mental stats; doesn't matter which one goes where. Be a Human for the Dual Talented alternate trait, and use your +2 ability score modifiers on any two of your mental stats. Add +5 inherent, +6 enhancement, and +3 age to each of your mental stats, and divide your +5 untyped bonuses from being level 20 across them. Your stats should now look something like Int 34/Wis 31/Cha 28, for +12/+10/+9, giving you +31 from your ability scores.
+4 Improved Initiative, +4 Familiar (Dodo/Rabbit/Compsognathus etc.), +2 Trait (Reactionary), +4 for a Dueling weapon and +5 for being a level 10 Diviner gives another +19, for a total modifier of +50.
Take the Tactics Domain for your Inquisitor levels, and you can now roll Initiative twice, taking the higher result.
===
If non-Core/PFS are allowed, be an Ifrit with the Wildfire Heart alternate Racial Trait. This will change your ability scores to Int 32/Wis 27/Cha 30 for an ability modifier of +30, but grants you an additional +4 Racial bonus to initiative for a total modifier of +53.
you need inq 8 for tactics, not 2
That's the Tactics Inquisition. I'm using the Tactics Domain to roll twice (and the Inquisitor 2 ability Cunning Initiative for the Wisdom to Initiative)
for an initiative score of 1d20+46:
so initiative of 47-66 with average of 56.5
Noble Scion of War replaces your Dexterity modifier to Initiative with your Charisma modifier, it doesn't add your Charisma modifier on top of your Dexterity modifier.
Assuming the initiative can't rely on any short-term buffs, and only using Core/PFS allowed races, Kensai 8/Inquisitor 2/Diviner 10 for +50 is the highest modifier I can get, but no auto-taking 20 for him.
Start off with 13/14/15 in your mental stats; doesn't matter which one goes where. Be a Human for the Dual Talented alternate trait, and use your +2 ability score modifiers on any two of your mental stats. Add +5 inherent, +6 enhancement, and +3 age to each of your mental stats, and divide your +5 untyped bonuses from being level 20 across them. Your stats should now look something like Int 34/Wis 31/Cha 28, for +12/+10/+9, giving you +31 from your ability scores.
+4 Improved Initiative, +4 Familiar (Dodo/Rabbit/Compsognathus etc.), +2 Trait (Reactionary), +4 for a Dueling weapon and +5 for being a level 10 Diviner gives another +19, for a total modifier of +50.
Take the Tactics Domain for your Inquisitor levels, and you can now roll Initiative twice, taking the higher result.
===
If non-Core/PFS are allowed, be an Ifrit with the Wildfire Heart alternate Racial Trait. This will change your ability scores to Int 32/Wis 27/Cha 30 for an ability modifier of +30, but grants you an additional +4 Racial bonus to initiative for a total modifier of +53.
EDIT: Noble Scion of War for the Charisma instead of Dexterity to Initiative, Kensai for Intelligence to Initiative, and Inquisitor for the Wisdom to Initiative.
I've used a few of these as NPCs, have seen a few in play, and have played a few. They might occupy a very small niche only, but when you do need that niche, it's nice to have a prestige class that fits it.
My favourite ones are probably Shadowdancer and Master Spy... Shadowdancer because of the Malazan book of the Fallen, and the Master Spy because you can just do something plain nasty with them.
Pathfinder Savant - NPC
Battle Herald - NPC
Magambyan Arcanist - Planned
Red Mantis Assassin - PC, will take levels in this soon
Pathfinder Delver - NPC, Planned PC
Evangelist - PC
Horizon Walker - PC, mine
Justiciar - PC, not mine
Master Spy - NPC
Master Spy:
Give a Doppelganger class levels in this. If it's a high level character, you can turn into an absolutely perfect copy of any other character, you gain magical protection to keep you from being detected, and you gain a bonus to bluff... So much synergy there. I've only just introduced that NPC to my players, but already it's wreaking havoc on their minds. He's gonna make for a fun long-term enemy.
First build had him as a blaster, but as I kept on making small changes he's more of a general arcane magician.
Human Slayer 6, N
Built as a jack-of-all-trades as I got screwed over by a lack of options by a previous martial character... And by my penchant of rolling a natural 1 on attack rolls, which combined with the critical fumble house rule has been the source of many frustrations. Still, having 6 weapons proved to be just enough during the last session...
Human Alchemist (Vivisectionist) 6, NE
A deranged man looking for eternal life in any possible way, no matter the consequences to his soul- he figures he'll live forever regardless.
Lined up are a Half-Orc Bard (NG) that worships Shelyn, a Half-Elf Magus pirate (CN), a Human Summoner with a penchant for dragons (LG) and a Dwarf Cavalier (LN) that has a bear as mount... I quite like my characters varied.
1. Slayer- My favourite non-magical class. Plenty of options in and out of combat, and isn't bogged down by class features that are too intense. A good introductory class for new players as the combat style talents direct you to pick combat feats that work well together, unlike the fighter's completely free-form feats which might be overwhelming or the ranger's spellcasting.
2. Barbarian- The opposite of the skilled Slayer, as someone earlier in this thread already mentioned. Great for those who want to play a martial a bit more wild.
Middle Ground
3. Bard- My favourite support caster and skill monkey, a proper jack-of-all-trades. Well, nearly all trades. Still, it's hard to go wrong with one in a party.
4. Inquisitor- I've never played one, but I do intend to make up for that shortcoming sometime soon. A skillful, spontaneous divine caster who is a bit more focused on combat with judgements and bane than a bard, but it's hard to go wrong with this one too.
Full Casters
5. Arcanist- Apparently it's pretty powerful, but my main draw is the combination of both Wizard and Sorcerer aspects. I'm a fan of the Sorcerer, but I know the Wizard would fill a bigger niche than the Sorcerer would- this is my way of getting what I want and what I should include.
6. Cleric- If I knew more about the Shaman, that might have taken this spot. Once again, although I'm more of a fan of the Oracle than the Cleric, I do think a Cleric is more viable as a class in this situation. Many of the spells on their spell list are very situational, and with the Oracle having only a limited number of known spells, it's hard to justify their inclusion because of the spell list. In a world without Clerics, scrolls of those situational spells would be hard to come by too.
The Others
7. Alchemist- The flavour of this class nets it the 7th spot. It's magic, but not-magic at the same time, making it possible to be used in a variety of settings.
8. Cavalier- I really wanted to put either a Magus here, or a Monk, but in the end I decided to take the Cavalier. I'm quite fond of making important NPCs of a more flavorful class than the NPC classes can provide. While a lot of character concepts can be made with the aforementioned classes, I feel that there's not much there for a non-magical soldier, officer, or noble going around. The cavalier fills that niche quite comfortably.
I'd say Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes, Goblins, Orcs, Elementals. Half-variants would be created by applying templates, whereas flavours of elf would be created by different sets of race traits. Goblins over Kobolds because I like Goblins more. Gnomes over Kobolds because it's easier to imagine a Gnome/Goblin rivalry than a Goblin/Kobold rivalry.
How is it an assumption? Where in the feat does it say you have to craft the weapon in question and not just imbue it with magic? The assumption is yours.
Where does it say you don't craft it?
Craft Magic Arms and Armor (Item Creation) wrote:
You can create magic armor, shields, and weapons.
Prerequisite: Caster level 5th.
Benefit: You can create magic weapons, armor, or shields. Enhancing a weapon, suit of armor, or shield takes 1 day for each 1,000 gp in the price of its magical features. To enhance a weapon, suit of armor, or shield, you must use up raw materials costing half of this total price.
The weapon, armor, or shield to be enhanced must be a masterwork item that you provide. Its cost is not included in the above cost.
You can also mend a broken magic weapon, suit of armor, or shield if it is one that you could make. Doing so costs half the raw materials and half the time it would take to craft that item in the first place.
You have to provide a masterwork weapon to be able to enhance. You don't make it with this check.
You do not need any particular Craft skill to be able to craft Wondrous Items. Usually, Spellcraft is the associated skill, but Master Craftsman allows you to take any single Craft skill and use that in conjunction with the Craft Magic Arms and Armor and/or Craft Wondrous Items feat(s).
Yes, this means it is able to use, for instance, Craft (Calligraphy) to add magical abilities to a sword. Or to make wondrous items.
You don't need a specific Craft skill each for arms, armor and wondrous items. In fact, it is impossible as the Master Craftsman feat only allows you to select one Craft skill.
You DO need the appropriate craft skill for the item that you wish to make. Given that wondrous items makes almost bloody everything you have the choice of boning up on a lot of craft feats or specialising in specific items. Craft Jewelry however covers a lot of items such as necklaces, brooches, amulets, etc. It covers rings as well, but you need a different feat to craft them. Keep in mind that the Master Craftsman feat only allows you to enchant items that you personally make yourself, so the craft skill is relevant and neccessary
Master Craftsman
Your superior crafting skills allow you to create simple magic items.
Prerequisites: 5 ranks in any Craft or Profession skill.
Benefit: Choose one Craft or Profession skill in which you possess at least 5 ranks. You receive a +2 bonus on your chosen Craft or Profession skill. Ranks in your chosen skill count as your caster level for the purposes of qualifying for the Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Craft Wondrous Item feats. You can create magic items using these feats, substituting your ranks in the chosen skill for your total caster level. You must use the chosen skill for the check to create the item. The DC to create the item still increases for any necessary spell requirements (see the magic item creation rules in Magic Items). You cannot use this feat to create any...
Just to reiterate (in case anyone gets the idea I still support that stance): I've since arrived at a conclusion different than the one in my initial post, as I've stated earlier in this thread as well. There is no need to debate my post, as it's since moved on to other people.
But yes, the bolded sentence was the exact phrase that caused me to read into the feat too much.
You do not need any particular Craft skill to be able to craft Wondrous Items. Usually, Spellcraft is the associated skill, but Master Craftsman allows you to take any single Craft skill and use that in conjunction with the Craft Magic Arms and Armor and/or Craft Wondrous Items feat(s).
Yes, this means it is able to use, for instance, Craft (Calligraphy) to add magical abilities to a sword. Or to make wondrous items.
You don't need a specific Craft skill each for arms, armor and wondrous items. In fact, it is impossible as the Master Craftsman feat only allows you to select one Craft skill.
Actually, you DO need a specific Craft skill for each weapon/armor/type of wondrous item.
It's because each one need either Spellcraft or a specific craft or profession, and you must use the selected craft skill.
To craft armor with Master craftsman, you need to use Craft (armor).
To craft bows (and arrows), you need Craft (bows).
To craft any other weapons, you need craft (weapons).
To craft a wondrous item, you need the applicable Craft (it depends on the item, it could be jewelry for amulets and ioun stones, cloth making for cloaks and boots, etc...)
So, no, you can't craft any wondrous items with just Master craftsman feat associated with Craft (basket weaving).
Hmmm. I have to agree my first post is likely in error upon reviewing the rules concerned once more. It does, indeed, state nowhere that you can (or can't) supersede appropriate skill checks as stated in the magic item creation rules with different skill checks. Seeing as this is the case, the more probable reading is to assume the feat does not allow you to do so.
I most likely read too much into the feat, specifically, "You must use the chosen skill for the check to create the item", taking the "must" to mean the chosen skill could be used anywhere.
My apologies for causing confusion with my first interpretation.
You do not need any particular Craft skill to be able to craft Wondrous Items. Usually, Spellcraft is the associated skill, but Master Craftsman allows you to take any single Craft skill and use that in conjunction with the Craft Magic Arms and Armor and/or Craft Wondrous Items feat(s).
Yes, this means it is able to use, for instance, Craft (Calligraphy) to add magical abilities to a sword. Or to make wondrous items.
You don't need a specific Craft skill each for arms, armor and wondrous items. In fact, it is impossible as the Master Craftsman feat only allows you to select one Craft skill.
Ok, this has gotten fairly off-track, but I'm going to weigh in in support of "I don't see how this is different from sorcerer bloodline arcana." So I would allow a cleric to spontaneously convert their spells into the same or lower level cure spells.
Where I'm going to draw a distinction is that I'd allow you to switch to wizard spells from wizard spells. So a witch could do it if they have the appropriate spells known. A druid could convert (although not as efficiently).
The sharing of spell lists and slots is a pretty significant theurge ability, so I feel comfortable being a stickler there.
All that said, it's hard to argue with the PDT. :-)
I don't tend to wade into rules debates much, but this is pretty much my understanding of the ability (as it stands now, in RAW) upon reading it and the FAQ.
Yes, it allows you to lose spells of any class to convert them to "Cure" spells of the same level or lower.
But nowhere does it state it allows you to convert spell slots of a class to spell slots of another. (I can't find the general rules text on this right now, but if my understanding of a general inability to convert spell slots of one class into a spell slot of another class is wrong I'd like someone to point that out to me, no snark intended)
Seeing as there are no "Cure" spells on the wizard's list, they can lose their spells... But they have no appropriate spells to convert them to, so the ability is rather useless.
Witches, Bards, and any other class that also has "Cure" spells on their list... That would work. Going by each class' specific progression, and using each classes' own spell slots.
All of this is my interpretation of the language as it's written, anyway.
Pretty sure the cleaner will either be a slayer (or rogue, but slayer fits the bill better); I've heard the term being used in the context of either cleaning up evidence and witnesses or in the context of getting rid of traitors and moles... Kinda like internal affairs, mafia style.
Wildcallers (Summoner archetype) get all Summon Nature's Ally spells as spell-like ability (and some on their spell list), if I recall correctly, as well as Summon Elder Worm and Summon Froghemoth.
So, in a few hours it'll be my first time DMing in ever (I'm not the usual DM for our group, there is more of a round-robin thing going on and sessions are quite irregular). Because I didn't want any misunderstandings to occur during play I distributed a document containing some houserules and clarification on some core rules which- in my assumption- had been misinterpreted in our past sessions.
Not everyone agreed with my interpretation, and I would like to see this cleared up before our session begins:
If a character (let's call him Alex) moves out of a square (using a move action, not a 5-foot step) threatened by someone wielding a reach weapon (let's call him Bob) in order to move next to Bob and to attack Bob, does Bob get an attack of opportunity or not?
It is my understanding that Bob does indeed get an attack of opportunity against Alex, whereas it is my players' understanding this would only be covered by Bob readying an attack action (presumably with the trigger "Alex moves into range")- which I presume to be an entirely separate mechanic and does not interact with Bob getting an Attack of Opportunity on Alex.
