This game do not have custom chat channels to track events/ gather intel in real time. This game do not have company and/or settlement storages so players must wait for each other to move materials/products from the gatherer down to the user of finished product. This game do not have NPC warriors to form (relatively) safe zones. Right now.
But we have some unpolished PvP mechanics and we were encouraged to do some PvP (alpha towers removal).
This is work in progress and all that, but if the people drops out of game by whole settlement something goes seriously wrong. Small settlements must be jack-of-all-trades and giving them more trouble due to clunky communication and trade system while pushing people into fights is a bad thing imo.
I'll miss BWG guys - they were adding another bit of content to PFO. Currently I have only two things which holds me in this game - people in my settlement (what we did and what we're doing) and some fun that I derive from my in-game activities.
2 months later my free time in PFO will come to an end. And I don't know if this game will be user-friendly enough for me to pay for subscription later.
I hate to see this game become second Darkfall. Stepping on the same rakes twice is unwise.
Ha! I think the reason you're not seeing the kitchen/storage/servant's quarters is that you're mistaking them for an "alchemical lab with secret bedrooms." Check out the lower floor again ... especially the part labeled "oven."
...
Marlagram wrote:
- two haunts are good for exploration mission, but I do not understand how to run social event adventures here.
Me neither, but remember, if this was part of an adventure, we would have story context. I'm intrigued! Or, if using the map alone, I could come up with a few possibilities: The lady is alive and well but her ancestors 'reside' here with her. The lady is (secretly?) undead, but she likes to host parties. The lady is deceased and entombed here, but her loyal servants and/or preservative magic have kept the place in good repair. Many possibilities...
...
OK you got me on the kitchen part. My bad. :) Now other question arise but htey are minor compared to previous one.
So this is dwarven lady with five gnome/halfling/svirfneblin servants/actors. Way better than my first conclusion.
I hate to be totally negative, so here's some positive things still not mentioned about this map:
- a lot of details and they're placed so good that GM will always know where PC/NPC stands (this is a lot of work)
- this map have all the noble may need without wandering into Darklands
...well, almost.
Now about other side of the things:
- this noble is a gnome I'm sure for any medium creature should squeeze through half of the doors and passages
- with all these bedrooms, bar and dining room this estate lacks kitchen, food and water storage and, well, refreshers
- the noble lady had very strange areas of interests because she had chapel in NE, theatre in NW, alchemical lab with secret bedrooms (or is this torture room with cells?), library, bar and secret crypt right in the middle of all that
- two haunts are good for exploration mission, but I do not understand how to run social event adventures here.
I can see sheer volume of work and imagination put here, but I'll not use this map in my game.
Positive things noted:
- good ice cavern map (hard to find these days)
- dynamic map.
Negatives:
- font too small for designated resolution
- (last in order but first on my list) lava + ice will give us a lot of scalding steam, some obscuring steam and some icy mist, not to mention a few explosions in the process.
Dynamic map for such tricky environment is next to impossible to draw imo.
Staves have been a bad category for me. If I read your staff, and you did a good job, you had:
1. A series of related spells.
2. An enhancement bonus
3. A skill bonus.
At this point, you need something else. If all you had was summarized above, it's not a Superstar item. Sorry, you knew it was hard mode.
IMO if any one staff have spells and enhancement bonus and skill bonus (not to mention cool power atop of all this), such staff goes right into the cathegory of Staves of Ungodly Prices and Divine Prerequisites. :) Not much people will craft them and would-be buyers may consider other options to spend their money. Staves are a cool implements to cast spells with some unusual twists or at somewhat unexpected caster levels. This is just my opinion, but please correct me if I'm wrong. I've made errors in the past and will make them in the future I swear!
That said, I've seen very, very few items that HAVE given me the 'wow' factor, so. Who knows?
I concur. In my opinion my item is not in a "wow!" cathegory too, more like "yes, of course!" kind of item. But I have seen only few items I can define as "well done!" or "not so bad!". So I still have hope.
I saw for now only one item with the price 200k+ which actually can be ordered by someone with that amount of money. All other items in this price range failed my test of "who'll craft/who'll by this thing".
Another first-timer here :)
I've payed too little attention to RPGSS in the past years and missed it for two years in a row. Now I've got the mention abot Superstar in server downtime notification on Paizo boards and jumped right in. I'm still unsure if that was wise move on my part. :)
Some ideas for small things:
1. A lone guy fighting 3 mobs in T1 armor. His lifebar decreases rapidly. Same guy changes from T1 to T2 armor of the same type. Next fight his lifebar decreases much slower. (to illustrate difference between T1 and T2)
2. A lone player trying to kill mobs with wraith's cry. Goblins are going down in two bursts, wolves+hunters kill player. 2 players with wraith's cry attacks tough encounter, trying not to kill each other. (to illustrate coordination and friendly fire concepts)
3. 4 people gathering different mats, several refiners making components, then one crafter making single piece of stuff. (to show the need for cooperation in crafting)
Many positive things promised are not in game yet, so there is no sense in showing them imo.
In crafting queue when you add recipe to queue and you still have the same mix of mats in your inventory this mix transfers on the mixing table (right panel) so you can press "add to queue" without another round of adding and removing stuff. No mats wasted.
Just my observation.
Right now game have no checks for the trees and ground suface along the line of spell. You can shoot things on the other side of the hill. What you can do to poor things in the deep caves better be left to your imagination :) So we'll have no deep caves for a long time, imo.
Tried this game twice. No crashes which is good. Haven't found goblins for the tutorial quest. No problem - killed a few omega wolves , got jumped by bandits (probably on crossing the hex border as Bluddwolf suggests). I've gathered stuff and got to the TK. Then I've killed 3 goblins in that heighborhood dut got no notices about quest completion. NP - here are things to do anyway.
2 glitches up to date. First one - after going into and out of stealth my character became "permanently stealthed". His speed didn't dropped anymore and he looks shadowy all the time. Second glitch relates to the walls around entrance to clerical training ruins - they are passable.
All in all game looks good - for the a;pha. Now if we have slightly more tooltips and slightly bigger font... :)
Good job GW!
Actually here are some people who thinks about other players behind their characters. We are just not so vocal and numerous as other kinds of players. ;)
PvP adds some degree of "realism" to sandbox. PvP also keeps some undesirable activities in check so I will rather vote for PvP. Main problem of any MMO game with emulation of any RL patterns is: internal mechanic of MMO is different from RL.
In RL we have much more tools to interact with our environment than destroy/access/use single function. In RL we have no immortal crazies who can pop into and out of the world with 15-second delay. Yes we have thieves, bullies, maniacs and lot of other deviant people (including geniuses and extraordinary leaders too) but nobody tries to build whole society around these types. And main goal in RL for most of us is "live well" - not "have fun". What people considers to be "living well" varies.
Diversity of possible activities (more ways to play as celestialiar wrote) is one of the mechanics to dilute much of the problems of modern MMO. I'm all for this. PFO will use two other ways to make world functional - large game space and consequences of players' activity. They also will introduce escalations to nudge players into cooperation.
And yes, item deterioration, everyday needs and upkeeps, NPC economics and politics will not make in this game - but I'll play with any tools devs will give me. GW is small company - they can't deliver all the things at once. So I'll try to help shape this game into a good place to play.
On this fateful day I'll show you how our elves will turn into the gnomes. Well right now we have no plans about Rome falling on anything, but your idea have great potential... :D
Ten days later...
I shall congratulate all the folk who cast their votes with us. Nobody knows how things will turn out, but the names of those who had made us win our place among the first settlements of PFO will forever be kept in the chronicles of Forgeholm (and in a few files on remote hard drives too :)).
Dwarves remember their enemies for a long time. The same is true about our friends. We will remember you with gratitude even if we will part our ways later.
If you're new on this forum, Forgeholm is settlement for all those who want to play dwarves and other people who values dwarven qualities - enduranse, stability, skill with pick, hammer and axe.
We're LN - one dwarven settlement cannot support all famous dwarven alignments. So if you want to play NG or CG or even CN dwarf consider joining Tavernhold - home for our more... unruly kin among the other races.
Join us in our quest for making this corner of Golarion a better place to live - and a proper mountain home of course! Join Forgeholm!
Limiting anything to "per Account" just means it can be easily bypassed by getting another account, which won't be any more difficult than getting another character.
You only need to spend additional $50 per new account and $15/month to have second item of same kind. Many of us will have 2-3 accounts if this game will be interesting enough, but I doubt that many of us will have 5-6. But who knows?
And just my opinion. For me $50/$200 and limit of one per account is a way to limit usability of premium items if they will lean even slightly to "pay-to-win" side. Right now I can imagine some very powerful uses for these things, but in a few months their value will be about on par with what we will craft by ourselves.
In my opinion only pay-to-win aspect here is ability to use options that will be absent in the game at the day 1. Smallholds actually allow you to have forward respawn points and ability to hide your 40-man unit. Both of these abilities will be implemented before OE starts but for now they are somewhat overpowered.
Edit: spelling and grammar
This is not my damn business and not my war, so I've kept my mouth shut, but your last post did the trick, BurnHavoc.
I don't know whay was happened in your settlement. You and Gpunk can be saints (low probability, but still...), people you kicked out can be hell incarnate (low probability too, but who knows?) - but I had read about your actions. And these actions were:
1. Set the shop under some promise. People come here assuming things will go as promised. I was amazed, actually with your key idea. You were only other guys who set their goals for themselves outside of "compete with other guys" field (Forgeholm did this too). And you set your difficulty level way higher than we did. Organically growing democrcy - wow! I didn't know how you can pull that - and you did not too.
2. Only asset that mattered in LR2 was votes of the players. These votes lose much of their significance after LR was finalized. People brought their votes to you. So you secured your spot with the sound number of votes and grand total of 40+ with hunker down bomus.
3. Then you changed your promise (sorry, I don't know polite word fir this in English) and after some bickering booted out all the folk who didn't agree wtih you. You have thir votes and your settlement now, They have nothing, but some dirty laundry. And you call this move "fumigation".
You had your reasons and probably lots of hurt feelongs. But you've cheated your neighbors and now you're trying to show us how bad they were. Wprse still you can't now even return votes to these guys - you part your ways with their stuff in your bags.
If you you can correct me or tell me why I can trust your future declarations I'll be happy to hear where I was wrong.
P.S. This is my personal opinion, not the official stance of my settlement.
Hey, we already have at least two humans! So our human friends are welcome too.
Well and we have at least one strange elf who's telling about him being a polymorphed gnome...
We are LN so we don't have cookies - that means we have no cookie-cutter content too. But we have all sorts of beverages. Configuration of your system of caves is crucial factor when you make dvarven strong drinks. And we have rmountains for these caves.
Join Forgeholm - be a warrior, a crafter, a dwarf!
14 hours left - let your vote counts!
Caldeathe, we as would-be players can't tell other gamers anythig other than alpha experience of some of us or share our hopes, guesses and GW's promises. Many sites took a note about PFO in the last two years and now they are waiting for game to start in one form or another. Alpha as it is goes more about building basics of the game, not actual game experience. Until MVP comes out I can't say anything (positive or negative) about PFO. I prefer not to tell tall tales to other people (unless I'm GMing ofc :) ).
I may be wrong and PFO may be in dire need for a fresh blood on these forums. Well 'till devs will say something along these lines I'll refrain from another wave of advertisement for our forums.
Just my opinion.
So basically OP wants from us to go to MMORG, ake a few posts each (spamming their forums in the process) to make PFO more enticing for the people over there. So these people can visit PFO foruns and participate here starting from asking questions and making proposals we've made and discussed for last 3 years?
Ryan stated that GW want to start small and then expand. I'll be happy to make some noise on MMORPG when EE will be at least in the month 2 - with some working features and in-game activity that counts and matters. Brfore that this will be just additional noise IMO.
Why to convince them? Just imagine: us and them in our lonely mountain corner, far away from the rest of the map, and they've just moved into our place... This will be very engaging and intriguing situation :D
OK, back to topic :)
- If you like letter L in your alignment description
- OR if you think about being TN and be proud about it
- If you like work hard, fight hard and play hard
- If you like community where your voice will be heard and your vote counts
- If you like to make your ideas reality and you like to help others to do the same
- If you're comfortable with moderate to heavy RP, but where most RP is done by deeds, not by words (that is nobody asks you to speak in medieval English or Welsh or even to speak at all)
Consider taking a look or even joining Forgeholm - home of dwarves and all dwarf-friends!
We are LN, we are in the mountains, we put ourselves in the hard place so we can play hard. Basic training in both martial and industrial arts is required, but rest of your XP is up to you. We still have much to decide about our policies and your voice will matters!
(spoken in Taldan with heavy Brevoy accent, so sorry for the errors)
All aligments will have their pros and cons. As some behaviors (which will define alignments) are more harmful to the game than others they are done with less plusses and more penalties. Under harmful I mean both for the spirit of community and continued existence of PFO. So having some CE guys is OK, CG horde trampling RK in the search of beer is not. (Tavernhold guys, no offence, I like your style, but just imagine server full of thirsty caydenutes.... there will be only ruins and empty barrels in the end :D)
Balance doesn't mean equality in all things - this is bane of most modern MMO classes and factions. I contend with what devs are doing now.
Edit: Most of my points vere explained in the posts above :(
...and then devs will tweak few things here and there and whole herd of optimizers will stampede to the next "best alignment"?
I don't think so. I think here will be few guys of NE-CE variety, but that's all. For now strategy of your settlement affects choice of settlement's alignment.
I personally have nothing against having few squads of yeomen or warband of natives in my settlement. :)
Besides, commoners have higher status in RK than in the rest of Golarion - high-quality laborers are hard to find here and they have right of free people to go away at any moment. (iirc Guide to River Kingdoms)
And there will be temples of Worldsmith in the game - will He be acknowledged in second set by devs or not. It's just ypu humanfolk that often misspell His name :D (one of my chars will be cleric of Torag).
Only responsibility for those declaring a feud will be influence spent on declaring and mantaining this feud. Not all companies have assets to lose, so targeting some companies will be about getting on these guys. This mechanic can be easily avoided by moving members of one company to another, logging out for a long time, staying wiyjin thr walls of settlement who made killing within their walls a crime, etc. Interdiction (as it is proposed) is a way to feud anything that moves in one chosen hex. For example: we, Eeeevil Dwarves of Forgeholm (TM) want to interdict our nearest hex with elevation change. Without dpending effort to clean this hex from monsters we should only create three companies for our PvPers who will in turn feud this hex (in turn, because we need to replenish influence spent). That is it. For me this scenario is too reminiscent to EVE's gate camps. No responsibility, no rep hits, just do it in turn and spend some time adventuring. Free kills for less cost - not what I expect from PFO.
I'll look at this idea from another angle.
Issuing interdiction on one hex by your company is akin to issuing law about one of your settlement's hexes. "You own what you hold". If settlement can't support their laws there will ne price for this. Devs called such thing "corruption". What price for the company will be for not upholding their interdiction?
Imposing laws of your company onto hex means some sort of ownership of said hex. Not so complex and tedious as running PoI, but still claim. IMO let the land to be owned and let the people to be feuded. That's simple and much in tune with common sense. If interdictors can issue rules for the land they should bear some responsibilities for this land.
Just my thoughts.
Stealth may be not so efficient in combat for sneak attacks as of now, but think about smugglers (commoners with maxed load and stealth) and you will get a broader picture. Well, melee fighters with stealth and charge abilities aren't so bad either... :D
Sigh. Bard and Ranger were in AD&D for a loong time. They are not exactly trinity-like, it seems. Wizards are nor exactly DPS glass cannons - they were also buffers/debuffers and logistic experts. Clerics with all their spheres were wildly different one from another. And Barbarians were (and are) not only "tanks" but the burst-damage horrors as well. And as there was much more in TT games than bashing heads (can't say about 1st ed. - I'm in just from AD&D 2nd ed.). And there was way less insta-heals with the onset time of the potions.
In TT games I've played tanks many times but they were not useless barrels of hp with starnge habit of getting in the way of attacks, but guys who were dealing so much damage that any enemy with Int 3+ tried to kill his ASAP, before my char will paste them all on the battlemat :)
Warning! Wall of text can hit you for 560 words of damage!:
Alpha is near. Forums are even more lively than usual with influx of the people who want to play but not followed these boards for last two years. Some of our discussions became recurring debate based on assumptions which are wrong in my PoV. I may be wrong too. So here are some of my points fairly obvious, but with some less obvious consequences. If I put something wrong please correct me.
1. PFO is not a game. It is (as most of modern MMOs) virtual environment where we can do things via our virtual characters. Sandboxes have more tools to play with, themeparks have more pregenerated content. Even in hardcore sandbox you can gather 32 people and play with them chess instead of raids. You can play spy games and run scams with other people. You can move around and enjoy your sights. Whatever. Devs provide us with tools to interact with the world and each other. Anyone can play their own game. Only limiting – or enhancing – factor are other players who are playing their games – if your games contradict or support each other.
2. You can log out of PFO any time you want. This leads to ease of doing many things and getting away with that – literally. Most MMOs have various tools to nudge players into “proper gameplay”, but nobody can order you to play this way or that way. You can just leave and be done for a while or forever.
3. You can't play 24/7. You must eat, sleep, live your RL. At least you need to make money to pay for this game :D So there are times when you cannot affect what happens in this virtual world. Many meta-game PvP tactics revolved around this fact, from night attacks on your in-game assets to impersonating you in local chat when you're not here. Again, there are usually some built-in safety measures to alleviate said problem, but this problem is undeniable reality of MMO. Offense is easy to organize, defense is a hard thing.
4. You can't be ultimate winner in MMO and enjoy it. Oh yes, you can, but that means end of this MMO for you. Game over. Losers are leaving the game winners must wait for new batch of players whom they can overpower or must move themselves to the next game to win. When I've played Darkfall last fall I had clinging feeling that some people won this game already and moved on because there is nothing to do for them. Lots of efforts of devs, tons of interesting mechanics – and only several serious guilds left on the whole US server. Rare gank squads and solo gankers roaming countryside, rare gatherers, bots aplenty, some guilds still fighting each others – but no bustling activity as in EVE.
5. GW is the team of experienced game developers. When they implement something or don't implement that means 99% of the time they know what effect on the game this will have. So if they read your proposal and ignore it – they have their reasons. Don't bother them again, again and again, please. I'm guilty myself in laying out on IdeaScale one of my old ideas already proposed on PFO forums. I will not repeat it again I swear! :)
Maybe there are other points I've missed or I got something wrong – please post your thoughts too.
Welcome on these forums!
Sorry, I don't know much aside from "Terve!" in your language, but I glad to see other people here who will play around my active game time (GMT+4). And settlement of Forgeholm will always greet decent folk who love to fight for the cause. (hint! hint! :) )
May your time in the River Kingoms be fun and interesting!
My first thought about our incentive was in the form of advertisement:
- Not enough threads? Can't thread both your armor and weapon? Buy our war axes too! Sixpacks for 5% discount! :)
Seriously though I think about having one of Forgeholm's specializations as crafting is good. Well, sitting on mountains of iron ore (literally!) what else you will train if not crafters and fighters?
Futture will tell and our Council of Elders will decide, but I think assessing this market segment before all things starts to roll is decent idea.
We've got six Escalations up and running already, and uninfected hexes spawn random encounters appropriate to their terrain type. There will be plenty of PvE combat available for those so inclined.
Thank you for this clarification and welcome on these boards!
Well after getting some sleep I can think more coherently. Here are my observations – please correct me where I'm wrong.
At the day One in EE we will have some prefab settlements tuned to 2 roles out of 6 (Fighter, Cleric, Wizard, Rogue, Expert, Commoner). To advance our settlements we must seize and keep control of as much towers as possible. Main detriments for unlimited expansion will be competition from other settlements and widening of PvP window with increase of # of towers owned. During PvP window there will be no rep hits for PvP on these hexes for anyone. There will be no upkeep costs for your settlement structures. There will be no mechanical effects for your alignment and reputation at the start of EE. Nothing was said about escalations at the start of EE. So...
1. That means for me that in the time of PvP window you'll be effectively in the state of war against anyone who goes to your tower hex. In EVE this state is called NBSI (Not Blue – Shoot It!). Settlements can make alliances, but any stranger near your tower is probably a spy or enemy trying to do something against you. There's zero motivation to spare someone. And there's a good incentive to kill anyone not “blue” to you. Later there will be other mechanics of warfare which may allow other approaches. But in the first months NBSI policy will be well established - so good luck with changing the overall mood of the game once this mood is set.
2. At the start of EE you can do nothing else to advance your settlement save for TW (Tower Warfare) and making equipment to support such warfare. So any low-rep CE settlement with Crafter/Fighter specialization will hold as much towers as their numbers, love for PvP and free time allows them. And they will be probably best crafters in the game – good number of towers ensures that. Well maybe month or two later things will change, but for now being unemployed PvP fan is the best position to become a great in-game crafter :D
I can't say I can't bear this situation – I've seen worse. But for me PvP is necessary activity – not source of much fun. And DUST514 and Darkfall are already out. I'll appreciate greatly if PFO will offer me virtual environment different from these 2.
Again – correct me please if I've missed something.
