Anyone else as disappointed as me to see the "wrongbad fun" mentality alive and well? My experiences have shown that a player can run a very powerful PC without being the least bit disruptive to the table. Builds aren't a problem. Player decisions can be.
A few things coming up in this thread and the related ones that I believe should be addressed. First, yes, the errata was pretty broad sweeping, and affects a lot of builds. That sucks for those affected. Whether or not the campaign leadership decides to allow very broad rebuilding or not, I personally do not see it as punishment. I look at it like this: If they allow very broad rebuilds, then they are being exceptionally understanding about exactly how the changes affect certain builds, and how those changed builds can affect an individual's fun (particular for those of us who are character builders). If they do not take that into consideration, I do not see it as punishment, I simply see it as not being terribly sympathetic. Second, the demonization some individuals are demonstrating towards those asking for that sympathy and understanding seems incredibly out of hand. I get that not everyone enjoys this game the same way. That's perfectly fine. But to suggest that the character builder's enjoyment is in some way invalid or wrong is just ridiculous. At what point did we move away from being a fun, lighthearted game and organization to numerous voices hellbent on making this experience more rigid than an IRS tax code? The lack of empathy and sympathy from some of the posters, some of which are even high starred VO's, is incredibly saddening.
When it comes to the necromancer's intentions, all we have is speculation. For all we know, the necromancer may have done it as a last resort desperation maneuver, as the OP did say one of the four PCs had died, and the party was getting pounded hard from there. Either way, when you examine that we are all people trying to have a cooperative fantasy experience for fun and entertainment, leaving a downed PC to die when you have the means to stop that is really pretty mean spirited. This is still a game last time I checked.
I clearly can't speak for anyone else, but we always found dealing with situations like these to be remarkably easy. Player of Inquisitor: "Hey Player of Necromancer! Because my PC is a very devout worshiper of Pharasma, assume that he is pretty constantly voicing his negative opinion of your undead raising and chastising your lack of observation to Pharasma's morals. Because I have no interest in harassing you as a Player though, just bear in mind that is taking place in the background. As we are both Pathfinders though, he cooperates with you." Player of Necromancer: "Hey man, np! Let's say that the Necromancer is not so forceful of his opinions on you, but replies coldly and with little care for your values on that particular topic. As we are both Pathfinders though, he cooperates with you." Everyone: Proceeds with the game without further incident. Now while that might not be 100% in line with required ethos, individual PC motivation, ect. it's just the easiest way to go without someone having a bad experience out of character. Any GM who seeks to enforce codes of ethics that would result in conflict between party members in the medium of PFS is just being ridiculous.
For what it is worth, as long as I can clearly read whatever you store your character records on (and they are accurate, of course), I don't really care how you keep them. It's all good by me. I still enjoy Pathfinder and PFS, but it does have some fairly tight paper trail requirements compared to many other living campaigns at this time. One thing I am very much enjoying about DnD 5e Adventure League right now is not having to carry a crap ton of books with me simply because I enjoy extensive character building and do not own pdfs.
considering that, generally, no feat is more powerful than another already? I have to respectfully disagree there. I shall quickly rattle off a small handful of feats that have little opposition in terms of power aside from others on said list: Animal Soul, Clustered Shots, Dazing Spell, Divine Protection, Raging Brutality, Persistent Spell, Sacred Geometry. there's no space constriction at all. The fact that when most people use MoMS to grab the first then third style feats and almost never grab the middle, says more about the quality of the middle style feats than the power of MoMS. I am inclined to believe that it speaks to both aspects, and both should be considered carefully as separate entities, as well as in combination. To do otherwise would not provide a very illuminated broad picture.
I believe that not every scenario can please everyone. While it's true that the majority of scenarios should probably stick to the most commonly appreciated denominator of design, I would not have a problem with one or three a season being tailored for a specific crowd. I do not know how this design approach would affect various aspects of play on a broad scale, but the idea might be worth some consideration.
Rynjin is giving it to you straight. You may use Steadfast Personality (an insight bonus) with either Charmed Life or Irrepressible, but with the new FAQ clarification, they will not stack. A corresponding example would be a Paladin 2/Oracle 1 who had both Divine Grace, as well as Sidestep Secret. Such a character would only have Cha to Reflex saves once, even though Sidestep Secret replaces Dex in this instance. That said, low level Swashbucklers are where the poor saves is really felt. Once you get a bit higher up there, 7+ or so, especially if you are a half-orc, it's manageable - but by no means "good".
I'm still at a loss as to why this, moms, or the moms sacred fist combo need to be banned. What character are people afraid of ? I personally agree. I believe the discussion has led to a point in which some are speaking on the "what if" scenario of if our option comes down to ban MoMS or allow style feats as is, which do we prefer? The bottom line as I see it is this: encounters are meant to be fought, and hoped to be successfully overcome. If the PCs overcome that encounter in a fraction of a round, or after several rounds of grueling struggle, the end result of victory is still the same. If it is going to come down to a quick shutdown, speaking personally, it doesn't matter to me one iota if it ends to a bad slumber hex save, hail of double-barrel gunslinger bullets, pouncing barbarian, pummeling monk, dazing fireball, or any of the other host of rocket tag powers available to PCs, because the result is the same, and a great many PCs have access to rocket tag if they so choose. The conversation of doing these things with others at the table who prefer a different approach, and how that all interacts in terms of table etiquette is a separate conversation. All that aside, I still believe that pummeling charge enhances the class capability of the monk significantly, and does not overall effect martial class balance in a considerably negative manner.
Important, yes. I might question very important. 4E was a prime example of a system where game designer's decided to make balance between PC classes very high in the list of important qualities. The net result was a system where all PC classes were functionally the same. Unfortunately, it appears a large number of players don't actually want their PC classes to be functionally identical. I will be the first to say that broad-scope game balance between every single class is a very tricky prospect at best. It's also a bit out of the scope of this particular issue. Let's narrow this conversation down to the categorical balance I am referring too though, which is martial melee vs. themselves. Some of them having pounce and some not, with no other means to compensate for that move plus full attack issue, is a pretty big imbalance. At least in my personal opinion.
In further fairness, I personally believe that all melee classes need some manner in which to have both movement as well as multiple attacks. It's not just the barbarian, fighter, monk, and mounted characters that deserve them. Because their is a lot of feats and abilities that make charge extra strong though, I would like to see as few of these options be charge-related as possible, however. A built in feature of being able to take a move action and full attack minus your highest attack roll would be a pretty simple fix for all.
So while I agree with your general sentiment, I believe the scale is already out of whack. Barbarians have a ton of excellent options that do not directly incorporate into DPR, but AC and DPR is just about all a fighter gets - and a raging brutality beast totem pouncer is just plain better at the DPR game. Monks never quite achieve the same plus to the damage dice as a barb or fighter, but with some support from use magic device, running an 6d8, 8d8, or even 16d8 if you really go all out base damage goes a long way to close the gap. All that aside, I really don't see the Pummeling Charge option as detrimental. It is certainly strong, but not brokenly so in my opinion.
I personally am torn on the issue of banning MoMS. On the one hand, I prefer to see as little as possible banned for the simple purposes of maximum possible variety of build possibilities. On the other hand, if the options turn out to be to either ban certain styles or ban MoMS, I would prefer the MoMS ban. To further complicate this matter, as John said, it would impact countless players and their builds. That said, let's take a quick moment to outline various pounce-like options available to martials currently, and compare. Barbarian 10: Comes online at 10th level. Allows for 2 attacks via BAB, or as many as four using two-weapon fighting feats. Non-MoMS monk 8: Comes online at 9th level, as you do not gain a feat or bonus feat at 9th level. Allows for 4 attacks if your archetype retains flurry, 2 otherwise. MoMS 1: Comes online as early as 1st level. As MoMS replaces flurry however, you are looking at 1 attack through level 7, and 2 attacks at 8th and higher. Two-Weapon fighting feats double those numbers, respectively. Mobile Fighter 11: Comes online at 11th level. Requires sacrificing your 1st attack, leaving you with 2 attacks, or as many as 5 with Two-Weapon fighting feats at that level. Unarmed Fighter 1: Comes online as early as 1st level. Allows for 1 attack through level 5, 2 at 6th through 10th level, and 3 at 11th level. Up to double this number in the case of Two-Weapon fighting feats. Each attack deals 1d3 damage before modifiers, as unarmed fighters do not gain any monk unarmed damage progression. With the clearing up of the language on requiring unarmed strikes, even in the earliest level case of MoMS, I don't see it being that much of an issue. The "worse case" abuse of it would be on a sacred fist with a level or two dip of MoMS, but there are so many class combinations that can lead to incredibly strong combos that I personally do not feel that this particular one requires action. Simply to provide another PFS legal example, a halfling fighter (aldori swordlord) 7 / aldori swordlord 1 / duelist 3 / monk (master of many styles) 1 fighting defensively would get a +8 dodge bonus to AC with 0 attack penalty just from feats and class features. -4 / +2, base
That is also pretty ludicrous, and is only one of dozens of examples of strong multiclassing. I personally consider the amazing variety of character builds to be one of this game's strongest features, however, and believe that variety should be embraced rather than shunned, except in the worse case scenarios.
I posted this same thing in another thread, but this is a far more appropriate one in which to have this conversation than the AR page. I will go back and delete that one in a moment.
While I am generally inclined to agree with you in that I also prefer to see as few options banned as reasonably possible, I feel that in a lot of ways we are addressing the problematic style feat symptoms (ban for pummeling charge, awful errata for crane wing), but not the cause of those symptoms (master of many styles archetype, unarmed fighter archetype, ect. skipping level prerequisites). Feats have a minimum level for a reason, which is usually because their effect is considered too strong until the designated levels in which adversaries and can be expected to have similar abilities and/or appropriate answers. Past that, pretty much all melee focused classes really need some sort of gift horse with which to allow them to have some manner of mobility with multiple attacks. Such a thing would go a long way towards addressing the combat portion of imbalance between melee, ranged, and spells.
Old Crane Wing was better than Deflect Arrows. I also believe it had a right to be. Deflect arrows has pre-reqs of one stat at 13 and one feat. Crane Wing has pre-reqs of BAB +5 or 5 Monk levels and three feats. In my play experience, I have found both feats (pre-nerf regarding Crane Wing) to be very useful. What made Crane Wing stronger? It tended to negate hits that would individually deal larger damage, as melee attacks tend to do slightly better damage on a hit to hit basis. If people routinely played the rocket tag scenario as you suggest, the hit exchange would still seem pretty even to me. The Crane Wing using PC would take two attacks a round (one AoO for moving away, one when his enemy moved back in to attack), one of which would get negated. They would also make one attack prior to moving. There are also numerous factors which could change the above example, such as reach, pounce, ect. All in all though, if you are playing that game minus the ability to attack multiple times with your movement, it's going to be a long game of blah for both participants.
Maybe it is for the best if Crane Wing is now used in "specific" builds instead of being so good that people feel almost compelled to take it (or compelled to avoid it) There are already a huge number of feats which fall into this category, however. Power Attack, Piranha Strike, Persistent Spell, Dazing Spell, Clustered Shots, Deadly Aim, the list goes on and on. My question to those who feel as Devilkiller and Erik Wilson would be what makes those above staple feats acceptable where old Crane Wing was not? On a side note, and speaking from a position of heavy involvement with PFS, I do not feel that medium is the best stage upon which to gauge the general value of any given ability. I find doing so similar to testing in a vacuum, as PFS house rules and AR significantly change the scope of their game vs. a standard "these are the available Pathfinder products" game. YMMV of course.
Crane Style, the feat (not the overall chain), is still a solid feat in my opinion. Crane Riposte and Crane Wing are awful, however. I still use Crane Style on some defensive monk builds, but never bother with the later two feats anymore. It's a shame that one melee block a round was seen as too strong for a feat, but Cha to saves is perfectly acceptable as a feat.
It has been my experience from 3.0 and onward that any time you have a high level (12+) party of optimized PCs, default printed monsters and cookie cutter NPCs really aren't going to put up much of a fight unless you have excellent dice luck and the players have awful dice luck. Optimized PCs often require direct counter-tactics at that level. I personally try keep these situations to a minimum by saving them for key adversaries or tense plot moments. This is for two reasons: 1). Counter-tactics on the frequent is cheesy and highly improbable in terms of the denizens of a standard fantasy setting.
As far as advise if you would like to present a difficult encounter for the PC, we would have to know more about the build (saves, ect.), but in general I might suggest a sunder or disarm specialist, monk he just won't hit easily, archer sniper, alchemist, or gunslinger for a nasty encounter.
So in that extremely niche example, then yes, old Crane Wing would have been stronger. In more general gameplay, do you not find the potential to deflect a number of melee attacks equal to your Dexterity modifier, even while flat-footed, considerably more potent? Swashbucklers have excellent attack bonuses as well, so an opposed attack roll is a very reliable contest for them.
I believe that the point of confusion / contention comes the differences between the "Changing your Faction" information, and the "Faction Retirement" information. Key points: You retain your faction traits, if any, but lose any faction-specific Prestige Awards you have accumulated during your time with your old faction; generic Prestige Awards from Table 5–4 and Vanities (Pathfinder Society Field Guide 60) are unaffected. Compared to:
Personally, I am of the opinion that once the smoke clears from Gencon and Mike and John get a look at this, this entire process will be considered "Faction Retirement" in terms of how vanities and the like are handled. Until we get clarification however, I personally am not touching anyone's toys.
Erastus 17th, 4714 The morning following our feast, I rose to greet my companions in the main hall. Everyone was already gathered there, our shared sense of eagerness palpable, as it seemed they had been waiting only upon me. Chazz stood beside Pontificor (The Great!. . .) in his glittering mithral plate and tower shield, engaged with the gnome in some sort of hand-slapping game. Acknowledging me with a single wink, he went on to punish poor Pontificor with his staggering hand-eye coordination and speed. Hrogarth, always in his house cat state, sat lazily upon a central table, apparently deep in concentration. His alert eyes caught my entrance immediately, and his simple nod informed me that he had already cast his find the path spell and was ready for departure. Kyros was diligently double-checking his preparations, assuring himself that he had forgotten nothing. A warm smile and a greeting from him demonstrated that he was ready to set out. Pontificor, for his part, was determined in his attempts to resist Chazz's lightning slaps, but to no avail. Upon noting my entrance, his attention was immediately drawn away from their game, and he circled about me nearly bouncing with excitement yammering that he was ready to begin our "path-searching". Righty stood among us poised, and appearing the most casual and relaxed of us. A delicate bottle of fine elven brandy in his hand, already opened, was raised slightly with a smile to greet my arrival. Sheliantha, her implacable radiance always compelling my immediate attention, was smiling and gesturing with her diminutive companion. She seemingly lit up even more powerfully at my presence, and that may have, uh. . .caused me to stand dumbfounded for a moment longer than I care to admit. . . that was embarrassing. Telessar, on the other hand, stood as her polar opposite. The severity of the grim elf struck an impressive figure, his hand resting on his dueling sword in contemplation of the challenge before him, as his animate shadow skulked disconcertingly about his form. Ven, not one to begin this expedition unprepared or at a disadvantage, already had bow in hand, and several stacks of parchment, ink, and quills with which to employ his talents in cartography on our behalf. A nod upon my arrival told me that he was ready for the long journey ahead. And Violetta. . .she relaxed about us with the sense of supreme confidence that only a true archmage could realistically manage under such circumstances. A playful, wholly unconcerned smile greeted my arrival from her, and she effortlessly rose to join my side. As we finished off the very simple breakfast Marlow gracefully brought out to us, the fifteen minutes required allowed my to outline the goals of our venture, the rules of engagement I expected, and our plans for travel in the dark with my colleagues. I shall include the key points here for historical purposes: Goals
Rules of Engagement
Travel
There was some light discussion regarding these topics, but there was largely a consensus that these practices were in our best interests in the long term. Upon that understanding, our expedition set out from The Deep Lodge, thrill of a new adventure fresh upon our spirits.
But allowing a Bluff Check to actually be all Intelligence based skills for the cost of a feat or 2nd level spell, is way outside the realms of reasonable. Outside the realms of reasonable? Very likely. Clearly how the ability functions as written at the moment? Absolutely.
I love puzzles! I actually prefer they be player-solved... why even have them if it's just to soak some dice rolls? I think that matter depends on your group. Some people like to make the players solve them, others are good with Int checks or the like. Some people enjoy challenging puzzles in their gaming, others don't. Any answer is fine there, as it's just a matter of personal taste. I personally do not like puzzles (in gaming or otherwise). They are not enjoyable for me, nor am I good at them, so it tends to become a matter of frustration for me quickly if I am forced to solve them on my own.
I am less interested in seeing any options banned than I am in seeing problem mechanics revisited by the developers. So far Mark is doing a pretty good job addressing those. How about next we admit double-barrel firearms were a mistake and do something about that?
Erastus 16th, 4714 I am pleased to record that The Deep Lodge's roster of Pathfinder agents has expanded since my last entry. Our new agents and my initial impressions of them are thus: Pathfinder Agents Telessar. "Telessar is quite interesting. This elf is composed of a severity and sullen nature I rarely witness from his people. A fellow accomplished kensai, he is incredibly proficient with his sword. He seems obsessed with death and mortality, but not in a manner I consider to be immediately threatening. He possesses an affinity for shadows I have only ever witnessed once before, when I faced Woaltog in the Sanctum of The Ten. Like Woaltog, Telessar too fades into darkness with gifted ease, and is served by a living shadow. Perhaps when our camaraderie has grown, I will seek to pry his secrets from him. Until then, he will serve our expedition well as a primary scout." Violetta. "If I could have made but one wish, it would have been to add a proper archmage to the ranks of our venture. Violetta granted me that wish. The human (perhaps more than human?) explained to me her specialization lay in the realm of enchantment magics, planar bindings, and simulacrums. Such magic, especially performed at her high level of proficiency, are sure to make our journey noticeably safer and easier. Unfortunately, like many wishes, I am concerned she may come with. . ."extras". Her force of personality is subtle, but staggering. I can plainly see that she is one whom is used to getting things done her way. I would not wish to see what might happen if the capricious side of an embarrassed or indignant archmage were to be aroused. I shall endeavor to heed her counsel and keep her placated as best I can once we've set off." Ven. "Not that I lack faith in my fellow agents, far from it in fact, as I too am given to my own "particulars". . .but it is assuring to have another rational and level-headed companion among us. The man immediately strikes me as dependable and resilient. Ven is a valuable resource for this expedition, given his subterranean affinity and ranged combat specialization. The shoanti appears even more at home down here than I, which bids good omen. It appears he reveres a bat totem, which I feel I may have offended him over by attempting to serve him representation of his deity smothered in delicious mushroom gravy. . .but he seems to have taken my fluke in stride. I am resolved to endeavor to compensate him for my misstep by seeking to develop a deeper understanding of his spiritualism." I believe that our company is now more than appropriately composed for our first expedition to find the ruins of Sverenagati. In preparation, Hrogarth has already performed a test casting of find the path with a destination of the ruins, and assures me the spell was a success and he will be able to guide us. With Telessar and Ven at point a few hundred yards ahead of our main party, my hope is that we will be able to avoid the casual dangers of Sekamina. If not? Well, this group appears prepared to handle the dangers of The Darklands, and resolved to see the expedition through. Tonight, I will transport our agents from Absalom to The Deep Lodge, where Marlow will have a glorious feast prepared for us. We will take the night to meet, eat, and enjoy one another's company. . .for in the morning, the journey to the ruins of Sverenagati awaits!
Combine with 2 PP worth of combat trained tiger after your first scenario for maximum facepalm.
My two go-to picks without regard for anything other than murdering skills (the bad will saves can be tragic in some first level content, fair warning if you choose to copy / paste for a game): Human Sorcerer [Crossblooded] 1
Human Fighter 1
Its not a choice. There are simply too many possible ways of avoiding damage. (57 different types of damage reduction, swarms, Golems, dr/ screw you, incorporeality, being in water) for a martials budget to cover them all. A martial does not need to be prepared for literally everything - only those options which completely shut them down if they are unprepared. For example, a martial character cannot harm a diminutive or smaller swarm with weapons at all without a swarmbane clasp. That situation is considerably more severe than taking 10 points of damage off the top of your 2d6+18 for striking a stone golem with standard steel. Would you be better off with that 10 extra damage? Of course. But you are still effective in that situation. Here is a short list of simple, affordable solutions and slightly costly better options for higher level PCs to the most problematic situations for a melee focused PC with little to no class magic: Damage Reduction
Enemy out of your melee reach
Incorporeal enemy
Underwater combat
Swarms
Now, some of those options like the winged boots and pearl of the sirines are very hard to budget for mid level PCs. I dig it. But 2 potions of fly, a masterwork composite longbow (+3 Str bonus), an elixir of spirit sight, a masterwork spear, a scroll of freedom of movement, and a swarmbane clasp costs 10 PP and 4,000 gp at it's cheapest price in gold. Just about any PC can pack that away by 4th level and be melee effective in most bad situations.
General address on difficulty to go along with David_Bross above. When you are playing with a core group of players, it's pretty reasonable to have individual PCs who aren't strong against some enemies, because you can rely on each other to cover your bases as a team. So your monk and barbarian are not so good against swarms, and elected to not buy a swarmbane clasp? That's probably fine, since your alchemist and blaster sorcerer will always be playing at the table with them. With a medium like PFS, we just have to acknowledge a few realities: 1). We don't always get to pick our team.
If you are a melee focused PC for example, two weaknesses you need to consider out the door are how to deal with flying enemies and swarms, through early to high levels. If purchasing a swarmbane clasp for such a PC is not something you want to do, for whatever your perfectly acceptable reason is, that is totally fine - but you then have to willing to accept the consequences for not doing so if you happen to wind up at a table of like minded folks. Likewise, if you decide purchasing a secondary ranged weapon and or a few potions of fly is not worth the gold, that is also totally ok - but you also have to understand that there will be times when enemies are just out of your reach and you won't have much to contribute with, and may well be getting blasted in the face while you just stand there or run for cover. There is no right or wrong style or way to play, but it is also good to acknowledge the possible frustration that can come from situations if you choose to not be prepared for them.
Sarenith 30th, 4714 With The Deep Lodge finally operational, I have elected to begin keeping record of it's personnel, exploits, and significant discoveries in the form of this journal. I likewise have a feeling that these records will serve as refuge for my own private thoughts as well, if for no other reason than to maintain my sanity. Let's begin with the roster of personnel: Domestic Staff
Arlanna Meliamne, Archaeological Expert. "Arlanna is something of an enigma to me. She seems genuine enough in her desire to catalog what dwells below, but I know few elves willing to endure subterranean residence to fulfill such a desire. Unfortunately, I think I rub her the wrong way, as she has thus far been unwilling to discuss herself with me in all but the barest of efforts, and even then only to appear polite." Marlow Hesselwhite, Chef. "Ahhhh, Marlow. . .I have not but praise for this fine young man. The tastes he can dazzle upon one's palate with but the most basic of ingredients is truly a magic foreign to me. He takes pride in his work, as well he should, and is a very friendly sort. I should hope to see more halflings join our venture. They are a fine people." Storn Stonedeep, Svirfneblin Envoy. "I admire the svirfneblin. They have lived in the dark for countless centuries, surrounded on all sides by hostile races, and not only have they managed to thrive, but they have also not allowed the ugliness of their neighbors to tarnish their own souls. I feel that I can relate to such circumstance quite acutely. Storn is a stoic sort of few words, and I know he feels out of place here away from his people. I fear that he may resent me slightly for his post here, but I do all I can to demonstrate to him my true gratitude for his people's friendship. I hope that our expedition here will prove mutually beneficial to his people." Pathfinder Agents
Hrothgar. "Never have I met a stranger druid than this half-orc, but in fairness, I know few druids. He is a haughty, arrogant creature, much like the cats he keeps. He spends all his time in the form of a simple house cat, yet to underestimate his fighting prowess even as such a diminutive creature is to court death. Still, despite our philosophical rivalry and his eccentricities, he is a steadfast and wise companion who can be relied upon to act in the interests of the group. He is also responsible for the precious few magical precautions The Deep Lodge has at present." Kyros Deun. "Kyros is exactly the sort of Pathfinder this venture needs. The half-elf is level headed, tactical, and perhaps most importantly down here, vigilant. He has told me that he is willing to set out with any expedition, which pleases me, as it demonstrates his dedication to this adventure. Considering that this lodge presently bears only the six of us, it is likely that our first few forays will be together, and his skilled sword arm will be welcome should we encounter trouble. After speaking with Arlanna, he approached me in private to counsel me that he too believes something "off" about her. I sensed perhaps a modicum of. . .distaste when he spoke of her, but I cannot be certain how much or little this may have tainted his perception. Time in both of their company shall reveal more." Pontificor The Great (yes, The Great). "I am at a loss for words other than to say Pontificor is. . .well. . .quite a character. Though he is incredibly eccentric (perhaps even more so than Hrothgar!), and did genuinely pout until I began calling him The Great again, his lively spirit has been pleasant to be around. After Hrothgar called into question the usefulness of his magic, he scolded the druid for relying too heavily on his "bully magic", and promised to dazzle us with his "color show" at tonight's feast before we set out for our first expedition. Though his mischievous tendencies are evident, the little gnome also seems quite easy to placate, which is a blessing. He and Chazz are already quite taken with one another's natural curiosity and complete and total absence of discretion or fear. I expect they will become fast friends. . .and likewise provide my greatest source of nightmares each night I set myself to rest." Sheliantha. "Thank. . .Chaldira. . .for Sheliantha. Though I know Chazz and Hrothgar to be as loyal and physically capable as companions can be from our extensive travels together, neither possess even the smallest iota of social tact. At least I can rely upon Kyros and Sheliantha to react with eloquence should they happen upon non-hostile natives. For this human's part, Sheliantha is actually quite capable at negotiation and ingratiating herself. She is also quite striking. . .which proved embarrassing to both Chazz and I when neither of us were caught at our finest moment. I may have. . .gawked slightly. . .but at least I didn't ask her if she was actually a monster in disguise like Chazz. He did thankfully provide context when he relayed to her the many times he's fallen in love in our adventures, only to realize the beauty was some sort of horrible beast beneath the skin. It actually took me providing him with true seeing magic to convince him that she was, in fact, just a beautiful human. Thankfully, for her part, she took our first awkward meeting with grace. I am grateful to have someone with social magnetism counted among our numbers." Tomorrow morning marks the dawn of a new venture, one that I eagerly await. The ancient secrets, history, and magic of this place will surely serve to empower and enlighten us. . .if we prove we are worthy to survive it's trials. Our ultimate destination is the ruins of Sverenagati, which the Svirfneblin have told me is an ancient buried city of the primeval serpentfolk said to have once held a rich library of ancient texts. Sverenagati apparently resides very far to the northwest, past several Drow cities and outposts. Our journey of one thousand steps will have to begin with the first by following the crude map the Svirfneblin provided me, west past the Endless Gulf, and then north towards our destination.
Personally, I would not allow the golem to take 10, as the acid and it's legs burning would clearly be both danger and distraction. But other than that, yeah.
Hi, my name is Lormyr, and I am a colossal min-maxer. That said, this is not so much a specific example, so much as few bad experiences/GMs over the years lumped together: When I join a game, I usually have a build fully stated out before beginning play. I always let the GM know what I am intending, and make them aware of any silly rules interactions I am using. It drives me nuts when a GM approves a build, and then employs ludicrous fiats, heavy handed railroading, and/or completely made up and nonsensical rulings and mechanics to negate the build. What drives me nuts about it is that, while I am a min-maxer, I am also a reasonable adult, and the entire fiasco can be avoided with one sentence.
Ok, so this is actually fairly simple. Here is the deal. Spell Combat
Spellstrike
Where it gets confusing for some is that you can employ both of these class features at the same time. When that happens, you do the following as a full-round action: 1). Make a full-attack with the light or one-handed melee weapon you carry. All of these attacks suffer a -2 penalty to hit.
Note: Because of the nature of touch spells and holding a charge, the best option is to take #2 as the first part of your action, and after doing so as long as any of your attacks land that round, the touch spell will be delivered.
How does it work? "If you can't dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle them with your bulls---" That would make fine sense if you were simply BSing that you knew something. Pageant of the Peacock allows you to actually know, however, which is the part I have trouble grasping.
And, uh.... Yes, we still have Fighters at our table That said, I've never seen a real lack of martials. And rightly so. All talk of power and mechanical imbalance aside, who really wants to keep playing the same character over and over again? Sometimes you want omniscient cosmic power. Sometimes you just want to be the best damn swordsman in the land. I can't speak for anyone else, but while I personally love my casters and do genuinely believe they are hands down without equal mechanically strong, I would get bored of role-playing very quickly if that was all I ever chose to play. To date my total Pathfinder experience has been (3 years in - what can I say, I was a hard sell away from 3.5?): PFS - Monk [Qinggong] 19.1
Non PFS - Summoner [Synthesist] 2 We decided for our next round of PFS characters to all run characters with no magic whatsoever for some added challenge. Probably going to roll up a some sort of Fighter [Aldori Swordlord]/Aldori Swordlord/Duelist. Had a fun idea for a Chelaxian who had ranks of Profession (lawyer), and worked as a professional duelist in lands where legal disputes could be settled through a duel. Sounds fun to me.
I find that at this level of play the vast majority of PC investigation needs are solved magically, and in fairly short order. There are of course exceptions though, but overall I agree with your assessment. Trying to cram a high level scenario into a 4-5 hour slot would most likely be doing the author's work and the adventure game play itself a disservice. If something like this were to be taken into consideration, I personally think it would be excellent to model them around a double-length feature (8-10 hour standard), but leave the XP for completion at 1 point, and with similar gold gain. Keeps the PC progression in pace with other scenarios, and also gives seekers more opportunity to play their favorite characters without "leveling out".
If someone came to me with that and cried RAW I would direct them to pages 12 396 and 402 and tell them to try again. I think that is two different conversations. Conversation #1 is what is legal when strictly combining game mechanics. Conversation #2 is what does a given individual GM allow or disallow for their particular game in order to achieve their desired ballpark of power level.
Don't sweat it Derwalt - there's a lot to keep track of around here. But yes, nature's whisper is the ability I am speaking of, not sidestep secret or prophetic armor. I can't say if the absence of the max dex/armor line was intentionally or not, but my best guess is that is was simply an oversight. But then again, Paizo constantly surprises me with what they consider balanced or working as intended or not (my latest areas of bafflement are the Crane Wing nerf and spell-like abilities allowing spellcasting qualification), so who knows?
I personally like long sessions of RP. I won't play with powergamers that don't understand that. By your second sentence quoted above, you may have meant what I am about to say, but while I understand that some powergamers/optimizers are not interested in role-play, that is not universally true. It seems like many people believe optimization and role-play are mutually exclusive, but I have not known that to be true. Though I rarely go a full 10 on optimization for PFS (I prefer a little versatility for this campaign), I do optimize heavily. This does not in any fashion stop me from seeking out and enjoying the role-play opportunities available in a given scenario/AP/module either. I have found that typically the amount of role-play you get to engage in depends heavily upon all of if your session is timed or not, the players you have present and their styles, and the depth of the scenario/AP/module in question.
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