Venture-Captain, Washington—Spokane
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Apologies if this was answered directly, but my brain is having trouble parsing the responses:
These are fictional hypotheticals:
1. I have a character that started out in Cheliax. She completed the scenario 5-43 License to Ill in Season 5 and got a Cheliax boon to buy Demon Spice at half price whenever she likes. If I change her faction to Liberty's Edge, do I lose the ability to use that Boon?
2. I have a 3rd level character who started out in Silver Lodge. I have assigned a GM credit to her that won't take affect until she's 4th. The GM credit was reported as Silver Lodge faction and there is a Silver Lodge faction reward that let's her get half price off of healing spells with the Silver Lodge. If I change the character to Dark Archives, do I still get the benefit of that faction boon?
3. For #2, is the answer dependent on when I move her to Dark Archives?
4. If the answer for #2 is no, I don't get the benefit of the faction reward, can I assign the chronicle to a different character or change the faction reported?
According to page 18 in the guide, here is what I have for answers.
1. Yes2. No
3. No
4. Up to the person who reported the event.
If I happen to be wrong on any of these, I would be interested in knowing as these questions will probably come up again in the future.
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Venture-Captain, Washington—Spokane
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I have a 9th level Cheliaxian with the Armiger and Hellknight vanities, if I move her over to Sovereign Court does she keep those vanities that I paid prestige for?
Since we are getting one free faction change and, essentially, the old nation based factions are going away; I would have to say yes. If you were exercising the faction change option after that, you would not be able to keep faction vanities. It is almost being treated as a faction retirement but not completely. Hope that makes sense.
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I have a 9th level Cheliaxian with the Armiger and Hellknight vanities, if I move her over to Sovereign Court does she keep those vanities that I paid prestige for?
I don't know. I THINK you get to keep the goodies but I"m not entirely sure.
as a legal choice from the campaign, that character may
change to a different faction one time at no cost. Any
faction-specific vanities, titles, traits, prestige items, or
other purchases made while the character was a member
of the retired faction are retained by that character with
no changes. After the faction is retired, none of these
faction-specific items are available for future purchase.
Characters who belong to a faction that’s being retired
but who do not receive credit for the associated retirement
scenario prior to the faction being eliminated must
change factions (again at no cost) prior to receiving credit
for any further scenarios. No character may belong to a
retired faction after the faction’s elimination under any
circumstances. Finally, a GM who has a character in
one of the factions that’s being retired may assign
the Chronicle sheet from the special scenario
to one of his characters that is higher-level
than the scenario in this instance only.
Liberty’s Edge faction PCs qualify for Andoran faction
vanities and mission boons available in past seasons.
Likewise, Dark Archive faction PCs qualify for Cheliax
rewards, Scarab Sages as Osirion, The Exchange as
Qadira, and Sovereign Court as Taldor. Without a boon
that states otherwise, a PC cannot earn Sczarni vanities
or boons.
I don't know if this applies, because the factions aren't being retired, they're just changing a bit.
You retain your faction traits, if any, but lose any faction-specific
Prestige Awards you have accumulated during your time
with your old faction; generic Prestige Awards from
Table 5–4 and Vanities (Pathfinder Society Field Guide 60)
are unaffected.
Which confuses me, because I don't know what a non vanity prestige award would be.
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Which confuses me, because I don't know what a non vanity prestige award would be.It explicitly says it's the stuff on Table 5-4 in the Guide, titled "Generic Prestige Awards". Things like spending 2 pp on a wand are what it's talking about.
AH ok. I re-read seeker of secrets, things like trade prince aren't vanities.
So I think scarzini is the only faction that's actually being retired so those rules would apply, so things like fence-contact would still be on your character, but you couldn't buy it. Something like greased palm couldn't be bought unless you had a "spirit of the shadow lodge" type convention boon that let you do it.
1. I have a character that started out in Cheliax. She completed the scenario 5-43 License to Ill in Season 5 and got a Cheliax boon to buy Demon Spice at half price whenever she likes. If I change her faction to Liberty's Edge, do I lose the ability to use that Boon?
I don't think so, because I don't see any mention of losing boons when you change factions.
2. I have a 3rd level character who started out in Silver Lodge. I have assigned a GM credit to her that won't take affect until she's 4th. The GM credit was reported as Silver Lodge faction and there is a Silver Lodge faction reward that let's her get half price off of healing spells with the Silver Lodge. If I change the character to Dark Archives, do I still get the benefit of that faction boon?
Pretty sure thats a no, since your faction isn't being retired you lose that faction specific prestige award.
3. For #2, is the answer dependent on when I move her to Dark Archives?
Nope.
4. If the answer for #2 is no, I don't get the benefit of the faction reward, can I assign the chronicle to a different character
No. That choice has to be made immediately.
or change the faction reported?
Hmmmm not sure. On one hand, your character is schrodingers protoplasm between sessions. On the other hand, if you assign the DM credit at a certain point that might be the certain point when you decide the faction credit. I would say if you're not sure the answer is usually no.
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Here is a run-down of my understanding of how the faction change for Season Six works. Apologies that it doesn't answer the questions the OP asked on a point by point basis. I put this together for my local players to reference.
- No factions are being retired during Season Six. While there are changes to many, and a merger of two of them, none are actually being retired. This is not a matter of semantics, as faction retirement in the campaign is a very specific thing, and none of those things pertain to any of the affected factions. Thus, none of the information about faction retirement included in the Guide to Organized Play pertains in any way to the Season Six faction changes.
- All characters receive one free faction change that they can utilize at any point during Season Six (from 08/14/14 until the day before the beginning of next year's GenCon). If you are happy with your faction, you are not required to utilize the free change. If you want to change your faction more than once during Season Six, you will need to follow the rules outlined in the Guide to Organized Play for doing so.
- If you are in one of the factions affected by the Season Six changes, you are automatically considered to be a member of the new version of that faction, until and unless you use the available free faction change. For reference, the affected factions and their new version are:
Andoran changes to Liberty's Edge
Cheliax changes to The Dark Archive
Osirion changes to The Scarab Sages
Qadira changes to The Exchange
Sczarni changes to The Exchange
Taldor changes to The Sovereign Court
Grand Lodge and Silver Crusade factions remain unchanged.
- Any faction traits that your character possesses remain unaffected by the new directions of the old factions or by changing your faction entirely. If you are able to choose additional traits and do not already have a faction trait, you can only choose faction traits from the updated list included in Version 6 of the Guide to Organized Play.
- Any generic Prestige Awards or Vanities that you have previously purchased are not affected by the new factions or by changing your faction.
- Any faction-specific Prestige Awards or Vanities that you have previously purchased are retained as long as you remain in the new version of the faction. For example, if you had purchased the Trade Prince/ss Vanity available to the Qadira faction, you may retain the use of that Vanity for as long as you remain a member of The Exchange. If you change to a different faction, you lose access to all previously purchased faction-specific Prestige Awards and Vanities, and do not receive any recompense for their cost.
- When playing Season Five scenarios, you qualify to receive faction-specific boons (providing you complete the faction mission) for the equivalent of your current faction. Dark Archive characters can earn Cheliax boons, Exchange characters can earn Qadira boons, etc. The only exception to this are Sczarni faction boons, which are not currently available to be earned, unless you possess a boon that specifically allows you to do so. (Incidentally, there may be a boon that allows you to qualify for Sczarni faction boons for Season Five scenarios. ) For GMs who choose to include faction missions for scenarios from Seasons Zero through Four, the equivalencies stay the same for the updated factions, and still work out as laid out in previous seasons, adjusted for the updated factions (Dark Archive = Cheliax, Exchange = Qadira, Grand Lodge = Osirion or Grand Lodge, Liberty's Edge = Andoran, Scarab Sages = Osirion, Silver Crusade = Andoran or Silver Crusade, Sovereign Court = Taldor).
- Any faction boons previously earned from Season Five scenarios are retained, unless they would fall under the category of Prestige Awards or Vanities, as noted above.
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- Any faction-specific Prestige Awards or Vanities that you have previously purchased are retained as long as you remain in the new version of the faction. For example, if you had purchased the Trade Prince/ss Vanity available to the Qadira faction, you may retain the use of that Vanity for as long as you remain a member of The Exchange. If you change to a different faction, you lose access to all previously purchased faction-specific Prestige Awards and Vanities, and do not receive any recompense for their cost.
How sure are you of this? You're the second person I've seen post something along these lines.
I really hope this is not the case. Several of my characters will not be going with the new "evolution" of their Faction, and if what you are saying is true, then they're being punished because of that.
I'm definitely not going to operate on this assumption until we hear an official word on the matter. If it turns out to be true, I'll be stunned.
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How sure are you of [if you had purchased the Trade Prince/ss Vanity available to the Qadira faction, you may retain the use of that Vanity for as long as you remain a member of The Exchange.]
I think that ones pretty solid for keeping it in the shuffle from Qadiria to exchange
Liberty’s Edge faction PCs qualify for Andoran faction
vanities and mission boons available in past seasons.
Likewise, Dark Archive faction PCs qualify for Cheliax
rewards, Scarab Sages as Osirion, The Exchange as
Qadira, and Sovereign Court as Taldor. Without a boon
that states otherwise, a PC cannot earn Sczarni vanities
or boons.
One thing I just noticed is that this is under "Faction retirement" making me wonder if the faction rewards use the retired faction rules rather than the abandoning ship rules.
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Clearly the big question is whether the nation-based factions are considered 'retired' or not. While I was initially thinking they would (with "The Paths We Choose" being their retirement scenario), I'm convinced they won't. Read the most recent PFS post on the Paizo Blog:
The nation-based factions have transitioned to ideal-based factions. These new factions borrow some traits from past factions and introduce several new traits. Those who already have faction traits no longer appearing in the Guide to Organized Play keep those traits, but they are no longer available as options for new characters. If you are currently playing in a online game (PbP, VTT, etc..), you may finish the game with your character in its current faction. After the game is complete, you should immediately transition to one of the newer factions, with the exception of Grand Lodge and Silver Crusade.
(emphasis mine) The term used is "transitioned", which shows they aren't retired.
Kigvan: Armiger/Hellknight are faction-specific prestige awards, so if you leave Cheliax/Dark Archive, my guess is that you would lose them.
Finally, I haven't seen it mentioned so far, so I'll point it out now: Osirian characters that purchased the Risen Guard faction-specific vanity can "never change faction" (PFSFG, p.18). I assume, within the context of season six, that it forces Risen Guards to stay in the Scarab Sages. It would be interesting to have the input of the PFS coordinators on that, as well as a clarification of the faction change/faction retirement.
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- Any faction-specific Prestige Awards or Vanities that you have previously purchased are retained as long as you remain in the new version of the faction. For example, if you had purchased the Trade Prince/ss Vanity available to the Qadira faction, you may retain the use of that Vanity for as long as you remain a member of The Exchange. If you change to a different faction, you lose access to all previously purchased faction-specific Prestige Awards and Vanities, and do not receive any recompense for their cost.How sure are you of this? You're the second person I've seen post something along these lines.
I really hope this is not the case. Several of my characters will not be going with the new "evolution" of their Faction, and if what you are saying is true, then they're being punished because of that.
I'm definitely not going to operate on this assumption until we hear an official word on the matter. If it turns out to be true, I'll be stunned.
That has always been the case for changing factions, as far as I am aware. Even in Season, say 3, if you changed from Qadira to Cheliax you lost access to those vanities.
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So let me clarify something:
"Faction-specific Prestige Awards"
1. These are all the scenario benefits we got for completing our faction missions for a specific faction during Season 5?
2. What about the Year of the Risen Rune? If I change factions do I get the benefit of the new faction or the benefit of my previous faction, or neither?
The faction rewards from Season Five are boons, not Prestige Awards. Prestige Awards are things that are specific to your faction that you receive for spending Prestige (that you theoretically earned while working for that faction). Unless the boon in question is worded such that it is a vanity or a Prestige Award (which I do not believe any of the Season Five faction boons are, though I may be mistaken on that), then you still retain access to those boons.
The Year of the Risen Rune boon would also fall under the same blanket.
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Clearly the big question is whether the nation-based factions are considered 'retired' or not. While I was initially thinking they would (with "The Paths We Choose" being their retirement scenario), I'm convinced they won't.
You are correct. Retirement of a faction is a very specific thing in the campaign, and this is not it.
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You are correct. Retirement of a faction is a very specific thing in the campaign, and this is not it.
Weaksauce.
Sczarni weren't a 'nation', and the new Exchange blows harder than the wind that sank the Spanish Armada. My shady guys have more in common with the Darkchives than their new merger... and yet if they leave the new faction we have been forced into we get punished?
Err...
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Hamburg
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That has always been the case for changing factions, as far as I am aware. Even in Season, say 3, if you changed from Qadira to Cheliax you lost access to those vanities.- Any faction-specific Prestige Awards or Vanities that you have previously purchased are retained as long as you remain in the new version of the faction. For example, if you had purchased the Trade Prince/ss Vanity available to the Qadira faction, you may retain the use of that Vanity for as long as you remain a member of The Exchange. If you change to a different faction, you lose access to all previously purchased faction-specific Prestige Awards and Vanities, and do not receive any recompense for their cost.How sure are you of this? You're the second person I've seen post something along these lines.
I really hope this is not the case. Several of my characters will not be going with the new "evolution" of their Faction, and if what you are saying is true, then they're being punished because of that.
I'm definitely not going to operate on this assumption until we hear an official word on the matter. If it turns out to be true, I'll be stunned.
I agree. It doesn't matter if you paid prestige for the change or used a free faction change, it's still a faction change.
And, as was mentioned above, the factiones aren't retired, they are just changed, also the Guide clearly states that they work as the old factions for the purpose of vanity and boon access.|
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Please let's not go into hyperbole by using the word "punish." you are not being punished by not being given an advantage that other characters switching factions have never had. And, actually, yes, the Sczarni did have some very strong national/regional ties to Varisia. While it may not have been as strong as the original 5, they were still there. Also, the Sczarni faction has been getting rather low reporting numbers, so they have been "falling behind" in the faction race, as it were. Instead of just outright retiring the faction, they've folded it into a new faction and given it the opportunity to redeem itself, numbers-wise. So, if anything, you're being rewarded. If you want to see The Exchange become a more Sczarni-like operation, then stay in The Exchange and make sure that you take the opportunities (that John has mentioned will be there) to steer The Exchange in a more Sczarni-like direction.
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Please let's not go into hyperbole by using the word "punish." you are not being punished by not being given an advantage that other characters switching factions have never had.
There is a rather significant difference between voluntarily changing your faction and having your faction significantly change underneath you so that it no longer fits your character.
I personally don't see it as a big deal but PLEASE don't deny that some characters are being harmed (at least a little) by the change
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Please let's not go into hyperbole by using the word "punish."
I'm not normally the type to jump to extreme conclusions or use "hyperbole", but this discussion upsets me. My reaction is to your interpretation of how we should handle this Faction change, and how you've taken it to be truth. I strongly disagree that your assumption is correct. That goes counter to the words "free Faction change" and the language that has been used by John Compton in the Know Direction podcast, as well as how he and Mike Brock have phrased responses here on the Forums.
Again, I will not operate under your assumption unless it is actually clarified to be true, and I encourage others to avoid it as well. I feel that telling your Lodge that this is the direction things are going is wrong.
As has been protested by players before, many characters will not want to switch to their "evolved" Faction. I have a Chelaxian who has no interest in joining the Dark Archive, I've heard people complain about Major Colsin Maldris "going rogue", and plenty of Sczarni characters have no interest in going to The Exchange. They should be allowed "one free Faction change", as stated in the Guide, and it should be free. Taking away things they've purchased (whether it be with gp or pp) goes against the definition of the word free.
So, unless it is clarified that these characters are getting punished, I will not be operating under that assumption, and I will encourage everyone else to not as well.
[/harshest response I've probably ever had in the history of my posts]
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Just to clarify, if I start a human fighter this Friday in the Dark Archives faction, he is eligible to purchase the armiger/hellknight prestige awards in the future with the requisite fame/prestige?
Also, my current Sczarni with the Front prestige award can keep it(grandfathered) regardless of what faction he lands in? Can he choose to remain Sczarni and forfeit all future mechanical benefit to being in a faction?
I must have read the faction section of the new guide 3-4 times now, it's very convoluted. I still don't know what a faction vanity is, seems an odd choice of wording for the prestige awards mentioned above since the word vanity is absent from that section of the field guide. Vanities such as businesses, followers, memberships etc are a good 40 pages later.
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I believe that the point of confusion / contention comes the differences between the "Changing your Faction" information, and the "Faction Retirement" information. Key points:
You retain your faction traits, if any, but lose any faction-specific Prestige Awards you have accumulated during your time with your old faction; generic Prestige Awards from Table 5–4 and Vanities (Pathfinder Society Field Guide 60) are unaffected.
Compared to:
Any faction-specific vanities, titles, traits, prestige items, or other purchases made while the character was a member
of the retired faction are retained by that character with no changes. After the faction is retired, none of these faction-specific items are available for future purchase.
Personally, I am of the opinion that once the smoke clears from Gencon and Mike and John get a look at this, this entire process will be considered "Faction Retirement" in terms of how vanities and the like are handled. Until we get clarification however, I personally am not touching anyone's toys.
Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Indianapolis
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I believe that there will be some updates to the guide (they couldn't get to them between its release and Gen Con.) And, we're less than a week after Gen Con - there's still a fair amount of work that is being done post-Gen Con, so it is one among other things.
So, I'm sure an update to the guide will be coming at some point, but I don't have a time table for that (I only recall reading about it on the boards a couple of weeks ago.)
Or maybe it was to the Additional Resources, I don't remember.
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You are correct.
Liberty’s Edge faction PCs qualify for Andoran faction
vanities and mission boons available in past seasons.
Likewise, Dark Archive faction PCs qualify for Cheliax
rewards, Scarab Sages as Osirion, The Exchange as
Qadira, and Sovereign Court as Taldor. Without a boon
that states otherwise, a PC cannot earn Sczarni vanities
or boons.