Jörmungandr's page

I'd personally hack in the Fear and Sanity systems from Horror Adventures, but beyond those already mentioned, there wasn't anything I noted. Personally I'd keep track of supplies though, an element of resources scarcity I think helps this feel more desperate considering the circumstances.

Hi Customer Service,

I'd like to cancel all my subscriptions besides my Adventure Path subscription. Nothing wrong with the products or services, I'm just tight money wise at the moment.

Thanks guys

Fairly crook today, seem to have caught the flu so I won't post much today, think I'll be sleeping instead.

I'm going to have to agree with the earlier statement, my troll senses are tingling mightily

Wow, I think my (now third level) sorcerer in PFS would make some people cry.

• No wand of CLW, 4 potions of healing instead
  
• Darkwood masterwork club.
  
• +1 Hakiri-maki
  
• sleep, snapdragon fireworks in his spell list.
  
• Lowest stat is an 11 wisdom, highest stat is his 17 int.
  

But he's fun.

I believe you're having what is refered to as "Bad Wrong Fun" and should attempt to immediately stop it. Perhaps a visit to your local physician may help.

Hi peoples, I had a private message sent to me from this thread, thought I'd say here that I finally replied since I missed the fact that I'd been sent a PM for about three days. Nothing else important to say :)

Small world

Hey Laraqua, you wouldn't happen to be from Adelaide would you? The net handle is familiar, if so this is Sean in WA :P

I hadn't noticed earlier that there was already a paladin applicant, if you'd like I can change Sohali over to a monk, or possibly a cleric, if you'd prefer no doubles class wise.

Oops, was thinking fighter for some reason :P

Edit: Bugger, too slow to edit the original post, well I dropped Rapid Shot for now.

Hi, I'd like to dot my interest here, I want to spend some time making a character though so I'll probably get back to you tomorrow morning (Aussie, so that won't actually be ages away).

So I was re-reading through an older AP and I noticed that when your characters interact with the queen at the start of Crimson Throne she's always got a buff on that makes alignment checks ping off of her handmaiden. Now the thing I find funny is not that it doesn't make sense but for a character to be constantly using that spell they'd have to internalise the fact that they're Evil with a capital "E" according to the majority view point of their world and that they have to hide it from evil sensing people like paladins. I think it'd take a fiar toll on me mentally to know that I'm evil enough for paladins to smite :)

Hmm, having another relook at Faiths of Purity and it isn't as bad as I remembered, it's more the weird structure of the paragraphs describing her adventurers, goals and taboos. The first two start with a sentence along the lines of "I swear to fight evil on sight" but finishes the paragraph with "unless that'd be dumb". Must say I hate the taboo section still and that it promotes lawful stupid play, "If you see an evil being done and do not rectify it you must seek out three similar wrongs and right them or loose your traits and class abilities until the penance is done". Wow, that last one was a run on sentence and I was paraphrasing.

Edit: Oh, and yeah, the goblins are so delightfully evil in PF, kinda makes me want a plushie of one :)

Chaotic Neutral from my perspective but that's only because there isn't any kind of Chaotic Douche alignment.

Jörmungandr wrote:

"What about that child over there?"

"Possessed"

All joking aside, I'd have a Paladin fall for this. Barring the child being literally an Apocalypse-bringer who couldn't be exorcised (or something like that), anyway. Paladins are supposed to risk their life to save the kid, not just kill him.

Oh I completely agree I was being silly with that :)

On a more honest note though, I've always found the idea of Paladins only being Lawful Good a bit unwieldy to me. I much prefer the idea that a paladin must have his alignment match that of his/her god and must follow a code based on his diety to maintain his divine patrons support (via smite/spells etc). I know this wanders a fair bit off topic and if people want to drop it as a topic like a hot potato I don't mind but for me the image of a dour Paladin of Pharasma hunting down undead, caring not a whit for the morality of his duty except for the fact that it must be done, appeals to me (Guess I could just play an Inquisitor though :P). It's also one of the reasons Iomedae appeals so little to me, her "Destroy all evil on sight no matter the circumstances" demands make her paladins Lawful Stupid.

"Wow, thats a heck of a pile of bodies you have beind you Mr. Paladin"

"Yeah, well as you can see they were demons, goblins and other assorted evil asshats so they deserved it"

"What about that child over there?"

"Possessed"

"Fine, well it seems you exemplify Shelyn's values so I guess it's onto a nice afterlife for you"

Pharasma judging a paladin.

:)

Jörmungandr wrote:

Oh, well yeah, it is always weird that your a "hero" if you wipe out a tribe of goblins or orcs, even if they were just sitting in a dungeon somewhere making sure some random adventurers weren't looting their masters dungeon :)

In some folks' games maybe. In others, guys that go around wiping out entire tribes of people are typically the ones the heroes need to be putting down.

(kinda goes back to Anakin really. His butchering of that entire tribe in Attack of the Clones really gets swept under the rug in that narrative after he admits to it)

I'm not a fan of the prequals so I won't go on too much of a rant but things like that are what I'd see as pretty much being the path of a chaotic evil character. I'm angry so I wipe out a tribe of people including the women and children. Afterwards I angst about it so its okay. Then I think celebacy sucks so I get married, then I get jealous about a life long friend getting a promotion over me so when I'm told to murder a bunch of children, no sweat.

To me the Choatic aspect is shown via his constant gnashing of teeth over his own actions but in the end needing very little motivation to murder, a lot. I mean the sand people are kind of understandable, the whole "red mist came down over my eyes" (Still kills kids though) excuse but the slaughter of the Jedi Temple?

He'd grown up from the age of ten(?) among these people, they'd tutored him during his formative years, played and laughed with him and because of a mere pass over of promotion? He gaily murders everyone he can find including ten years olds and gives himself over to a maleific force he has been taught since childhood is the equivalent of pure evil.

I, and I have no idea why but I've used them more then once, have a reoccuring society of civilised Orcs that are heavily based off of the Roman Empire (or at least how its stereotypically thought of) with an emperor, legions and an expansionist bent. Again, don't know why I like these guys but if you play in my games beware whispers of Emperor Krun the First, Uniter of the disparate Orcish hordes.

Oh, well yeah, it is always weird that your a "hero" if you wipe out a tribe of goblins or orcs, even if they were just sitting in a dungeon somewhere making sure some random adventurers weren't looting their masters dungeon :)

Also I apologize for being such a condescending bastard, I shouldn't be so quick to see daggers behind the words of others and I did assume the earlier comment was a dig on the US and Americans. They say it makes an ass of me, assuming.

Don't know if the GM wants to allow evil aligned characters but I'd think Johnny Marcone was built with Lawful Evil in mind (Mr. Butcher being an avid DnD fan apparently).

I've always thought Jack Sparrow and Ezio Auditore have places in Golarion, both wield guns so I'm in the pro-gun team I guess. As I said earlier though, the game exists within a specific time period at which point, by default, guns have not become common place. If the world of Golarion changes massively thanks to the introduction of firearms within the next hundred years and that bothers you house rule them out of the game since the problems caused by their introduction would have to be house ruled into the defacto setting.

Actually 2b gives the right, and has been used successfully within courts to defend people who have killed in self defence, that you can intend to kill if you are able to prove that you believed that it was the only way to protect your life. Now arguing about how much of a threat the other person posed to yourself has been debated over many times, and will no doubt again be in future, however all I was pointing out was that that when you stated that it was not legal to kill in self-defence within Canada, the statement was incorrect.

Edit: Also not claiming to be an expert on Canadian Law, I have however been using their Department of Justice's website. Some simple research goes a long way in supporting arguments and debate :)

Actually Canadian law on the subject is...

34. (1) Every one who is unlawfully assaulted without having provoked the assault is justified in repelling force by force if the force he uses is not intended to cause death or grievous bodily harm and is no more than is necessary to enable him to defend himself.
(2) Every one who is unlawfully assaulted and who causes death or grievous bodily harm in repelling the assault is justified if
(a) he causes it under reasonable apprehension of death or grievous bodily harm from the violence with which the assault was originally made or with which the assailant pursues his purposes; and
(b) he believes, on reasonable grounds, that he cannot otherwise preserve himself from death or grievous bodily harm.

So when attacked in Canada with presumably lethal intent you can be legally protected in the case of self-defence. Most modern "westernized" countries have similar laws regarding self-defence.

Edit: Oh, and I am neither American nor live in the United States.

So am I the only one that thinks that Anakin Skywalker in the prequals is Chaotic Evil? I mean all that angsting about what path to follow and how he is morally confused to the murder of young defenceless children in a few months time :P

The power of faith compells you to consider my application.

All kidding aside I'd like to apply with an Aasimar cleric of Pharasma. A young man coming into his power as a shepard for his diety, travelling south to not only to help civilise the south but to also make sure his faith has a place there.

Edit: Looking at your first post, normally I tend to think of concept as a couple of lines of text describing a character but I'm not sure if you're asking for a more complete background/description of the character in mind.

Look, this isn't worth fighting over and if you truly believe that all killing is evil no matter what you've probably added all you can to this conversation. If you want to talk about how a completely black and white moral compass has effected your games I'm more then willing to listen but you'll have to accept that within this thread not everyone shares your black and white view on the taking of a life.

I'm sorry but again your arguing about a choice of wording that we defined earlier to mean something in the context of this thread. Also you're loading counter arguments into your own argument.

You've written...

(Verb) Killing Jack was an evil act.

Why is killing Jack and evil act? Because you are depriving Jack of life and you do not have the right to do it. You have become judge, jury, and executioner.

So according to you vigilantism is evil, okay I can understand that even if it is a narrow construction, however you also say all killing is wrong no matter what.

Jack was executed after being judged by a jury of his peers.

According to you, the above is an evil act but you added that the act done by the killer of jack was evil due to their being no legal sanction "you do not have the right". So do you recognize the standing of state sanctioned killings or not?

Actually re-perusing there are quite a few things you'd have to drop/change before publication due to legal issues. The pantheon and pretty much any capitalized creature from DnD is their exclusive material. Also, I don't want to critique too much since I dont want to come off as a jerk but some additional reading on the subject of novel crafting might help in a few areas.

Well I guess sometime in the future of Golarion they will have reached a technological level approaching or even surpassing ours, hopefully with some more mystical elements, but eventual consequences of technology added to a game don't really factor in since the game is held frozen in a snapshot of time (or what seems to be a fifty-ish year period).

When you say novel I presume you hope to publish one day? If so you might need to drop the Eladrin, elves are open source and all but I'm pretty sure Eladrin are original DnD material.

Yup, at this point I think we have to agree to disagree as a group, some of us, myself included, do not use the term kill in the same way as the word murder. Murder is morally loaded with the expectation that it was an "Evil" act and a Killing is used as a morally neutral term. Even if you disagree with the notion that sometimes death can becaused by another human and not be an evil act it is how we're using the term. Rather then continuing to argue somantics perhaps tell us, perhaps just me, I might be fighting a solo battle here, how you play a game where any killing no matter how justified is an evil act and how it has affected your PCs with Paladins being a particular curiosity of mine :)

Edit: Don't mean that snarkily, I'm curious how you play a purely black and white moral compass game, killing near anything that can have a class level is an evil act so I'm curious as to how you work this into a game where Great Cleave can make you a spree killer.

As I said before, I don't mind the gunslinger but I realise its not everyones cup of tea, the thing I do find silly however, are arguments that they shouldn't exist because they break suspension of disbelief. Wizards, clerics and proven dieties only have effect on the world where it is interesting but a few guys with guns in a magical null zone break the fourth wall and game?

Saint Caleth wrote:

On the other hand, a ruler who realizes the value of technological solutions in a magical world can have a quickly trained army of conscripted peasants who with firearms each have the firepower previously reserved for spellcasters.

No, that's the point. He can't.

He can't get from the vague idea that this explosive powder can be used to hurl projectiles to a "quickly trained army of conscripted peasants with firearms" quickly. He probably can't do it in a lifetime. He probably can't even imagine that the first crude device some crackpot demonstrates to him can be turned into something you can pass out to common soldiers.
It was a long way from the first crude devices even to the matchlock.

I have to agree with Thejeff...

"Airplanes are interesting toys but of no military value."
- Marshal Ferdinand Foch [Professor of Strategy, Ecole Superieure de Guerre] (circa 1911)

Just because a technology exists doesn't mean everyone immediately thinks of how to apply it. Though of course the fact that there is to be a Prestige Class for the gunslinger means a large enough group has formed who use guns to have practices they pass on to aprentices.

Actually I think you have it askew, depending on the culture a Lawful individual may see your examples as murder or morally neutral killing depending on their cultures social morals and mores while a Good individual would normally find Killing, morally neutral or otherwise, to be abhorrent.

Lawful, from what I've taken from Pathfinder, is the following of a social or moral code that the character believes to be just. The moral compass of Good and Evil within Pathfinder seems to be judged from an "Average DnD Player"'s perspective. Watching an Antipaladin murder a troupe of traveling halflings is Evil while saving the same group is Good. The reason I say that Good and Evil seems to be judged from an impartial third party is that the Gods have their own Alignments, to the extent that Clerics have to be with so many alignment shifts to maintain their powers. Asmodeus probably doesn't consider his actions to be Evil however from the games standpoint his alignment is Lawful Evil meaning that something, presumabaly the players and games creators, are judging the god and the majority believe he is Evil.

The Aspis Consortium, single handedly controls the gun trade so as to not devalue or unbalance their carefully maintained economic manipulation.

Honestly though, I used to have a problem with the gunslinger but for whatever reason that block seems to have just disappeared. Basically, if I can look at Numerian Mecha-scorpion and think that its awesome not allowing a gunslinger becoems silly to me. Not that everyone has to like the Mecha-scorpion either. Still have a block on Summoners though, just can't like them for some reason, they seem like a tacked on Wizard conjuration archetype that got to big for its britches to me.

Yeah, colour me interested.

Sorry to butt in however, attacking someone's belief is against this sites terms of use and doesn't further your counter argument. I've personally talked to monks who don't think certain killing is evil (one was pro-execution and the other had been an army chaplin) and they were both a lot more devout then I'll ever be.

Edit: For anyone curious, they both worked at an Our Lady of the Sacred Heart school were I was working and loved booze a lot more then me :)

I may be mistaken but I thought the United States did have a lot of laws about the status and treatment of slaves in the past. Not that everyone followed them.

Edit: I was curious and did a quick bit of research. The United States had a ton of laws regarding the treatment, status and in some areas even the education of slaves (or more specifically the denial of education). At a quick glance each state had its own variations and bylaws and even then these changed multiple times during the course of US history.

I have to admit I love the idea of a Darklands exploration adventure as well. I love playing in and running games that have a strong "first time this has been seen by humanity" or "No one has entered this city in a thousand years" feel to them.

Oh, I hadn't even thought of a religiously themed adventure, I kept thinking in terms of organizations and groups like knightly orders and wizardly consortiums and the like. That would be pretty awesome and leads me to a follow on question. If you were going to do a religious themed AP which diety would you use?

I remember reading in the past that Skull and Shackles is in someways a test for a character themed AP, everyone being a pirate of some description, and that depending on if the AP were successful possibly doing similar themed APs in the future. So a couple of questions (even though I think I remember you saying your aren't the biggest fan of APs with themed characters)...

1. Is there any kind of decent chance in the future for a Knights of Ozem, redeem/put down Arazni.

2. If you were going to do a character themed AP, what would be your favorite choice.

Heh, thinking about this what I think I really want are a couple metaplot advancing APs but I don't think thats going to happen :)

I'm only just finishing book three now (I know, I'm some Johnny come lately) but I don't recall Varys having done any murdering yet, generally he does help those he percieves as able to do the most good without hurting his own position. So yeah I agree the guy is Neutral or maybe Neutral Good. Also how far I've read probably colours my perspective of Stannis, what I mentioned earlier is still fresh to me, though I agree with Deadmanwalking and realise that the later book will no doubt expand on his motivations (Bastard without mercy seem to be his defining trait thus far).

Sorry for the derail too, I'm just enjoying the books so much at the moment and the mention of other characters from book and film made me wonder about those from a Song of Ice and Fire.

Spoilering the following for people who haven't read the books but are watching the series :)

Well damn, fine make me keep buy boks :)

Morally neutral slavery is employment :P

Curious, if you guys have read a Song of Ice and Fire, where would you guys place the major families from that on the alignment scale?

He and the other Paizo employees will be playing iconics :)

My gods, just read this, the game and discussion threads. Really wish I hadn't been late to the party on this one. Hope you run something with a similarly chaotic/fun beginning in the future :)

The Minis Maniac wrote:

Hey James I've been thinking about how to make higher levels easier to handle, and I decided to adapt a armor enchantment from DDO called deathblock and make it a +3 or +4 equivalent armor enchantment, and it will make you immune to instant death effects. Do you think it might help? Do you think it's cool?

Instant death attacks, of which there are VERY FEW in Pathfinder, are not the problem with high level play. In fact, those type of effects can really speed UP high level play.

Wow, from that quote it's like you don't want hours of real time to pass per turn in mythic play... so weird :P

Thanks for the info, can't wait for the order to ship then :)

Wow, thats some amazing artwork :)