J R 528's page

The only real issue with trying to remaster the spells one to one is that acid grip is a reflex save and not a spell attack like acid arrow is so you can't normally spell strike with it. Probably best to keep acid arrow as it is if you don't just want to homebrew a new staff with some of the new spell attack spells. Custom staves have precedent though so it could just be that.

Absolutely correct and another issue with Acid Grip along with the Reflex vs the old AC roll to hit version is Acid Grip also gives you a forced movement effect.

Our group is looking at the various situations with information from the Pre-Remaster books on a case by case basis, while I wish that wasn't the case and we just had a flat ruling we could apply but I really don't see Paizo doing a complete rewrite of every book they have put out so to align it with the Remaster and if they were to do that alot of people would be upset with the need to repurchase all the old books. Hopefully they will just put out more detailed errata for books that need it as time goes on.

Honestly though TTRPGs or VTT RPGs has always been a collaborative effort and I and many of my friends have been playing since D&D and the other RPGs were new and we were always tweaking the games so it's not like it's a new thing.
Just to be clear these are all just mine and my groups opinions and experience your choices are obviously your own I just hope all of you and your group have fun however you play.

J R 528 wrote:

Xenocrat wrote:

Don't adjust any of the spells because of the Remaster. Ignition and Sure Strike if you must, but nothing else.

You do realize that in all probability after the final physical stock of the original Pathfinder 2e Players Core Rulebook is sold they probably will not reprint it and only print the Remaster version. That said they might still sell the PDF copy of it for a period of time but eventually they will stop selling that because it splits their player base even more than it already is with them maintaining the First edition of Pathfinder.

None of this is relevant to anything you asked or are proposing to do.

Ok I'll bite. In your "personal opinion" why shouldn't someone at their own table or group make what they view as appropriate and agreed on changes to the game. And for the record I more interested in an open discussion on my original question not someone putting out a blanket imperative but again to each their own I'm willing to listen to your viewpoint

P.S. To be clear my argument about the ending of availability to the original version of the Player's Core, GM Core and the various
Beatiary's lends itself the observation that any and all of the books released moving forward will only follow the rule set written in the ReMaster version so as to avoid any issues with OGL and any of the books that they did errata for that were released before the Remaster as posted it FAQ errata. So my personal viewpoint it makes more sense to make the conversion now where our group feels it's appropriate instead constantly going back forth on rulings (Pre-Remaster versus Post-Remaster).

My thought is that there is no good reason to burn your existing rulebooks either. The content in them is still compatible for the most part. Minor tweaks is all - tweaks that can also just be ignored if desired.

There is a lot of good content in those "Legacy" books. Such as the Magus, Thaumaturge, and Psychic classes. Those probably also won't be completely reprinted in a new book that has a different 'Remastered' name.

So there isn't all that much incentive to change your Spellstriker Staff to have some other spell on it instead of Acid Arrow (for example). Acid Arrow still works just fine with all of the other content and rules in Player Core and GM Core.

You can if you want to. But it isn't necessary.

Please remember that Secrets of Magic, Dark Archives, and even The Book of the Dead are not actually legacy in the sense that original Pathfinder Player Core book are in that they have already released errata for them (although maybe not as through as they could but that's personal opinion) and so far there is no indication that they will be left behind or ignored. If anything they may at some future date get fully updated but for now they are fully part of the system with some adjustments as needed (as an example adjusting for this change in magic schools and it impact on some of the Magus etc)

Don't adjust any of the spells because of the Remaster. Ignition and Sure Strike if you must, but nothing else.

You do realize that in all probability after the final physical stock of the original Pathfinder 2e Players Core Rulebook is sold they probably will not reprint it and only print the Remaster version. That said they might still sell the PDF copy of it for a period of time but eventually they will stop selling that because it splits their player base even more than it already is with them maintaining the First edition of Pathfinder. Considering the risk that they and every other game company faces hoping the WOTC and Hasbro don't try something again with the OGL.

My apologies for the double post.

Ok preface here I was looking at the Staff of the Spellstriker and looking to adjust the spells on the staff to be more in line with the Remaster. Produce Flame to Ignition no problem, True Strike to Sure Strike again that was fine. Then I look at Acid Arrow which it's direct replacement is Acid Grip which works fine although the whole forced movement seems a little odd a staff that is primarily geared towards a Magus using SpellStrike and I would argue that you could reasonably change that to Splinter Volley but hey that's just my opinion. And then I came to Echoing Weapon granted this all just my opinion but lets look a the spell. You build up a resonance in the weapon that at the end of your turn releasing that energy as sonic damage to "ONE" adjacent creature damage equal to "ONE" point for every successful strike up to a maximum of 4.

Hmm what can say ok it lasts for a minute, no to hit or AC issue PLUS
downside 1 to 4 points maximum after successfully striking "4" times in a round unless to cast from a high rank slot and only effects one extra target, and it's still a two action to cast.

Ok this is my personal opinion this should be a Cantrip not a leveled spell it would then auto level and while during its duration at the end of your round it would giving a nice little bump of damage if you have multiple foes, you could even go so far a to have it just be one round duration with one action to cast but sustainable up to a minute so its a trade off of losing one action

As an alternative I thought Conductive Weapon made more sense granted there is redundancy with +1 Strike Weapon part on the Staff and in the spell but you pick up the Effect of having Shock Rune for one minute so not a bad trade off.
Telekinetic Maneuver just works as is.

Opinions , Comments
I just curious what GM's and players take on this are.

Actually you forgot to mention Dawnsberry Days(for all of $5 on Steam in less 2 weeks) while it doesn't have all the bells and whistles of other products out it at least works at following PF2e rules a great deal more than anything that was mentioned. Bear in mind this a single developer doing the work on and it's follow up to his from his free proof of concept game "Quest for Golden Candlelabra".

Personally while I can see what alot of individuals are talking about with regard to the ReMasters impact on the Wizard I feel that what could've been done but wasn't was bring more to allow for indivdualaztion between the wizards which was lacking with the old school divisions and is still lacking with the new ones.

Looking at either version of the schools why would someone look to hire a wizard from any particular school over another. The system never addressed anything that differentiated schools in a significant way and please bear in mind I'm not talking about over powering I'm just talking reasonable differences between them. For example under the old the system if your were person dealing with a missing or lost person you would think that it would make sense to go to hire someone from the Divination School or under the present system a similar school might be called the Seekers but the game still has is next nothing that makes a wizard from either of these schools any better at doing the job than a Universalist with the various Clairvoyance or similar spells. There are no feats tied to schools except for Necromancy which I think is now sort of related to the Boundary school but I'm not clear on that and honestly the focus spells are seriously lacking.

Just to be clear I had hoped for this but I really didn't expect it considering the time frame they had for releasing the books and the amount of additional work that would be required but still some sort of suggestions or guidelines would have helpful and I at thought there could have been a little improvement on the feats and focus spells without hurting the page count or time for production to much.

Unfortunately this wasn't the case and we are still left with a class that outside few things and must of them were already part of the game when PF2 first came one wizard is pretty much interchangeable with another with very little to make unique.

A very minor typo on the Arcane spell list, it shows the Grease spell as being both shown as a 1st Rank and 3rd Rank spell but only in the short list, when go the detailed descriptions it is clearly shown as 1st Rank only.

The only thing that I have given any thought to is to take spell substitution out of the Thesis feature of the class and make a standard feature of all Wizard's. This would allow the Wizard to be more flexible without really increasing the power any and it stop the need to predict all the spells that you would all day at the same time the character is only able to change their spells when they are in exploration mode (with some possible risk).

I also have to agree that even you got someone else's spellbook , you still would have to spend the time and money to learn the spells in the other spell as RAW, and I think even if you already knew the spells in the found spellbook you would still need to spend time studying the new spellbook to fully understand the original writers short hand and spell methodology. So while you might not have to spend as much time and money as new Learn Spell action I would think that you would still have to spend something in the way of time and money.

Thanks for a much more detailed discussion than I expected to see following my question. After consideration I'm going to keep the cost and time outlay for transcribing a backup spellbook significantly cheaper than RAW for learning a spell (for example to learn a cantrip or a 1st level is 2gp I would think to transcribe it in another spellbook or spellbook analog would cost 2sp). My thoughts for this while it isn't magical itself you would still want it made of the best materials available to you and the time required to fabricate it I'm thinking 10 to 15 minutes per spell level and along with this would be a skill check equal to the learn spell DC minus 5 (so the previous cantrip to 1st level spell would a DC 10) with a failure being lost time. Critical failure being lost time and materials, success would be obvious, and critical success would cut the cost and time in half.

My reasoning is this gives it minor risk/reward option and same it keeps the concept of backup spellbooks from being entirely trivia

I would also say that you are not crafting magic item, it is just book with the spell incantations/Formula per say. These aren't scrolls and again even if you are going off a RAW ruling what is the cost. These aren't scrolls you can't use the spell book cast the spells you can only use them to study or memorize the spells.

I looked in the various books and on AoN and I haven't been able find anything on the cost and the time to craft, does anyone have ideas or suggestions?

Shout out to Gortle on remembering Rolemaster! I used to run campaigns in it years ago. Great system complex and deadly as hell though. Brings back memories thank you

I feel that much of the tabletop and video game examples have lost the feel for what I see as a wizard was shown to be in the older literature. They were varying parts scientist, engineer, philosopher, and artist. Some worked towards mastering magic to understand the how and the why of the world around them worked, while others did it to impose order on what they viewed as a disordered world but for whatever reason it is often a compulsion at least on an intellectual level that was impossible to ignore and that they understand and control this force and it's under laying rules in the world around them.

Where this differs from a Sorcerer is that while a wizard is studying and learning about magic a Sorcerer has it in their blood and bones either through birth and heritage or from strange accident, they can no more get away from it than they can get away from themselves. The side effect of this is it tints and bias their interaction with it and limits breadth or range in how they can interact but this gives them the advantage in that while they lack breadth they more than make up for that in their depth of understanding because of their natural intuitive understanding.

On the interpretation of the Wizard schools, what I would like to see, but I'm not really expecting it to have schools more refined the character than entirely define the character.
Such that possibly a School on Battle Magic might give some training in a limited number of martial weapons or something in that vein. Note Battle Magic, in my opinion, should not be defined by one school anyway, being as a conflict has many sides that could be supported with magic (seige craft, troop movement, espionage, control of terrain, etc)

This is just my take on

While I'm aware some people aren't entirely happy with the removal of the present version of Wizard schools and it's replacement schools that are more defined by what the character studied at the school (per the examples they gave such as the Battle Magic school or the Civic Wizardy). What I would like to see is for these schools to actually have a bearing on the Wizard beyond just character creation, such as feats unique to the school or possibly ways that you scale spells up also possibly unique to the school or as an alternative the school could possibly be able scale up certain spells easier(maybe a +1 level bump) and lastly look into making the focus spells useful as the player gains level.

I'm bringing this up because as it stands there is little no difference between Wizards of any of the Schools presently. The Spell Trickster in Pathfinder Infinite by Dustin Knight was a way allow a caster to modify and differentiate themselves even if they have the same spells.

Temperans wrote:

Wizard needs massive upgrades all around:

* Skills the same as other casters.

I feel like they could take it or leave it, they already get a bunch from being int based, after all.

I mean, shoot, spare a thought for the sorcerers, they get 3 or 4 trained if they don't add anything to int.

How about giving them an extra skill determined by their school

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* Reintroduction of prepared metamagic.

Hard disagree. Prepared metamagic wasn't particularly fun, and made everything a lot harder. Plus I'm pretty sure 2e wants to limit the advantages you get from being a system master, and I feel like that be harmful to that goal.

I don't fully recall prepared metamagic honestly but I would like to see more metamagic options but without getting as out of hand as they did in 1st edition

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* Upgrades to existing school abilities.

Agree.

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* More feats period (seriously, they have given wizards so few feats).

Totally agree on this in particular it's annoying that there so little that differentiates the Arcane Schools choice. You get one extra spell and a couple of often rather lackluster Focus spells but nothing in the way of feats so often your best choice is to take a Universalist just for extra bonded spell.

And more interesting feats. I'd like if the class feats they get can stand on their own in regards to flavor.

I myself having literally been working on feats for the Schools and Thesis's (VERY Slowly unfortunately) with the thought of putting it up on Pathfinder Infinite

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* More archetypes that actually care about Int and work with Wizard's proficiency. Way too many are more focused on literally any other class. (Only Con gets less love).

Would be nice.

What also be nice is if you had some Archetypes that helped open up the availability of weapons and armor (keep it simple you don't have give full access to all martial weapons maybe gain to one to three specific weapons/weapon types and maybe gain access to light and or medium armor. Presently it's Mauler for Two Handed Simple and Martial weapons and Sentinel for Light and Medium and nothing else outside the Fighter for weapons and the Champion for armor access in the main classes archetypes. Where as every one of casting classes archetypes the spell and you can even gain from a fair number of non main class archetypes.

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* More poaching of other classes. If all other casters are going to get feats that let them take spells from any list, why are Wizards being left out when their thing is studying magic?

Yeah. Call a feat "elective studies" or something and let them pick from a handful of spells from other spell lists.

Personally this isn't as much of an issue for me but I can your argument for it.

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* Rebalance Thesis because right now some are clearly way too weak. Not to mention that Spell Substitution should had been either a feature or a feat if wizards had actual features.

This really comes back to the issue with a lack of feats that truly differentiate. As an example I can see a set of feats for the Transmutation School Wizard having similar options like the Wild Shape Druid in that they could stay in a Battle Shape for much longer duration etc

I like spell substitution as a thesis. But a lot of them might need a boost, that's true.

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* Related to more feat, more metamagics and way to modify said metamagic. As well as ways to modify spells period.

Seconding more metamagics.

See my previous comments

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* If spontaneous casters are going to get ways to get prepared spells, Wizards should have ways to get spontaneous spells.

WHY??

Eh... Wizards...

Apologies for any formatting issues I'm doing this on my phone.

I looked at that but Pathbuilder2e does not connect to Foundry.

Actually yes it does. There are two modules that will import from Pathbuilder2e into foundry. One is the original Pathbuilder importer that the original developer stopped supporting well someone else took it over and it works now (Last time I tried it had an error where it do the Class feats/feature twice it's not a big deal to remove the duplicates off of the sheet.) and the second one is called Pathmucher this one also has a minor bug(much less problematic in my opinion, it only shows the Focus spells as Divine. All you have to do is put a new Focus Spell entry for the correct type and stat and then just drop in the correct Focus spell and delete the wrong one and your good) The Devs of both of these modules are aware of the bugs and are working on them to my knowledge.

As a side note there is also a module that imports from Wander's Guide to Foundry but I haven't tried it yet.

Just curious has anybody has seen any official or homebrew feats for the different Wizard schools like they did with Necromancy in Book of Dead?
I keep thinking it would be a great option to differentiate builds a little more or maybe more in the way some additional theses(yes that is plural for thesis at least per Merriam-Webster) could make a decent Pathfinder Infinite supplement. I'm just wondering if there is any material I haven't found or if anybody is working on a project.
Thank you for any feedback.

I'm on a wait and see viewpoint but I am worried that they could start shutting down or limiting access to new game info or rules to existing products thru a exclusivity of licensing approach. I really wouldn't want to see products like Pathbuilder , Wander's Guide or Foundry VTT get handicapped just so Pathfinder Nexus can be promoted, while they might not do this it is a very common business practice to increase revenue streams.

Hopefully Paizo continues follow their open community-based support and doesn't go the way of walled off garden approach but time will tell.