Erioch Ourevest

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Organized Play Member. 91 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 6 Organized Play characters.


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I see we have an errata section with the FAQ now, which is awesome. Is there an appropriate place or method to submit things we're pretty sure are typos/errors (and not just rules we don't like)?

The sticky in the rules forum indicates that's not it, but I'm not sure where else to go with it.


Does Free Agent rep count towards all-faction rep, or not until it's moved to a regular faction?

Asking for a character that would kinda like to be able to buy my season 1 boon.


There seems to be an assumption here that someone picking up a glamered weapon would instantly know that it isn't what it appears to be.

Is that in the rules somewhere? This one seems to read they'd need true seeing "or similar magic" to reveal its true nature. I guess an identify spell would tell them it's a glamered weapon?


How do they work with powered armor?


The "decisions made" issue is for fusion seals, not fusions. Also, the merciful switch isn't one that you make when a fusion is applied; it's an ongoing feature.

Regarding pricing, we really do need some clarification on this. It has a similar issue to special materials, though at least they specify that they go on individual rounds. For both of them, you run into an issue where there isn't a rule to support buying an individual bullet (for most regular ammo types).

For special materials, at least they're priced way below what you'd pay to put the same on a reusable (in that case melee) weapon. The fusions being 50% off is more in line with them being "by the box" in that they're cheaper with less utility. Making it by the round would make the costs scale much worst. A box of holy heavy rounds would be 3,690, as opposed to 360 for a 2nd level weapon.


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Part of the issue may be that there are questions buried deep within these discussion threads, so different phrasings of a question might each get a few FAQ clicks.

But anyway:
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs42a8m?Rail-cannon-vs-cover


Bipod explicitly states that it doesn't work. Bayonet does not have that same note, so it should work.

Same with uniclamps.

And my gunner harness...


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Xoshak4545 wrote:
no wait, I guess you would want to do the duster first ..duh.... so halved is 43 -20 = 23 and it would cut threw .. hum ...yea I don't think I want something ignoring the maxed out hardness of a 20th level weapon

But I want to cut through a starship...


breithauptclan wrote:
Talk to the GM of the game for a final answer.

SFS play :-/


How do weapon cost modifiers interact?

Let's say I want to buy a Snowgarden Productions tactical starknife.

That's 110 base, for the star knife times 1.1, for the extra 10%, is 121.

If I want an adamantine alloy tactical starknife, that's 110 +2,500 for the material: 2,610.

What if I want an Adamantine allow Snowgarden Productions tactical starknife?

110 * 1.1 + 2500 = 2,621

or

(110 + 2500) * 1.1 = 2,871?


Nefreet wrote:

I advocate putting an energy-type Operative weapon in your Bayonet. Most opponents have a lower EAC than KAC.

But to answer the question, your Operative weapon does not lose the Operative quality when placed in a Bayonet.

As far as I'm aware all energy-dealing operative weapons are advanced melee, so might not be worth the 1-2 feat investment, but yeah, they also avoid the penalty.

(Alternately, dwarven operative ftw)


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A baton or survival knife would be less elegant than other operative attacks, and so would get the -2 from bludgeoning or slashing bayonets.

What you really want to do is put a sword cane on your sniper rifle.


BastionofthePants wrote:
Throw in knee shot and you can possibly make them prone, at which point you maintain the pin on a 7.

Knee shot with a garrote is an interesting visual.


If I want to throw the fire extinguisher at someone, can I do it as part of the action to throw it?

Does the answer change if I say I want to throw it "to" instead of "at?"


BigNorseWolf wrote:
raw: your armor doesn't stop you from being.. well.. you. Powered armor is just armor, it's not a vehicle, it's not a gundam it's just your armor.

I guess it might matter whether it's medium or large PA, since large is described more like a gundam. You still take the damage from hits, but the limbs you use aren't your own. But from a RAW perspective, the bipod specifies that it doesn't work with gunner's harness or PA mounting, but the others don't specify.

They don't address accessories attached to the ranged weapons you mount, so it seems to be allowed. Though it does open questions about bayonets and uniclamps.

BigNorseWolf wrote:
power: I don't see any mechanical difference between someone in heavy armor vs power armor with a gunner harness firing away.

This. The two have some overlap, but I'm paying for each of those abilities. Buying PA gets the hands-free option and improved strength; buying the gunner's harness gets reduced FA penalty and (pointless) str req reduction.

Pantshandshake wrote:
I don't see any reason why you couldn't wear it with power armor...

Since I play mostly SFS, this will probably be my fallback. At tables where I can't use it on the mounted gun, I'll just wield the gun and mount... something else.


I'd say yes, because I really want it to.


Stabilizing battle glove is a nice one, for when you find yourself in unexpected zero g.


HammerJack wrote:
That is correct. With a garrote, it is possible to trick attack with a grapple.

Are you certain? The grapple weapon property says "When wielding a grapple weapon, you can use it to perform a grapple combat maneuver without having your hands free." The grapple combat maneuver is still a standard action, which I think means it doesn't work with trick attack.


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Steve Geddes wrote:
HastyMantis wrote:
Right, I more meant to ask if there was a publicly stated policy about errata. Some insight would be great.

The policy Dark Midian was referring to was that of not releasing PDF errata for a book until the printed copy receives a revision. That’s been affirmed many times during Pathfinder’s lifetime.

It seems to me they are following a similar approach with Starfinder,but I don’t know that they’ve every explicitly stated as much.

Thanks. Starfinder is my first Paizo game, so that's new to me. It kind of explains why several of the "FAQ" entries are answered with what appear to be complete changes in wording...


Right, I more meant to ask if there was a publicly stated policy about errata. Some insight would be great.


Stabilizing Battle Glove is understated, but solid.

For ~200cr you always have a melee weapon and can move more around easier in zero g.


Dark Midian wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
gustavo iglesias wrote:
Locotomo wrote:

Yes, why don‘t you take 30 mins of your time and update your core rulebook pdf, especially starship combat dc‘s?

That would be awesome, thank you very much
Don't think that's done in 30m
I'm a graphic designer and so have some idea of the process it would require. If given access to their systems, I could have it done in 5. The only thing holding it back is company policy.
^ This. They could easily make an errata PDF like they do when a book goes into a new printing, put it on the product page, and say, "This document will be added to the official book once we run into a new printing, for now people can print it out." The only thing stopping them is their errata policy and the time/money investment of the team doing more errata and someone whipping up such a PDF.

Is there an actual "errata policy"?


Pax Miles wrote:
Robert Gooding wrote:
And since soldiers can get power armor proficiency through their class with the right choices they can then dump str and use the str of the power armor

Regarding that:

Enhanced Tank (Ex) grants the Powered Armor Proficency feat.
Guard's Protection (Ex) grants Proficiceny in Powered Armor.

So I think the dumping Strength route only works with the Guard Fighting Style.

Though in both cases, once you are in the powered armor, the strength of the armor applies, not your strength, so it becomes very murky what the 13 strength is needed for.

Really wish this would be addressed in a FAQ.


Nefreet wrote:
How would you determine the saving throw?

10 + 1/2 item level + Dex modifier.


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CRB p.380 wrote:
The type of object thrown doesn’t change the damage type or any other properties of the attack.

Pretty straightforward rule.


Dracomicron wrote:
Starfinder has advanced magic AND technology. They have subsequently conquered the problem of gun barrels bending slightly after being dropped short distances OR used as a delivery system for melee weapons.

But lost ancient technologies, such as rifle slings and pointy knives.


Claxon wrote:

Yeah, Riot Shield are in the playtest.

Although they have drawbacks.

And rules, notably.


SuperBidi wrote:
HastyMantis wrote:
Seems like some folks are forgetting that the line weapon doesn't ignore barriers; it damages them and the things behind them.
I haven't understood what you are implying. It damages them, but only destroy them if they deal enough hit points. So, you can find something hard enough and transparent you can use as a moving wall.

So, transparent aluminum. Hardness 10, 15 hp per inch of thickness. By the time they can get a null-space chamber big enough to move their 100 bulk, 2 inch thick wall, they're also going to be using weapons that will destroy it in one or two shots. Plus, the enemies also get to act. A moving wall isn't a feasible plan. If it was, people would already be doing that with arrow slits.

SuperBidi wrote:


HastyMantis wrote:
Even if they do: concocting elaborate plans to try to get an advantage on your enemy is a time-honored gaming tradition.
Elaborate, everything is in that word. I'm speaking of using always the same plan as soon as you are indoor.

If a GM doesn't react to what the players do and just lets the same lazy plan work again and again the game won't run long, so don't worry about it.


The bayonet bracket description is shockingly uninformative; it doesn't even say you can attack with the attached weapon.

I would say it's the former; you can full attack.


Seems like some folks are forgetting that the line weapon doesn't ignore barriers; it damages them and the things behind them.

Carrying around giant glass shields is a good way to waste money and time; not a very effective tactic.

Y'all are describing some pretty outlandish scenarios you think players (or GMs) would pull to get a couple rounds of advantage.

Even if they do: concocting elaborate plans to try to get an advantage on your enemy is a time-honored gaming tradition.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Metaphysician wrote:
Why is it so unimaginable that the intended result is "Yes, you actually do have to land if you want to full attack"?
In the case of barathu it's a living derigible that spends all of its time effortlessly floating in the air. From a planet that doesn't even HAVE ground. Yet it needs to land to full attack. That makes sense for someone with wings or a jetpack. Floaty barathu? Not so much

On the other hand, barathu have average maneuverability, so even if perfect let you hover for free, they wouldn't be able to.


DM_Blake wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
DM Blake wrote:
But then I deleted that post because the sentence right before the one you quoted says that Quick Draw is a Swift action.

General: Drawing a weapon is a move action

Slightly specific: drawing a weapon can be done as part of a move action if your BAB is +1 or higher. (you know, 99% of the time)

Rather specific: if you have quickdraw you can draw a weapon as a swift action instead of the other methods (mind you, you don't have to, a ysoki for example may want to move and draw a weapon, shoot, and then quickdraw a healing serum out of their cheekpouch)

really really really specific: If you have quickdraw you can draw a thrown weapon to throw it as part of an atack action or part of the attack in a full attack action then drawing the weapon is part of the attack.

Fits the raw and the rai.

That's not really how language works though. Specifically, that's not how the word "Additionally" works.

The word "Additionally" means "In addition to the thing I previously said". It does not mean "Instead of the thing I previously said.

I might say "This glass is full of water. Additionally, you may drink its contents." If you drink it, you would expect water. If it's milk, you would (at the very least) wonder why I said "Additionally".

When Paizo used "Additionally", they're literally saying "it's a swift action AND you can use it as part of an attack action in this special case."

I don't think they meant it that way. Neither do you. But they said it that way.

I think, in this instance, "additionally" should be understood to mean "here is another ability this feat provides."


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BigNorseWolf wrote:

That the line weapon stops when it hits cover or a creature it can't damage from hardness does not mean that that's the only way it stops.

True. It also stops at the end of its range.


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Dracomicron wrote:
Hilary Moon Murphy wrote:
But.... but... the RP is the best part! Aeon Throne is too delicious to rush.

Oh we RP.

Dr. Zorkfeld commits surgery as if he were a real doctor, for example.

We just do it shorthand.

"We can't steal that, it belongs to Astral Extractions!"

If this forum allowed images...


HammerJack wrote:
Honestly, I don't think that would stop arguments at all, since wall thickness does not affect hardness, and you would get the same silly result.

Point. I was thinking about it applying per square(or border) of wall/material/object. It would sort out some of the "50 feet of rock" nonsense results without also introducing "shoji stops a railgun" nonsense results.


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The book does not appear to be very clear about gloves. The example in "HOLDING AND WIELDING WEAPONS" (CRB P. 168) talks about holding a longarm while wearing a battleglove: you can do it, but can't attack while holding the longarm in that hand.

Does that mean the same rule generally applies for other hand-suits?

This is a list of every melee weapon that seems like it might be something one wears on a hand. The format is: {name of item} - {word from description that qualifies it as a hand-worn article} - {what that description says about holding stuff}


  • Battleglove - "glove" - Can Hold Objects
  • Shell Knuckles - "glove" - Unspecified
  • Bone Cestus - "gauntlet" - Unspecified
  • Injection Glove - "glove" - Unspecified
  • Painclaw - "gauntlet" - Cannot Hold Objects (or be disarmed, also a full action to put on)
  • Heat-Amp Gauntlet - "gauntlet" - Unspecified
  • Searing Grip - "glove" - Unspecified
  • Electrovore Glove - "gauntlet," oddly - Unspecified
  • Pulse Gauntlet - "gauntlet" - Unspecified
  • Resonant Gauntlet - "gauntlet" & "glove" - Unspecified
  • Polarity Gauntlets - "gauntlet" - Unspecified

Battleglove has a specific note that you can hold objects, as in the example. Painclaw specifically says you cannot. The others say nothing at all.
What say y'all?


Just for fun, if I were to write a FAQ entry *cough* errata *cough*for this, I would change this sentence:

CRB wrote:
However, if an attack fails to damage a creature or obstacle hit in the line (typically due to damage reduction or hardness), the path is stopped and the attack doesn’t damage creatures farther away.

To something like this:

MeRB wrote:
If a creature or obstacle hit in the line has any applicable damage reduction, resistance, or hardness, subtract that value from the damage applied to creatures farther away. This cannot lower the damage below zero.

Then we could all just argue about cover and concealment.


Damanta wrote:

I do. I'm not targeting the creature.

It happens to be in the area of effect created by line and is then subjected to the effect, which in case of a line weapon is started by checking if my attack roll beats the relevant AC

Edit: actually, based on all of this I retract my statement about cover applying to line weapons. It doesn't apply because my effect never interacts with cover other than checking for stopping completely.

Even concealment wouldn't apply.

This is how I read it.


BigNorseWolf wrote:


Slightly specific: drawing a weapon can be done as part of a move action if your BAB is +1 or higher. (you know, 99% of the time)

Not any move action, though.

CRB p.247 wrote:
If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you can combine drawing or sheathing a weapon or weapon-like object with moving up to your speed as a single move action.

Offer not valid on crawl, reload, or guarded step. Void where prohibited.


Related: I think you can full attack while flying, as a 5+ Hit-and-run Soldier. Can't do it while hovering, but if you keep moving...


HammerJack wrote:
That is not why you can't trick attack with a quickdrawn thrown weapon. The reason is that quickdraw only allows you to draw a throwing weapon as part of the attack as part of the specific attack and full attack actions. Trick attack is neither of those.

Ah! Good call.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
It doesn't look like you could trick attack with it though does it.

I think there's a way, but it's pretty bad:

The operative property says you use your dex to hit "when you make a melee attack" so you'd still be using strength to throw.

Trick attack says "you can then make an attack with a melee weapon with the operative special property or with any* small arm."

I think you could make sub-optimal, strength-based trick attacks, if you put a throwing fusion on an operative weapon.

*it's not actually 'any' small arm, but that's a topic for another thread.


Ascalaphus wrote:
HastyMantis wrote:
I'm pretty amazed this hasn't shown up on the FAQ yet.

I'm hardly "amazed". Very few Starfinder FAQs get posted to begin with, so this one not making it in isn't amazing.

(Also, from a glance through the first page, I don't see the big problem. Line weapons aren't the same as line AoE spells. The word "line" looks similar but they're very different beasts. Line weapons are a very specific thing that trumps some generic rules about attacking through obstacles. It's pretty much all there in the description of the property.)

I also think it's fairly clear, but the question lead to a very long debate with many participants and no real resolution, which is why I thought it would get FAQ'd.

It seems like the FAQ is mostly used to issue errata, so maybe "amazed" was the wrong word. Would you accept "dismayed?"


I'm pretty amazed this hasn't shown up on the FAQ yet.


Xoshak4545 wrote:


the way I'm looking at this now, everything fits neatly, which kinda makes me think I'm right

You are.


Hiruma Kai wrote:

Just to take a different approach to this question, how would people's rulings here in regards to line of effect be applied to the Solarian Black Hole revelation? It is an AoE power, which says it passes through solid objects. Contrast line weapon rules with Solarian Black Hole rules.

Does total cover through a wall prevent the use of Black Hole on targets on the other side because you don't have line of effect?

No, the power works through solid obiects, even if those objects are also walls.


Ravingdork wrote:


HastyMantis wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Why is it that I seem to be the only one who perfectly understands what BigNorseWolf is trying to say...?

I assumed it was because you were a sock puppet.

You and BNW are using a weakly stated general rule, that a wall blocks line of effect for "most effects" and deciding that it overrules a specific rule that give a method to determine what can stop its effect.

That might be what BNW is doing, I'm merely making a prediction of the developer's intent. Since that coincides with his statements, yes, I'm supporting his interpretation (which is also mine).

You needn't call me names, HastyMantis.

A) A "sock puppet" is a secondary account used to provide onesself support in an argument. I wasn't calling you names; I was calling you BNW (and tongue in cheek, at that).

B) Still a little salty about having our reasonable interpretation of the rules referred to as "Aristotelian chicanery," so civility complaints seem a bit thin.


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Ravingdork wrote:
Why is it that I seem to be the only one who perfectly understands what BigNorseWolf is trying to say...?

I assumed it was because you were a sock puppet.

You and BNW are using a weakly stated general rule, that a wall blocks line of effect for "most effects" and deciding that it overrules a specific rule that give a method to determine what can stop its effect.


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Pantshandshake wrote:

I know that for damage, a double double is a triple. I believe that's called out in the critical hit rule section. But I can't recall seeing it for non-damage things.

And, correct, I don't believe they're enhancement bonuses, I believe they are insight bonuses. Which also don't stack with each other.

If we're saying the doubling is itself a bonus, it has no type listed. The operative's edge bonus itself is certainly insight, but clearly it can be modified.

Good idea looking for the critical hit section. That used the word "multiplying" which got me to try searching that.

CRB p.242: OTHER RULE TERMS wrote:

Multiplying More Than Once:

When you are asked to multiply a value or roll more than once, the multipliers (×2, ×3, and so on) are not multiplied by one another. Instead, you combine them into a single multiplier, with each extra
multiple adding 1 less than its value to the first multiple.

For example, if you apply a ×2 multiplier twice, the result is equivalent to multiplying the value by 3 (or rolling the damage three times), not multiplying it by 4.

So that actually seems pretty definitive at +6 (double twice is triple)

I guess the movement costs are the specific beating general, since they do compound.


My understanding is that weapons with discreet ammunition (rounds, shells, mini-rockets) and usage greater than 1 are expending that number of ammunition units each time they fire.

The vast majority of non-heavy projectile weapons do have a usage of 1, and the exceptions seem to have an explanation built in (i.e. they're named dual- or quad-). For some, the weapon description might hold relevant information.

To your point about single shot, the autotarget rifle, which is automatic, does fire a single round normally. The machine guns seem to use a few rounds, but that seems to fit the theme to me.

If you're thinking of, say, I dunno, random example here, a rail cannon, I'm not sure whether you'd think of it firing a burst or multiple round simultaneously. (either way, they might go through walls)

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