Force Soles Questions


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Q1: It specifically says "when you intentionally step into thin air", do these not work in a vacuum?

Q2: If you activate these in zero gravity, does it essentially give you a fly speed? Does orientation (ascend/descend at 45 degrees) matter in zero gravity?

Q3: If you activate Force Soles in a region with gravity, could you walk perpendicular to gravity in the air upside down? Or are the force fields not "attached" to your foot?

Q4: Mark 2 Force Soles appear to let you stand in air indefinitely, is that true?

Q5: Can you run/charge through the air using Force Soles?


2 people marked this as a favorite.

A1: My money is on them working whenever you intentionally take a step off of something solid, into a space which has no floor, regardless of the thickness of the air. Alternately, there’s no air thinner than a vacuum.

A2: It’s not flight, you’re still walking. So yes, orientation still matters.

A3: Nope, because you’re walking on the force soles. If you were upside down, you’d fall (which is why you need to intentionally step into ‘thin air.’ Being knocked off a cliff while wearing these would still result in you falling.)

A4: Sure looks that way.

A5: It doesn’t say you can’t, so I’d say yes except for while you’re ascending.


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Thanks for your response!

Pantshandshake wrote:
A1: My money is on them working whenever you intentionally take a step off of something solid, into a space which has no floor, regardless of the thickness of the air. Alternately, there’s no air thinner than a vacuum.

That's what I assumed as well.

Pantshandshake wrote:

A2: It’s not flight, you’re still walking. So yes, orientation still matters.

A3: Nope, because you’re walking on the force soles. If you were upside down, you’d fall (which is why you need to intentionally step into ‘thin air.’ Being knocked off a cliff while wearing these would still result in you falling.)

These two are related, and I'm having trouble rationalizing them one way or another.

If orientation does matter in zero gravity, then "descending" (relative to your body's orientation, I guess) would require the force fields to be attached to the bottoms of your feet so you could "pull" yourself down at a 45 degree decline. If you're able to freely orient yourself and push off in any direction, then "ascend and descend" don't matter and you've basically got a fly speed.

If orientation does matter in zero g, then in regular gravity, if the fields are rigidly connected to your feet in some manner, then shouldn't you be able to walk upside down (albiet awkwardly)?

And, technically, if Force Soles does temporarily project an independent field that isn't rigidly attached to the bottom of your foot, but floats there as you step on it, couldn't one determine the exact distance the field appears, and wear special shoes that encompass the force field top and bottom, allowing the player to walk upside down?

Pantshandshake wrote:

A4: Sure looks that way.

A5: It doesn’t say you can’t, so I’d say yes except for while you’re ascending.

I also agree with these answers.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
WatersLethe wrote:
Q1: It specifically says "when you intentionally step into thin air", do these not work in a vacuum?

These should work in vacuum. Given the most common zero-g environment tends to also be in vacuum, I feel like they would have called out if it doesn't work where there is no atmosphere.

They're listed as magitech, and their fluff is force fields, so they really should work anywhere.

WatersLethe wrote:
Q2: If you activate these in zero gravity, does it essentially give you a fly speed? Does orientation (ascend/descend at 45 degrees) matter in zero gravity?

Given there is no up or down in zero gravity, my guess is it gives you something better than a fly speed, since flying means you have to spend movement turning or spend actions hovering. If you're walking on the ground, you're free to direction as you see fit. Orientation shouldn't matter in zero gravity. Every direction essentially becomes forward.

WatersLethe wrote:
Q3: If you activate Force Soles in a region with gravity, could you walk perpendicular to gravity in the air upside down? Or are the force fields not "attached" to your foot?

Unclear. Given there are no rules related to being upside down or sideways within a "square", its totally up to your GM. Core rulebook wise, it doesn't matter, as there is nothing that interacts with orientation (other than prone, which doesn't matter here).

I'll note, ascending and descending is relative to gravity, not where your feet are. Just because a character with a jetpack is flying upside down, doesn't make ascending higher any easier.

WatersLethe wrote:
Q4: Mark 2 Force Soles appear to let you stand in air indefinitely, is that true?

Yes. Given you can walk as if on the ground, and you can stand in one place on the ground, I don't see a problem.

WatersLethe wrote:
Q5: Can you run/charge through the air using Force Soles?

Given it lets you move your full land speed, I don't see why not. Since you can't charge up an incline, I don't think you can charge while ascending.


I'm reading these as not having an always-on field that acts like a floor for you, I'm reading them as when you make a step motion and your foot doesn't hit a floor, the force soles turn on and give you a floor for that step.

(Gravity On)
So, if you were upside down, and made a step motion, then the force soles would click on and make a floor for you, but you're still upside down. So if there's gravity, you're going to fall away from the floor you just made. Alternately, since you have to intentionally take a step for these to turn on, a super easy ruling to make is that it takes some kind of resistance to use the force soles, resistance you wouldn't get without the weight of your character behind the step.

(Gravity Off)
The only difference is that you won't actually fall. It's sort of like flying, but I'd rather not call it that to reduce the amount of rules interactions that may or may not take place. Other than that, I agree with how you say it would work.

(Special Shoes)
Cool idea, but these don't exist in game, and I'be super hesitant to house rule them into existence.


In zero G I think they would simply count as you always having an object to push off from. So, essentially half your move speed as a flight speed.


Quote:
Given it lets you move your full land speed, I don't see why not. Since you can't charge up an incline, I don't think you can charge while ascending.

Where does it say you can't charge up an incline? I can't find a rule anywhere that prevents you from doing that (as long as it's not difficult terrain).


Sorry, I'm used to seeing inclines sufficient to change your elevation by 5 feet labeled as difficult terrain, but you are correct they are two separate rules definitions and you could have an incline that isn't difficult terrain.

For a closer reading of the force sole rules, I'll note:

Force Soles,Armory,page 92 wrote:

The maximum upward angle possible is 45 degrees, and you move at a rate equal to half your normal land

speed.
CRB, page 248 wrote:

If any line from

your starting space to the ending space passes through a square
that blocks movement, slows movement (such as difficult
terrain), or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge.

I interpret "move at a rate equal to half your normal land speed" as slowing movement. So even though you might be able to charge up a non-difficult terrain incline (say a gentle 5 degree slope or something), the explicit rules for force soles make you slow down as long as the angle is greater than 0 degrees.

Given in a single move action you could move up at an angle of 45 degrees, moving 5 feet forward and 5 feet up (diagonal) costing 10 feet of movement. Then forward 10 feet, and then back down at angle of -45 degrees costing another 5 feet of movement for a total of 25 feet.

That is the equivalent of simply moving in a straight line over a small 5 foot tall hill on a battle map I think.


Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

How do they work with powered armor?


They work exactly like force soles in power armor.


another question about that part "you must end your movement on the ground or you fall.", for the MKI version.

It does not precise move action, so can the movement last for several round in combat? Does it work with the operative trick attack? If it does , it basicly a flight speed for operative?


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

It does not precise move action, so can the movement last for several round in combat?

No.

Does it work with the operative trick attack?

Yes.

If it does , it basicly a flight speed for operative?

No. Flight speed has specific mechanics that do not apply. They are distinct.


HammerJack wrote:

It does not precise move action, so can the movement last for several round in combat?

No.

why?


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Because that's not what "end your movement" means in other rules, and there's no language that gives reason to believe mk 1 force soles are an exception.

Examples:
"You can’t end your movement in the same square as another creature unless that creature is helpless."

"Sometimes you may need to end your movement while moving through a space where you’re not allowed to stop. When that happens, you stop in the last legal position you occupied"

You can't stop in another creature's square by declaring that you will still be moving next turn. You can't stop in midair with mk 1 force soles that way either.


Now that s a good answer, thanks!

Community / Forums / Starfinder / Rules Questions / Force Soles Questions All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.