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Should a PC with Arcane Sight be able to figure out the teleportation restriction in the Sunken Queen? It's a magical effect, so I'd probably say yes (as soon as they're inside), but what do you think?


Thanks for the ideas! Do you have a stat block without the buffs and one for the simulacra lying around by any chance? ^^


SamMule wrote:
Would it be better to make them smash the door down and deal with the repercussions? I'm not sure I want to get in the habit of giving them keys for every locked object just because none of them want to put skill ranks in disable device.

With no ranks in DD (and likely some heavy armor), will they even try to be sneaky? If so, it might be best for them to learn the hard way that getting in is a big part of silent infiltration. I'd just let them bust down the door, and maybe the Alchemist (or someone else) will use some skill ranks to prepare for such things in the future.

If you don't want that, is Anevia an option? At least for the front door? Imo, they should at least notice that they'll need this skill if they want to be sneaky.


Thanks for the statblock and advice!

AwesomenessDog wrote:
Are they immune to all mindaffecting effects or just one effect at their discretion?

Two of them (the Ninja and Arcanist) drew the Tyrant card from the Harrow Deck of Many Things, becoming completely immune to mind-affecting spells cast by the wearer of an Artifact of Kazavon. As written, Illeoaa relies heavily on mind-affecting stuff; I'm probably gonna swap out some (but not all) of those spells.

AwesomenessDog wrote:


Here's the version I made of her if you want to just take it and swap back out the mythic rank (or keep that too). Things to note is I swapped the aristocrat ranks because there's no reason she couldn't have retrained; we are running max HP for PCs and enemies; I didn't rewrite her tactics; and this includes all her buffs already applied and active thanks to Overwhelming Presence).

Thanks, great statblock! I'll probably use some, if not all of it. The numerical bonuses ( AC and attack) feel like they might be a bit high. My party probably has around 40 AC and 30 to hit most of the time.


My Party has nearly completed castle Korvosa (only the throne room encounter and Sermignatto remain), and I'm worried they'll breeze through the sunken queen and Illeosa.

The party is pretty powerful, with very little weaknesses. Two are immune to Illeosa's mind-affecting effects due to Harrow, among other stuff.

I'm a bit stuck on how to make the final fight challenging for them. I already gave Illeosa Mythic (Marshal) 1, and plan to make her untargetable until the Taniniver is dead, but I can't imagine anyone but Illeosa, Ithier and the Dragon to be a real danger.

How do I make the fight interesting?


I'd say the Paladin should remain under the effect of suggestion. "Obviously harmful", as I understand it, means "directly harmful". Paizo AP enemies are fond of ordering PCs to kneel before them, which, while very likely to result in harm, is not directly harmful.

The rule is to prevent making enemies walk off rooftops, imo.


My previous post was resolved, but does anyone have an idea, how Sermignatto is able to use Togomor's spells and such? Magic Jar explicitly states that abilities and spells are not usable.


First off, I love the premise of this. In Book 2, they already reclaim a dwarven-made fortress, and the dwarven commander there has information on the Sky Citadel (which is what he sold his soul for, iirc). So this could be a fine basis to start from.
On timing, I'd say after book 2 and before book 5, because once they start on the Labyrinth, everything is on a timetable. Of course it's more epic the later it happens, but I'd also say that they'd have the most free time during book 3.

There is official info on Jormurdun, the citadel, detailing some of the environmental dangers around the citadel, and that 1/3 of it are home to a clan of Duergar(while the rest is still covered in traps and ancient guardians), worshipping Shivaska and led by a demon cleric (CR 19). This could be the basis for the big scary demon and the tainted creatures. Maybe even have some tainted/possessed dwarves surviving. Somre redemption is also a great idea.

The mass combat rules are not for everyone, but if your party likes them, you could do it in a similar way as Book 2: first a siege, and then clear the important stuff without an army.

Concerning layout, maybe Book 4 or 5 of Ironfang Invasion can help, it includes adventuring in a (lost) subterranean Sky Citadel.

For more advice, you could also ask this question in the r/pathfinder_rpg subreddit, this forum is a bit empty at times.


If I remember correctly, the Urgathoan temple beneath the hospice doesnt't have a lot of exits, right? So he could set them a trap, or just destroy the exit and hope they don't have teleportation spells.

In case that's not practical, I agree that the good doctor would not stay until the PCs emerge. He'd probably order all remaining guards to try and stop them, and then report back to his superiors. I don't see him fleeing, as the Red Mantis and the queen are not people you want to bail on. This would either be the Queen or Kordaitra, in either case they could encounter him again beneath Longacre; either as opponent or in a cell. The Queen could say he was executed, or that he just fled the continent on a ship before they knew of his trechery.

I'd also say that Rolth would likely be encountered in Old Korvosa, with the emperor. I also like your idea of replacing the Emperor with Rolth and Gaedren, I'd say they are similar enough in sadism and personality to have the stuff with the final blade and blood sport fit. Not sure whether they'd put up with Salvator though. And didn't Rolth hate his father or something? Long time since I read that part...


Okay, so the PCs will have to do the last part of the book marked as criminals, getting a taste of what is to come. I like that.

I was thinking about how this would affect the conclusion of the book, and I'd say it stays pretty much the same. If they expose the Doctor (whether he is alive or not), the Queen will label him a traitor, and make it seem as though the accusations against the PCs came only from him (because she can't condemn the heroes who stopped the plague). So if they defeat and expose Davaulus, they'd regain their status as heroes.


Sounds really fun! My party sadly never really explored the whole labyrinth; they quickly found out how to reset the lever, turned the first tile twice (into the symbols), fought and defeated Sivit, and found "Vencarlo".

Evilthorne wrote:
the cleric taking 15 minutes to memorize stone shape.

I learned just this week that clerics can only prepare spells once per day, in contrast to the arcane casters. No leaving slots open to fill them later. Turns out I'd been doing that wrong all the time.


Soo... my PCs have finally arrived in Korvosa , but I have a problem. They never revealed themselves. The AP just seems to assume they do something heroic, so then the "Rebels" confront them, Trifaccia gets his wishes off, afterwards the dragon, etc.. My party just kept low, one of them disintegrated Illeosas Statues from hiding, but with all of them either invisible, hiding, or disguised, they searched for Trifaccia, and then tried to follow him (which didn't work).

They then just started searching the castle, completely skipping the two more "public" encounters.

I'm gonna try baiting them into confronting the false rebels by having them target the shop two of them own, but if that doesn't work, I have no Idea how to "trigger" the Encounter with Trifaccia.

On a different note, I'm not sure I understand the castle's defense correctly. Are the "welcoming party" (Mavrokeras and Togomor) supposed to just teleport on top if the PCs whenever they trigger an alarm somewhere? They would be seriously limited due to the close quarters if it's inside, but waiting until all the other encounters are cleared makes little sense.


Kasoh wrote:
But without making NPCs mythic, they will quickly fall behind in utility though, but it does cement that the PCs are the stars of the show. I can easily imagine a version of Wrath where the GM includes Irabeth as a member of the party and the story becomes about her. Not ideal.

I agree, it's good if the PCs are more powerful than the NPCs, they are the chosen heroes after all. And for the love of Iomedae, Irabeth (or any Iomedae Paladin) would be the worst GMPC possible, with the sword, the herald business and, y'know, being a Paladin in a Demon-Focused adventure.

I like the idea of the "group leadership", it allows them a lot of flexibility, and helps interact with multiple NPCs (one at a time). I think I'll add a GMPC to round out the party of four PCs, and give them the option to bring any one NPC with them on missions (starting in Book 2).

Thanks for the advice!


Kasoh wrote:

My preferred method is to use the NPCs in the story to accompany the PCs. Creating another character can be a lot of work, especially in combat as the mythic stuff piles on.

...

It is always nice to have someone around in the party to say 'No, that's a dumb idea. Don't you remember what the Voice in the Sky just said two seconds ago?'

Thanks for the advice again. It really helps to have someone to ask stuff, and you've been very helpful through all the threads I opened.

The NPCs seem perfect for that, and there would probably be one to fill any niche. And while I don't find the Book 2 NPCs all that compelling, I could obviously change that around. On the other hand, I kinda want in on the mythic character-building fun, and those NPCs (except for a certain Abyssal Heretic) don't become mythic. Also, a GMPC would allow me to always have a background-ish voice of reason in the party, no matter what NPCs they bring.

My main fear is that if my PCs take every NPC with them, I'm gonna have a hard time keeping up, during RP as well as combat.
Maybe I'll have my "GMPC" as part of the Party and set a hard limit on the number of NPCs they can bring (thinking 1-2, if it's one, they'll probably bring Paladin or Succubus all the time).


I'm preparing to run Wrath when my group finishes the current AP (Crimson Throne). During the latter part of that AP I noticed that having a voice in the party is really helpful for me. I can close any gaps in the party loadout, thereby freeing them to play what they want, and I can give them hints and nudge them to roleplay if necessary, without it coming from the disembodied voice behind the scenes.

My players likely won't have a divine caster, the only healer being an Investigator. He will probably be able to deal with HP damage in downtime, but in-combat healing, buffs and remove X will be a rare commodity (apart from items maybe). I was thinking to provide them with a GMPC who can heal, possibly taking Hierophant and/or Marshal path to best enable them. Something like a cleric, bard, etc..

I'm reading NobodysHome's Journal, and he did have a GMPC with them, so it seems possible. On the other hand, the AP is already pretty full of NPCs who can accompany the party, and who I want them to engage with.
How doable is a GMPC in Wrath?


Thanks for the advice, they can give it to Irabeth then. Letting it bond with a non-paladin would be fine, but as the sword becomes a holy avenger, it would be kinda wasted.

Another question: I've been reading Nobody'sHome's Journal, and noticed the high number of rests the PCs have. Aravashnial can't prepare new spells due to his blindness, right? So he only has the spells he prepared to assist them through the whole book?


Hi there (I wonder if this is still active).
My group is finishing up another AP, this wi be next. It looks like there won't be a Paladin in my party. What do I do with Radiance? Do I just ignore it? I didn'tike the idea that only one PC gets a cool scaling weapon anyways.


Hi there, my group will be finishing Crimson Throne soon, and we're looking for a new campaign. Our finalists are WotR and Azlant.

Maybe you can tell me about Ruins of Azlant:
- how is the fights/RP balance?
- How linear is the story? Lots of small missions, or more straightforward?
- it looks like a lot of mystery/detective work, with the BBEG only being revealed pretty late, is that correct?
- does it involve colony building rules or anything?
- it sounds like a rather slow campaign, is that so?
- is there much that needs to be rewritten or changed?
- Other things I/we should know about this AP?

Thanks in advance!


Hi there, my group will be finishing Crimson Throne soon, and we're looking for a new campaign. Our finalists are WotR and Azlant.

Maybe you can tell me about Wrath:
- how is the fights/RP balance?
- How linear is the story? Lots of small missions, or more straightforward?
- is it really impossible to balance? (I have some experience with adjusting stats on the fly)
- do I need to rewrite much?
- Other things I/we should know about this AP?

Thanks in advance!


I've started prepping the last book now myself, and I changed her aristocrat levels to Medium. This changes absolutely no stats, apart from spirit bonuses and such. I chose to have her always take marshal spirit, to add 1d6 to failed rolls by her allies 3/day, and allow everyone else to take the +2 weapon damage. Her simulacra will also have this spirit, adding up to a whole lot of extra d6es my party will have to deal with.
This is still weaker than having her go single-class.

I'm still contemplating adding a mythic tier, depending on how well my PCs deal with the rest of the book. It feels weird, because one of the basic mythic abilities you can choose is immortality, which is her whole goal, but I'll just take something else.

Scàthach Ulster wrote:
Okay, so the advice here is all very solid. Something important to remember- Ileosa herself is an Evil Bard. You know what Bards do? Mind Affecting Effects. A simple first level spell (prot vs. alignment (evil))accessible to most spellcasters removes these as a problem, and there are more powerful spells that bestow this effect. I *strongly* suggest making Illeosa not an enchantment monster or, at the very least, make her a Bard/XYZ Gestalt.

This is a very valid point! I'll have to reexamine her stats and spell choices. You're right, focusing on harmful mind-affecting effects is probably bad, non-mind-effecting debuffs and battlefield control would probably be a better idea.


Odraude wrote:

I always imagined it like Warped Savant said. A bit more French sounding, maybe with an accent over the last syllable.

So 'je-gah-REH'

According to a pathfinder audiobook starring Varian Jeggare, it's more Italian (which makes the most sense for Cheliax, iirc the Kintargan Guards are called "condottieri" or something).

In that audiobook, it's pronounced "Je-GAH-rey". The "Je" pronounced like in Jeffrey, emphasis on the second syllable, "rey" like Rey from Star Wars sequels.


It can't be cut short easily. Basically, the first three books are very coherent, and belong together. After the third book, you could try and depose the queen politically, but you know she is too powerful. So the next two books you search for something to break her power. In the last book you come back - powered up - and try to defeat her.

I agree with Kasoh, the PCs could either just leave Korvosa after book 3, or you could run a toned-down assault on the castle with her present (but obviously weaker). You'd need to make the crown less powerful then.

Another option, at least story-wise, would be to skip books 4 and 5. They don't really add a lot to the overarching plot (except for Mantis and Maiden, if you're playing the anniversary ed.), just provide some backstory on Kazavon. In that case, you could either scale down the 6th book level-wise, while still using the whole book (except for the artifact they need), or you could do a time-skip, breeze over how they got the sword and what they found out, and just level them up to 15 instantly to take on book 6.


Inspectre wrote:
Gidonamor wrote:
Olmac wrote:
Laori ends up in the torture chamber of Zon-Kuthon. She endures 3 months of pain and in the end convinces Zon-Kuthon to resurrect the party to complete the mission. How did she manage this, she volunteers to be the sacrifice for The Eternal Kiss.

This and the patron mechanic in the Curse of Strahd videos by Puffin Forest (youtube) inspired me to come up with some patrons who would resurrect the party - with a caveat. I'm thinking about using the corruption rules from horror adventures to symbolize some boons and drawbacks they gain from being in league with mysterious forces who want them to succeed.

Zon-Kuthon is certainly one of them, I'd use the shadowbound corruption for him.

Runelord Sorshen is another, as she wants the PCs to succeed (as mentioned in the teamster card in Book 6 anniversary ed.). I'd use Aboleth (reskinned) or Vampire for her.

I'm struggling to find more possible patrons though. There are a few contenders, but for most of them, being able to resurrect party members is a bit of a stretch power-wise. Vimanda Arkona would be an option (they killed Glorio), but she might become an antagonist. Lorthract is on Illeosa's side, so he wouldn't work.
Any thoughts or suggestions?

I would like to chime into this part of the conversation to ask if Lorthract is REALLY on Ileosa's side. He's a devil, they're big on the whole "fulfilling the agreement in exact wording, and screwing over you on the interpretation". He's provided a lot of powerful support to her, yes, but I don't know if Lorthract has ever gotten enough detail to flesh out his full motivations in Korvosa. There's several potential reasons why he might decide to hedge his bets by positioning himself as the PCs' patron as well, and letting the mortals sort out who actually wins (positioning the chess board so that everyone is "damned if they do, damned if they don't" - another favorite tactic for devils!). One such reason is he may be concerned that Ileosa...

That's a good point. Lorthract stands to gain all of Korvosa if Illeosa succeeds (although this would probably expose him, and his enemies thing he's dead at the moment). Him trying to play both sides is a cool idea, as well as the infernal enemy. Thanks for the ideas.


Olmac wrote:
Laori ends up in the torture chamber of Zon-Kuthon. She endures 3 months of pain and in the end convinces Zon-Kuthon to resurrect the party to complete the mission. How did she manage this, she volunteers to be the sacrifice for The Eternal Kiss.

This and the patron mechanic in the Curse of Strahd videos by Puffin Forest (youtube) inspired me to come up with some patrons who would resurrect the party - with a caveat. I'm thinking about using the corruption rules from horror adventures to symbolize some boons and drawbacks they gain from being in league with mysterious forces who want them to succeed.

Zon-Kuthon is certainly one of them, I'd use the shadowbound corruption for him.

Runelord Sorshen is another, as she wants the PCs to succeed (as mentioned in the teamster card in Book 6 anniversary ed.). I'd use Aboleth (reskinned) or Vampire for her.

I'm struggling to find more possible patrons though. There are a few contenders, but for most of them, being able to resurrect party members is a bit of a stretch power-wise. Vimanda Arkona would be an option (they killed Glorio), but she might become an antagonist. Lorthract is on Illeosa's side, so he wouldn't work.
Any thoughts or suggestions?


Very cool. Mine just managed to slay the third anchor, Beshallam. They went through pretty methodically so far, clearing the gatehouse, the lower keep and first floor, the gatehouse and the upper keep and heights, in that order.
They're probably going to enter the Donjon this weekend. So far they had a pretty easy time, the spirit ward only triggered once so far.

I was reading up on the Donjon in prep, and noticed something weird in F10 (the Prelate's encounter).

Room Description wrote:

Magical darkness fills the chamber, preventing illumination levels within from rising above dim light. A daylight spell (or any 4th-level

or higher spell with the light descriptor) nullifies this effect for that spell’s duration, but does not dispel the darkness.

Is this supposed to be darkness or deeper darkness? Can creatures with darkvision see through it?


Where'd you come from, Weredigo?


Olmac wrote:


I admit that Castothrane is a tough one. One of the things I did was when an anchor was killed, the PCs would hear scream that reverberated through out the castle, and feel that the very foundation shuddered for a minute. I also had the characters walking around with this feeling (aura) of oppression and dread. When an anchor was killed they felt a weakening in that aura of dread.
[...]
Sadly my party was TPK'd by Nihil. I did come up with a way to continue the adventure path though.

That's a great idea, I wish I knew it before they killed Castrothane. Maybe I'll just retcon it and say they (after killing the next anchor) remember that happened with him, too.

How did you salvage the adventure with the whole party dead? I feel Scarwall is the toughest spot to introduce new party members, let alone a whole party.


The Cyclone could have the effect that whenever the character fails a Reflex save (/Dex-based roll/any save?), they are knocked prone by a sudden gust of wind.

The Paladin could give a character the ability to smite evil(tm) once (per day?).

The Teamster could also grant a +1 against mind-affecting effects.

The Crows could be changed to instead steal the item/kidnap the NPC for Illeosa or some other enemy. That way, it's possible to get them back, and they add to the challenge (the enemy might use the item or hold the NPC hostage).


My players are currently within Scarwall, and I'm thinking about how to approach the last book, including the Deck of Many Things. I'm mostly happy with it, but some cards don't feel right to me. This is especially true for Cards that kill/remove a character, because it's either "waste a harrow point", "waste resources reviving them" or "new character" (As I don't think they would - for example - travel to the plane of air, just to get their companion back.

So my goal is to use the hivemind to find other fitting effects for those cards.
Rough Structure: Original Effect - Problem - Suggested Change.

The offenders:

The Avalanche:
The character is imprisoned, either by the imprisonment spell or some powerful being.
This is just a dead PC.

The Crows:
The character must make a choice between his most valuable item or a major ally of the GM’s choice.Whichever the character does not select is destroyed or slain and cannot be restored by any mortal means.
This is not horrible, but killing a major ally doesn't really have a ton of in-game drawbacks, and just makes life difficult for the GM.

The Cyclone:
The character is drawn into the card, appearing in an arena-like chamber surrounded by ghosts. There, the character must fight an elder air elemental alone. If she can’t defeat the elemental in 1d6+1 rounds, she is instantly transported to the Elemental Plane of Air.
Again, dead PC. With Korvosa on the line, the party won't mount a rescue mission to the plane of air.

The Demon’s Lantern:
The character’s body disintegrates. All that remains are her items and a glowing gem containing her soul. This gem is worth an amount equal to the character’s level x 2,500 gp. A miracle, resurrection, true resurrection, or wish is required to restore the character; doing so destroys the gem.
Dead PC or just a wasted card.

The Forge:
The PC must choose armor or a weapon he owns to be reforged into another suit of armor or weapon of equal or lesser gp value. Any gp value not spent is lost.
This is OK, but somewhat boring.
The Card is neutral, so any effect should have a positive and a negative side.

The Midwife:
The character gains exactly enough experience to advance to the next level.
This is alright, but I'm unsure how to use it with milestone leveling. Is that PC now one level ahead of everybody, or do they just level up earlier? Any other suggestions are also welcome.

The Paladin:
The PC is granted a holy avenger. If the character who gains this card’s effect currently wields Serithtial, this card has no effect and the player instead gains a permanent +2 increase to an ability score of her choice.
I have one Paladin in my party, and he's probably the one who's going to wield Serithial. For everyone else, a holy avenger is only useful for sale, which is pretty underwhelming.

The Sickness:
The PC becomes afflicted with incurable blood veil. The disease cannot be cured by any effect short of a miracle or wish spell.
This is thematic, but does nothing but effectively make the PC spend resources on restoration every day.

The Tangled Briar:
Once per day, the character can use speak with plants to ask a single question of a plant. Using this ability upsets the surrounding flora, however, causing 1d4+2 shambling mounds with the fiendish creature template to erupt from the ground and attack the character, regardless of the surrounding terrain.
Why would anyone ever use this?

The Teamster:
When the character draws this card, he receives a vision of a beautiful ghost. With a successful DC 35 Knowledge (arcana or history) check, he recognizes the woman as Sorshen, Runelord of Lust. The ghost informs the PC that Ileosa intends to destroy her legacy, and commands the PC to defeat Ileosa before the passage of 7 days. If Ileosa has not been defeated in this time, Sorshen is displeased and the PC gains a negative level that cannot be removed—a new negative level is gained each additional week that passes without Ileosa’s defeat. If the PC is slain by accumulated negative levels in this way, he becomes a wraith. As soon as Ileosa is defeated, any negative levels imparted by this card vanish and the character immediately gains a permanent +2 bonus to his Charisma score.
This is wicked cool, but it's a bit sad that any positive effect kicks in only after Illeosa is defeated.


My players are currently within Scarwall, and I'm thinking about how to approach the last book, including the Deck of Many Things. I'm mostly happy with it, but some cards don't feel right to me. This is especially true for Cards that kill/remove a character, because it's either "waste a harrow point", "waste resources reviving them" or "new character" (As I don't think they would - for example - travel to the plane of air, just to get their companion back.

So my goal is to use the hivemind to find other fitting effects for those cards.
Rough Structure: Original Effect - Problem - Suggested Change.

The offenders:

The Avalanche:
The character is imprisoned, either by the imprisonment spell or some powerful being.
This is just a dead PC.

The Crows:
The character must make a choice between his most valuable item or a major ally of the GM’s choice.Whichever the character does not select is destroyed or slain and cannot be restored by any mortal means.
This is not horrible, but killing a major ally doesn't really have a ton of in-game drawbacks, and just makes life difficult for the GM (me).

The Cyclone:
The character is drawn into the card, appearing in an arena-like chamber surrounded by ghosts. There, the character must fight an elder air elemental alone. If she can’t defeat the elemental in 1d6+1 rounds, she is instantly transported to the Elemental Plane of Air.
Again, dead PC. With Korvosa on the line, the party won't mount a rescue mission to the plane of air.

The Demon’s Lantern:
The character’s body disintegrates. All that remains are her items and a glowing gem containing her soul. This gem is worth an amount equal to the character’s level x 2,500 gp. A miracle, resurrection, true resurrection, or wish is required to restore the character; doing so destroys the gem.
Dead PC or just a wasted card.

The Forge:
The PC must choose armor or a weapon he owns to be reforged into another suit of armor or weapon of equal or lesser gp value. Any gp value not spent is lost.
This is OK, but somewhat boring.
The Card is neutral, so any effect should have a positive and a negative side.

The Midwife:
The character gains exactly enough experience to advance to the next level.
This is alright, but I'm unsure how to use it with milestone leveling. Is that PC now one level ahead of everybody, or do they just level up earlier? Any other suggestions are also welcome.

The Paladin:
The PC is granted a holy avenger. If the character who gains this card’s effect currently wields Serithtial, this card has no effect and the player instead gains a permanent +2 increase to an ability score of her choice.
I have one Paladin in my party, and he's probably the one who's going to wield Serithial. For everyone else, a holy avenger is only useful for sale, which is pretty underwhelming.

The Sickness:
The PC becomes afflicted with incurable blood veil. The disease cannot be cured by any effect short of a miracle or wish spell.
This is thematic, but does nothing but effectively make the PC spend resources on restoration every day.

The Tangled Briar:
Once per day, the character can use speak with plants to ask a single question of a plant. Using this ability upsets the surrounding flora, however, causing 1d4+2 shambling mounds with the fiendish creature template to erupt from the ground and attack the character, regardless of the surrounding terrain.
Why would anyone ever use this?

The Teamster:
When the character draws this card, he receives a vision of a beautiful ghost. With a successful DC 35 Knowledge (arcana or history) check, he recognizes the woman as Sorshen, Runelord of Lust. The ghost informs the PC that Ileosa intends to destroy her legacy, and commands the PC to defeat Ileosa before the passage of 7 days. If Ileosa has not been defeated in this time, Sorshen is displeased and the PC gains a negative level that cannot be removed—a new negative level is gained each additional week that passes without Ileosa’s defeat. If the PC is slain by accumulated negative levels in this way, he becomes a wraith. As soon as Ileosa is defeated, any negative levels imparted by this card vanish and the character immediately gains a permanent +2 bonus to his Charisma score.
This is wicked cool, but it's a bit sad that any positive effect kicks in only after Illeosa is defeated.


Olmac wrote:


The spirit song tells all. All four are pretty clear once the players meet them.
[...]
A spirit first, red war his thirst
Still stands at post of old;- - - - Captain Castothrane

I'd say all are clear once they meet them, except Castrothane. Any of the undead could be standing "at post of old" and the red war thing is more flavor than anything to identify him by. My players are still not sure if that was him. They are, on the other hand, also still debating whether Serithial is a weapon or a person, and I have no idea how that is not clear, so maybe they are the problem.

Also, Mithrodar can chain a new anchor, which they have no way of finding; maybe even two, if they take their time.

I'm hoping they talk to Beshallam or Risibeth, so I can clear up some confusion.


Yossarian wrote:
I don't understand why you'd want to trap PCs in Scarwall for 3 levels. I don't see significant benefits, and I can see plenty of downsides.

I'd say the main reason is that some things (like the curse effect of not getting sleep, or the dimensional anchor) can be easily negated by just stepping out of the castle.


Yossarian wrote:

I consider it 100% essential that the PCs have a strong connection to Korvosa: the AP expects them to proactively work to defend and support the city. If they don't care about the city the AP will very possibly fail horribly. GM's post in this forum sometimes about this going wrong for them: that as trouble increases in the city their PCs just want to leave. So I kept this simple and made it a mandatory part of each of PCs backstory to tell my why they cared deeply about Korvosa. Because each player has come up with their own reason, they are even more invested in it.

The connection to Gaedren is much less essential. In our campaign we had one PC with a strong motivation to find Gaedren (and then Rolth), and another PC who had a weak motivation to do so. That was enough to get the party to go after him.

I agree completely. The characters have a lot of reasons to just leave the town behind, which need to be balanced out by a connection to Korvosa and her well-being. You could of course make something up, maybe a prophesy that the BBEG needs to be defeated, otherwise *insert bad consequence the party cares about*.

For an established party, a connection to Gaedren should be pretty easy, he could just do something to one of them, which should be enough to get them all on his trail. Campaign traits are not essential.


watchcave wrote:
Klein wrote:
I have a PC who will likely in the near future be bringing his dead (evil) father within a bag of holding into Scarwall. Looking for ideas on what (if anything) should happen to the dead body upon entering Scarwall? The Soultrapping effect mentions a creature dying while inside of Scarwall as well as undead creatures created inside or undead that enter and stay for a week, but in this case the body is just dead so I'm looking for ideas if anything should happen with Scarwall's curse and the body?
In my opinion, nothing would happen - the soul is not present, its already departed on the River of Souls.

I agree. Scarwall affects souls and undead, not dead flesh. At least RAW.

You could of course add something, or - should they take him out of the bag - have something animate or possess his corpse.


First, I second MrVergee's idea. Making her untargetable at first should protect her from the typical rocket tag that defines high-level pathfinder.

Are you playing the Anniversary ed? In that version, she has a Dragon created by the pool, which it can recreate, and 6 simulacra.

You might still want to make her stronger. In that case, I'd first drop her levels in aristocrat and go single-class instead. If she has enough minions and protection, Bard shouldn't be too far behind Sorcerer.
The second adjustment would be to give her mythic ranks. One should suffice, with powers that play into her love of manipulation and mind control. I'd use Trickster I think, or maybe Archmage or Marshal.


I had the same problem in my game.
One option would be to have the players make PCs who have a personal interest in Korvosa (likely because it's their home). One of my PCs had a family in Korvosa, so he couldn't really just leave.

You could also change where Lamm is. The players would clear his hideout, fight his minions and alligator, but he is not there. They find the brooch and the deck, and discover that Gaedren is turning a profit from the uprisings, and the Guard is searching for people to apprehend him (or some other plot hook).
Then you just drop him into a different encounter, somewhere in Book 1 or 2.

In the Anniversary Ed., Rolth is Gaedrens son, so you could also do something with that.


My PCs just met Malatrothe, and saw through her deceptions. Now, she originally wanted to take the PCs to Mithrodar to trade them for souls. The book states that, if they see through her disguise, she'll give them information and possibly aid them in killing a spirit anchor.

What I'm wondering is, why wouldn't she just lie again, and lead them right to Mithrodar? Why set them on the course of defeating Spirit anchors, if that wasn't her original plan?

I feel like she wouldn't need to give up on leading the PCs to Mithrodar just because her disguise failed...


I've been thinking about ways to replace the animals, and absolutely endorse the idea of summoned pigs.

My first idea, on the other hand, actually was humans. And while slam-dunking children into wolverine pits might not be a good fix, shrunken mooks might (could be explained as an outcome of the Rod of Wonder). This would be criminals in Pilts' employ who fell from grace (bit more goofy version).
Alternatively, he is rather fond of using his guillotine, so why not just play with the heads of his victims?


I’m thinking about Ukwar’s body just disappearing when not killed with a glass or obsidian weapon, including her armor and weapon. Otherwise, she would just be extremely weak, and the effect when she is finally killed would be less intuitive.

My PCs have now destroyed Knurlott, I’ll have him scavenge equipment from their haversack and attack them the first rest after he’s restored... That will be fun, although the player carrying his armor does suspect the Graveknight (luckily, he is too thrilled about the cool enemy to metagame).


Hi there, anyone had Vimanda survive, while Bahor died? In my game, Vimanda successfully tricked the PCs into killing her brother, and now Meliya Arkona leads a (slightly troubled) house Arkona.

I feel like the AP's designers didn't think of that option, because any choices (during the last harrow thing in book 6, and the resolution of book 3) mainly hinge on bahor.

How did/would you handle that?
I've mainly been playing her as Bahor 2.0, only a bit more cautious towards the PCs.


Yes, RAW the bard could use countersong for that, as it is a sonic effect.

You could of course buff the DC (which I wouldn'tdo), or change the effect to still have a little penalty on a failed save (which might be an option).

But how often has the Bard used countersong before? In my opinion, this is a place for a niche ability to shine, and I'd let them have the joy of actually using countersong.

Also, I'd suggest posting stuff like this in the Scarwall GM thread, because players might also read this.


My First idea would be to buy a scroll if raise dead. I wouldn't judge important enough for something like that, but I don't know how your GM does things.

Also, did someone witness you killing it?


Another question that came up, this time about the harrow point uses:

Anniversary Edition harrow rules:
Divine Wrath: A PC with levels in a class that grants bonus spells based on his Wisdom score can spend a Harrow Point to increase the power of a spell from that class’s spell list as he casts it. He increases the DC of that spell by 2 and gains both a +4 bonus on caster level checks to overcome spell resistance and a +2 bonus on attack rolls for that spell.
Greater Channeling: A PC can spend a Harrow Point to enhance his channeled energy; his effective level for determining the effects of his channeled energy increases by 2, and the save DC to resist its effects increases by 2. He doesn’t expend one of his daily uses of channeled energy when he spends a Harrow Point to enhance it.
Wisdom Rerolls: A PC can spend a Harrow Point to reroll one Wisdom-based check or Will saving throw. He must abide by the new result (although if he has additional Harrow Points remaining, he can use them to attempt additional rerolls).

The only divine character in my party is a multiclassed paladin, so apart from the will saves, no one can really take advantage of these points. And only having the will rerolls seems kind of lackluster.

Any cool alternative ideas? I thought about allowing them to also reroll saves against death effects with them, is that balanced power-wise?


lukitux wrote:
Can anyone recommend any other campaign journals like this, as I’m somewhat new to this forum.

There is another Crimson Throne Journal by MrVergee.

Other amazing campaign journals everyone should read are
- Silverclawshift archives (3.5)
- Old Man Henderson (CoC)
- The tale of an Industrious Rogue (pf)

Those should be found easily via google, linking stuff on mobile is tedious.


So I just ran The First Session of book five, up until after the orc encounter, and I have trouble handling the brotherhood of bones.

Background:
When pitched the deal by Sial, the party didn't trust them and are not comfortable handing over a powerful relic to evil clerics. Laori then offered to just explore Scarwall together, not get in each other's way, and then figure out what to do, which they agreed to.

My problem: Too many bodies I combat. When running the Orc fight, I realized that playing all three Kuthites would extremely bog down combat.

I'm thinking of Sial (rival) telling them that if they don't agree to hand over the teeth, the Kuthites will only support them (maybe some spells etc.), but the PCs will do the fighting. So the clerics (I used witherose's cleric sial, the summoner seemed lackluster and ill-fitting) will only use support spells, and asyra will default to protecting them.

How did you all handle the Brotherhood in combat?


This is beyond awesome! Amazing work on those rules. I also love that you included tips for making your own units.

I have some ideas to throw into the mix:

As we now have DR, why not equip the Inquisitors generally with silver weapons? That would cement their playstyle as a monster hunting unit, and fit very well with the classes feel imo.
Oh, and maybe (if you didn't already) leave a link over at the "community created stuff" sticky thread, just in case this one gets lost over time.

To answer Helel13:
1. I'd let the players figure out whether they want to all play the whole faction together, or if they want to split it up, so every one has their own "subfaction"

2. You could add the threat of the enemy also bringing their "Big Guns" to bear, and focus on the need to take out those before they wreak havoc on the resistance.
Another option could be a time limit. Illeosa is the one enacting a plan, and the faster they stop her the better.


Olmac wrote:
I wouldn't worry about having Zena all stated out unless you expect combat, which would be silly of your party.

Completely agree. Thais should be a non-combat encounter imo.

Olmac wrote:


That being said...

** spoiler omitted **
Change the spells as you see fit.

Great work with the stat block! I feel she would likely have channel positive rather than negative though.


Sadly no build here, but couldn't you just subtract the stuff the template gives her?


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Hi guys, does anyone else feel it's a bit weird that only one of the PCs gets this powerful McGuffin, and the Rest of the Party gets nothing "special"? I don't want any of my players to feel overlooked, so I thought about designing flavorful items or boons for the rest of the party. Has anyone done something similar? Am I overlooking something? How did your party react to only one wielding the cool sword?


Watabou wrote:

So an Akhana Aeon seems like it fits the AP the best. Is it feasible for an Akhana Aeon to grant the time domain?

Do you mean the time patron theme? I think that would be alright, as all aeons are connected via the condition of all anyways. Not the best-fitting theme, but I think it's still a good option.

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