Roy Greenhilt

Fromper's page

Organized Play Member. 7,936 posts (9,591 including aliases). 4 reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 36 Organized Play characters. 5 aliases.


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Silver Crusade

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Thomas Seitz wrote:
As for Durkon, I'm sure playing with his kid takes up some time too.

Yup. The entire point of this interlude is that the rest of the team are killing time while waiting for the team clerics (note the plural) to say their goodbyes and gather their stuff.

Silver Crusade

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Durkon's busy elsewhere, and I can't imagine V getting drunk.

Silver Crusade

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I haven't read all 500+ posts in this thread to see if this has been addressed yet, but I have to ask: Why are these books so expensive?

136 pages for $37 (or $35 in the case of the next one, Lost Omen Character Guide) is nearly twice the price per page of what Paizo used to charge for hardcovers in 1st edition. Compare to 256 page books like Ultimate Combat or Advanced Race Guide, which are only $45 hardcover today, and I swear I remember them being only $40 when they were new.

And adventure paths used to be 100 pages for $20. I can understand that they need to raise prices once in a while, thus the 2e AP is now $25 per book, but it's still almost as many pages as this thing that sells for $37.

Whatever happened to monthly softcovers that were only $13-20? I don't have unlimited money to spend, so I pick and choose which books to buy based on content. I'm still on the fence about 2e, having only bought the Core Rulebook so far. But if every monthly book is going to be this stupidly expensive for so little content, then the books I pick and choose to buy aren't going to be from Paizo ever again.

Silver Crusade

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No. The GM was a toydarian, so he was immune.

Silver Crusade

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Saros Palanthios wrote:
What part of "carry someone off the battlefield" is not clear? Who is naked on the battlefield...?

Here's the exact quote from the book:

Core Rulebook, page 272 wrote:
You might need to know the Bulk of a creature, especially if you need to carry someone off the battlefield. The table that follows lists the typical Bulk of a creature based on its size, but the GM might adjust this number.

It doesn't say that's the bulk of a creature and its gear. Just the bulk of the creature. The chart that follows has small creatures listed as 3 bulk. How can someone wearing 4 bulk full plate, a 1 bulk heavy shield, sheathed weapons that might add another 1 or 2 bulk, and a 2 bulk adventurer's kit in their backpack be only 3 bulk?

As for who's naked on the battlefield, how about an ogre in a loincloth (once it drops its club), or a dragon, or any wild animal, or any of various other monsters that don't typically wear armor or carry much gear?

Saros Palanthios wrote:
Ask yourself, what's more likely: that Paizo's whole team of professional designers, writers, and editors are a bunch of incompetent fools who created a system that makes no sense... or that you made a mistake in your reading?

You haven't been playing Pathfinder long, have you? I'm not saying that Paizo's staff are incompetent. But mistakes happen. Sometimes major ones. Nobody's perfect.

When Starfinder first came out, the entire spaceship combat system just plain didn't work at high levels, because they got the math wrong, so an errata was necessary. When coming out with a 640 page rulebook for a whole new version of Pathfinder, something like doing the math on a small creature riding a medium mount to make sure the encumbrance works is a relatively trivial detail that I could certainly see them overlooking.

Saros Palanthios wrote:

The table on pg 272 lists the "typical" bulk of a creature, then qualifies it with "but the GM might adjust this number". Both of your examples are obvious cases where the GM should apply an adjustment for atypical circumstances.

You're grasping for a hard-and-fast, one-size-fits-all rule, but that's not how this game works. The whole PF2 system is built around the twin ideas that
1)it's pointless to try to predict and make rules for every possible corner case or combination of circumstances, but
2)most GMs and players are reasonable and can be trusted to apply the rules in a way that makes sense in the context of their narrative.

Except that "GM discretion" has always been a code word in Pathfinder for "this doesn't apply to Pathfinder Society". In PFS, the table GM is just a judge for that particular session. Whenever a Pathfinder book says "Your GM might allow this", the GM for the entire campaign is the one who has to make those calls, and for PFS, that campaign GM is the Paizo employee who manages the entire organized play campaign.

Silver Crusade

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Just tossing in my 2 copper's worth to say that I agree with the last three posts.

Silver Crusade

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Loreguard wrote:
Saros Palanthios wrote:
The Gleeful Grognard wrote:
Reality is, it is a non issue unless you run into people being willfully difficult. And they will cause issues regardless of the system.
LOL, this is the appropriate response to at least 3/4 of the threads on this forum...

I don't really agree that anyone trying to figure out how a particular rule that is written, is supposed to operate, should be listed as being Willfully Difficult.

I prefer to understand how something is supposed to work before I choose to handwave it if by my tables estimation the rule doesn't work for us. If I figure out it is a mess, I may well table it and rule something for the moment in the game so we can continue. But I won't hold it against a user if they want to know how something is supposed to work. (or hold it against them if they want to better understand how it is being home-brewed to work in a local game)

I know they tried to simplify things by basically treating all small and medium creatures basically all treat items and things as they are all the same size. But it creates some distinct issues for things like this.

Exactly. Plus, some of us play PFS, which is RAW only. If the rules say something doesn't work, we can't just hand wave it away in PFS. And as far as I can tell, the rules say that small creatures riding medium mounts don't work in 2e.

Silver Crusade

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So it sounds like there's nothing in the rules that clearly contradicts my original guess when I started this thread. So a small sized PC on a medium mount just isn't a playable build in Pathfinder Society.

Hopefully, someone at Paizo will change that answer some time soon.

Silver Crusade

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So champions can select a mount as their divine bond. And for a small sized PC champion, a medium sized pony should theoretically work. Or a goblin riding a medium sized wolf after level 6 (the wolf is apparently too small to carry the gobbo from levels 3-5).

The problem is that these medium sized creatures don't get an increase to their carrying capacity for having extra legs, the way they did in 1st edition. Thus, they can carry a small sized creature... but not a small sized creature in the heavy armor, shield, and weaponry that a champion is likely to be wearing. The champion is just too heavy for their mount to avoid being encumbered. And what kind of mount would they be with the clumsy condition and slower speed?

Am I reading this correctly, or is there some way around this that I'm missing?

Actually, now that I'm doing the math, even a large sized horse will be straining to carry a medium sized champion in full gear, though at least they can actually pull it off without being encumbered... barely. The encumbrance rules for non-humanoids just seem off to me.

Silver Crusade

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Ravingdork wrote:
Fromper wrote:
The reaction takes place when you would take damage, which is step 4 of assigning damage.

Geeze! How many steps does it possibly take to assign damage?

Seems to me like it should just be one. "You take 10 damage." Done.

See page 450 of the Core Rulebook.

Yup, breaking it into 4 steps is overkill. On the one hand, there seems to be a lot of that in PF2. On the other hand, I've seen all the rules debates in 1st edition that came from not having this level of detail in the rules, so I can see why they decided to err on the side of over-explaining everything.

Silver Crusade

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Also, per conversation in another thread about the timing of shield block. The reaction takes place when you would take damage, which is step 4 of assigning damage. So you already know how much damage it is before you decide if you want to use shield block.

This lets you do the math to see if it would permanently destroy your shield, and how much damage to the PC the block would prevent, before you decide if you want to do it. This may seem like metagaming, but it kinda makes sense in context. After all, your experienced adventurer will be able to instinctively gauge how hard an incoming blow looks.

Silver Crusade

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They're also the ancient Osirioni gods. They're largely forgotten, other than a handful in Osirion who remember them. I think it's implied that they stopped caring about Golarion and left for Earth thousands of years ago.

Silver Crusade

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Nevermind. I multiplied wrong.

Silver Crusade

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Colonel Kurtz wrote:
Yep, like the old saying, you can have it one of three ways: cheap, fast, or good.

Actually, you can have two out of three. This principle comes up a LOT in IT.

Silver Crusade

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Koujow wrote:

An Adventure Path actually set in Tian Xia. A bit of spoilers for Jade Regent (An 8 year old story at this point), but you spend the first few books just traveling to Tian Xia, then you kind of bounce around a few places like a tourist on holiday, then arrive at Not Japan in the last book just in time for the grand finale.

You know, with all the smaller adventures (mostly for PFS) in Tian Xia, it never occurred to me that there's never been an adventure path there.

I was just going to say that the continents of Casmaron and Sarusan have been woefully neglected in Paizo's adventures, so those would be appropriate locations for APs. But Tian Xia probably deserves a full AP first.

Silver Crusade

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Kringress wrote:

We be goblins, we be goblins 2, We before goblins.... and for those that play PFS look at season 10. Aww we just want to be friends and neighbors.

And "We Be Heroes?", this year's free RPG day adventure using playtest rules and a different set of goblins from the We Be Goblins adventures.

Of course, you do realize where the phrase "We Be Goblins" comes from, don't you? It's part of the original goblin song in Rise of the Runelords. The entire line is "We be goblins, you be food". So... not exactly friendly.

Silver Crusade

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Thebazilly wrote:

Tengu are the same size as humans, and their babies are probably similar. Therefore, a Tengu would need to lay an egg large enough to contain a human newborn.

According to Wikipedia, the average infant is 14-20" measured from head to heel and weighs 6-10lbs... which means the 16" long egg is probably required!

Wouldn't it make more sense to compare their birthing process to birds? These are 3 times the size of Ostrich eggs!

Envoy's Alliance

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A goblin enters, wearing armor, a shield, and a rapier sheathed at his hip. Oddly, he has what appears to be a keg strapped to his back, along with a standard adventurer's backpack.

He puts down his shield, then removes the keg and backpack. Grabbing a mug that was dangling from his belt, he fills it with ale from the keg, drinks it all in one long chug, and then refills it. He turns to look at you, as if noticing that other Pathfinders are present for the first time, raises his mug in your direction, and begins singing.

"Mighty Cayden, god of drunks,
Chose his champion - Me! I’m Grunk!
Wine and ale, I try ‘em all,
Drown myself in alcohol,
No need to read my god’s decree,
Everyone, everywhere must be free!
When evil slavers try their tricks,
I run ‘em through with pointy sticks!"

His song ended, Grunk laughs like a maniac for a few seconds, before taking a smaller drink from his mug. He then turns to look at you with his beady red eyes.

"So... who are you?"

Silver Crusade

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I haven't actually built a character yet. Still reading the Core Rulebook and learning the rules. But I'm pretty sure I've decided what my first character will be, for Pathfinder Society. I've even written his goblin song already:

Quote:

Mighty Cayden, god of drunks,

Chose his champion - Me! I’m Grunk!
Wine and ale, I try ‘em all,
Drown myself in alcohol,
No need to read my god’s decree,
Everyone, everywhere must be free!
When evil slavers try their tricks,
I run ‘em through with pointy sticks!

Silver Crusade

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I had the same question at first, but their example at the top page 20 answers this pretty clearly.

Quote:

Dwarves, for example, receive an ability

boost to their Constitution score and their Wisdom score,
as well as one free ability boost, which can be applied to
any score other than Constitution or Wisdom.

So it doesn't rule out charisma getting the free boost, which is the dwarven flaw attribute.

Silver Crusade

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Indagare wrote:
So of the seven classes that have Focus Spells, three mention where to find them. If you happened to start on one of the other four, you'd be left wondering where they are (yes, if you turned to 632 in the glossary and index you'd find them, but I don't think you should have to do that if it can be simply referenced in the relevant text).

As mentioned above, I started with the champion class. "Lay on Hands" isn't in the glossary and index, and it's referred to as a "devotion spell" in the class description, which is another term that's not in the index. I never thought to look up the term "focus spell" in the index.

Looking again now, the term "focus spell" is used in the description. But it's not a section heading, it's not capitalized, it's not italicized or anything else like that, so there's nothing to make it jump out as a rules term.

Like I said, I had to use ctl-f to go search the pdf for "Lay on Hands". If I only had the paper copy of the book, I never would have found it. That's a problem.

Silver Crusade

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I'd assume they'd be set free. It does look like the tide has turned here, and the good guys have won... for now. That means there's a plot twist coming, or else moving on to the next stage of the adventure.

Silver Crusade

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CorvusMask wrote:

In general though, I can't think of many straight examples of Paizo adventure assuming you attack a tribe of people without provocation just because you assume they are evil :P

Like, that is a D&D trope, but in Paizo's adventures you usually attack someone who has already attacked someone or they have big bloody "We are evil look at this mutilated body hanging over the wall" type signs :p

(I think closest examples might have been in ironfang somewhere or kingmaker? I can't really remember, but I recall it possibly happening in some wilderness adventure)

Playing Kingmaker now. Our party's "battle cry" (later became our national motto) is to wave and call out "HELLO, FRIEND!" as soon as we're close enough to see anything that might have language skills.

So far, we've made friends with four faeries, two tribes of kobolds, a tribe of mites, a boggard, a ghost, a werewolf, and a group of travelling gnomes. I think the gnomes were actually the shiftiest of the bunch, and we didn't quite trust them.

My character is a total nerd who spent years preparing for this expedition (elf with high int). He heard that there might be fae, kobolds, and/or mites in the area (info from the Kingmaker Player's Guide), so he made a point of learning the sylvan, draconic, and undercommon languages in advance, just to be prepared. So the fact that we could talk to all these critters, and tried to make peace, was something the printed adventure didn't anticipate in all cases, but we managed to do it.

Of course, we've killed plenty of non-friendlies along the way, as well, including other werewolves, boggards, and even humans.

Silver Crusade

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Ravingdork wrote:
Fromper wrote:
larsenex wrote:
Malk_Content wrote:


Goblins were never ubiquitously kill on sight.

Yes they were.

Always kill on site. Orcs, Goblins Gnolls >> Dead dead dead. I ran into a game where the DM tried to pull the 'what about the goblin women and children' and well we killed all of them. It was 'the greater good'

With monster descriptions like 'thoroughly evil and malicious, it makes genocide on them easy.

They are the mosquitoes of the humanoid races. Kill them, Kill them all.

Maybe that's how your group plays it, but Paizo has published adventures in 1st edition featuring social, non-combat encounters with all 3 of those races. Even if they're evil, that doesn't necessarily mean "kill on sight".
Which adventures? I own at least half of them and never came across anything like that. (Please reply in a spoiler for those who may yet want to play in said adventures.)

I mostly play Pathfinder Society, so most of my experience is with those adventures. Now you're going to make me look up the exact adventures, since I've played hundreds of them and don't always remember which is which by name off the top of my head.

Spoiler:

Goblins: Frostfur Captives, Rise of the Goblin Guild, Treason's Chains, and one other that I don't want to give away, because it really IS a spoiler that the goblins aren't behind all the evil in that one.
Gnolls: Between the Lines
Orcs: 4–24: Glories of the Past—Part II: The Price of Friendship - Had to spend some time looking this up to remember which scenario it was. The mission actually involves traveling into the orc nation Hold of Belkzen and visiting one of the orc cities. So you have to negotiate with orcs to get what you were sent for.

Ironically, I've mentioned several times that you just don't see orcs very much in Pathfinder adventures. That last one I named where you negotiate with them is actually the only PFS adventure I can think of that features full blooded orcs (as opposed to the over-common half-orcs). I remember back in 1st edition D&D and AD&D, orcs were THE default humanoid enemy, but goblins and kobolds fill that role in Pathfinder.

Silver Crusade

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I'll just add a "me too" to the requests above for a single page, easily downloadable version. The need to search the whole document at once, and to easily store it for offline access, are both absolutely essential.

As with Balkin, above, I'm not entirely enthusiastic about the new version. Paizo is going to have to work pretty hard to get me into 2e, and fumbling this roll out on day one isn't a good start. Of course, I've been playing PF long enough to know that fumbling rollouts during Gen Con is an annual tradition with Paizo, but you'd think they'd learn from all those mistakes eventually.

In this case, a blog post and permanent link here on Paizo's site, pointing us to the third party web site for the Guide could have been put up a month or two ago, even before the Guide was ready on that web site. Having the link up in advance, pointing to a page that says "Watch this space" for a month before the Guide was ready, would have prevented a LOT of confusion over the last week.

Silver Crusade

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Pun-Pun wrote:
Meh the star stone test isn't THAT hard.

If there's reading involved, then no goblin will EVER succeed.

Silver Crusade

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Just taking a quick glance at these, and noticed Seelah has a typo. I'm pretty sure her paladin code should have the word "never" before "abandon a companion in need".

Silver Crusade

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Divine Diversion

This was Loki's idea. You can just tell.

Silver Crusade

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Sharoth wrote:
The bard jokes struck a chord with me.

Really? I thought cracking jokes at a time like this was tone deaf.

Silver Crusade

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Speaking of clerics, where's Hilgya?

Silver Crusade

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Finally getting around to GMing this on Sunday, after playing it twice in the past. Thanks for all the tips in this thread, and especially the Jade Ogre handouts and Yue Xin words of "wisdom" on the GM prep site.

TL,DR: Dot.

Silver Crusade

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Fromper wrote:
Also, from all the past tense stuff dealing with Durkon's family in his memories, I'd been expecting them to all be dead by now. But given the young priest recognizing the last name and knowing Durkon's mother, I suspect she's alive and probably about to meet the Order.

So apparently, I made a correct prediction a year and a half ago.

Silver Crusade

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TriOmegaZero wrote:
They gotta find the diamonds for her. Just cause Hilgya has them doesn't mean she will share.

It's not just diamonds they need - it's also spells. Durkon doesn't have any spells prepared, and Hilgya already cast Raise Dead twice today. How many do you think she prepared?

Silver Crusade

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He's there. I think he's actually fully transitioned to neutral at this point.

Silver Crusade

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Muse. wrote:

- this story is a little old, being from LG days, but still good...

Party is looking at a long dark tunnel that they know leads to a den of thieves. Surely there are traps, and they don't really have anyone to find them, let along disable them. But then one of the PCs says "Hay! I've got a Bag of Tricks!" So he pulls a random animal out of it and (dice rattle) it's a cat (house cat).
"Search Phlahphie!" and what do you know - it get's 10 feet in and SPLAT! and that still leaves a bunch of tunnel to get down. So they draw another. (This was in 3.5 days, so you could draw creatures 5 times a week.)
Rattle dice and it's another cat. 10 MORE feet and splat. Again, and ANOTHER cat.
"Search Phlahphie!" and you guessed it - it get's 10 more feet in and SPLAT!
The dice rattle and guess what?, another cat.

At which point the judge points out the cat stops and looks real accusingly back at the player. "It looks like the same cat."

Guess what the player did? yeah, sent it down the hall. After all, "It's got nine lives!"

That reminds me of GMing a PFS adventure a few years ago, and one of the players had a wand of Summon Monster 1. Why spend 2 prestige on a wand that takes a round to summon a critter that only lasts 1 round? Well, they went into the sewers, and kept sending ponies ahead to scout for traps as they approached the area known to be a monster lair. It worked twice - once to set off a trap, and once to set off the ambush so no PCs took the hit in the surprise round.

This led to many jokes about where the ponies come from, and where do they go after they're done. Is there some pony dimension somewhere, where the ponies keep disappearing, then reappearing dead 6 seconds later, while the other ponies watch in horror, waiting their turn?

Sir Loin - Knightspawn wrote:

Ok, this is an old gimmick (for us) but we pulled it on a newer Judge just recently...

We sometimes run a bluff that we are an Aspis Team posing as a Pathfinder team - which explained why we had a few Wayfinders with us, and no Aspis badges.

We explain to the "Aspis friendly NPCs" - "It would blow our cover to be carrying our Badges - so we left them back at Base.

"And we don't have enough Wayfinders to go around, so we are making do with the ones we could get ahold of. Now, we need you to help with the cover story... remember, a gang of Pathfinders came to talk to you..." {wink-wink} "...totally NOT an Aspis team."

The funniest part is that one of the players was really tired and kept getting mixed up and saying she was a Pathfinder and then NPCs would just say something like "Yeah, I got that"...

Yeah - we were Pathfinders, claiming to be Aspis agents posing as Pathfinders..."see, we have a couple Wayfinders..."

Edit: Couldn't you just see this table with a BDF at it saying: "well, really we ARE Pathfinders... aren't we?" and the rest of us just smiling and letting the NPCs think "she's a little slow sometimes..."

Again, I'm reminded of one of my own adventures. I was a PC for this one, but we were on a mission to infiltrate a group of Hellknights, and one of the other PCs was an actual Hellknight (prestige class). Since the Hellknight PC had 7 int and 7 wis, we decided to just not tell her that we were undercover. The player just "played dumb" (as she always does with that PC) while the rest of us did the investigating, under the cover of her character's authority.

Silver Crusade

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thejeff wrote:


And on the strip itself: The gods don't know about the world in the rift. Oh boy.

Ummm... yeah. That would seem to be the most important part in all this. That and Belkar finally getting the acknowledgment he deserves for being the only smart one on the team.

Silver Crusade

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Enough Diamonds Already

Ok, that was perfect.

Silver Crusade

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So does this mean Durkon took the Leadership feat?

Silver Crusade

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The Raven Black wrote:
MageHunter wrote:

As I recall, Giant in the Playground was a phrase used in Babylon 5, which Burlew is a big fan of.

A large plot arc was two different cosmic level species fighting each other with human collateral damage.

Who are you ?

What do you want ?

;-)

"I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I would look up into your lifeless eyes and wave... like this."

My favorite character on that show.

Silver Crusade

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The barbarians rejecting magic altogether strikes me as a dig at 1st edition Unearthed Arcana.

Silver Crusade

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"If you fall from grace, do you take 20d6 falling damage?"

Silver Crusade

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Andostre wrote:
Thor motivates his followers like he battles his enemies: with a hammer.

I thought that last panel was awesome. Durkon's god is showing complete faith in him. It's a perfect role reversal in that regard.

But plot wise, this is exactly where we all knew this was going once we found out about the god color thing. Durkon has to make peace with Redcloak. Probably behind Xykon's back.

But first Durkon has to be resurrected. Not sure if Thor can do that without a mortal casting the spell, which is where Hilgya comes in. But she'll have to be convinced to actually do it. Which is probably where Loki comes in.

And I am kind of wondering what the rest of the Order has been doing while Durkon is busy here.

Silver Crusade

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Vidmaster7 wrote:
Ah yes orange the Egyptian (look-alike) gods.

Well, we've got the Egyptian gods in Pathfinder, so why not? I actually have an inquisitor of Isis in Pathfinder Society.

Silver Crusade

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I think my favorite thing is the pizza slicer. The piece of pizza has what appears to just be a sword. But its enemy has a specialized weapon just for cutting pizza.

There's just so much silliness in this bleak story.

Silver Crusade

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Better Left in the Past

Silver Crusade

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I love all the background thoughts. And the fact that the big panel with the thoughts surrounding colors roughly represents the alignment scale.

Silver Crusade

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The part I still don't understand is why Paizo ever agreed to partner with Ninja Division in the first place.

When the Kickstarter was first announced, I hadn't heard of Ninja Division, so I looked them up on Google. It took me all of 2 minutes to discover that the one thing they're best known for is disappointing their Kickstarter backers. So I intentionally avoided the Kickstarter.

If I could find that out so easily, why didn't Paizo do at least that much research before making such an obvious mistake?

Silver Crusade

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Yes, after 6 or 7 years since we last saw it, I did forget about it.

After recent events, I keep saying I need to go back and reread all of OOTS from the beginning. This just drives that home.

Silver Crusade

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"...Xykon has a... ?"

My reaction was exactly the same as Durkon's.

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