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Sovereign Court

So would a "pirate style" or "fencing style" or like say... "Brigand style" have hefty prereqs that would be easier for swashies to meet? Dex 13, weapon finesse, dazzling swordplay for instance?

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How many AoO could as swashy feasibly provoke from one enemy per turn?

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Some things I've noticed playing swashbuckler at first and second level.
Stats are:
Str -13
Dex-18
Con-12
Int-8
Wis-12
Cha-14

1: I feel I've been Very lucky so far with fort saves. The GM is converting the old Temple of Elemental Evil for us (as we have always wanted to play it). Many of the creatures we've fought so far have had some kind of poisoned attack or other fort save ability, and I currently have very bad fort and will saves, (although my will saves are slightly better due to having taken the latent scion trait). If charmed life cost panache instead of an action this would be better. In addition I think if it Scaled a little better I wouldn't feel forced into dumping int. Currently the warpriest in our party deals far more damage, has higher saves, and higher ac.

2: I'm not seeing a problem with the way opportune parry/reposte works currently. I've had good luck with it, admittedly, but in my experience panache comes back fairly often with the good threat range on my weapon and a little focus on the nooks from time to time.

3: 1st and second level my damage is very much a problem. Dealing 2-3 damage on a low roll is just pathetic for a front line Melee class, but without pumping strength at the expense of dex and cha I can see no way around it.

4: I enjoy derring-do quite a bit. The bonus helps me accomplish things that I couldn't otherwise do, and I feel that it allows me to try checks I wouldn't normally attempt. I feel as if perhaps it allowed you to use charisma mod in place of the typical modifier for a given ability or set of abilities, it would make it that much easier to alleviate some of the reliance on strength.

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C all day long. C to all three.

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Stephen Radney-MacFarland wrote:
Okay...for all you Dex damage junkies, we are looking into options that allow you to do it, but they will probably be more like Dervish Dance -- that is options that you feat into.

You sound so resigned. That must have been one hell of a meeting.

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Or the ability to use derring do as part of a charge to change direction or move over obstacles/difficult terrain.

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At fifth level a swashbuckler who uses the derring-do deed to move though a threatened square without provoking AoO's should be able to make an AoO if she succeeds by five or more. At tenth level she should be able to combine this ability with other checks so long as the check is made to allow some kind of altered movement(chandelier?).

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If derring-do let me make one additional attack during a move or as part of its check somehow, I'd be willing to play this class in an AP. Something like the attacking from a chandelier that was described before. To me it seems a swashbuckler should be able to attack while log rolling or swinging from a rope, or suspended from rafters or while entangled/tied up. The kinds of absurd things they are known for. I'd take a hit to damage for that.

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One more note on that ability I recommended. If it did replace stat to damage then it would make dex and cha the only logical stats to pump since dex increases your hit, and charisma gives you panache to spend to increase your damage.

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And precise strike would work the same(or similarly sorry I don't have much time to crunch numbers) effectively rendering power attack a moot point and making dex an undumpable stat. With that in mind decent to good strength would become little more than icing.

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Err, sorry. I'm at work and on my phone. No it would not replace stat to damage but it wouldn't stack with power attack. That way you could begin play with a decent strength and high dex and would be rewarded for that dex down the road while baing able to pump other stats(con and cha perhaps?) that would help you increase panache or defenses or skills as you see fit. Wouldn't really ever reward a dex higher than 20 though.

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Scale it like power attack with FF then. Make it a deed, +2 damage plus an additional 2 every four levels. Total bonus cannot exceed double dex mod, and only works when you have at least one point of panache. Expend a point to increase it by 50%

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Maybe hand in your badge should be an ability at around 10th level then? After that, you know things bout to be crazy. It'd be so hard not to play as Axel Foley.

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Stevens been on here a bunch so I suppose this would be the place for me to beg for archetypes.

This is just me imagining a perfect world but... how bout a private eye archetype? Kind of Noir inspired? Give em limited access to grit and firearm proficiency at the expense of some extracts or investigator talents? Oh, how bout an ability that lets them make a disguise check to blend into any crowded area, so long as they wear a hat and long coat? They should get black market connections as a bonus talent, and could replace studied combat with reflective combat, where they kind of stop and have a moment of reflection beforehand contemplating the nature of the person they're fighting. It could work identically except it should pull off of charisma.

Beat Cop would be a good one too, you have to be Lawful, aaand you have to work for some organization or another as a watchman or guard. It'd be great for city campaigns. You get issued a certain amount of supplies,and get paid a steady income. In order to do some investigating in town you just have to find time in between or else risk getting caught neglecting your duties. If you are fired you have to hand over your badge and any equipment they've supplied you with (should probably scale, as if you get promotions when you level or something).

Lastly I think there should be a grizzled old detective archetype. Not as good in combat, you would lose a bit of your studied combat if not all of it, but instead gain the ability to boost your allies skills and attacks. "Lemme tell ya kid, I been walking these streets a long time." There could be abilities you can use in studied combat that let you demoralize opponents, or buff allies. SA names would be the coolest aspect to me. "Loose cannon," or "your father was a good cop," both seem like obvious choices.

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If they want to keep charmed life X/day they should have it's bonus double at ten or eleven.

I know it's a lot to ask not to get transported to a random plane the first time I see a prismatic spray, but mayhap you could give me a weeeeee little chance.

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Googleshng wrote:

That's 3.X power attack you're thinking of, which was a very nasty affair that rewarded some weird metagaming and didn't provide much bonus. Pathfinder power attack is -X to hit, +2X to damage, where X starts at 1 and increases at each multiple of 4 BAB. So, essentially, you're dropping to 3/4 BAB and trading each lost point of accuracy for 2 damage. Which ain't broke, so no need to fix it.

That said, it works just fine as a feat. Not everyone wants it, it's weird to link it in with panache. Slap it with the same restrictions as Precise Strike, maybe even require the feature before you can take it, and call it a day I say.

Speaking of swapping out deeds though, would anyone be sad to lose targeted strike? Either to get pommel swipe back or something else? Gunslingers get it because you can't use combat maneuvers from across the room, but when you're already standing right there there's just no point in even considering it.

I knew it functioned like 3.5, which was intentional so as to distance itself from the actual power attack feat and offer a stricter risk/reward system. Anyway it just seemed like a neat alternative to asking for direct dex to damage since we have little reason to believe that is coming.

As for targeted strike I don't really want it either. Maybe if it was pushed back to a later level and the effects improved a bit, but even then I think I'd rather see some nifty movement deeds come into play. A deed that lets you charge over difficult terrain (diving over tables and chairs?) or a deed that lets you provoke during a move that normally wouldn't in order to gain an attack that goes off first.

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What if there was an ability baked in that worked like a kind of... power attack-y dex ability.

Angled Strikes: At X level, as long as she has at least one panache point, the swashbuckler gains the ability to circumvent her opponents defenses more thoroughly, striking toward very hard to reach places. As a free action a swashbuckler with this deed may sacrifice up to her Dexterity modifier from her attack roll in order to gain an equal bonus on her damage rolls for one round.

As a swift action, a swashbuckler can expend one panache point to double this bonus for 1 round. This Deed's cost cannot be reduced by any ability that reduces a deed's panache cost (such as the signature deed feat).

Of course it doesn't necessarily need to be a deed, but that's the most obvious choice. Perhaps put it at seventh and stick targeted strike at 11th?

Just an idea.

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Park dex to damage a few levels in and make it only function with one handed piercing weapons (or others with the grace feat), add it to str to damage rather than replacing strength to damage and make precise strike cost a panache and only effect a single attack.

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You could also expand it to include other priestly weapons in general. Adding bludgeoning weapons to the list would help some.

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I think restricting them to their favored weapon is a great flavor option so long as there is something tailored to each weapon type. Like being able to make star knives returning and/or spell storing somehow.

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Weapon training in their deities favored weapon? Has this been talked about.

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pH unbalanced wrote:

First of all, I think it speaks very well of the Investigator class as written that the biggest argument about it is whether or not Poison Use fits thematically.

MMCJawa wrote:
I actually think the best way of dealing with this might be just offering some new poisons that can function as sedatives, truth serums, etc.

We actually have these. Blue Whinnis is a sedative. Truth serum = Wisdom damage (ie lowering Will saves). That's what poisons *are* in Pathfinder.

Poison Use is several things. It is not accidentally poisoning yourself when using a poisoned weapon. It is also not accidentally poisoning yourself when applying that poison -- either to the weapon *or* to its delivery device. So if you are poisoning food, pouring chloroform onto a handkerchief, or setting a poison needle trap, the GM is perfectly within their rights to have you make a skill check where a roll of '1' means that you have poisoned yourself.

And Poison Use is also, in PFS, the ability to acquire Poison in the first place.

I maintain that Spies and Secret Agents (and evil Masterminds such as Moriarty) are also fully covered by the flavor of the Investigator, so that Poison Use fits perfectly well thematically. But YMMV.

Here Here!

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As an aside Calybos1, Akumas ultimate attack is known as the raging demon. He basically charges forward in this cool kind of blurred looking way, before unleashing a torrent of attacks simultaneously on his opponent. You know what, I'm building this character when I get home for funzies.

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Calybos1 wrote:
Flamdring wrote:
Calybos1 wrote:

Check. Who's Akuma? If he wasn't in Lord of the Rings or Doctor Who, I've never heard of him.

"Must not be... upset. Must not nerd rage." In case you aren't joking though, just google image that s!!&. One of the dopest video game villains of all time.

Nope, wasn't joking. He's apparently some video-game character I'd never heard of before now.

And really, a picture doesn't help me get the character concept behind it; is there any info on his purpose/mission, persona, function on a team, etc.? I'm still having trouble getting a handle on the RP aspects of the Bloodrager class.

Oh well, he's a masterfull martial artist with other powers similar to those in his series... i.e. Projecting fireballs from his hands moving at unnatural speeds and so on. However while the other characters utilize these powers (called the "hado") through years of experience and supernatural focus, he's mastered a method (often called the "dark hado") which is more inherent in its use. In other words he surrenders his mind to the power rather than having to bring it forth manually. The side effect of this is that the power manifests as an otherworldly all consuming rage. As for his story and goals well, he wants simply to be the strongest person alive and strives to battle ever stronger opponents as a means to prove it. Now swap out his predeliction for hand to hand combat with martial weapons and call his powers arcane instead of "ki," and I think it really works. There are other ways you could do it but it's what immediately came to mind for me. Apologies for the misunderstanding lol.

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If the focus is going to be put on the deities favored weapon then how about allowing them to spend channels As a swift action to make an additional attack at their highest base attack bonus, so long as they are wielding their deities favored weapon?

Barring that I'd say add a constant effect to each blessing that ties in to the favored weapon. Something like, "warpriests with this blessing are treated as having the channel smite feat as long as they are wielding their deities favored weapon." Other feat options could include power attack or two weapon fighting. These feats would count towards prerequisites but again only while wielding the weapon. Effectively giving them a leg up in combat.

Of course we could also tie the weapon to an advancement track similar to the bladebound magus archetype. Treating any favored weapon as somewhat magical (perhaps with an enhancement bonus just a little lower than what it would normally be at their level) and adding an interesting ability to it that functions differently based on the type of weapon. An example could be, "warpriests whose favored weapon is a light one handed Melee weapon may, upon reaching X level, use it to parry incoming attacks, as the duelist ability."

Just brainstorming, I really want this class to be a viable option when play testing is over.

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I would just add, "can expend 1 or more channel attempts as part of casting his spells. Doing so reduces the casting time of the spell by one step." ex. Summon monster 1: 1 round action + 1 channel = full round action or +2 channels = standard action or +3 channels = move action or +4 channels = swift action. Add in some errata like "the warpriest can effect spell up to the highest level he can cast -1. In addition spells affected this way cannot be modified by meta magic feats and this ability cannot be used to cast more than one spell per round."

This is just a quick mock-up as I'm at work and typing on my phone.

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Calybos1 wrote:
Flamdring wrote:
Calybos1 wrote:

I'm just lost on this one. Yes, it looks very powerful and combat-effective, if you like that sort of thing.

But... what IS a Bloodrager? What's the underlying concept? How do you roleplay a guy who's a raving, howling, murderous swirl of death in combat...

...who occasionally stops to toss off a few spells?

Seriously. Not getting it. The barbarian is the ultimate in pure physical focus--and he's casting spells in the middle of a fight? What's up with that?

Think... Akuma, except magic instead of ki and a huge sword.

Check. Who's Akuma? If he wasn't in Lord of the Rings or Doctor Who, I've never heard of him.

"Must not be... upset. Must not nerd rage." In case you aren't joking though, just google image that s+~@. One of the dopest video game villains of all time.

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1 person marked this as a favorite.
Calybos1 wrote:

I'm just lost on this one. Yes, it looks very powerful and combat-effective, if you like that sort of thing.

But... what IS a Bloodrager? What's the underlying concept? How do you roleplay a guy who's a raving, howling, murderous swirl of death in combat...

...who occasionally stops to toss off a few spells?

Seriously. Not getting it. The barbarian is the ultimate in pure physical focus--and he's casting spells in the middle of a fight? What's up with that?

Think... Akuma, except magic instead of ki and a huge sword.