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How many licks Bites does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop?
So as not to derail another thread, I want to know how many bites we can get from a single character just a single natural attack.
I am spoilering a lot for ease of reading and I recommend Spoilering any math or full builds in responses.
Rule Details:
1) This is not a hydra/multiple heads optimization. If you do polymorph/etc into a form with multiple bites (from multiple sets of jaws) we're counting that as 1.
2) I don't care how you get your bite (polymorph, toothy, ring of rat fangs, etc) just make a note of the source
3) The character doesn't have to be good, I'm just looking for max number of bites
4) Target is a Tootsie Pop, assume you automatically hit, that any combat maneuver automatically succeeds, and the Tootsie Pop fails all saves.
5) If you have a source of retributive bites that's fine, but Tootsie has a Dex of 10 and does not have Combat Reflexes. It will not (willingly) make attacks against you on its turn. If you have a method of forcing Tootsie to make additional attacks (like possession by a creature with Combat Reflexes) it will attack once on its turn and you will still need to increase Tootsie Dex if you want it to make multiple AoOs.
6) If Tootsie does attack you, assume it hits or misses (which ever is more advantageous for you) and does 1 damage (or 100 whichever is more advantageous)
7) Companions are fine, but their bites are tracked separately. If you have a situation like Outflank where we have to calculate the companion's crit chance use the following: If it only Crits on a 20, you need 20 attacks before you can count as triggering the AoO. 19-20: every 10 attacks. 18-20: crit on 7th, 13th and 20th. 17-20: every 5th, etc. If you are passing crit via Butterfly's Sting, the attack that triggered cannot also proc Outflank.
8) I was going to disallow Constrict, but on review count any number of constricts as simply an extra bite. IE, your bite has grab and you constrict 5 times, it counts as +1, not +5.
9) You can take as much prep time as you want, but I am looking for a single round for # of bites.
10) Level 20, 20 point buy, say a million gold if needed. Don't just hire a billion commoners for lulz, its about what the character can do, not the money.
11) If you have an infinite loop of attacks, we're counting that as +1 not +∞
2) I don't care how you get your bite (polymorph, toothy, ring of rat fangs, etc) just make a note of the source
3) The character doesn't have to be good, I'm just looking for max number of bites
4) Target is a Tootsie Pop, assume you automatically hit, that any combat maneuver automatically succeeds, and the Tootsie Pop fails all saves.
5) If you have a source of retributive bites that's fine, but Tootsie has a Dex of 10 and does not have Combat Reflexes. It will not (willingly) make attacks against you on its turn. If you have a method of forcing Tootsie to make additional attacks (like possession by a creature with Combat Reflexes) it will attack once on its turn and you will still need to increase Tootsie Dex if you want it to make multiple AoOs.
6) If Tootsie does attack you, assume it hits or misses (which ever is more advantageous for you) and does 1 damage (or 100 whichever is more advantageous)
7) Companions are fine, but their bites are tracked separately. If you have a situation like Outflank where we have to calculate the companion's crit chance use the following: If it only Crits on a 20, you need 20 attacks before you can count as triggering the AoO. 19-20: every 10 attacks. 18-20: crit on 7th, 13th and 20th. 17-20: every 5th, etc. If you are passing crit via Butterfly's Sting, the attack that triggered cannot also proc Outflank.
8) I was going to disallow Constrict, but on review count any number of constricts as simply an extra bite. IE, your bite has grab and you constrict 5 times, it counts as +1, not +5.
9) You can take as much prep time as you want, but I am looking for a single round for # of bites.
10) Level 20, 20 point buy, say a million gold if needed. Don't just hire a billion commoners for lulz, its about what the character can do, not the money.
11) If you have an infinite loop of attacks, we're counting that as +1 not +∞
I am currently thinking something like:
# of Bites: 13:
Character Bites: 13
Familiar Bites: 12
Declare Spellcombat, cast Shocking Grasp
Bite(1st): Deliver Shocking Grasp
Declare Full Attack (not flurry)
Bite(2nd): base from Full Attack
Bite(3rd): Haste
Main Weapon Attack: Trip Attempt with Greater Trip
Bite(4th): AoO from Greater Trip
-Familiar(1st) takes AoO from Paired Opportunist
Bite(5th): AoO from Fortuitous Amulet of Mighty Fists
-Familiar(2nd) takes AoO from Paired Opportunist
Familiar(3rd) takes AoO from Greater Trip
-Bite(6th): AoO from Paired Opportunist
Iterative Weapon Attack(1): nonlethal damage to trigger...
Free Action: Enforcer
Bite(7th): Swift action Hurtful (and declare Stunning Fist via Feral Combat Training)
Bite(8th & 9th): Medusa's Wrath (via Feral Combat Training)
Bite(10th): Potion of Contingent Action to bite when Medusa's Wrath triggers
Familiar(4th): Outflank AoO from 10 attacks hitting at 19-20 crit rate
-Bite(11th): AoO from Paired Opportunist
Iterative Weapon Attack(2): throw dagger drawn by quickdraw provoking AoO
Bite(12th): Snake Fang (via Feral Combat Training)
Familiar(5th): takes AoO from Paired Opportunist
Familiar Full Attack
Familiar(6th): takes its normal bite attack during its turn
Familiar(7th): Haste attack
Familiar(8th & 9th): Medusa's Wrath via Feral Combat Training
Familiar(10th): Potion of Contingent Action to bite when Medusa's Wrath triggers
Bite(13th): Outflank AoO from 10 of familiar's attacks hitting at 19-20 crit rate
Familiar(11th): AoO from Paired Opportunist
Familiar Free Action: Enforcer from Merciful Amulet of Mighty Fists
Familiar(12th): Swift Action Hurtful
Familiar Bites: 12
Declare Spellcombat, cast Shocking Grasp
Bite(1st): Deliver Shocking Grasp
Declare Full Attack (not flurry)
Bite(2nd): base from Full Attack
Bite(3rd): Haste
Main Weapon Attack: Trip Attempt with Greater Trip
Bite(4th): AoO from Greater Trip
-Familiar(1st) takes AoO from Paired Opportunist
Bite(5th): AoO from Fortuitous Amulet of Mighty Fists
-Familiar(2nd) takes AoO from Paired Opportunist
Familiar(3rd) takes AoO from Greater Trip
-Bite(6th): AoO from Paired Opportunist
Iterative Weapon Attack(1): nonlethal damage to trigger...
Free Action: Enforcer
Bite(7th): Swift action Hurtful (and declare Stunning Fist via Feral Combat Training)
Bite(8th & 9th): Medusa's Wrath (via Feral Combat Training)
Bite(10th): Potion of Contingent Action to bite when Medusa's Wrath triggers
Familiar(4th): Outflank AoO from 10 attacks hitting at 19-20 crit rate
-Bite(11th): AoO from Paired Opportunist
Iterative Weapon Attack(2): throw dagger drawn by quickdraw provoking AoO
Bite(12th): Snake Fang (via Feral Combat Training)
Familiar(5th): takes AoO from Paired Opportunist
Familiar Full Attack
Familiar(6th): takes its normal bite attack during its turn
Familiar(7th): Haste attack
Familiar(8th & 9th): Medusa's Wrath via Feral Combat Training
Familiar(10th): Potion of Contingent Action to bite when Medusa's Wrath triggers
Bite(13th): Outflank AoO from 10 of familiar's attacks hitting at 19-20 crit rate
Familiar(11th): AoO from Paired Opportunist
Familiar Free Action: Enforcer from Merciful Amulet of Mighty Fists
Familiar(12th): Swift Action Hurtful
Example Build:
Magus 3, Eldritch Guardian Fighter 7, UMonk 10
Magus 3 for Natural Spell Combat (to build off the previous thread)
Eldritch Guardian Fighter to share combat feats with Familiar (Paired Opportunists, Outflank, Enforcer, Medusa's Wrath, Hurtful, Feral Combat Training, Combat Reflexes, Improved Crit: Bite)
Mauler Familiar so it threatens without Evolved Familiar(Reach)
Bite from Ring of Rat Fangs
Wis 13, Int 13, Str 13, rest into Dex for AoO
Feats not in optimized order, but prereqs should be all there.
UMonk to ignore prereqs on Medusa's Wrath:
Bonus feats: Stunning Fist, 1st Combat Reflexes, 2nd Dodge, 6th Improved Trip, 10th Medusa's Wrath
Fighter bonus feats: 4th Quickdraw, 6th Feral Combat Training(Bite)
Human bonus feat: Combat Expertise
Normal Feats: 1st Paired Opportunist, 3rd Power Attack, 5th Hurtful, 7th Outflank, 9th Enforcer, 11th Snake Style, 13th Snake Sidewind, 15th Snake Fang, 17th Greater Trip, 19th Improved Critical(Bite)
Gear:
Weapon Focus(Bite) from slotting a Opalescent White Pyramid Ioun Stone into a wayfinder
A weapon used to trip, say light flail
A nonlethal Weapon, say a sap
A thrown weapon, say a dagger
Fortuitous Amulet of Mighty Fists
Familiar has Merciful Amulet of Mighty Fists
Belt of Dex +6 just in case
Belt of Dex +6 for familiar just in case
Scroll of Haste
2 Potions of Contingent Action
Ring of Rat Fangs
Since its a Mauler familiar, lets throw on 5 wishes to increase its Dex by +5 since it does take 6 AoOs
Magus 3 for Natural Spell Combat (to build off the previous thread)
Eldritch Guardian Fighter to share combat feats with Familiar (Paired Opportunists, Outflank, Enforcer, Medusa's Wrath, Hurtful, Feral Combat Training, Combat Reflexes, Improved Crit: Bite)
Mauler Familiar so it threatens without Evolved Familiar(Reach)
Bite from Ring of Rat Fangs
Wis 13, Int 13, Str 13, rest into Dex for AoO
Feats not in optimized order, but prereqs should be all there.
UMonk to ignore prereqs on Medusa's Wrath:
Bonus feats: Stunning Fist, 1st Combat Reflexes, 2nd Dodge, 6th Improved Trip, 10th Medusa's Wrath
Fighter bonus feats: 4th Quickdraw, 6th Feral Combat Training(Bite)
Human bonus feat: Combat Expertise
Normal Feats: 1st Paired Opportunist, 3rd Power Attack, 5th Hurtful, 7th Outflank, 9th Enforcer, 11th Snake Style, 13th Snake Sidewind, 15th Snake Fang, 17th Greater Trip, 19th Improved Critical(Bite)
Gear:
Weapon Focus(Bite) from slotting a Opalescent White Pyramid Ioun Stone into a wayfinder
A weapon used to trip, say light flail
A nonlethal Weapon, say a sap
A thrown weapon, say a dagger
Fortuitous Amulet of Mighty Fists
Familiar has Merciful Amulet of Mighty Fists
Belt of Dex +6 just in case
Belt of Dex +6 for familiar just in case
Scroll of Haste
2 Potions of Contingent Action
Ring of Rat Fangs
Since its a Mauler familiar, lets throw on 5 wishes to increase its Dex by +5 since it does take 6 AoOs
I didn't use Constrict, or Possession/etc forcing more attacks for retribution so there is probably some room for improvement. And probably a few things I forgot. Like maybe that shield that can bite (though would have trouble mixing it in with magus)... on reviewing the shield, you can't dual wield them for this and I am limiting it to trigger only once per round (since its a free action 3/day that basically full attacks). Otherwise, because its poorly worded, you get a character with 4+ arms and trigger each 3 times in the same round with full BAB = 48 bites and this becomes a 'how many arms can I get' discussion.