Erian El'ranelen's page

Yeah, definitely read through the Guide. Heck, there's even a place in...Sevenarches I think it is...that has a "shadow forest" where trees no one can see cast shadows. For anyone that likes the Grimm's Fairy Tales/fey (of the possibly dangerous, always mysterious, not cutesy little Tinker Bells), the River Kingdoms is just eat up with potential.

Of all the nations in the Inner Sea region, I'd actually rank the River Kingdoms as one of the most likely to have "odd" terrain given all this. The River Kingdoms are rife with connections to the First World (a read through the Kingmaker AP will help) compared to most of the Inner Sea. So, if at some point introducing exotic terrain comes around, it can actually be very easily explained with First World rifts. These could even appear for a time and then go away, appear in random locations or at random times in the same place, etc. There's a crazy naga/hag/aboleth alliance near to the PFO area that could even introduce underwater action (given some flooded caves to expand from the simply river area).

I see some of my fellow Keepers have already brought greetings from the Keepers of the Circle, but I wanted to extend a formal invitation as well. Please feel free to visit our new website (http://keepersofthecircle.guildlaunch.com/). We have a Chancery established for discussions with other guilds when necessary and the site supports Ambassador roles if you wish to establish formal ties.

Squaring the Circle,

Erian El'ranelen, Guardian of Gold

I bring greetings from the Keepers of the Circle. As I understand it, several of our members have already had separate discussions, but I wanted to post a formal welcome to visit our new website (http://keepersofthecircle.guildlaunch.com/). We have a Chancery established for discussions with other guilds when necessary and Deepforge Company's original post has been moved to start your own Chancery entry. We look forward to continued trade and mutual support.

Squaring the Circle,

Erian El'ranelen, Guardian of Gold

I bring greetings from the Keepers of the Circle. As we are already on friendly terms with TSV and have mercantile interests as well, I suspect we'll have numerous interactions with your members. KE is welcome to visit our new website (http://keepersofthecircle.guildlaunch.com/) and we have a Chancery established for discussions with other guilds when necessary. If an Ambassador role becomes appropriate, our site has options to establish this role.

Squaring the Circle,

Erian El'ranelen, Guardian of Gold

Given our previous dialogue on establishing mutually beneficial contracts, I wanted to give specific notice to The UNC that our group, the Keepers of the Circle, has moved to a new site (http://keepersofthecircle.guildlaunch.com/). We have a Chancery established for discussions with other guilds when necessary.

Squaring the Circle,

Erian El'ranelen, Guardian of Gold

For any of our previous Ambassadorial contacts, I have been reaching out based on my previous list. If I miss you (or for new groups looking to talk with the Keepers) our site allows application as Ambassadors.

From the Multiclassing section of the PHB:

Note that there are a number of effects and prerequisites that rely on a character's level or Hit Dice. Such effects are always based on the total number of levels or Hit Dice a character possesses, not just those from one class. The exception to this is class abilities, most of which are based on the total number of class levels that a character possesses of that particular class.

Emphasis added. Unless a class ability states otherwise, it is based on class level rather than character level.

They are listed in the Fighter class entry:

Spears: javelin, lance, longspear, shortspear, spear, and trident.

This is actually a common Ranger approach from my experience--search on the Switch-Hitter Ranger and you'll find details on building one actually. A Ranger that's okay at both ranged and close combat is no problem at all, and can make RP sense too (e.g. a combat-trained special forces type). If that's his focus, you can have a lot of RP fun out of combat when he fumbles around at social interaction.

I'd second Hero Lab and the editor. I personally just buy all the modules because it's a time-saver for me. But if you just want some feats and such from a few supplements, adding them in the editor is pretty easy after you learn a few basics.

Easy enough. He's wrong. Spells available is determined by class level, not attribute.

Definitely go with ezPDF for Android. It's my default PDF browser on my tablet.

@Erian, I have been thinking more about your alignment balance mechanism. Suppose that all actions that had an impact on alignment made by a character were stored in a database and that the impacts of these actions were not all equal. The database could be queried to determine the mean of the impact values. That might generate an alignment coordinate on (+0.8, -0.2) which would be interpreted as heavenly lawful and slightly evil. Using @Aeioun's graphic plotting that alignment coordinate might look like this.

If there were only a few large impacts, or many small impacts, it would take many small or a few large counter impacts to shift the +0.8 value of lawful. Am I getting closer to your idea?

Yes, that would work as it keeps a record of the actual actions and thus the character may latter work to remove the actions entirely (rather than just trying to balance things out). I would like to see action interactions such that (for example) someone who tries to do a bunch of Good and and less, but consistent, Evil to stay Good also drives toward Chaotic. What I would consider "normal" is that Good people would do Good and Neutral actions generally, rather than try to game the system to stay mechanically Good while slipping in Evil from time to time.

Yes, while I'm not trying to get down into the weeds of alignment calculation, my favored approach does indeed separate out the Law/Chaos and Good/Evil calculations. I also agree both that repeated actions carry smaller and smaller weight and that approaching the end of either scale becomes progressively harder; perhaps not asymptotic however as, for example, a "Paladin 20" equivalent from merit badges might truly be the most Lawful and Good possible.

To give a more solid example of why the balance is my favored image vs. the slider* I would consider a fighter that is Lawful and Good. I'm not using Paladin because they have extra baggage/considerations...If that fighter were to kill an innocent person, whether by accident, mistaken identity, or whatever, such an action could impact both the Lawful and Good aspects of that character. He may go out and do much good, confess to the killing and accept lawful punishment, etc. Such actions would help to maintain his Lawful and Good status, but these things do not erase the fact that he killed an innocent. The only way to erase it entirely, to "lift the weight" so to speak of the action would be through some great atonement (again, whether spell or quest, etc.) that truly frees the character from the burden. If the mechanic is simply a process of adding and subtracting value from some total without retaining the "why" of the action, it loses some possible opportunities for RP and character development.

*Not to exclude the moral compass imagery--I do think that might be a very intuitive GUI element to give players more immediate feedback on alignment impacts of actions.

Are there specific portions of the balance system you don't understand? Both systems basically adjust around a central position. The primary difference is a balance system keeps track of the actions on either end while the slider adds/subtracts to give a single value.

4 more posts and they should lock this down... 1000 posts is enough to fully discuss anything, and really too large for that discussion to still be of value.

There have to be at least 5 good ideas in all of this to merit their own thread and focus our energies on them.

Yeah, this one was getting way to long for me to care. That's one reason I started the Alignment Mechanics thread (plus I didn't want the concept/question to get buried in here).

Harad, I'm unclear if you are saying you favor a slider versus a balance for alignment, or if that even plays into your post?

Neadenil Edam wrote:

Hark wrote:

We really need a link to the website in the first post so that people can easily go directly there.

True.

Meanwhile ...

New Members register here -->
http://www.keepersofthecircle.proboards.com/index.cgi

Actually, as an afterthough, it would really be good if guild members could add guild membership and a link to the guild in a sig to every post.

Is this currently available as a forum function?

While this is not a forum function at Paizo, you can add it to your Profile information. That way anyone clicking on your avatar can see the link. Mine, for instance, has the link in the Homepage URL field. I'll be updating it in a bit with links to our Chancery since Circle diplomatic efforts are a primary interest for me.

Yes, that's one mechanic I've seen used in games to great effect. It allows folks to have their background concept influence starting character values. I don't think it would be too much, i.e. you couldn't get Ultimate Lawful Good ratings (say, 100 for both on a scale of 100) starting out but could get Favors Lawful Good (say, 10 for both). The character still has a starting identity in-line with the player's desires, but also has something to work toward to be Ultimate Lawful Good Guy.

EDIT: Golarion has a lot of imagery that one could pull from for this: Varisian Harrow decks, Abadar's Balance, etc.

Concur--let me control what I share with groups.

Which hopefully a Disguise or Bluff feature would cover. It all depends on what the game mechanics allow, obviously. If always sharing info always happens with a group, then infiltration may not be an option.

I'm all for allowing players to select their starting position--my example of starting at Neutral above is just for the sake of simplicity.

EDIT: And with a Balance approach, this could even be a visual in character creation. The player gets a set of weights and two scales, then applies the weights to the scales that represent the character's past actions. A Neutral person would balance all scales, while LG would put everything in Law and Good (and could perhaps favor one over the other).

Maybe just being in party with a char with such knowledge can allow people to have temporary access to that information, as we can assume the player would share that info with his fellows during the combat, just as in PnP game.

Edit: That would actually be a good source of player interaction as people will like to have chars with such knowledge in their parties.

I'd actually set that as an on/off or some such--some characters might indeed choose not to share insight for whatever reason (say, a rogue that's conned his way into a group and is not actually trying to help them).

First off, this is not a thread about alignment philosophy, what is/is not Evil, etc. There's already a big thread for that...

I'm specifically interested in the actual game mechanics for tracking alignment actions.

Will these be on some sort of sliding scale, such that a character's slider starts (for example) at Neutral and slides back and forth on the axes of Good/Evil and Law/Chaos?

Will the mechanics be some sort of balanced scale, such that a character's balance starts (for example) at Neutral and acts add "weight" to Good/Evil and Law/Chaos sides?

I personally favor the latter, as I think it would afford more play opportunities while providing the same functionality as the slider. It means that Good and Evil acts have meaningful, lasting impacts on a character. It means that the character that kicks puppies all day one day doesn't erase that from ever mattering by planting flowers and trees the next day (and such a character might actually get more weight in the Chaos side from acting erratic).

For example, a Good fighter could be okay with having a few Evil items on his scale since he's got tons of Good. Mechanically the character still shows up as Good. But someone striving for a pure record (yes, I'm thinking of Paladins) would not want any Evil on the scale at all. Such a character would, when Evil acts occur, actually seek out some form of atonement whether it be from the spell of the same name, a quest, etc. This opens up options for play and I see that as a good thing.

Anyway, I'm interested in other folks' thoughts, any dev insight, etc. Do please try to keep to mechanics, as discussions on the "what is Evil" topic will just drag the original purpose of the thread into flaming ruin.

Absolutely, that's the system I'm hoping for. IF a character is to know general information about monsters/NPCs, that character needs to have the relevant skills. The character then has an advantage over characters without the skill(s) which, when combined with actual game play experience, allows the player to make informed estimations of encountered creatures.

I'd like to see judging relative strength as a combination of knowledge (skills) and experience. If I encounter some creature I've never seen before, and of which I have no knowledge, I won't expect any game mechanic to tell me whether I can beat it in a fight or not. That puts far more risk into engaging in combat, which is something I favor. Knowing that "green bar" enemies are easy kills, "yellow" are moderate, and "red" are tough for things I've never encountered is not appealing to me.

I concur with that--knowledge should cover general information about races (and perhaps common types within the race). It should not give specific information about an individual monster that is modified beyond his peers (well, unless perhaps there's some way to gain that lore).

On behalf of the Keepers of the Circle, I extend greetings. While our own Ring of Steel would likely provide similar services, there may perhaps be times when we could work together. Beyond that, the products and services offereb by our Rings of Crystal, Iron, and Wood may be of interest.

Please feel free to visit our Chancery if you have need to discuss trade, services, or any other matter.

Erian El'ranelen, Guardian of Gold

I'm definitely hoping diplomacy has some use, as I'm aiming to play a bard-like diplo-merchant! I definitely would like to see diplomacy playing a role in working with NPCs as a hex is claimed. Convincing the natives to stay/hhelp out rahter than driving them off would be great, and could be a goal for different archetypes (druid/ranger/bard probably being primary).

As for knowing about monsters, I hope that will be a function of knowledge-type skills. Bards, as aPnP example, have a greater advantage at knowing about diverse races and a carry-over to PFO would be nice. Rangers might know more about favored enemies as well.

I would also like to welcome MAGI on behalf of the Keepers of the Circle. The members of our Ring of Crystal would surely benefit from ties with such a magically-minded organization, while the goods and services provided by our Rings of Iron, Wood, Steel may be of interest.

Please feel free to visit our Chancery if you have need to discuss trade, services, or any other matter.

Erian El'ranelen, Guardian of Gold

Greetings Qyck Majere. I hope you will consider the Keepers of the Circle in your search for a home. In addition, should you reside elsewhere know that the Keepers welcome all peaceful interaction.

Erian El'ranelen, Warden of Gold, Keepers of the Circle

You're PM was the exact problem. I'm registered and applied now. Thanks!

I see two of my fellow Wardens have already visited, but I wanted to note specifically that the Keepers of the Circle have a group, called the Ring of Gold, focused on Diplomacy and Trade. After visiting, please feel free to ask any questions you might have.

Erian El'ranelen, Warden of Gold, Keepers of the Circle

Thanks for the consideration. Unfortunately, it looks like the site at present won't let me register (I receive a "You can't submit the form" message). I am able to see the general application forms. I can register that path if appropriate, or else wait for a fix. Let me know which you prefer.

Greetings from the Keepers of the Circle. While we are obviously in disagreement on moral issues for our members, I hope nonetheless that, when your company comes to fruition, we can resolve any differences through conversation rather than carnage. Should you wish to pursue diplomatic relations with the Keepers, please feel free to visit our Chancery at any time.

Erian El'ranelen, Warden of Gold

Greetings from the Keepers of the Circle. While we are obviously in disagreement on moral issues for our members, I hope nonetheless that we can resolve any differences through conversation rather than carnage. Should you wish to pursue diplomatic relations with the Keepers, please feel free to visit our Chancery at any time.

Erian El'ranelen, Warden of Gold

Greetings Harad Navar. Let me be the second to greet you (I must learn what arcane secrets Nihimon uses to always be the first diplomat to encounter others!). Know that the Keepers of the Circle are of a very similar mind to your tenents. As such, I hope that you will consider us in your plans for monastic communities along the Crusader Road. Should you wish to pursue diplomatic relations with the Keepers, please feel free to visit our Chancery at any time.

Erian El'ranelen, Warden of Gold

Greetings from the Keepers of the Circle. While we are not so focused on the arcane as the ever-present Nihimon's Seventh Veil, nor the members of MAGI, our group nonetheless has its own magical interested within our Ring of Crystal. Should you wish to pursue diplomatic relations with the Keepers, please feel free to visit our Chancery at any time.

Erian El'ranelen, Warden of Gold

As with the esteemed Nihimon, I welcome you to our community. The Keepers of the Circle, and specifically the Ring of Gold, are certain to have contracts, trade goods, and other services that will be of interest to the Platinum Blades. Please feel free to visit our Chancery at any time.

Erian El'ranelen, Warden of Gold

No problem at all. Come by and visit any time, we should have ample opportunity for discussions prior to launch.

What is all this posting you say? Why is this Erian fellow blabbering on about these Keepers? Well, my purpose is two-fold really...

Firstly, as a recently recognized Warden of Gold within our group, I am eager to establish dialogue with others. I fully realize discussions for many topics will have to wait for some time, but when need arises you now know how to contact us.

Secondly, with time ticking away on the Land Rush I truly want to ensure general players have the best opportunity to see available guilds and throw in support. So, anyone I could find on the first three pages got a bump! Obviously, I would personally hope for folks to join the Keepers, but I also know our group is not for everyone.

Ah, and of course for any groups I may have missed that wish to open up formal discussions with the Circle, our Chancery is now open (registration is necessary for posting.

Greetings Lictor. While the Keepers of the Circle have divergent beliefs in certain moral areas, your adherence to Law should ensure we can coexist without needless aggression and perhaps even benefit from one another's services. Please note that should the need arise our Keepers of the Circle Chancery is now open for any foreign envoys that might wish to parlay with us.

Erian El'ranelen, Warden of Gold, Keepers of the Circle

Greetings. It appears Mystical Awakening and the Keepers of the Circle have very similar interests and goals. As such, I'm certain we can find mutually beneficial efforts at times. Please note that should the need arise our Keepers of the Circle Chancery is now open for any foreign envoys that might wish to parlay with us.

Erian El'ranelen, Warden of Gold, Keepers of the Circle

Greetings. As with The Seventh Veil, the Keepers of the Circle have no specific requirement for Teamspeak, and further we have various interests that won't be specifically disadvantaged in this arena.

Please feel free to browse our forums or visit our Chartered Company thread here and ask any questions.

Erian El'ranelen, Warden of Gold, Keepers of the Circle

Greetings. Much of what you lay out as a desired play style is compatible with the Keepers of the Circle, and so I would offer our group up as an option as well. I will say, The Seventh Veil is very well organized and looks to offer much to its members in the arena of magic. Our group is more broadly focused (while having a division for magical interests) and also more skewed toward Good (specifically Neutral Good).

Please feel free to browse our forums or visit our Chartered Company thread here and ask any questions.

Erian El'ranelen, Warden of Gold, Keepers of the Circle

Done! And welcome, Ambassador Krow.

Greetings Andius. My fellow Warden of Gold, Hroderich Gottfrei, has already reached out to you I believe with regard to forming closer ties with the Keepers of the Circle. I wanted to further note that should the need arise our Keepers of the Circle Chancery is now open for any foreign envoys that might wish to parlay with us.

Erian El'ranelen, Warden of Gold, Keepers of the Circle

Greetings Mourn Blackhand. While the Keepers of the Circle do not necessarily support your views regarding non-elven races, we nevertheless respect your own right to hold such views. We would be happy to have our elven Keepers and Wardens interact with Taur-im-Duinath. Please note that should the need arise our Keepers of the Circle Chancery is now open for any foreign envoys that might wish to parlay with us.

Erian El'ranelen, Warden of Gold, Keepers of the Circle

Greetings Nostrus. I do hope your long silence is no indication that your company is no longer active. In the case that you are still active, it would appear that the Keepers of the Circle and the Balanced Scales may, at times, compete in various ways. However, we welcome such competition in the spirit of freedom. Please note that should the need arise our Keepers of the Circle Chancery is now open for any foreign envoys that might wish to parlay with us.

Erian El'ranelen, Warden of Gold, Keepers of the Circle